Trail Arm Move

[enormous13]

What’s everyone’s thoughts on this new video from Clay with TSG?
 

I’ve been playing around with a similar feel the last few months, along with an overall feeling of throwing the club down range with my trail hand, and wondered why I couldn’t find much info on something of this nature. I’ve been hitting the ball great recently (respectively for me), but can’t quite put a finger on what exactly it is that’s creating the solid striking. 

 

Just looking to dive into any similar info, so any other resources you all can share would be much appreciated!

[Zitlow]

The trail arm is a huge power source. The problem people have is adding a superfluous move to square up a club face that's on a plane 2 feet above the ball. He uses the motorcycle move an unnecessary manipulation if you know how to correctly wind your hands and arms in the backswing. 

[sonvolt22]

17 minutes ago, Zitlow said:

The trail arm is a huge power source. The problem people have is adding a superfluous move to square up a club face that's on a plane 2 feet above the ball. He uses the motorcycle move an unnecessary manipulation if you know how to correctly wind your hands and arms in the backswing. 

Can you kindly expound on "how to correctly wind your hands and arms in the backswing"? 

 

Perhaps some supporting video(s), if you know of any?

[enormous13]

30 minutes ago, Zitlow said:

The trail arm is a huge power source. The problem people have is adding a superfluous move to square up a club face that's on a plane 2 feet above the ball. He uses the motorcycle move an unnecessary manipulation if you know how to correctly wind your hands and arms in the backswing. 

 

10 minutes ago, sonvolt22 said:

Can you kindly expound on "how to correctly wind your hands and arms in the backswing"? 

 

Perhaps some supporting video(s), if you know of any?

Agreed - wouldn’t mind going down the rabbit hole here. 

[glk]

Todd’s a smart guy even though he is from Cleveland.

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CIRY1WoliAE/

https://www.instagram.com/p/B9upchvlBkK/

[Zitlow]

This won't resonate with people and that's okay. You need to learn how to engage your anatomy trains and they won't engage if you try to make your swing conform to the static plane established at address. Yeah I know it's pretty much standard for instructors to teach people to swing the club wide down the line. 

 

The golf swing is a dynamic motion so the plane must be dynamic as well. As you rotate your plane should rotate with you, if you want to maximize your potential. 

 

A good way to feel how anatomy trains work is to address an imaginary ball without a club and allow your hands and arms to hang down naturally. Now swing your right hand behind you. What happened? Now swing your right hand wide directly to your right, what happened? Not much. We are looking for depth not width., there is just as much circle behind you as in front of you. 

 

[Zitlow]

I wish I was smart enough to have thought of this myself but I'm not. I learned it from Mike Austin who was a kinesiologist and a pretty big hitter. 

 

He's using a rope in place of his left arm and hand to demonstrate that the swing is a throw with the right hand and arm. In his normal swing he used his left arm as the radius of his swing. As he swung back he was putting the shaft and club face on the same plane as his left arm (another discussion). He used his right hand and arm to engage his anatomy trains and facilitate the throw. 

 

[enormous13]

56 minutes ago, glk said:

Todd’s a smart guy even though he is from Cleveland.

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CIRY1WoliAE/

https://www.instagram.com/p/B9upchvlBkK/

Hadn’t heard of this guy - much appreciated! Both those videos are definitely on point. 

[enormous13]

13 minutes ago, Zitlow said:

I wish I was smart enough to have thought of this myself but I'm not. I learned it from Mike Austin who was a kinesiologist and a pretty big hitter. 

 

He's using a rope in place of his left arm and hand to demonstrate that the swing is a throw with the right hand and arm. In his normal swing he used his left arm as the radius of his swing. As he swung back he was putting the shaft and club face on the same plane as his left arm (another discussion). He used his right hand and arm to engage his anatomy trains and facilitate the throw. 

 

I’ve seen that Austin clip with the rope, that was definitely an ah-ha moment for me when I was getting into the whole right hand throw feel. I’m a former college athlete, so getting away from traditional teaching about static positions, and getting towards making an athletic movement where my body just responds has been the best thing I’ve done for my game. I still revert to the ball sometimes and get that hit impulse - but when I just let the ball get in the way of the swing, it’s such an improvement. 

[golfarb1]

Lots of good information and some deceptive information on this topic

1. Pronation(rolling)of the trail forearm so that palm faces more down and closes the clubface  is present in the swings of touring pros. Shallowing the shaft   
allows this supination to be involuntary  or basically automatic . This involuntary movement was demonstrated in the Como-Mackenzie demonstration a decade ago. 
2. Rotation of the ribcage after transition 9:00 going down) is a powerful move and is a body steepener. Doing so will also steepen the shaft or make it more vertical . So shallowing the shaft in the late backswing/ early transition ( which is an arm movement) can be thought of as an enabler for this later rib cage rotation . Without a shallow shaft some degree of pivot stall is probably inevitable. 

3.During transition,  the trail shoulder ADDUCTS ( moves the trail elbow closer to the body ) AND also externally rotates ( moves the trail elbow towards the target line), while the torso is rotating . This  EXTERNAL ROTATION of the TRAIL SHOULDER  is the key to shallowing the shaft . It is integral to NOT confuse this move with dipping the right shoulder towards the ground or just bringing the right elbow straight down. Some have described the correct shallowing move as “LOSING” an arm wresting contest with the trail elbow. 
4. The so called”motorcycle move “ , which flexes or flattens the lead wrist or extends or bends back the trail wrist is basically over by the top. The average touring does add a slight more extension of the trail wrist in early transition, but it is small compared to the total amount of extension. And touring pros actually lose much of this right wrist extension by impact , even though it is  still larger than it was at setup.

 

Edited September 14, 2021 by golfarb1

[Soloman1]

Trail elbow below the lead arm at impact is a pretty good single swing thought to try.

[Zitlow]

@enormous13 You're on the right track, the right arm if used correctly is a major force in the swing.

 

Since you posted the video of Clay demonstrating the right arm motion two other videos of the same right arm action by two different instructors were posted on another thread.

 

IMO golf instruction is just recycling the same thing over and over by different instructors until something new comes along and they recycle the new thing. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[enormous13]

8 hours ago, Zitlow said:

@enormous13 You're on the right track, the right arm if used correctly is a major force in the swing.

 

Since you posted the video of Clay demonstrating the right arm motion two other videos of the same right arm action by two different instructors were posted on another thread.

 

IMO golf instruction is just recycling the same thing over and over by different instructors until something new comes along and they recycle the new thing. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I’m finding like with almost anything else in life, its the same in golf instruction. What’s old is new, just repackaged. 

[enormous13]

Well, I’m starting to find some similar concepts, and this one was actually a good find. If the pros do it, it can’t be completely wrong. 
 

 

[Nard_S]

For me the best way to get to the feel of what JR is doing is firing the upper arms hard and early in the down swing. Steering the hands or applying the throw at the hands has not really worked. For me unfold by acceleration of upper arms down & closer together gets it done. Arm unfolds, hands are free to square because power is delegated. The tricky part is matching body to new found speed because it feels like "sequencing" is off when it's really not. Feels like you're going to stick the club into ground a foot behind ball. Having a trusty, reliable rotation is key. Stalling is not an option. So this cannot be done if you weld shoulder to head, or cannot get arm off chest, or if you are sloppy on hip pivot or don't get transition solid. If you hump the goat, you're toast. So this simple intent needs the blessing of many others. That's why it's so hard to ingratiate.

[Haroputt]

Good video.   Find Clay’s video helpful 

Feel the right arm power in the follow through much more than the left with the right elbow tucked in.  Seems like with the irons works really well.  Not so much with the woods 

[ferrispgm]

Some people are going to feel proper moves better with the right side and some better with the left....i don't think everyone should be pigeonholed into feeling it on one side or the other.  I think it's important people experiment with both and see what works best for them.  Heck depending on the move, I personally vary from left or right.