Spinner shafts for wedges by Howard Jones - The #8 iron spinner trick

[Ben Pop]

1 hour ago, Ben Pop said:

I am very confused by the charts so just gonna ask the question for my situation as I’d like to have lower flighted wedges. I currently have Tour issued S400 shafts in my irons and wedge flex in my wedges (52 and 58). So to get this right, I should be buying X100 8i for my 52 and X100 PW for my 58? @Howard_Jones

Or would I be fine to just run 2 X100 8i shafts butt cut down to wedge length in both? I take full shots with both wedges. 

[Howard_Jones]

4 hours ago, Ben Pop said:

I am very confused by the charts so just gonna ask the question for my situation as I’d like to have lower flighted wedges. I currently have Tour issued S400 shafts in my irons and wedge flex in my wedges (52 and 58). So to get this right, I should be buying X100 8i for my 52 and X100 PW for my 58? @Howard_Jones

YES

 

 

3 hours ago, Ben Pop said:

Or would I be fine to just run 2 X100 8i shafts butt cut down to wedge length in both? I take full shots with both wedges. 

 

We are still talking X100 #8 iron shafts, so its no "or"....

[Jim53]

Hello Howard,

I am using PX IO shafts in 6.00 flex in my irons and gap, am I reading the 1st page correct that since there is only 6.5 available in the IO model I can tip trim the 6.5 PW shaft 3/8" for use in the SW and LW?

Even though I have read the 1st page 7 times at least I still get a bit lost in the details and want to do it correctly as these shafts are a bit pricey for steel shafts.

 

EDIT;

I like the gap to match the other irons in feel that is why I did not so the 8 iron shaft trick for that club. 

Edited May 15, 2023 by Jim53

[Howard_Jones]

12 hours ago, Jim53 said:

Hello Howard,

I am using PX IO shafts in 6.00 flex in my irons and gap, am I reading the 1st page correct that since there is only 6.5 available in the IO model I can tip trim the 6.5 PW shaft 3/8" for use in the SW and LW?

Even though I have read the 1st page 7 times at least I still get a bit lost in the details and want to do it correctly as these shafts are a bit pricey for steel shafts.

 

EDIT;

I like the gap to match the other irons in feel that is why I did not so the 8 iron shaft trick for that club. 

PX is a "half flex model" where we find a PW option, so 6.0 Irons = 6.5 PW as "8 iron spinner"
Then norm is to use that shaft for GW, SW and LW
Some do tune it even stronger for SW, and tip trim that 6.5 PW with 3/8", others dont.

[Jim53]

Howard, thank you for the answers. Since I already had bought the 6.0 PW shaft for the GW, would there be any benefit to tip it 3/8?

 

Or is the difference too small to notice by an amateur?

[Howard_Jones]

6 hours ago, Jim53 said:

Howard, thank you for the answers. Since I already had bought the 6.0 PW shaft for the GW, would there be any benefit to tip it 3/8?

 

Or is the difference too small to notice by an amateur?

Its in the small details the difference is, so just tip trim.

[ComptonTerry]

@Howard_Jones Hey Howard. So I think I'm going to build 3 wedges for myself using the method you have described and will report back.  I currently play the DG X100 in my irons and wedges so will be doing the DG X7 8iron shaft in my 50,54,and 60. 

 

My question is this. Even though i play X100s in all my irons and wedges I swing fairly easy in order to properly flight the golf ball low with high spin (i consider myself a very competent wedge player). Given I always take 80% swings with my short irons and wedges do you think this method would work given I don't take aggressive swings from ~140yds and in.  I was thinking I may not be creating enough clubhead speed with my wedge swings to properly load the DG X7 thus creating minimal benefit between a DG X100 and DG X7 shaft in my wedges. So in this case would the DG X100 and X7 be reacting virtually the same at impact?  What are your thoughts on this

 

Thank you very much for your time. 

 

-ComptonTerry

Edited May 18, 2023 by ComptonTerry
Needed to add a sentence

[Howard_Jones]

3 hours ago, ComptonTerry said:

@Howard_Jones Hey Howard. So I think I'm going to build 3 wedges for myself using the method you have described and will report back.  I currently play the DG X100 in my irons and wedges so will be doing the DG X7 8iron shaft in my 50,54,and 60. 

 

My question is this. Even though i play X100s in all my irons and wedges I swing fairly easy in order to properly flight the golf ball low with high spin (i consider myself a very competent wedge player). Given I always take 80% swings with my short irons and wedges do you think this method would work given I don't take aggressive swings from ~140yds and in.  I was thinking I may not be creating enough clubhead speed with my wedge swings to properly load the DG X7 thus creating minimal benefit between a DG X100 and DG X7 shaft in my wedges. So in this case would the DG X100 and X7 be reacting virtually the same at impact?  What are your thoughts on this

 

Thank you very much for your time. 

 

-ComptonTerry

A DG X7 #8 iron shaft, is equal to a DG X100 GW shaft, so we are not going a full flex stronger, its only the labels that is.

DG X100 #9 vs X7 #8 will NOT play the same, thats what this all about

Old School thinking was - "Wedge shafts dont bend much anyway, so it does not matter", that thinking is FAR OUT and WRONG, and Wedge shafts is actually where we can see the largest difference to launch and spin, its not even close to that in irons. so what we was told, was wrong.

When players struggles with ball flight or spin in irons, i always reply with BEND LOFTS, since shafts hardly do anything, and is very player related, for wedges i would suggest using the shaft since thats where we really see a difference depending on shaft choice

[ComptonTerry]

On 4/20/2023 at 11:12 AM, Howard_Jones said:

Again, go get ball flight down and spin up, we should have flex progression (stiffer club by club), all the way to the last club we play to full swing. If thats the GW, then we go X7 #8, and use the same shaft for SW and LW. They will be soft stepped, but since we dont load and release them as hard as full swing clubs, its no reason to "overdo it", but if we wanted to stretch it to the max, we could use X7 #9 for SW, and a #9 tip trimmed 3/8" for LW, but they will most likely feel "stiff" and not how wedge shafts should feel, so we are trying to balance it all out here, and get the best from both worlds by being "moderate" and not go to far. By using the #8 iron spinner trick, we get shaft thats FEELS natural and like our irons, but if we go too strong (on partial clubs), they will feel "dead" and rigid, and im not so sure we gain much spin to speak of either, since shafts played to partials dont bend much in the first place.

 

Nice. Well we are going to give her a try and report back. Thanks again!

[Mark38]

Here is my update after 21 rounds with these shafts.  Phenomenal.  Game changing.  The check the gap wedge creates on low shots into the green never fails to garner unsolicited comments of awe. Every round.  These shafts turned my wedges into weapons.

[Howard_Jones]

4 hours ago, Mark38 said:

Here is my update after 21 rounds with these shafts.  Phenomenal.  Game changing.  The check the gap wedge creates on low shots into the green never fails to garner unsolicited comments of awe. Every round.  These shafts turned my wedges into weapons.

Thats what every player should expect when they go this way, and it will make you wonder why shaft advice for wedges has been, and still is like it its, (softer), since they will not be able to deliver what you get here, and we all know that the short game is where we loose or win this game.

There is 2 other DIY posts for equipment you might not be aware of, the DIY driver tune up, and in the same tread, Putter balance tune up. Take a peak into those too, so you can improve tee shots and your putting stats on the same time.

Putter tune up is in the same tread as post #9
 

 

[Jim53]

Howard, thanks for the tip to tip the PX IO 6.0 wedge shaft 3/8" it felt great today and the spin was very good. I saw no ill effects on distance and quite possibly more control on full and taking a bit off it. 

I look forward to using the 6.5 PX IO PW shaft in the 54 & 58 wedges. 

[LowAndLeft32]

Does anyone know if any tour pros are using the 8 iron spinner trick? 

[shot-savior]

On 5/25/2023 at 9:03 PM, LowAndLeft32 said:

Does anyone know if any tour pros are using the 8 iron spinner trick? 

In a 2nd Swing WITB, Rocco Mediate said he's using an 8-iron shaft in his 56* (his highest lofted wedge), so he can "find the bottom" (paraphrased).  I think he said he uses S400 to his GW, then X100 8-iron in SW (less than full swing).  If so, then he's seemingly more concerned with "softness" than 'proper' flex progression.  So, not the "spinner trick" as Howard details, but...

 

Until recently I played X100 in 4 through highest lofted wedge, and never properly flighted my wedges.  I've been in the game for 45+ years but never understood I was soft-stepping my wedges 1 (PW) to 4 (LW) times.  I simply did what everyone else was doing, because I thought that was the proper way.

 

 

[FirePro]

1 hour ago, shot-savior said:

In a 2nd Swing WITB, Rocco Mediate said he's using an 8-iron shaft in his 56* (his highest lofted wedge), so he can "find the bottom" (paraphrased).  I think he said he uses S400 to his GW, then X100 8-iron in SW (less than full swing).  If so, then he's seemingly more concerned with "softness" than 'proper' flex progression.  So, not the "spinner trick" as Howard details, but...

 

Until recently I played X100 in 4 through highest lofted wedge, and never properly flighted my wedges.  I've been in the game for 45+ years but never understood I was soft-stepping my wedges 1 (PW) to 4 (LW) times.  I simply did what everyone else was doing, because I thought that was the proper way.

 

 

Last I saw he was using X100 mid throughout.  But if he was using S400 in the 52* and X100 8i in the 56* then this would be exactly the spinner trick Howard is referring too.  The only thing would be that the 56* shaft would play lighter in weight than the S400 by 2g plus what ever the additional weight lost due to the additional 0.5" being butt cut.

 

if messed around with the Sensicore insert to bring weight back up before in the wedges

Edited June 1, 2023 by FirePro

[shot-savior]

On 6/1/2023 at 9:49 AM, FirePro said:

Last I saw he was using X100 mid throughout.  But if he was using S400 in the 52* and X100 8i in the 56* then this would be exactly the spinner trick Howard is referring too.  The only thing would be that the 56* shaft would play lighter in weight than the S400 by 2g plus what ever the additional weight lost due to the additional 0.5" being butt cut.

 

if messed around with the Sensicore insert to bring weight back up before in the wedges

Yes, you are correct.

[ComptonTerry]

@Howard_Jones

 

Hey Howard.  I have built my 3 wedges using this method and have one more thing to test before I give my detailed feedback. One more question for you related this topic. Currently my PW is a 64 degree lie angle so I started with building my 50, 54, and 60 all with the same 64 degree lie angle.  In doing research for this I noticed that many people , including tour pros, advocate for a flatter lie angle in their wedges especially with half and 3 quarter swing shots given there is less "shaft droop" when your not swinging full (which i rarely do with any wedge). Where do you stand on this topic of wedge vs short iron lie angle as it seems playing a flatter lie angle in the wedges would make a lot of sense given the physics of how spinner shaft wedge setup works.  Thoughts?

 

For context I am thinking of moving all 3 wedges 1 degree flat to 63 degrees.  And so far so good with this new wedge setup but much more detail to come.   

[Howard_Jones]

2 hours ago, ComptonTerry said:

@Howard_Jones

 

Hey Howard.  I have built my 3 wedges using this method and have one more thing to test before I give my detailed feedback. One more question for you related this topic. Currently my PW is a 64 degree lie angle so I started with building my 50, 54, and 60 all with the same 64 degree lie angle.  In doing research for this I noticed that many people , including tour pros, advocate for a flatter lie angle in their wedges especially with half and 3 quarter swing shots given there is less "shaft droop" when your not swinging full (which i rarely do with any wedge). Where do you stand on this topic of wedge vs short iron lie angle as it seems playing a flatter lie angle in the wedges would make a lot of sense given the physics of how spinner shaft wedge setup works.  Thoughts?

 

For context I am thinking of moving all 3 wedges 1 degree flat to 63 degrees.  And so far so good with this new wedge setup but much more detail to come.   

 

Wedges? - Go 1* Flat like you are thinking here
Both due to less toe drop, but also to prevent pulls to the left thats often a mis hit with wedges
 

[Jim53]

Installed the 6.5 PX IO shafts into the 54 & 58 wedges, looking forward to trying them in the morning. These shafts SW very easy, with no tip weights they came out at D4 & D5 just perfect.

[Jim53]

Well not much to add with today's round, played on rock hard, punched greens and could not stop anything from any distance. Even little chips that would normally check were just running out. 

 

It was certainly not the shafts, no one could hold a green and putting was next to impossible. 

[GopherX]

On 4/19/2023 at 2:09 AM, Howard_Jones said:

I dont think you can order this from any OEMs, thats not the type of jobs they do, so you will either have to find a cústom club maker, or do the job yourself, like ordering the clubs without grips out on, and over length (above target) equal to planned tip trim, so when you get them home, have the shafts pulled, the heads reamed shaft tip trimmed and installed.

And its just like your wrote yourself above, no matter who does the job

9i = PW Shaft (hard stepped 1x)

PW = PW shaft, tip trimmed 5/8in, hosel reamed (hard stepped 1x)

GW = PW shaft, tip trimmed 1.25in, hosel reamed (hard stepped 1x)

SW = PW shaft, tip trimmed 1.25in, hosel reamed (relative soft stepped 1x vs irons)

LW = PW shaft, tip trimmed 1.25in, hosel reamed (relative soft stepped 2x v irons)

So thats 5 x 130  PW shafts, one strait in as #9 iron shaft, the others tip trimmed.

 
Hello Howard, 

 

I too have played KBS for quite a while with FST Tour 120g Black Nickel shafts with some Miz MP29’s.  I have been wanting to reshaft with KBS 120g Tour Black Matte Hardstepped +1 (HS1) however I saw some MP221’s for sale here on gwrx with some KBS Tour FLT 130g shafts 1” over and I jumped on them.  That said, I rebuilt them at 3/8” spec from the PW (36 2/8”) and, after 2 months, I’ve come to the determination that although I get a little less dispersion, I also am left without that “Zing” feeling after hitting a descent shot!  They are too heavy!

 

Therefore, if I were to hard-step (HS1) some KBS 120g Tour Black Matte ( which don’t come with the PW, only 2 X 9i shaft), I’m not sure I what I ideally should do with the PW?
 

Since HS1 would mean that both 9i shafts that as “Standard” would normally be used in the #9 & PW; HS1 shifts the one to be used for the PW is now to be used for the #9, and the other 9i would be used in the #8 club to create HS1.  So to create the HS1 #9, if I cut off 3/8” tip = +1/3 Flex, then to get a flex of HS1 (=+ 1/3 flex) in the PW could I use a 3rd 120g 9i shaft and remove 1 X 3/8 to bring 9i to “standard PW flex” and another 3/8 Tip Trim to attain HS1 (Requires Reaming?)
 

Considering I’m 1/2” over and 1 degree upright and a raw 9i comes in at 37.5”, if the playing length of my PW is at 36 2/8”, then after the 6/8” tip trim would leave 1/2” trim off the Butt (+ the 5/32 additionally taking into account the grip Crown).  
 

For the rest of the wedges, should I attempt (I hold you harmless!) to use a 125g PW from either the $Taper, FLT (I’ll have a full set of these to choose from in 130g!) or V Line to put in the GW, SW and LW realizing doing so would create a “normal GW in relation to the 9-3iron” yet descending weight and increased “Soft Stepping” due to the increase in Head weights in SW & LW? As for shooting for HS1, I’m guessing it would be more important to try to get it there for the GW and NOT as important, indeed not desirable for my SW & LW!

 

Or since your “8 Spinner” technique usually would yield (IIRC.) HS +0.4 in the GW and SS -0.2 in the LW etc. in “straight in-standard irons”, is it crazy to consider using the 130g 7i to create HS1 PW, in my case?   Since so much of the shaft “weight” would be cut away anyway (as compared to the current weight I feel in the PW with the 130g PW shaft), I wonder what this would work out to?  And since I will be using the 50 degree GW full swing, would it be correct to use in the 130g 8i in the GW, 130 9i in SW  and LW (SS?) going this route?
 

When hitting the FLT 130, of all the clubs, I definitely could manage hitting the PW the best, but I have a feeling the 125 would be more comfortable, but cutting the 130g 7,8,9 down to a PW, GW, SW & LW almost certainly would feel lighter than what I experience now!    
 

 

 

Edited June 18, 2023 by GopherX

[Howard_Jones]

14 hours ago, GopherX said:

 
Hello Howard, 

 

I too have played KBS for quite a while with FST Tour 120g Black Nickel shafts with some Miz MP29’s.  I have been wanting to reshaft with KBS 120g Tour Black Matte Hardstepped +1 (HS1) however I saw some MP221’s for sale here on gwrx with some KBS Tour FLT 130g shafts 1” over and I jumped on them.  That said, I rebuilt them at 3/8” spec from the PW (36 2/8”) and, after 2 months, I’ve come to the determination that although I get a little less dispersion, I also am left without that “Zing” feeling after hitting a descent shot!  They are too heavy!

 

Therefore, if I were to hard-step (HS1) some KBS 120g Tour Black Matte ( which don’t come with the PW, only 2 X 9i shaft), I’m not sure I what I ideally should do with the PW?
 

 

Tip trim the shaft used for PW, or use a #9 from "half a flex" stronger (125 grams) if that option excist.

 

14 hours ago, GopherX said:

 
Since HS1 would mean that both 9i shafts that as “Standard” would normally be used in the #9 & PW; HS1 shifts the one to be used for the PW is now to be used for the #9, and the other 9i would be used in the #8 club to create HS1.  So to create the HS1 #9, if I cut off 3/8” tip = +1/3 Flex, then to get a flex of HS1 (=+ 1/3 flex) in the PW could I use a 3rd 120g 9i shaft and remove 1 X 3/8 to bring 9i to “standard PW flex” and another 3/8 Tip Trim to attain HS1 (Requires Reaming?)
 

 

More than 3/8" tip trim often means a ream job is needed, scroll back here, its a video of it and its very easy

 

Edited June 19, 2023 by Howard_Jones

[Howard_Jones]

14 hours ago, GopherX said:

 
Considering I’m 1/2” over and 1 degree upright and a raw 9i comes in at 37.5”, if the playing length of my PW is at 36 2/8”, then after the 6/8” tip trim would leave 1/2” trim off the Butt (+ the 5/32 additionally taking into account the grip Crown).  
 

 

Sum cut down from uncut will be 2.25 to 2.5 (you have forgot BBGM thats most likely 1.25")

 

 

14 hours ago, GopherX said:

 

For the rest of the wedges, should I attempt (I hold you harmless!) to use a 125g PW from either the $Taper, FLT (I’ll have a full set of these to choose from in 130g!) or V Line to put in the GW, SW and LW realizing doing so would create a “normal GW in relation to the 9-3iron” yet descending weight and increased “Soft Stepping” due to the increase in Head weights in SW & LW? As for shooting for HS1, I’m guessing it would be more important to try to get it there for the GW and NOT as important, indeed not desirable for my SW & LW!

 

If you want to MIX shaft models, DONT ask about it in this tread, thats OFF TOPIC and way to complicated to answer.
Thats one of the benefits with the #8 iron spinner, we KNOW what we get

 

 

14 hours ago, GopherX said:

 

 

Or since your “8 Spinner” technique usually would yield (IIRC.) HS +0.4 in the GW and SS -0.2 in the LW etc. in “straight in-standard irons”, is it crazy to consider using the 130g 7i to create HS1 PW, in my case?   Since so much of the shaft “weight” would be cut away anyway (as compared to the current weight I feel in the PW with the 130g PW shaft), I wonder what this would work out to?  And since I will be using the 50 degree GW full swing, would it be correct to use in the 130g 8i in the GW, 130 9i in SW  and LW (SS?) going this route?
 

If the 120 grams in irons is S-HS1, then a 130 grams X #8 will fit the slot of a 120-S PW, then a #9 for the GW
(X flex #8 plays like a S-flex GW "strait in", so you need 1 shaft stronger to get HS1 flex all the way to GW)
 

Edited June 19, 2023 by Howard_Jones

[Erad213]

Great info for my future builds! Thanks!

[GopherX]

Oops, I forgot about the #9 shaft (of which there are 2 in the set for 9&PW) that would remain in the 9i, as it was “passed from the PW to 9i, it is still a #9 (straight-in) shaft to the 9i, Not HS1.  So can I infer that the 125g #8 could feasibly go into the 9i to create HS1 and the 125g #9 going into the (HS1)PW, a 130g #9 into the (HS1)GW, then (SS?)SW & (SS?)LW?
 

Thanks a ton for your help!

Edited July 6, 2023 by GopherX

[st1800e]

Update, for graphite slow swingers.  After months of poring over this topic trying 5 different shaft types.....

 

Reshafted my Ping i20's with Kuro Kage 2nd Gen shafts.  Used the 8 iron spinner trick on my 50* and 54* U and SW. KK 70 gm Stiff trimmed to 8 iron and KK Reg 70 gm regular in PW down. After a few games I discovered that I hit the U and SW, better than the other irons. So I did the same KK stiff soft stepped, trimmed to match the flex slope of the U and SW. 

Result? hitting them all great. My conclusion is the the soft stepping of a stiffer shaft produced a more solid contact and better feel. Now I dont know the exact difference in profile, if any between the stiff and regular, but it works.  

Slightly off topic Howard, but I thinks it's relevant.  

[noblesin]

Hello,

 

So I am trying to do this trick on my Cleveland RTX6 Wedges that I just got. The wedges I have are 50 (10°), 56 (10°) and 60 (10°). My Irons are Callaway Apex 21 with Aerotech Steelfiber 115cw F4 (Stiff) Flex Shafts. So, If I have this correct, I could buy the Aerotech Steelfiber 115cw F5 (X-Stiff) Shafts for 8i, 9i and PW. And then use the 8i shaft for my 50, 9i shaft for my 56 and PW shaft for my 60. Is there any length modification required to the shafts to fit them into the wedges or do I just buy the shafts as-is and have them installed in my wedges as-is? Thanks for any feedback!

Edited June 22, 2023 by noblesin
adding bounce

[Howard_Jones]

9 hours ago, noblesin said:

Hello,

 

So I am trying to do this trick on my Cleveland RTX6 Wedges that I just got. The wedges I have are 50 (10°), 56 (10°) and 60 (10°). My Irons are Callaway Apex 21 with Aerotech Steelfiber 115cw F4 (Stiff) Flex Shafts. So, If I have this correct, I could buy the Aerotech Steelfiber 115cw F5 (X-Stiff) Shafts for 8i, 9i and PW. And then use the 8i shaft for my 50, 9i shaft for my 56 and PW shaft for my 60. Is there any length modification required to the shafts to fit them into the wedges or do I just buy the shafts as-is and have them installed in my wedges as-is? Thanks for any feedback!

Are ALL your wedges FULL SWING club's?
All shafts has to be cut down to play length. 

[noblesin]

4 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

Are ALL your wedges FULL SWING club's?
All shafts has to be cut down to play length. 

 

Thanks for the response. No, the 50 and 56 will be full swing mostly but I use the 60 for chipping around the greens and getting out of bunkers etc.

[Howard_Jones]

1 hour ago, noblesin said:

 

Thanks for the response. No, the 50 and 56 will be full swing mostly but I use the 60 for chipping around the greens and getting out of bunkers etc.

Then its no reason for using a #9 as SW and PW for LW
Use the same X flex #8 for all 3