Spinner shafts for wedges by Howard Jones - The #8 iron spinner trick

[GooseHook]

1 hour ago, FirePro said:

If I were to go back to DG shafts in my irons and wedges, I would not hesitate to plug the X7's into all my wedges.  For a TX shaft I found it quite responsive.  With that being said I am liking the PX LS 7.0 currently as they are a little stiffer in the butt section and I feel I have more control.

 

Glad to hear you had a good experience. It seems crazy to even consider them in wedges when the "stiff" has been the norm for so many.  But even crazier that there's little to no consideration of continuing shaft progressions for the heaviest club heads in the bag. 

 

My X7s are being delivered today. I'm going 8i in the 50 degree with the 9/PW shaft in my 54 and 58. If the experiment does not work out then I figure it should be at least feasible to sell pulls and go back to my other taper tip wedge shafts. 

[awolmartinez]

Hello @Howard_Jones  ok So I read through the whole article, what a wealth of knowledge you are my man! 

For reference, I'm using PX 5.5 shafts with half flexes available.

I have one question in regards to the chart at the end you show all of the possible combinations of shafts, tipped not tipped etc. and their respective relation to the original flex i.e. SS0.4 SS1, etc. when deciding which route to take, and going for the standard spinner, is the ideal to shoot for as close to neutral as possible?

 

I'm also stuck because my irons are soft stepped 1x, so I already have a 5.5 PW shaft in my GW, so now how do I keep up the strength progression?  Would I go with 6.0 PW in SW and LW, or 6.5 #8 and #9, or 6.5 #9 and PW?

 

Edited August 10, 2023 by awolmartinez

[Howard_Jones]

8 hours ago, awolmartinez said:

Hello @Howard_Jones  ok So I read through the whole article, what a wealth of knowledge you are my man! 

For reference, I'm using PX 5.5 shafts with half flexes available.

I have one question in regards to the chart at the end you show all of the possible combinations of shafts, tipped not tipped etc. and their respective relation to the original flex i.e. SS0.4 SS1, etc. when deciding which route to take, and going for the standard spinner, is the ideal to shoot for as close to neutral as possible?

 

I'm also stuck because my irons are soft stepped 1x, so I already have a 5.5 PW shaft in my GW, so now how do I keep up the strength progression?  Would I go with 6.0 PW in SW and LW, or 6.5 #8 and #9, or 6.5 #9 and PW?

 

The 6.5 route is the one that deliovers full flex progression all the way, while 6.0 PW becomes SS1 in the LOB

[awolmartinez]

10 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

The 6.5 route is the one that deliovers full flex progression all the way, while 6.0 PW becomes SS1 in the LOB

Awesome, thank you. 👍

What about as far as the shaft choices, do I also SS the full flex up shafts and use #8/#9 for my GW/LW, or just stay with #9/PW for SW/LW?

 

Continuing the soft step seems logical to me, but I just want to be sure, this isn't a one off thing for me, I'm trying to learn the why's and how's for future projects.

 

*Nevermind I found the answer in another reply, you still the man!

Edited August 10, 2023 by awolmartinez

[GooseHook]

I finally finished assembling my RTX 6 set with X7’s the other night. 
 

Couple hours of grass range and short game time was enough to sell me on this. Or at least that the Modus 125 just flat out is wrong for me. 
 

Soft/short pitches will take some more adjustment but full swings and everything else just felt great. I definitely could tell that swing bottom tightened up and so did the trajectory of my wedge shots. With the lower launch the gap and sand wedge were both carrying farther. 

Surprisingly the best results were out of the bunker.
 

 

[Howard_Jones]

On 8/11/2023 at 10:21 PM, GooseHook said:

I finally finished assembling my RTX 6 set with X7’s the other night. 
 

Couple hours of grass range and short game time was enough to sell me on this. Or at least that the Modus 125 just flat out is wrong for me. 
 

Soft/short pitches will take some more adjustment but full swings and everything else just felt great. I definitely could tell that swing bottom tightened up and so did the trajectory of my wedge shots. With the lower launch the gap and sand wedge were both carrying farther. 

Surprisingly the best results were out of the bunker.
 

 

Some will need a bit of adjustment time to TRUST this set up, but when you do, you will go for the pin with a big fat smile. 

[jak77]

I went through all 15 pages last night to wrap my head around this. Thought I had this down in the past but after reading again, I was definitely wrong!

 

Thanks Howard for the clear and detailed instructions. You’re an awesome resource that this forum is lucky to have. 
 

I was recently fit into PX LS 6.5s and figured I’d get my wedges ready for when my new irons arrived. So today I’m going to order the PX LS 7.0 for my wedges. 
 

GW - PX 7.0 PW straight in and butt trim

SW - PX 7.0 PW, straight in or possibly tip trim 3/8in since I do take a lot of full swings with this club. 
LW - PX 7.0 PW, straight in and butt trim.

 

Many thanks again Howard.  

[GooseHook]

1 hour ago, jak77 said:

I went through all 15 pages last night to wrap my head around this. Thought I had this down in the past but after reading again, I was definitely wrong!

 

Thanks Howard for the clear and detailed instructions. You’re an awesome resource that this forum is lucky to have. 
 

I was recently fit into PX LS 6.5s and figured I’d get my wedges ready for when my new irons arrived. So today I’m going to order the PX LS 7.0 for my wedges. 
 

GW - PX 7.0 PW straight in and butt trim

SW - PX 7.0 PW, straight in or possibly tip trim 3/8in since I do take a lot of full swings with this club. 
LW - PX 7.0 PW, straight in and butt trim.

 

Many thanks again Howard.  

 

The 7.0 has separate dedicated 9i and PW shafts. Why aren't you going with this?

 

GW= 7.0 8i (#11 iron)

SW= 7.0 9i (#12 iron)

LW= 7.0 PW (#13 iron)

[jak77]

16 minutes ago, GooseHook said:

 

The 7.0 has separate dedicated 9i and PW shafts. Why aren't you going with this?

 

GW= 7.0 8i (#11 iron)

SW= 7.0 9i (#12 iron)

LW= 7.0 PW (#13 iron)

From my understanding of the first page, previous 15, and Howard’s comments, PX shafts are half flex shafts so I need to use the PW of the half stronger flex. 

 

So if I’m in 6.5 I’d use 7.0 PW in my GW. If I was 6.0, I could go 6.5 PW or 7.0 8i to get to the GW I need. 
 

That’s my understanding, hope it’s right! If I’m wrong someone tell me because I plan on ordering the shafts sometime today. 
 

Since I plan on going 7.0 PW (as long as my thinking is correct) then that’s the last shaft of the set (ie PX doesn’t make a shaft past PW). So I’d need to trim a bit to continue the flex in my SW if I wanted. But I’m not sure I want to yet since I do make partial swings with the SW so I might want it a bit softer and just go straight in for SS1. For the LW, definitely don’t want the same profile of GW, so 7.0 PW straight in would be SS2 which I think would be perfect. 

 

[GooseHook]

19 minutes ago, jak77 said:

From my understanding of the first page, previous 15, and Howard’s comments, PX shafts are half flex shafts so I need to use the PW of the half stronger flex. 

 

So if I’m in 6.5 I’d use 7.0 PW in my GW. If I was 6.0, I could go 6.5 PW or 7.0 8i to get to the GW I need. 
 

That’s my understanding, hope it’s right! If I’m wrong someone tell me because I plan on ordering the shafts sometime today. 
 

Since I plan on going 7.0 PW (as long as my thinking is correct) then that’s the last shaft of the set (ie PX doesn’t make a shaft past PW). So I’d need to trim a bit to continue the flex in my SW if I wanted. But I’m not sure I want to yet since I do make partial swings with the SW so I might want it a bit softer and just go straight in for SS1. For the LW, definitely don’t want the same profile of GW, so 7.0 PW straight in would be SS2 which I think would be perfect. 

 

 

 

OHH nevermind. I drew a complete blank about the half flexes. My bad!

[Seamus_McDuff]

2 hours ago, jak77 said:

I went through all 15 pages last night to wrap my head around this. Thought I had this down in the past but after reading again, I was definitely wrong!

 

Thanks Howard for the clear and detailed instructions. You’re an awesome resource that this forum is lucky to have. 
 

I was recently fit into PX LS 6.5s and figured I’d get my wedges ready for when my new irons arrived. So today I’m going to order the PX LS 7.0 for my wedges. 
 

GW - PX 7.0 PW straight in and butt trim

SW - PX 7.0 PW, straight in or possibly tip trim 3/8in since I do take a lot of full swings with this club. 
LW - PX 7.0 PW, straight in and butt trim.

 

Many thanks again Howard.  

 

If you’re going to tip trim for the SW you can also tip trim for the LW, either the same or slightly less than the SW. 

[jak77]

6 hours ago, GooseHook said:

 

 

OHH nevermind. I drew a complete blank about the half flexes. My bad!

 

All good! My head was spinning trying to get it all figured out last night haha.

 

5 hours ago, Seamus_McDuff said:

 

If you’re going to tip trim for the SW you can also tip trim for the LW, either the same or slightly less than the SW. 

 

Yeah I could, but I think I'd like to keep it a bit softer since this is mostly for partial shots and around the green.

[FirePro]

Good luck with the wedges, I think you will like the outcome.  Not only will they perform they will feel a lot more controlled in my opinion.

[awolmartinez]

I'm finally doing it!  Shafts just came in today, I'm going with a 1/2 flex up +5g pw shaft into SW, and Tiger stepped pw shaft into LW 🤞

Edited August 17, 2023 by awolmartinez

[getitdaily]

Howard...

 

I am $taper 120s in irons. I went 130x 8i in 50-54-60. The 130x was too stiff in the 50 so you guided me to go 125s+ 8i in 50 and it has been fantastic. 

 

If I wanted just a bit more feel in the short game with the 54 and 60, would I go $taper 125s+ 8i or 9i/w? 

[GooseHook]

This method performed as advertised in a full round today. Lower launch, equal or more spin, and way better full shots. The extra stiffness was noticeably more stable when hitting out of the rough.

 

It’s taken almost no adjustment aside from soft touch shots.

[Howard_Jones]

9 hours ago, getitdaily said:

Howard...

 

I am $taper 120s in irons. I went 130x 8i in 50-54-60. The 130x was too stiff in the 50 so you guided me to go 125s+ 8i in 50 and it has been fantastic. 

 

If I wanted just a bit more feel in the short game with the 54 and 60, would I go $taper 125s+ 8i or 9i/w? 

Refresh my memory of your set up.

120S - are they strait in or soft stepped?
What shaft is used for PW?

SW value, Irons
SW value PW
SW value GW - Full swing club?
SW value SW - Full swing/sand/rough?
SW value LW - what shots?

[Howard_Jones]

9 hours ago, GooseHook said:

This method performed as advertised in a full round today. Lower launch, equal or more spin, and way better full shots. The extra stiffness was noticeably more stable when hitting out of the rough.

 

It’s taken almost no adjustment aside from soft touch shots.

Nice feedback, good to hear it worked for you too.

 

[getitdaily]

1 hour ago, Howard_Jones said:

Refresh my memory of your set up.

120S - are they strait in or soft stepped?
What shaft is used for PW?

SW value, Irons
SW value PW
SW value GW - Full swing club?
SW value SW - Full swing/sand/rough?
SW value LW - what shots?

Iron shafts are straight in.

Pw shaft is the 120s 9i/w

Iron SW start at d3 with 4i and go up .5 point each Iron.

 

All.wedges are d6 (PW - LW)

 

GW is a full swing club

SW is a full and partial shot club and played from sand.

 

LW - anything under 95 yards and all kinds of short game shots. It's the only club I open the face for short shots.

[Howard_Jones]

2 hours ago, getitdaily said:

Iron shafts are straight in.

Pw shaft is the 120s 9i/w

Iron SW start at d3 with 4i and go up .5 point each Iron.

 

All.wedges are d6 (PW - LW)

 

GW is a full swing club

SW is a full and partial shot club and played from sand.

 

LW - anything under 95 yards and all kinds of short game shots. It's the only club I open the face for short shots.

OK if 125 S+ #8 worked good as GW, go #9 for SW and the same #9 for LW

[dabohammer]

Awesome resource, your contributions are legendary @Howard_Jones

 

Just received 3x 7i Dynamic Gold X7's for my GW, SW, and LW. Thought process being that my pitching wedge is already soft stepped 1x using Dynamic Gold 120 X100's, so I continued that trend. In fact, the Mizuno shaft optimizer and specified the X100's soft stepped 1x in my irons as my ideal fit, but unfortunately I could not order them that way. If I decide to re-shaft the irons and soft step then my wedges will already be done at least.

 

This will be a fun project before my golf trip next week.

[jak77]

19 hours ago, GooseHook said:

This method performed as advertised in a full round today. Lower launch, equal or more spin, and way better full shots. The extra stiffness was noticeably more stable when hitting out of the rough.

 

It’s taken almost no adjustment aside from soft touch shots.

 

That's awesome to hear. I have mine shafted up, just need to grip and get them out on the course. Hopefully my experience mirrors yours!

[Poor Mans Ty Webb]

Bit of a theory question here for @Howard_Jones, or anyone else with insight.  X100 player (straight in), currently have X7 7i soft stepped into the PW, and X7 8i soft stepped into the 50* wedge.  I then move to S400 straight in the 54* and 58* wedges.  SW progression is D4, D5, D6. D3 in irons.

 

Love the X7 spinner in the 50* for full shots.  No shortage of spin, and have the confidence to chase after pins.  But on partial pitch shots (especially half swing shots), the shaft feels a bit stiffer than what I'm comfortable with in the 54* and 58*.  Swing just doesn't feel as fluid on these.

 

Really comfortable with the 54* on partials and chips around the green.  Occasionally I have opportunities to attack pins with full swings, but they just feel a little squirrely and I feel like I get a bit of ballooning here without as much control. 

 

Wanting to be able to use the 50* and 54* on both full and partial shots, would 3/8"-4/8" tip trimming of an S400 shaft sort of get me the "best of both worlds" between a regular S400 wedge shaft and a spinner?  Or is there something else I could consider looking into?

 

Thanks.

Edited August 31, 2023 by Poor Mans Ty Webb

[Howard_Jones]

11 hours ago, Poor Mans Ty Webb said:

Bit of a theory question here for @Howard_Jones, or anyone else with insight.  X100 player (straight in), currently have X7 7i soft stepped into the PW, and X7 8i soft stepped into the 50* wedge.  I then move to S400 straight in the 54* and 58* wedges.  SW progression is D4, D5, D6. D3 in irons.

 

Love the X7 spinner in the 50* for full shots.  No shortage of spin, and have the confidence to chase after pins.  But on partial pitch shots (especially half swing shots), the shaft feels a bit stiffer than what I'm comfortable with in the 54* and 58*.  Swing just doesn't feel as fluid on these.

 

Really comfortable with the 54* on partials and chips around the green.  Occasionally I have opportunities to attack pins with full swings, but they just feel a little squirrely and I feel like I get a bit of ballooning here without as much control. 

 

Wanting to be able to use the 50* and 54* on both full and partial shots, would 3/8"-4/8" tip trimming of an S400 shaft sort of get me the "best of both worlds" between a regular S400 wedge shaft and a spinner?  Or is there something else I could consider looking into?

 

Thanks.

For short NO, a DG S400 tip trimmed 3-4/8 will be close to a dedicated S400 PW shaft, but thats FAR off from whats suggested for a X flex iron player. I hope this simple chart explains where each shafts fits in. A tip trimmed #9 S400 shaft will be where i placed the yellow dot, so its like "4.5 shafts softer" than X7 #8 . As you can see here, what you seems to seek, is most likely a X100 #8 or #9 iron shaft, who will be inbetween S400 #9 and X7 #8

[JoeFrigo]

On 8/20/2023 at 6:45 PM, getitdaily said:

Howard...

 

I am $taper 120s in irons. I went 130x 8i in 50-54-60. The 130x was too stiff in the 50 so you guided me to go 125s+ 8i in 50 and it has been fantastic. 

 

If I wanted just a bit more feel in the short game with the 54 and 60, would I go $taper 125s+ 8i or 9i/w? 

Thanks for asking this!!

 

I play $-Taper 125 S+ so came here to ask about my set up. I have 125 S+ wedge in my 50 and 130x wedge in 56 and 60. They feel good and have performed but I want to go the route Howard suggested to you

 

Im going to try 130x 8i in 50* and 130x 9i in 56 and 60

[blehnhard]

Hello Howard,

 

Thanks for a most informative thread. Just want to confirm my thought process.

I am having a set of forged CB irons built (6 thru PW at the moment). Will be using KB Tour Lite - parallel tip.

The 8, 9, & PW will be playing at R+ (hard stepped twice, tip trim 1" more than the R standard trim - 4" for 8, 4.5" for 9 and PW). Added on 9/4. The trim guide shows same trim for 9 & PW. Should I move the PW to 5”? PW length will only be 1/4” shorter than 9. 

As I am unsure how much you can trim of the parallel tip and leave enough room for the hosel insert and ferrule, would I be able to trim a GW to 5", a SW to 5.5" and a LW to 6" or would I have to move to the X Flex and use the 8 iron trim for the GW and then trim another 1/2 inch each for SW and LW? I hit full shots with all 3 wedges.

 

As a side note, I am having the 6 iron in this set trimmed to a true R and the 7 iron hard stepped once. Need a little more launch angle with these clubs.

 

I am 80 years old with a driver SS in the mid 80's but still a solid striker of the ball - former club professional and Senior PGA Tour player for 6 years back in the mid 90's.

 

Thanks for your input.

 

Bruce

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by blehnhard

[wolverine_man]

Can someone clarify whether, for purposes of this spinner shaft trick, a UST Recoil F3 to F4 is considered a whole flex stiffer or just a half flex? I’ve not seen the CPM on these shafts. I’m specifically talking about Regular Recoil 95 or 110, not the prototypes. 

[getitdaily]

Little intra-thread set of updates and changes...

 

I went to the 8i spinner 2 years ago. I immediately loved the control for approach shots. My wedge approach game got better, way better. 

 

However, I've been monitoring stats for short game....and it's not very good for the 8i spinner shaft. 2 years ago I averaged almost 4 birdies per round. My par 5 birdie conversion % was really good. Since the spinner shafts, my short game has taken a step back. I'm around 2 birdies per round this year and was just over 2 last year. My par 5 birdie conversion rate is WAY down. 

 

I play tournament golf on a fairly std set of courses. So I know whether it's me or not. And it's me. My practice habits haven't changed. My ball hasn't changed. I just don't get up and down nearly as consistently as I did before the 8i spinners. 

 

And there's a theme...I miss my landing spot short and come up short A TON. I have tried being more aggressive...no dice. 

 

I am pretty sure the issue is the shafts. I play on super grainy bermuda here in Florida. There are so many times I'll pitch a ball into the grain and watch it get eaten alive by spin. 

 

My 8i spinners are $taper 130x. Based on Howard's recommendation, I'm going to move to 125s+ 9i shafts. My hope is to get the same control on approach shots but a bit more softness and less greenside spin for chips and pitches...and just a bit more feel around the greens. 

 

I'll update the thread in the coming weeks after I shaft up my wedges and get some rounds under my belt.

[GooseHook]

This is a tough one. One one hand my full wedge shots have never been better. On the other, my game from 80 on in has taken a bunch of steps backwards. 
 

The X7 is 100% staying in my 50 degree but I may need to go back to the S400 in the sand and lob. It’s probably nothing that dedicated practice can’t fix but I have a busy job and young son. Golf opportunities are rare these days and I don’t have a ton of time to commit. 

[Howard_Jones]

On 9/3/2023 at 2:48 PM, blehnhard said:

Hello Howard,

 

Thanks for a most informative thread. Just want to confirm my thought process.

I am having a set of forged CB irons built (6 thru PW at the moment). Will be using KB Tour Lite - parallel tip.

The 8, 9, & PW will be playing at R+ (hard stepped twice, tip trim 1" more than the R standard trim - 4" for 8, 4.5" for 9 and PW). Added on 9/4. The trim guide shows same trim for 9 & PW. Should I move the PW to 5”? PW length will only be 1/4” shorter than 9. 

As I am unsure how much you can trim of the parallel tip and leave enough room for the hosel insert and ferrule, would I be able to trim a GW to 5", a SW to 5.5" and a LW to 6" or would I have to move to the X Flex and use the 8 iron trim for the GW and then trim another 1/2 inch each for SW and LW? I hit full shots with all 3 wedges.

 

As a side note, I am having the 6 iron in this set trimmed to a true R and the 7 iron hard stepped once. Need a little more launch angle with these clubs.

 

I am 80 years old with a driver SS in the mid 80's but still a solid striker of the ball - former club professional and Senior PGA Tour player for 6 years back in the mid 90's.

 

Thanks for your input.

 

Bruce

 

R Flex (strait in) is FCM 3.0 in KBS Tour Lite Paralell where R and S uses the same blank

For the #9 iron, R strait in = 3 1/2 " so HS 2 = 4 1/2"
As you can see of the shaft, a S flex #9 takes 5 1/2"

So there its AT LEAST 1.0" more to tip trim, meaning you can get full flex progression for both the PW and GW if you like  (5.0" PW, and 5.5" tip trim on the GW)