Should I get refit due to different swing path?

[Habitual Flipper]

Edit: Relatively new here, maybe this should have been posted to the Club techs section? Apologies if this is the wrong place for this topic. 

 

About three years ago, I was fitted for the first time into a set of 718 CBs shafted in PX 6.0s. Since that time I've continued to work on my swing and feel like I've made some good strides as far as technique goes. My swing path has gone from normally 0^o - 3^o outside-in to now being from the inside 2^o - 4^o with my 7i. Is this reason enough to go try out some new shafts/heads/lie angles? 

 

What really got me thinking about some new sticks was that I recently took out my old set of MP14s that are shafted is DG S300 and played great with them. I feel like my swing is much smoother now and I could feel the club head better with the MP14s. When I went back to my PX 6.0 CBs, it felt like I was swinging a telephone pole and found it difficult to maintain a smooth tempo. 

 

Finally, the last reason is that I think I was over clubbed with the CBs and think some more forgiveness would be nice. The past two seasons I've plateaued (have hovered between 3.5-5.0 handicap) and can't help but think some forgiveness might help me breakthrough. I did some strokes gained analysis this year with golf metrics and the numbers said I'm underperforming by a full stroke from 150-200 yards (compared to scratch). 

 

Would love to hear your thoughts... Not sure what I'm looking for here, maybe some just some echo chamber permission to go and get some new clubs? haha 

Edited September 28, 2021 by Habitual Flipper

[MattM97]

You clearly sound like you're second guessing your current setup and not very confident in them. If that's the case and you can afford new irons then do a fitting. 

 

Why play a club you're not happy with if you want to play well?

[dropkicked]

I would think that a change in technique would merit a "refit"... and who doesn't love new gear, especially if it's warranted. I'd say if you can afford it, do it..🙂

 

-Play well!

[jvincent]

13 minutes ago, Habitual Flipper said:

Edit: Relatively new here, maybe this should have been posted to the Club techs section? Apologies if this is the wrong place for this topic. 

 

What really got me thinking about some new sticks was that I recently took out my old set of MP14s that are shafted is DG S300 and played great with them. I feel like my swing is much smoother now and I could feel the club head better with the MP14s. When I went back to my PX 6.0 CBs, it felt like I was swinging a telephone pole and found it difficult to maintain a smooth tempo. 

 

 

This is the telling part.

 

Whether it's related to the path change or just a progression in your swing it sounds like the S300 are a better fit for you.

 

A simple change would be to swap the S300s into the 718s and see how they feel.

 

The path change might have affected your dynamic lie angle at impact but that's an easy thing to check. If it has, just get the lies adjusted as required.

[Habitual Flipper]

7 minutes ago, MattM97 said:

You clearly sound like you're second guessing your current setup and not very confident in them. If that's the case and you can afford new irons then do a fitting. 

 

Why play a club you're not happy with if you want to play well?

 

 

6 minutes ago, dropkicked said:

I would think that a change in technique would merit a "refit"... and who doesn't love new gear, especially if it's warranted. I'd say if you can afford it, do it..🙂

 

-Play well!

 

Yup, great points. I figure I could sell the 718s as well relatively easy that could minimize the expense. 

 

2 minutes ago, jvincent said:

 

This is the telling part.

 

Whether it's related to the path change or just a progression in your swing it sounds like the S300 are a better fit for you.

 

A simple change would be to swap the S300s into the 718s and see how they feel.

 

The path change might have affected your dynamic lie angle at impact but that's an easy thing to check. If it has, just get the lies adjusted as required.

 

That's a good idea (re: reshafting). I've never done it myself, could be something to fiddle with over the winter season. 

[MattM97]

6 minutes ago, Habitual Flipper said:

 

 

 

Yup, great points. I figure I could sell the 718s as well relatively easy that could minimize the expense. 

 

 

That's a good idea (re: reshafting). I've never done it myself, could be something to fiddle with over the winter season. 

 

Just make sure you're happy with the new clubs before selling the current ones. Too many guys making posts with regrets. 

[Habitual Flipper]

Welp, was able to squeeze in a booking with a fitter tomorrow evening, let's go let's go!

[Kmagnuss]

Good luck!

Are you going in open-minded or do you have your sights set on a few different clubs to try?

[Pepperturbo]

On 9/28/2021 at 9:42 AM, Habitual Flipper said:

Edit: Relatively new here, maybe this should have been posted to the Club techs section? Apologies if this is the wrong place for this topic. 

 

About three years ago, I was fitted for the first time into a set of 718 CBs shafted in PX 6.0s. Since that time I've continued to work on my swing and feel like I've made some good strides as far as technique goes. My swing path has gone from normally 0^o - 3^o outside-in to now being from the inside 2^o - 4^o with my 7i. Is this reason enough to go try out some new shafts/heads/lie angles? 

 

What really got me thinking about some new sticks was that I recently took out my old set of MP14s that are shafted is DG S300 and played great with them. I feel like my swing is much smoother now and I could feel the club head better with the MP14s. When I went back to my PX 6.0 CBs, it felt like I was swinging a telephone pole and found it difficult to maintain a smooth tempo. 

 

Finally, the last reason is that I think I was over clubbed with the CBs and think some more forgiveness would be nice. The past two seasons I've plateaued (have hovered between 3.5-5.0 handicap) and can't help but think some forgiveness might help me breakthrough. I did some strokes gained analysis this year with golf metrics and the numbers said I'm underperforming by a full stroke from 150-200 yards (compared to scratch). 

 

Would love to hear your thoughts... Not sure what I'm looking for here, maybe some just some echo chamber permission to go and get some new clubs? haha 

Interesting... I have a similar game and have hit 718 CBs and played 716 CBs with PX 6.0 shafts for quite some time.  PX 6.0 are my all-time favorite shafts.  Anyway, DG S300 shafts are 130g, PX 6.0 120g, big difference.  Both heads are forged, so if you're suddenly feeling PX as telephone polls, maybe your swing has changed and the softer handle of S300 shaft plus added weight fits your swing better, now.  But let's not forget, how much proper swing weight influences our mechanics. 

 

I suggest checking out the specs and sw of both sets, and see how they compare.  Shaft weight, bend profile and sw can be factors.  I went from 120g to 95g to 105g, to 110g. to current 125g composite, and swing weight is D2. 

 

Then there is always this = some people just want new clubs. 🙂

 

Edited October 1, 2021 by Pepperturbo

[Habitual Flipper]

20 minutes ago, Kmagnuss said:

Good luck!

Are you going in open-minded or do you have your sights set on a few different clubs to try?

 

Pretty open minded to be honest. I've normally gamed Titleist exclusively but am willing to try anything that helps, especially that 150-200 yard range. I will say, I'm curious about the I210s if the they are still offering them. I had left my 716 AP1s for my current 718 CBs, thinking I needed players irons. My ego has tempered over the years and I'm willing to step into anything that will get me closer to scratch. I see some great golfers on these boards playing GIs/SGIs, so if they help me, I'm not opposed!

[Habitual Flipper]

52 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

Interesting... I have a similar game and have hit 718 CBs and played 716 CBs with PX 6.0 shafts or quite sometime.  PX 6.0 are my all-time favorite shafts.  Anyway, DG S300 shafts are 130g, PX 6.0 120g, big difference.  Both heads are forged, so if you're suddenly feeling PX as telephone polls, maybe your swing has changed and the softer handle of S300 shaft plus added weight fits your swing better, now.  But let's not forget, how much proper swing weight influences our mechanics. 

 

I suggest checking out the specs and sw of both sets, and see how they compare.  Shaft weight, bend profile and sw can be factors.  I went from 120g to 95g to 105g, to 110g. to current 125g, and swing weight is D2. 

 

Then there is always this = some people just want new clubs. 🙂

 

 

Good call on the swingweights, I'll have the fitter check tomorrow. One thing I noticed after a few rounds with the MP14s is that I was striking the center much more reliably (small data sample, but still noticed it). My miss the with the CBs is a toe strike, so much so that I actually have an "8" pattern forming on some faces (it's very faint but one area in the center, the other near the toe). 

 

Did you find your impact location change much with your experience of the different shaft combos? 

 

Edit:  Looks like the MP14s are 1.5^o flatter than my 718 CBs, even though my CBs are already 1^o flatter than stock. The MP14s also a .25" shorter. Really curious what the swingweight will be. 

Edited September 28, 2021 by Habitual Flipper

[Pepperturbo]

6 minutes ago, Habitual Flipper said:

 

Good call on the swingweights, I'll have the fitter check tomorrow. One thing I noticed after a few rounds with the MP14s is that I was striking the center much more reliably (small data sample, but still noticed it). My miss the with the CBs is a toe strike, so much so that I actually have an "8" pattern forming on some faces (it's very faint but one area in the center, the other near the toe). 

 

Did you find your impact location change much with your experience of the different shaft combos? 

Not so much.  I tried to insure swing weights of each set were similar.  When I got into lighter weight steel or graphite shafts, they tended from the get go to not work well with my tempo.  Difference was MMT 125s mid-high bend profile, shaft weight and swing weigh.  I even put them in my wedges. 

 

With forged head quality today, it takes a massive amount of repetition for a wear pattern to develop, so that wasn't noticed as much as how weight and swing weight affected my tempo.  I am a true feel player with a fast tempo and transition, seldom reach the top of my back swing, plus my hands accelerate through the ball before impact. 

 

Time away from old favorite irons tends to bring back fond memories.  I am not surprised you were striking the ball better with MP14s, they are fine blades.  Guessing, going from 718 CBs to MP14's and different shafts has you on your toes, mechanics wise. 🙂   Once a person plays blades and hits the ball well, they can affect us in surprising ways. 

 

If I am playing 620 CB set, and strike the ball with the toe it's the result of me lifting a tad from the waist up as I go into the ball, trying to get more out of a shot.  With the CBs that mistake doesn't cost me that much down range.  However, if I try that with my 620 MBs it costs me a lot more.  For that reason, I focus on proper mechanics and won't do that. 

 

 

[Howard_Jones]

3 hours ago, Habitual Flipper said:

 

Good call on the swingweights, I'll have the fitter check tomorrow. One thing I noticed after a few rounds with the MP14s is that I was striking the center much more reliably (small data sample, but still noticed it). My miss the with the CBs is a toe strike, so much so that I actually have an "8" pattern forming on some faces (it's very faint but one area in the center, the other near the toe). 

 

Did you find your impact location change much with your experience of the different shaft combos? 

 

Edit:  Looks like the MP14s are 1.5^o flatter than my 718 CBs, even though my CBs are already 1^o flatter than stock. The MP14s also a .25" shorter. Really curious what the swingweight will be. 

Here is my take on this.

Total weight "pulls" the club down and out...and before you swap shafts, you now have the opportunity to isolate both total wgt, shaft wgt, and head weight.

Take your favorite "S300" club and get its total wgt in grams.
Now pick the same head/club # from the PX set, and find the difference.
(ideal is the same grip and head wgt, and the only difference should the the shaft.)

When we compare shaft wgt, we talk about it as "uncut wgt", hardly ever as net cut wgt, but Project X and Dynamic Gold comes in different lengths, where PX is 0.5" longer uncut = 0.5" more butt cut to play length. A PX 6.0 #9 is 120 grams / 37.50" = 3.2 grams pr inch, or 1.6 grams extra weight loss.

PX 6.0 compared to DG S300 should be compared like PX 6.0 is 118.5 grams, vs DG S300 as 130 grams, so the difference is 11.5 grams and thats a lot...IF grips and head is "identical" on both sets, this is the area of expected total wgt difference.

Grip weight always vary, and more than many is aware of with plus minus 3.5 grams, so when we compare total wgt, be aware of this factor if your numbers looks "wrong". 

To give your PX 6.0 the same feel of shaft weight (to isolate shaft wgt), we find the approximate middle of the shaft and set a mark there. (most shafts has its BP very close to the center)

Now take 11.5 grams of lead tape, and distribute it head to grip direction on the underside of the shaft so you dont see it from address. The middle of the lead tape at the middle of the shaft.

You should instantly feel and see a difference to impact, who should move from toe against the center. A gram or 3 extra on the heads should be tried to.

For Lie angles, simply use the sharpie test /ball marker method on each club.

Edited September 28, 2021 by Howard_Jones

[Habitual Flipper]

1 hour ago, Howard_Jones said:

Here is my take on this.

Total weight "pulls" the club down and out...and before you swap shafts, you now have the opportunity to isolate both total wgt, shaft wgt, and head weight.

Take your favorite "S300" club and get its total wgt in grams.
Now pick the same head/club # from the PX set, and find the difference.
(ideal is the same grip and head wgt, and the only difference should the the shaft.)

When we compare shaft wgt, we talk about it as "uncut wgt", hardly ever as net cut wgt, but Project X and Dynamic Gold comes in different lengths, where PX is 0.5" longer uncut = 0.5" more butt cut to play length. A PX 6.0 #9 is 120 grams / 37.50" = 3.2 grams pr inch, or 1.6 grams extra weight loss.

PX 6.0 compared to DG S300 should be compared like PX 6.0 is 118.5 grams, vs DG S300 as 130 grams, so the difference is 11.5 grams and thats a lot...IF grips and head is "identical" on both sets, this is the area of expected total wgt difference.

Grip weight always vary, and more than many is aware of with plus minus 3.5 grams, so when we compare total wgt, be aware of this factor if your numbers looks "wrong". 

To give your PX 6.0 the same feel of shaft weight (to isolate shaft wgt), we find the approximate middle of the shaft and set a mark there. (most shafts has its BP very close to the center)

Now take 11.5 grams of lead tape, and distribute it head to grip direction on the underside of the shaft so you dont see it from address. The middle of the lead tape at the middle of the shaft.

You should instantly feel and see a difference to impact, who should move from toe against the center. A gram or 3 extra on the heads should be tried to.

For Lie angle

So just threw the six irons on the scale, and the MP14 is 15 grams heavier. There is a bit more grip tape under the MP14 but otherwise, the grips are the same. 

 

I'll definitely try as you suggested and add the lead tape to the shaft and head.

 

 

Edited September 29, 2021 by Habitual Flipper

[Howard_Jones]

2 hours ago, Habitual Flipper said:

So just threw the six irons on the scale, and the MP14 is 15 grams heavier. There is a bit more grip tape under the MP14 but otherwise, the grips are the same. 

 

I'll definitely try as you suggested and add the lead tape to the shaft and head.

 

 

The GOLF Build up tape i used, added 0.015 for each layer (4 to MID & 8 to Jumbo)
That Tape added 2 grams for each layer of 10 inch, but again, the grips themselves has tolerances, and up in this end, it dont matter a lot if it vary a little, while in the other end it matters way more.

So when you have added "shaft wgt", and tried of higher head weight, remove the added shaft weight, and try off with added head wgt only. This will help you to isolate shaft vs head wgt, and dial in whats the optimum for you.

Maybe the DG profile is better for you? (you will know after this test.)
If the long end of DG feels to heavy, but the short end right, look for DG AMT in the future.