Spinner shafts for wedges by Howard Jones - The #8 iron spinner trick

[blehnhard]

Thank you Howard.

[globetrottingdad]

Hi Guys, 

 

Howard has responded to me in another topic, but I wanted to keep in this thread and as I do have a question left, perhaps somebody can help me:

 

I game the AMT Black S300. As is known, the S300 is the stiffest flex in AMT Black. Now, as the AMT line is an ascending weight technology, basically every shaft in the line-up is a unique shaft with the specific flex and weight caracteristics. What I also know is that AMT Black does provide Shafts up to the AW wedge. The weighting sharts at the A wedge at 115 grams and then descents 3 grams per iron step. 

If I follow the logic correctly, I would need the A wedge shaft, and tip trim it 3/8 and use that in the 60/56/52 wedges. 

 

Is this the correct logic?

[Howard_Jones]

2 hours ago, globetrottingdad said:

Hi Guys, 

 

Howard has responded to me in another topic, but I wanted to keep in this thread and as I do have a question left, perhaps somebody can help me:

 

I game the AMT Black S300. As is known, the S300 is the stiffest flex in AMT Black. Now, as the AMT line is an ascending weight technology, basically every shaft in the line-up is a unique shaft with the specific flex and weight caracteristics. What I also know is that AMT Black does provide Shafts up to the AW wedge. The weighting sharts at the A wedge at 115 grams and then descents 3 grams per iron step. 

If I follow the logic correctly, I would need the A wedge shaft, and tip trim it 3/8 and use that in the 60/56/52 wedges. 

 

Is this the correct logic?

I overlooked that it was the BLACK model, then you can use the GW shaft for GAP, -Sand and LOB - NO tip trim needed, unless you want them even stronger, but my memory say you did not want them to be too strong, and since the GW shaft we trace for all others, can be bought here, its a home-run with no issues or mods needed. Just go strait in and butt cut to your play length. 

You will NOT loose 3 grams pr club.
The GW will be just fine, since its a dedicated shaft with no soft stepping
For the SW you loose weight equal to 2/8" if yours has 2/8" between clubs

Example 115 grams / 35.50" = 2.23 grams pr inch / 4 = 0.8 grams only on the SW, and 1.6 grams down for the Lob

Edited September 11, 2023 by Howard_Jones

[parl112]

Playing DG s300 shafts in irons, and the set comes with a matching GW that is 48 deg. I plan on adding a 52/56/60. 

 

I plan on taking full shots with the 48 and 52 degree, but only partials with the 56/60. 

 

I understand that I should use a DG X100 8i for the 52/56/60, but should I also use the DG x100 8i for the iron set's GW 48 degree?

 

 

Edited September 13, 2023 by parl112

[Howard_Jones]

On 9/13/2023 at 5:00 AM, parl112 said:

Playing DG s300 shafts in irons, and the set comes with a matching GW that is 48 deg. I plan on adding a 52/56/60. 

 

I plan on taking full shots with the 48 and 52 degree, but only partials with the 56/60. 

 

I understand that I should use a DG X100 8i for the 52/56/60, but should I also use the DG x100 8i for the iron set's GW 48 degree?

 

 

They might call a 48* a GW, but its a PW, so unless it goes too high, leave it untill you have tried the others

Edited September 14, 2023 by Howard_Jones

[tilasan]

@Howard_Jones I just wanted to say thank you.  As a long time s400 user in all of my wedges, because everyone said use softer and heavier.  My wedge shafts were basically noodles as I am playing modus 115x in my irons.  I have used X100s before in my irons, so I chose to use the x7 8 iron shafts in my 50, 55, and 60.  After only playing one round, I can already tell, it is a night and day difference.  Everything just feels tighter, even on partial shots.  I like that a lot!

[Howard_Jones]

2 hours ago, tilasan said:

@Howard_Jones I just wanted to say thank you.  As a long time s400 user in all of my wedges, because everyone said use softer and heavier.  My wedge shafts were basically noodles as I am playing modus 115x in my irons.  I have used X100s before in my irons, so I chose to use the x7 8 iron shafts in my 50, 55, and 60.  After only playing one round, I can already tell, it is a night and day difference.  Everything just feels tighter, even on partial shots.  I like that a lot!

X7 #8 iron shafts is the optimal wedge shaft for a X flex player who prefer the feel of Dynamic Gold.
Dont be affraid to go harder after it, and land the ball closer to the pin than you are used to, the added spin will stop it in time, so it takes a lillte practice to TRUST that its working like that. The extra power used for longer carry on the same shot/distance to the pin, adds even more spin, but we have to get used to it and see that its working, and it does.

[MitchCumstein]

I play KBS 120 Stiff 4-GW in my irons using matching GW to P770.   I’m okay with the flight on my GW as setup with the KBS 120 stiff but for 54* and 58* want something more spinner like.  My issue is the KBS does come only to 9 iron as shortest option and I also want to step up in weight only a bit on 54 and 58 which the S+ does to 125G which is what I like.  My question is what if I took 8 iron shafts from S+ and put in my 54 and 58?  This would get me the weight I want and also should lower flight with more spin as intended by stiffer flex correct?  Or would I just be creating a slightly heavier version of KBS Tour Stiff 120 on the 54 and 58 by this method?  

 

I see in the charts on page 1 Howard recommends mixing 130X into Gap but then back to S+ in SW and LW which is a 125G shaft.  Seems odd to go 120 4-PW then 130 in GW and then back to 125G in SW and LW to me.  

[parl112]

@Howard_Jones I have another question. I've read a few of your responses in other threads about using .370 shafts and I am just confused.

 

I ordered a new set of maltby clubs with s300 shafts thru golfworks, and as far as I can tell, they were made with .370 shafts. If I want to make my gap wedge with the spinner trick, can I use an uncut x100 .370 shaft, tip trim it 3.5" like the dynamic gold guide says for an 8i, and then butt cut to length?

[Howard_Jones]

34 minutes ago, parl112 said:

@Howard_Jones I have another question. I've read a few of your responses in other threads about using .370 shafts and I am just confused.

 

I ordered a new set of maltby clubs with s300 shafts thru golfworks, and as far as I can tell, they were made with .370 shafts. If I want to make my gap wedge with the spinner trick, can I use an uncut x100 .370 shaft, tip trim it 3.5" like the dynamic gold guide says for an 8i, and then butt cut to length?

Go back to page 1 and read the chapter for DESCENDING WGT

[parl112]

3 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

Go back to page 1 and read the chapter for DESCENDING WGT

Okay, thanks! I got so caught up trying to read all of the other responses on the 16 pages to see if there was an answer, that I forgot to check your initial post.

 

So that section confirms I can use .370 X100 shaft and tip trim it as an 8i

[Howard_Jones]

2 hours ago, parl112 said:

Okay, thanks! I got so caught up trying to read all of the other responses on the 16 pages to see if there was an answer, that I forgot to check your initial post.

 

So that section confirms I can use .370 X100 shaft and tip trim it as an 8i

NO, it say Tip trim the SAME shaft blank you use for irons, here DG S300 parallels.
TIp trim 4.5" for PW (instead of 4.25), and tip trim 5.0 for GW

The target is a "GW shaft" to be a "spinner", so we don't have to go by soft stepping a full flex stronger to get there, we just keep up with 0.5 tip trim per club shorter than #9.

So its the same DG S300 Parallels you should use for wedge, and SKIP the tip trim instructions DG delivers from PW and further. 




We dont "gain anything" here by using X100 blanks as starting point, not even a higher shaft weight since both S300 and X100 has the same start length and weight (same grams pr inch), so the only reason there might be to use X100 blanks, was if we could not find S300 blanks, but they are more common than X100 blanks.

Using S300 will also make the feel for the SET more "fluid" and natural than it will be if we use X100. The difference is small, but for a feel player, a side by side test will tell what shaft thats the natural extension into wedges and thats using the same blank all the way.

Edited September 19, 2023 by Howard_Jones

[parl112]

3 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

NO, it say Tip trim the SAME shaft blank you use for irons, here DG S300 parallels.
TIp trim 4.5" for PW (instead of 4.25), and tip trim 5.0 for GW

The target is a "GW shaft" to be a "spinner", so we don't have to go by soft stepping a full flex stronger to get there, we just keep up with 0.5 tip trim per club shorter than #9.

So its the same DG S300 Parallels you should use for wedge, and SKIP the tip trim instructions DG delivers from PW and further. 




We dont "gain anything" here by using X100 blanks as starting point, not even a higher shaft weight since both S300 and X100 has the same start length and weight (same grams pr inch), so the only reason there might be to use X100 blanks, was if we could not find S300 blanks, but they are more common than X100 blanks.

Using S300 will also make the feel for the SET more "fluid" and natural than it will be if we use X100. The difference is small, but for a feel player, a side by side test will tell what shaft thats the natural extension into wedges and thats using the same blank all the way.

Thanks for the reply Howard. But in that paragraph a few sentences after what you highlighted, it says "You can also use a full flex stronger, and use tip trim instructions for a #8 iron."? 

[Howard_Jones]

32 minutes ago, parl112 said:

Thanks for the reply Howard. But in that paragraph a few sentences after what you highlighted, it says "You can also use a full flex stronger, and use tip trim instructions for a #8 iron."? 

YES if you cant find S300 blanks and tip trim for GW, we might use X100 blanks tip trimmed as #8 irons, so ive included all possible ways to get there, be it using tapers or parallels. 

Since the tread is written for ALL shaft models and brands, some will have the option of both making a SPINNER, AND if wanted, GAIN weight by using a flex stronger.

As example, a player who players KBS Tour Parallel tips has that option, since R-S and X has different start weight,(+5 grams), and that player should ask himself if using the same blank is the best for him, or if he also want the added shaft weight a flex up will deliver.

The DG S300 player DONT have that option, since both blanks has the same start weight, so its really no reason to start from X100 blanks for you and others who has S300. 

The only thing a S300 user can do to gain weight, is to look for S400 blanks, but those are not easy to find today, and since the tread was made for ALL brands and models, i did not want to go down to those details, since they become theoretical for the most, since those shafts is no longer in production. Adding sensicore inserts can also be done, to gain a few grams, but now we are into the "expert level", and that tread is too long as it is already, so i left those details out.'

 

My best tip here is simply ask the seller you want to buy from, if he can deliver you the extra service of putting some shafts on the gram scale, and sort out the most heavy for you.

Edited September 19, 2023 by Howard_Jones

[parl112]

22 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

YES if you cant find S300 blanks and tip trim for GW, we might use X100 blanks tip trimmed as #8 irons, so ive included all possible ways to get there, be it using tapers or parallels. 

Since the tread is written for ALL shaft models and brands, some will have the option of both making a SPINNER, AND if wanted, GAIN weight by using a flex stronger.

As example, a player who players KBS Tour Parallel tips has that option, since R-S and X has different start weight,(+5 grams), and that player should ask himself if using the same blank is the best for him, or if he also want the added shaft weight a flex up will deliver.

The DG S300 player DONT have that option, since both blanks has the same start weight, so its really no reason to start from X100 blanks for you and others who has S300. 

The only thing a S300 user can do to gain weight, is to look for S400 blanks, but those are not easy to find today, and since the tread was made for ALL brands and models, i did not want to go down to those details, since they become theoretical for the most, since those shafts is no longer in production. Adding sensicore inserts can also be done, to gain a few grams, but now we are into the "expert level", and that tread is too long as it is already, so i left those details out.'

 

My best tip here is simply ask the seller you want to buy from, if he can deliver you the extra service of putting some shafts on the gram scale, and sort out the most heavy for you.

Ok, thanks Howard!

[Jim53]

Update, it took me a few rounds to get the feel down on the @Howard_Jones spinner setup. 

But now I am seeing serious spin and control, so much so that now I have to commit to sending the ball to the hole as it drops and stops. 

That was hard to get used to at 1st as I always played a run up chip as a rule. All technique of course and user error is common, but the more I practice the luckier I get..

[Bowmangolf12]

Just getting into club making. So much to learn. Thanks for your thoroughness! 

[Skeeter]

Are you guys just using a ton of grip tape to build up the grip end? After trimming the butt from a shaft meant for an 8 iron to LW length the mouth of my grip was WAAAAY loose.

[Howard_Jones]

2 hours ago, Skeeter said:

Are you guys just using a ton of grip tape to build up the grip end? After trimming the butt from a shaft meant for an 8 iron to LW length the mouth of my grip was WAAAAY loose.

We should always build up when the grip goes over the steps, and the most used shaft for wedges, DG S400 #9, has less than 5 inch of strait butt section left when used for LOB (35.00") while if this is a S flex Iron player, he will use a DG X100 #8, and ADD 1.5 inched of strait butt section (1 step less to add tape on. For Dynamic Gold we can use 0.015 Grip tape, and say 1 step = 1 layer, 2 step 2 layers, 3 step 3 layers, and you have a strait butt section

Most that plays DG S400 as wedge, has NO build up at all, and ends with a silly small diameter for the lowest hand since the butt section is less than half the grip, the rest is over the steps.

 

Edited September 26, 2023 by Howard_Jones

[getitdaily]

On 8/21/2023 at 9:26 AM, Howard_Jones said:

OK if 125 S+ #8 worked good as GW, go #9 for SW and the same #9 for LW

Finally got some short game practice in with the $taper 125s+. Had to take a few weeks off for a hand issue.

 

Instantly feel like my short game is back. Feel is back. Ball launching higher and landing softer with spin I expect. 

 

The 130x 8i shafts, while great on full and partial swings, just lacked feel and came out too low around the greens. I had control over landing spot with ease this morning with the 125s+. 

[GooseHook]

Just wanted to report some findings as a real world club tinkerer. 

 

The 50 degree has been great with the X7 8i shaft and I had switched the 54 and 58 back to S400s recently with slightly better results. However, I finally invested in a solid swing weight scale and had some interesting findings. 

 

The 50 degree is spot on D4, my 54 and 58 are at D2 and D1. I've played my wedges at D4/5 forever and was starting to wonder why I wasn't getting any feel with the higher lofted clubs. I am going to re-do the ferrules on the wedges anyway and this season was a throwaway, so I may give this experiment another shot with tip weights. 

[Howard_Jones]

3 hours ago, GooseHook said:

Just wanted to report some findings as a real world club tinkerer. 

 

The 50 degree has been great with the X7 8i shaft and I had switched the 54 and 58 back to S400s recently with slightly better results. However, I finally invested in a solid swing weight scale and had some interesting findings. 

 

The 50 degree is spot on D4, my 54 and 58 are at D2 and D1. I've played my wedges at D4/5 forever and was starting to wonder why I wasn't getting any feel with the higher lofted clubs. I am going to re-do the ferrules on the wedges anyway and this season was a throwaway, so I may give this experiment another shot with tip weights. 

LOL...a sand or lob wedge with D1/D2 will probably NOT feel or work as it should 🙂
The 50 SHOULD work since its a GW, and now with the flex a GW should have

[Pepperturbo]

@Howard_Jones  I followed your 8i TX advice in another set of MBs.

 

Recently had new MMT i95 stiff (D2+) shafts put in T100, 5i-9i.  What would you suggest for PW, Gap & LW?

Edited October 17, 2023 by Pepperturbo

[Howard_Jones]

1 minute ago, Pepperturbo said:

@Howard_Jones  I followed your 8i TX advice in another set of MBs.

 

Recently had new MMT i95 stiff (D2+) shafts put in T100, 5i-9i.  What would you suggest for PW, Gap & LW?

What option is there in the MMT series? i dont know them at all, but it should be the same concept no matter shaft model, as long as a stronger flex exist, OR we can get there by tip trim, just like suggested on page 1 

[Pepperturbo]

7 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

What option is there in the MMT series? i dont know them at all, but it should be the same concept no matter shaft model, as long as a stronger flex exist, OR we can get there by tip trim, just like suggested on page 1 

There is no X flex in 95 gram series.  Next heaviest is 105g which as TX flex

 

Does that mean TX flex 8i shaft in PW, Gap and LW?

Edited October 17, 2023 by Pepperturbo

[Howard_Jones]

1 hour ago, Pepperturbo said:

There is no X flex in 95 gram series.  Next heaviest is 105g which as TX flex

 

Does that mean TX flex 8i shaft in PW, Gap and LW?

I think i better close down this tread for questions, what you need to know is on page 1, but way to many dont bother to read any of it, not even whats in the RED frame, so why should i bother to answer?