Reducing Driver Launch Angle

[Mainegrw]

Hello all, new member here, looking forward to being part of such a comprehensive knowledgebase. Thanks for letting me join!

 

That said, let me preface this by saying I'm not a great golfer by any stretch, but I am on a quest to get better. 

 

Currently, I am playing a 9.0 degree Callaway Mavrik Max paired with a 55 gram Aldila Rogue Elite 788 (orange) regular flex shaft that plays at about 45.5". I really like the Mavrik Max, I tried out quite a few drivers this year, and the Mavrik Max, with it's forgiveness and natural draw bias suits me best. With most drivers, I tend to fade or slice badly, with my only recourse to overcorrect in my aim at the tee. The Mavrik Max, even set with a neutral draw bias at the hosel, produces very nice consistent straight hits for me. 

 

My challenge at present is Launch Angle. As it's the winter here at home in the Northeast US, I am limited to practice at indoor virtual ranges and the one or two outdoor heated places. All the above have launch monitors which I've been paying more attention to lately in a quest to improve my game and hit the ball further. What I am seeing consistently on the launch monitors is a launch angle of 20 or more degrees, which for me is producing high lobbing shots that drop around 175 to 190 yards with very little roll. I am looking to get that angle down between 12 and 16 degrees which I am hoping would give me additional distance I desire (would love to be consistently driving out to 200 yards). I have tried adjusting the loft down to 8.0 degrees at the hosel, but that makes little or no difference. 

 

The question is, where do I go from here? Do I try out a stiffer shaft? Thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[taylorx300]

AoA ( angle of attack ) is the needed info to find out why your launch is what it is. The higher up on the face of a driver for impact increases launch. Do you often hit the top of the crown of the driver?

[Billfitz]

Try teeing the ball lower, by maybe 1/4 inch.

[Jeff58]

11 hours ago, Mainegrw said:

The question is, where do I go from here? Do I try out a stiffer shaft? Thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Optimally, you go to a quality instructor who can diagnose and help correct your issue(s). There are a variety of potential causes for grossly high driver launch, and we can’t see you. Forming a relationship with a good instructor is the real key to advancement, not throwing money at the equipment roulette wheel.

With a launch angle that high, it’s not directly shaft related anyway. You could use rebar and it wouldn’t correct it. Note that there is a video forum here under Instruction. You can video your setup and swing, then people will give feedback.

 

[Stuart_G]

17 hours ago, Mainegrw said:

The question is, where do I go from here? Do I try out a stiffer shaft? Thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

14 hours ago, taylorx300 said:

The higher up on the face of a driver for impact increases launch. Do you often hit the top of the crown of the driver?

 

This - face impact location is the first thing you need to check.   It's probably not the only problem with a launch angle that high but it is the best place to start.   Use foot powder spray to check on the impact location and consistency.    Lowering the impact location will be one possible way to reduce the launch angle.  As someone else mentioned, tee height can sometimes be a quick way to help with that.

 

The other problem has to do with delivering too much dynamic loft at impact.  This really means that the hands are too far behind the ball at impact.   Some might call it a "flip" but it's really not always a release timing issue.   Too many possible causes for that - but most are swing problems, not equipment problems.   Might try addressing the ball further back in your stance (as well as lower) as a quick fix.

 

Now that being said, playing length, shaft weight, and swing weight can frequently have some influence on the release timing and the dynamic loft delivered.  Unfortunately there is no reliable general rule on what to do.   Maybe heavier swing weight might be something worth playing around with (lead tape on the head) to try and slow down the release.  Of course all those things can have a wide range of other possible consequences (both good and bad) that might effect the ball flight and results.  But it couldn't hurt to take some time and work through Howard's DIY tuning tutorial and see what happens.  There is nothing there that can't be undone if it doesn't work.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 20, 2022 by Stuart_G

[Mainegrw]

Thanks for the advice guys, much appreciated. I did some empirical research last night and arrived at similar conclusions.

 

Yes, I impact on the shaft head does vary a bit from shot to shot, with more than a few impacting higher on the face. Dropping down the tee height did help a bit with this, however no matter where the face contacts the ball, I still see fairly consistent high launch angles, so while helping a bit, there definitely more going on.

 

My research also included a visit to one of the local golf retailers who allowed me to put my driver head on a stiffer and heavier shaft, in this case a 70 gram 6.5 stiffness Project X HZRDUS Smoke Black, to see if that made any difference whatsoever. Whereas this was definitely too stiff a shaft for me, it's what was hanging around the shop already setup with a Callaway adapter, and the goal of this test was to see if changing the shaft would make any difference in launch angle, and it really did not. I saw instead a 10 yard average reduction in distance, and slower swing speeds. I think I can cross this off the list now as a possibility for now. 

 

In full disclosure though, I really don't know what to believe from the in store launch monitor. I had a logged average of 160 to 170 yards with the stiff shaft, peppered in with the odd 190 to 210 yard drive, though the modelled ball flight in the simulation showed the drop point around the same place as the shorter drives. The stated launch angles did not correspond either, with some of the shorter drives showing lower launch angles down around 17 degrees, and the few errant longer drives with high launch angles in the 20s. Not sure how much I can trust that data. The true test probably would have been back at the outdoor range I was at the other night with the camera based ball flight tracking. 

 

That leaves my stance and setup as a possible culprit. I tend to play the ball either directly off my left foot or just inside. Perhaps I need to place the the ball a little further back than that. Going to give that a try. 

 

Thanks again, your advice is all greatly appreciated. 

 

[EricMatt]

Given that a very low launch shaft didn't solve the issue, and your description of constantly fighting a slice and weak distance along with high launch, I'm going to guess that you're flipping the club head at the ball, meaning your hands are well behind the ball at impact.

 

This would result in a really high dynamic loft and/or positive attack angle and makes for an inconsistent ball flight (having to time the hands, etc).

 

This is a swing issue that's pretty difficult to fix with equipment.  Obviously, you can try to crank down the loft to 8 or even swap the head and go all the way down to 6.5 degrees or something with a tour head, but that doesn't necessarily work on the fundamental issue, which is probably casting and flipping in the swing.

Edited January 26, 2022 by EricMatt

[lekimann]

I agree that it is flipping the club. Why don't you take a slow mo video from face on to see if you are flipping the club. 

[Stuart_G]

14 hours ago, lekimann said:

I agree that it is flipping the club. Why don't you take a slow mo video from face on to see if you are flipping the club. 

 

Doesn't need slow-mo video.   Whether or not he's flipping doesn't matter, at least not directly.   If he is, he's doing it because he has to in order to make contact.  It's a consequence of a problem and not the actual problem itself.   If it is a swing problem, one has to look much earlier in the swing for the root cause.  But for that any normal video will do fine.    Usually one more often needs the help of an instructor.  It's much harder to find the root cause of a problem - and therefore understand the best fix than it is to see the consequences of the swing problem.

 

[Billfitz]

I was in a rut a few years back, so more or less in desperation I took a video of myself hitting balls into my backyard net. When I watched it I saw at least three fundamental swig flaws that I was totally unaware I was doing. The next day on the course I was pretty much back to normal, because it didn't take any work to correct those flaws, I just needed to be aware of them. Now each spring after doing some backyard practice but before hitting the course I take a video to be sure that I'm not falling back into bad habits. If I've got the swing fundamentals right I usually play well, if I don't have the fundamentals right I never play well. I can't always tell if I'm out of whack when playing, but when I do it on video it's painfully obvious.

[lekimann]

2 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Doesn't need slow-mo video.   Whether or not he's flipping doesn't matter, at least not directly.   If he is, he's doing it because he has to in order to make contact.  It's a consequence of a problem and not the actual problem itself.   If it is a swing problem, one has to look much earlier in the swing for the root cause.  But for that any normal video will do fine.    Usually one more often needs the help of an instructor.  It's much harder to find the root cause of a problem - and therefore understand the best fix than it is to see the consequences of the swing problem.

 

I agree

[lekimann]

1 hour ago, Billfitz said:

I was in a rut a few years back, so more or less in desperation I took a video of myself hitting balls into my backyard net. When I watched it I saw at least three fundamental swig flaws that I was totally unaware I was doing. The next day on the course I was pretty much back to normal, because it didn't take any work to correct those flaws, I just needed to be aware of them. Now each spring after doing some backyard practice but before hitting the course I take a video to be sure that I'm not falling back into bad habits. If I've got the swing fundamentals right I usually play well, if I don't have the fundamentals right I never play well. I can't always tell if I'm out of whack when playing, but when I do it on video it's painfully obvious.

You can try to make a list of swing thoughts or checks and make it into an acronym. Then go over the acronym in your head before you swing or during practice before a round. 

[Mainegrw]

Back again with some more thoughts: Technique is definitely a major factor, I had some time this afternoon (during a snow squall actually, lol) to get out on the outdoor driving range and hit some balls. Dropping down the tee height has lowered the launch angle a bunch, and just working on setup and follow through have helped as well. Today according the the ball flight tracker, I was averaging over 195 yards and up to 205 yards, with what felt like less effort than I normally impart with the driver. Certainly made me feel good. 

 

I do believe that hitting the archery range a couple times a week, for a few hours is definitely helping as well. Drawing and holding steady a 35lb draw recurve bow for 2 hours straight is a pretty good workout I guess. As I said above, I felt like I was getting more today with less effort put in. Didn't feel like I needed to really swing out of my shoes to get out there, and I think my side hobby is playing a part in that. 

 

Lastly, fortune shined on me the other day, and I couldn't help myself. Wandering through the golf section of my local Dick's Sporting Goods (ironically, I had popped in there to look at some archery products which they didn't have), I happened upon a bunch of errant shafts sitting on a rack on the back wall. Among them were a Evenflow Riptide 6.0 60g, and an Aldila Rogue White 130 MSI 60S, both setup with Callaway adapters and Tour Velvet Grips. Price: $25 each. I couldnt pass them up and bought both. I asked why they were so cheap and the manager said they had somebody sneak in an open loading dock door and take the heads off a bunch of clubs that were secured by their shafts in a rack. Since they no longer had the club heads, they just sold off the shafts at what they considered a fair price.

 

Today, I spent the majority of my range time with the Rogue White, and I'm much happier with how I hit the with it. Maybe it's the little extra weight, 60 grams vs 45 or 50 of the Rogue Elite Orange, maybe the Elite Orange was just a little too soft, idk. This is going to stay as my driver setup for a while I think. 

 

Edited February 20, 2022 by Mainegrw

[95124hacker]

$25 each? Man, that manager should be fired. Congrats on the steal. The adapters alone were worth $15.

[Mainegrw]

41 minutes ago, 95124hacker said:

$25 each? Man, that manager should be fired. Congrats on the steal. The adapters alone were worth $15.

Yes $25 each. In Full disclosure, they were off Demo clubs, the Evenflow Riptide came off a Mavrik Max, the Rogue White came off a Mavrik or Epic Sub Zero, I can't recall exactly what the sticker said. The Evenflow did have a little more signs of use, the Rogue White was nearly mint. Both are fitted with Callaway branded Tour Velvet Align  grips that are stamped "Demo" on the end. Not sure how much they were hit, guessing the Evenflow probably a bit more than the Rogue White. 

 

Don't worry though, they've been put to good use.