Seemore vs LAB

[SeeMore Putters]

On 4/4/2024 at 6:38 AM, SAM_PGA said:

I can attest to the SeeMore MiniGiant Deep Flange.  First SeeMore I’ve used in 24 years w/ The Original!  

 

Feel is great, forgiveness is great, alighnment is spot-on.  The new Mini giant HTX is something to look at too with a new “modern” mallet look.  

 

Mini Giant Deep Fange

 

Mini Giant HTX

Awesome!  new Mini Giants are going strong.  Appreciate the support.  Reach out any time at [email protected]. RifleScope Technology (RST) "Hiding the Red Dot" not only helps you aim but so many other factors as well.  Thanks again for being a SeeMorean!

[toddyc]

On 2/9/2022 at 9:17 PM, labgolf said:

If I may....

Lots to unpack here. First, I love the SeeMore company. Their CEO is a true gentleman and their reps are great guys and EXTREMELY well informed about putting in general. I think their tech is legit and I think many people would benefit from giving them a look. I love the range of putters they make from a quality standpoint in that there are ceap ones and spendy ones, a SeeMore for everyone! HOWEVER, "face balanced at impact" is just not a thing. Below is a link to a youtube video where you can see for yourself. Because of the shaft location, its not going to fight you as much as a lot of other putters but it is a full toe hang putter. Period. The demo they do with the tee and all that is not a pure test at all. You could do that with almost any putter. Plenty of friction when holding a tee. Again, love the guys and their expertise but eliminating or reducing torque is not their jam. I saw the video referenced in the original comment here and I found it pretty stunning that the were claiming to be the same. Especially considering there was a revealer in the background of the video!!

Regarding weather or not torque matters (it does...big time) as some have questioned in this thread I would ask to try and think of it backwards. Lets say that lie angle balanced putters were the standard and then one day some comes out with a putter claiming "this putter that twists is better than the ones that stay square by themselves!!" ...that'd be a pretty tough sell. Sure, there is no putter that is universally better for all. Our issue about where we need to shaft them is a barrier for some but more and more the "I can't do center shafted" crowd are taking the plunge and getting used to it REALLY quick.

Regarding why more pros aren't using our tech or similar tech, pros are ALWAYS the last to utilize new technology. they are creatures of habit. But slowly, more and more of our putters are making it out on tour and more and more coaches are accepting that AT WORST, lie angle balancing is a legit option and at best, its just better.

 

That seemore stays square on its own at address. Pretty sure that’s what face balanced at impact is

[labgolf]

2 hours ago, toddyc said:

That seemore stays square on its own at address. Pretty sure that’s what face balanced at impact is

We've got plenty of video's online made by folks who don't work for us that show it acts like any other putter.

[vandyfan]

I had an FGP and then a DF 2.1. Quick thoughts:

 

LAB took more "getting used to" as it is quite different setting up and the feel through the stroke.
FGP was fine but I would frequently lose confidence with it.

 

I sold my FGP and hadn't really thought about it until this thread. Now that I think about it, I feel very good about selling it. Didn't not seem to help, putting wise, anymore than a Ping Anser. But the LAB, for me, has moved me into a positive strokes gained putter. 

[5hort5tuff]

I don't think it is really worth comparing the two. They are different putters. Seemore is a company that has its own tech...with the face balanced at impact and RST...they have their newer models with increased MOI.  They don't have their fingerprints all over social media advertising their putters, so it is a completely different operation really.  Extremely underrated.  They are also very affordable.  They have the best Customer service and free custom options in the business. Their putters can be bent for lie and adjusted for weight with specific specs. Oh...and they feel great...especially the milled higher end models.

 

LAB has their own technology and business model. Many people love their putters and will continue to adopt them. 

Edited April 9 by 5hort5tuff

[SwingMan]

I've owned about six Seemore Putters since 1999. Most of them were purchased from 2008-11. I still have a FGP for practice. I like the RST. They were/are a bit light in the head. I do not like the Giant Heads but different strokes. The FGP and FGP Mallet are my favorites.

 

As to LAB, I bought and used an original DF and used it for 3 yrs. Put a BGT shaft in it and then gave it to someone. Still, I putted well with it. Haven't putted consistently well since that time.

 

The original DF had excellent feel off the ball. I did not mind the ungainly shape, and you could use the two "holes" in back to place two balls in it to check your tempo.

 

It was a little too light in the head for me on long putts.

 

The NEW models, which include improvements to the DF2.1, are heavier, have a heavy head option, more grips, more shafts, and custom heads. Like what they're doing here.

 

I took delivery of a custom DF3 about 3 weeks ago and I enjoy the distance control and accuracy. I reviewed ball position and after a week I let go of trying to control the putter and just relax.

 

NOW I DO BELIEVE that a LAB putter works best when you DO NOT use your hands or wrists to manipulate or move the putter. I use my shoulder blades to move the putter with elbows on the side of the ribcage. Less movement  but not being stiff works for me. Hope this helps.

Edited April 10 by SwingMan

[WillyE]

Love my MFGP Nashville studio putter. The RST, balance, and feel are awesome.  It’s been in my bag for a number of years.   I wouldn’t trade it for anything out there. 
 

[Masterhacker]

I put with a Seemore Nashville series right now but I was recently on a golf trip in Mrytle Beach and putted some with a Lab at the pga superstore.  It was very odd to look down over but it seemed to roll the ball amazingly.  It's been in my mind ever since I putted with it.  

[golferdude54]

On 2/9/2022 at 7:17 PM, labgolf said:

 

 

 

This is what confuses me, you show a video of the revealer showing that SeeMore twists open and closed during the stroke. Meanwhile, there's this video from SeeMore of the exact same revealer process and it doesn't twist. 

 

 

And also this video where Sam tests 2 SeeMore models, one that's the face balanced at impact and the other being a non-face balanced at impact. Funny how he lifts the DF2.1 and Link above the ground to show it being square but didn't do the same for the SeeMore FGP, and he pretty much gives it a rushed stroke that's nowhere near normal putting tempo.

 

 

[SAM_PGA]

Not all models in the SeeMore lineup will be Lie Balance as compared to all of the LAB putters, which are.  I believe SeeMore’s original design, the FGP, which are blade like will be as close to lie balanced as they’ll get.  My Mini Giant Flange is about 40º toe hang but in playing position fees extremely stable and barely moves.  It’s one of the most solid putters I’ve used in some time and LOVE LOVE LOVE the simple RST alignment for consistent setup routine.  

[labgolf]

On 4/29/2024 at 2:01 AM, golferdude54 said:

 

This is what confuses me, you show a video of the revealer showing that SeeMore twists open and closed during the stroke. Meanwhile, there's this video from SeeMore of the exact same revealer process and it doesn't twist. 

 

 

And also this video where Sam tests 2 SeeMore models, one that's the face balanced at impact and the other being a non-face balanced at impact. Funny how he lifts the DF2.1 and Link above the ground to show it being square but didn't do the same for the SeeMore FGP, and he pretty much gives it a rushed stroke that's nowhere near normal putting tempo.

 

 

The reason I don't lift it is because if I do, it just flops open and gets stuck on the ground. Same reason for the faster stroke. I assure, I am not playing games, I promise. The video from seemore is the one that is deceiving you. The guy in that video no longer works for SeeMore and told me directly they screwed with that revealer for the demo.

[golferdude54]

13 hours ago, labgolf said:

The reason I don't lift it is because if I do, it just flops open and gets stuck on the ground. Same reason for the faster stroke. I assure, I am not playing games, I promise. The video from seemore is the one that is deceiving you. The guy in that video no longer works for SeeMore and told me directly they screwed with that revealer for the demo.

 

I know you just said you weren't playing games but I had to post this LOL sorry for the earlier insinuation! I hope both putter companies thrive.

 

 

[nosil]

21 hours ago, labgolf said:

The reason I don't lift it is because if I do, it just flops open and gets stuck on the ground. Same reason for the faster stroke. I assure, I am not playing games, I promise. The video from seemore is the one that is deceiving you. The guy in that video no longer works for SeeMore and told me directly they screwed with that revealer for the demo.

@SeeMore Putters.  Would be interested in hearing your position on this.  Did you manipulate the revealer in the posted video and essentially provide misleading information? 

[5hort5tuff]

I still can't figure out how it is okay to for one business to come on here and put down another person's putters and videos, calling them liars etc etc. 

I haven't seen a video yet where Seemore says that LAB golf is bad or critiquing their videos and marketing.   I don't see how seemore using the revealer right or wrong has any impact on LAB. 

 

now...if there is evidence of Seemore is saying their Tech is the same as LAB...well that is a different issue imo.

Edited May 1 by 5hort5tuff

[Ragamonster]

LAB tech is great and they obviously make great putters but talking bad about another putter company is a bad look IMO and not the right way to gain buy-in.
 

The guys over at Seemore are the nicest in the business. 

[labgolf]

8 hours ago, 5hort5tuff said:

I still can't figure out how it is okay to for one business to come on here and put down another person's putters and videos, calling them liars etc etc. 

I haven't seen a video yet where Seemore says that LAB golf is bad or critiquing their videos and marketing.   I don't see how seemore using the revealer right or wrong has any impact on LAB. 

 

now...if there is evidence of Seemore is saying their Tech is the same as LAB...well that is a different issue imo.

Did you watch his video? They are clearly claiming theirs does what ours does and it doesn't. I'm not bashing them but if someone lied about you, wouldn't you want to set the record straight? And of course it has an impact on us. We've worked really hard to promote and sell some pretty profound tech and SeeMore is trying to capitalize on our tech under false pretenses. If they have a putter that balances, I've never seen it and I have searched high and low. If I'm wrong, I am happy to eat crow on this. But their video was a direct attempt to minimize what what have accomplished, calling out the tech by name and using our device to make the claim. Seems more than reasonable we'd respond, no? And for the record (the above video not withstanding) I love the seemore guys. They are one of the very few companies out there ACTUALLY trying to help folks putt better rather than just selling for selling sake.

[labgolf]

27 minutes ago, Ragamonster said:

LAB tech is great and they obviously make great putters but talking bad about another putter company is a bad look IMO and not the right way to gain buy-in.
 

The guys over at Seemore are the nicest in the business. 

I mean its not like I am talking crap for fun or to be cruel. They made a false claim, compared their tech to ours, called out our tech by name and used our device to make the claim. That wouldn't rub you the wrong way? And I agree, everyone at SeeMore that I know is great. I have mad respect for them as engineers and true innovators. They are rare in that they actually want to help golfers. But this video was a a stunning move by them.

[nosil]

6 hours ago, labgolf said:

Did you watch his video? They are clearly claiming theirs does what ours does and it doesn't. I'm not bashing them but if someone lied about you, wouldn't you want to set the record straight? And of course it has an impact on us. We've worked really hard to promote and sell some pretty profound tech and SeeMore is trying to capitalize on our tech under false pretenses. If they have a putter that balances, I've never seen it and I have searched high and low. If I'm wrong, I am happy to eat crow on this. But their video was a direct attempt to minimize what what have accomplished, calling out the tech by name and using our device to make the claim. Seems more than reasonable we'd respond, no? And for the record (the above video not withstanding) I love the seemore guys. They are one of the very few companies out there ACTUALLY trying to help folks putt better rather than just selling for selling sake.

 

this 100%.  @SeeMore Putters is making a claim and that claim was challenged as being false and that the video was not representing facts.  As a consumer I just want to know if the presented claim is factual or if the was some manipulation/modification to the device to present something that doesn’t really occur.   
 

Seemore makes great putters as does LAB.  I personally prefer the Seemore becuase I like torque and putt better with my Seemore than I did with LAB putters.  But if a company is falsely making claims it does make me question owning their products.  We as consumers deserve to know the verifiable facts.  
 

 

[SAM_PGA]

I think LAB and SeeMore both bring great tech to the forefront as do many other companies.  With that said…

 

IMHO there is a major flaw with demonstrations from LAB using the revealer.  Of course when a LAB putter is used in the device and using a very quick tempo back and through stroke, LAB will be SUPERIOR.  That’s what it is designed to do and immediately show other designs of face balance, toe hang, etc. Cannot compete with LAB’s technology. 

 

A putter doesn’t have to be perfectly lie balance because we don’t place our hands on a putter the way a revealer secures a putter for a balance demonstration.  My grip pressure isn’t “holding a baby bird” and it isn’t “turning my knuckles white”.  Would love to see some demonstrations that represent REAL WORLD use… maybe a revealer that you can change the rotational/torque tension applied force to the putter AND showing tempo strokes from 3’, 6’, 9’, 12’ and so on.  I’d guess to say that many putters on the market other than LAB continue to hold a square to the path face angle based on length of the stroke and grip pressure.  

[SAM_PGA]

5 minutes ago, nosil said:

 

this 100%.  @SeeMore Putters is making a claim and that claim was challenged as being false and that the video was not representing facts.  As a consumer I just want to know if the presented claim is factual or if the was some manipulation/modification to the device to present something that doesn’t really occur.   
 

Seemore makes great putters as does LAB.  I personally prefer the Seemore becuase I like torque and putt better with my Seemore than I did with LAB putters.  But if a company is falsely making claims it does make me question owning their products.  We as consumers deserve to know the verifiable facts.  
 

 

So let me get this correct… if you putt better with a SeeMore/make more putts and post better scores than when using a LAB, you would ditch the SeeMore simply because of “false claims”?  Not going to say how idiotic that sounds…

[nosil]

2 hours ago, SAM_PGA said:

So let me get this correct… if you putt better with a SeeMore/make more putts and post better scores than when using a LAB, you would ditch the SeeMore simply because of “false claims”?  Not going to say how idiotic that sounds…

I putt with lots of putters because I like putters and I don’t use one exclusively.   Who’s to say I don’t have putters that are better than the Seemore?   People use or don’t use products for a variety of reasons and what is idiotic to you may have a deep personal meaning to someone else.  I am sure I could come up with examples of product that you use that you would stop using because off false claims.   

[AndersonGT]

Yesterday I putted with LAB DF3 and DF2.1 for the very first time to see what all the hype was about. I left 2nd Swing absolutely dumbfounded. That DF 3 was better than any putter I have ever touched. I still can't believe the difference between my gamer and the DF3. SeeMore's were not even close but probably should have been comparing the SeeMore the Lab Link. The only putter that was semi close (not even that really) was an EVNRoll EV5.1 Short Slant. Lab DF3 would save me at least 3 strokes a round if not more. 

 

Here is my issue however, and it is going to drive me nuts. I don't have $600 to spend. If @labgolf wants to give me a 50% GolfWRX discount on a DF3, I'll happily purchase one ASAP and sell my gamer, haha. 

[labgolf]

3 hours ago, SAM_PGA said:

I think LAB and SeeMore both bring great tech to the forefront as do many other companies.  With that said…

 

IMHO there is a major flaw with demonstrations from LAB using the revealer.  Of course when a LAB putter is used in the device and using a very quick tempo back and through stroke, LAB will be SUPERIOR.  That’s what it is designed to do and immediately show other designs of face balance, toe hang, etc. Cannot compete with LAB’s technology. 

 

A putter doesn’t have to be perfectly lie balance because we don’t place our hands on a putter the way a revealer secures a putter for a balance demonstration.  My grip pressure isn’t “holding a baby bird” and it isn’t “turning my knuckles white”.  Would love to see some demonstrations that represent REAL WORLD use… maybe a revealer that you can change the rotational/torque tension applied force to the putter AND showing tempo strokes from 3’, 6’, 9’, 12’ and so on.  I’d guess to say that many putters on the market other than LAB continue to hold a square to the path face angle based on length of the stroke and grip pressure.  

Do you feel any difference between the way an anser style putter feels versus a face balanced 2-ball? Personally I find them to feel very different in motion. The difference in them is the torque profile. One opens in the takeaway and the other closes. And they do so at different rates and different amounts of force. Of course we CAN manipulate the torque in the head. We've seen extraordinary successes on the greens with torquing putters. But our thesis is that its a lot easier to square the face when these forces and torques are not at play. Screw the revealer. I agree that it has some flaws and isn't a perfect demonstration. Its helpful in letting folks understand what we do without going down a physics rabbit hole. So the revealer and its imperfections aside, we feel removing the variable all together makes putting just a little easier. Have you tried one?

[SwingBlues]

2 hours ago, labgolf said:

Do you feel any difference between the way an anser style putter feels versus a face balanced 2-ball? Personally I find them to feel very different in motion. The difference in them is the torque profile. One opens in the takeaway and the other closes. And they do so at different rates and different amounts of force. Of course we CAN manipulate the torque in the head. We've seen extraordinary successes on the greens with torquing putters. But our thesis is that its a lot easier to square the face when these forces and torques are not at play. Screw the revealer. I agree that it has some flaws and isn't a perfect demonstration. Its helpful in letting folks understand what we do without going down a physics rabbit hole. So the revealer and its imperfections aside, we feel removing the variable all together makes putting just a little easier. Have you tried one?

 

I'd like to try the Revealer but can't buy one since you guys DO NOT SELL it retail. I had a chance to buy one when BillP had the company but missed out (me bad). For fun, might have to build my own using crutches 😂

 

...but I digress. Well said though labgolf, revealer is the simplest and visually demonstrate is a putter is lie angle balanced or not or if it's weakly balanced.

 

 

[Ari]

LAB is so much better. Having tested them, I got my order in for the DF3 2 days ago. It was crazy expensive but I think its definitely worth it based on results.

 

Now if only they were able to customize the face pattern the way I wanted it would be perfect 🙂

[SAM_PGA]

6 hours ago, nosil said:

I putt with lots of putters because I like putters and I don’t use one exclusively.   Who’s to say I don’t have putters that are better than the Seemore?   People use or don’t use products for a variety of reasons and what is idiotic to you may have a deep personal meaning to someone else.  I am sure I could come up with examples of product that you use that you would stop using because off false claims.   

I was going off of your statement comparing the SeeMore to the LAB putter.  Didn't read into it much beside what you typed.  I've never stopped using something because of false claims, golf or otherwise.  I stop using "products" because they don't work for me or no longer obtain my desire results.  

[SAM_PGA]

4 hours ago, labgolf said:

Do you feel any difference between the way an anser style putter feels versus a face balanced 2-ball? Personally I find them to feel very different in motion. The difference in them is the torque profile. One opens in the takeaway and the other closes. And they do so at different rates and different amounts of force. Of course we CAN manipulate the torque in the head. We've seen extraordinary successes on the greens with torquing putters. But our thesis is that its a lot easier to square the face when these forces and torques are not at play. Screw the revealer. I agree that it has some flaws and isn't a perfect demonstration. Its helpful in letting folks understand what we do without going down a physics rabbit hole. So the revealer and its imperfections aside, we feel removing the variable all together makes putting just a little easier. Have you tried one?

I have tried the LINK putter and that would be the one I would prefer over the others.  Feel wise and visually, it is more similar to what I'm accustomed to.  But I'm not going to drop $500+ or even a PUD price when I get everything else at no charge.  

Edited May 2 by SAM_PGA

[brian25]

I hate to see LAB and Seemore fighting as they both make great putters.  

 

I have tested many putters in a revealer and the Seemore OneSS and M7x are the 2 best that I have seen.  They faces stay pretty damn square!  Not 100 percent perfect but as close as I've ever seen.

 

The only problem with the Seemores is that it only balances like this on the blades.  Mallets will not balance.

[Ivyguy]

15 hours ago, labgolf said:

Do you feel any difference between the way an anser style putter feels versus a face balanced 2-ball? Personally I find them to feel very different in motion. The difference in them is the torque profile. One opens in the takeaway and the other closes. And they do so at different rates and different amounts of force. Of course we CAN manipulate the torque in the head. We've seen extraordinary successes on the greens with torquing putters. But our thesis is that its a lot easier to square the face when these forces and torques are not at play. Screw the revealer. I agree that it has some flaws and isn't a perfect demonstration. Its helpful in letting folks understand what we do without going down a physics rabbit hole. So the revealer and its imperfections aside, we feel removing the variable all together makes putting just a little easier. Have you tried one?

So really quick, I don’t know who YOU are posting for a manufacturer. 
 

LAB putters are the rage right now… Love the engineering and may be as pronounced as the Anser.  
 

But, this game SUCKS.  Particularly putting. 
 

Everyone strikes a putt differently and is inherently contracted to do so by other factors. 
 

Love where y’all are coming from (innovative ideas in a part of the game that is built in re-“copying” other designs. 
 

SeeMore and LAB engineering ideals are similar but different. 
 

Leave it at that, most will agree that they both make high quality sticks. Which will work for you when you’ve been doubled down on a $5 dollar a whole bet?

 

That’s up to the player.  
 

Devices that prove things to be real/false are irrelevant.  
 

They’re both great, what works best for the player?

 

 

Theres a reason there is a butt load of putter manufactured every year with crazy claims. 
 

Pick your stick and I hope you all win many beers from your friends this year. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

But, call a call afterward… Don’t drink and drive… PSA, and “Now you know”

[coops]

Both are great - and good to see Seemore still going strong and independent.

 

I have a Seemore FGP (the old, old brass/bronze one), a Giant (not the mini) - and I also have a DF2.1.

 

My putting sucks so bad, i'm switching to broom... and would have gone for the DF3 but it's not out in broom just yet.

 

I'd also love a broomstick Seemore mini Giant (with stealth RST) as I know that squared off shape suits my eye and aim so well, and have tried a regulsr mini Giant in store and the feel is good too. Swap out those copper weights in the Seemore for tungsten to get head weight up, drill shaft hole at 79.5 degrees et voila - he says over simplifying matters... but i suspect it would be both marvellous and popular 😳

 

(Meanwhile, i've ordered a Bell V at 43" to give broomstick putting a go)