Spinner shafts for wedges by Howard Jones - The #8 iron spinner trick

[noodle3872]

15 hours ago, birdiestobogeys said:

Does anybody know if the DG “spinner” shaft that comes stock in the Cleveland rtx 6 is a 2x soft stepped s400 or have any more information on it? The info on the Cleveland and true temper websites is somewhat conflicting and vague. Just wondering if this shaft is away to achieve a similar outcome or is it something completely different 

DG Spinner

[horgo99]

Thanks OP for an incredibly detailed thread explaining an interesting concept I’d never had any real idea about! Kudos to you!

 

Apologies in advance if there is somewhere else to ask this, but it is on the 8i spinner topic so here goes - I’m a 4hcp here in Aus, and have just been fit in Mizuno 923forged (I’m someone who likes to play as much forgiveness as I can) with KBS Tour X 130g shafts, hard stepped 4-GW. I’m going to round out the bottom end of the bag with 54/58 combo and would very much like to do it with the 8i spinner type idea of this thread as I have always been a higher launching player. My question runs this to this - I can’t see that KBS make a “tour x” version of this shaft and if I have understood correctly you are meant to go one flex stiffer to do this for your SW/LB. Could anyone more knowledgeable then I help with what shaft I need to be getting here?? 

 

FWIW the wedges would likely be either RTX6 or Miz S23, Vokeys only a very minor chance behind the other 2, based solely on spin/launch numbers from Trackman during fitting with stock shafts. 
 

Any help greatly appreciated!

 

TLDR - What shaft do I need to get the 8i spinner trick when my irons are KBS Tour X 130g and I can’t see that they make a TX version??

 

[Howard_Jones]

5 hours ago, horgo99 said:

Thanks OP for an incredibly detailed thread explaining an interesting concept I’d never had any real idea about! Kudos to you!

 

Apologies in advance if there is somewhere else to ask this, but it is on the 8i spinner topic so here goes - I’m a 4hcp here in Aus, and have just been fit in Mizuno 923forged (I’m someone who likes to play as much forgiveness as I can) with KBS Tour X 130g shafts, hard stepped 4-GW. I’m going to round out the bottom end of the bag with 54/58 combo and would very much like to do it with the 8i spinner type idea of this thread as I have always been a higher launching player. My question runs this to this - I can’t see that KBS make a “tour x” version of this shaft and if I have understood correctly you are meant to go one flex stiffer to do this for your SW/LB. Could anyone more knowledgeable then I help with what shaft I need to be getting here?? 

 

FWIW the wedges would likely be either RTX6 or Miz S23, Vokeys only a very minor chance behind the other 2, based solely on spin/launch numbers from Trackman during fitting with stock shafts. 
 

Any help greatly appreciated!

 

TLDR - What shaft do I need to get the 8i spinner trick when my irons are KBS Tour X 130g and I can’t see that they make a TX version??

 

There is no TX flex option, and Tours shortest and stiffest is a PW shaft thats 37.00" uncut, so to get a "GW shaft", your only option is to tip trim a 130 X PW shaft, so you need a 0.370 reamer so those tip trimmed shafts fits the hosel after tip trim.  (scroll up a few posts to description and a movie on the Youtube to how reaming is done.)

A Tour 130 X PW shaft, needs 5/8" tip trim to become a "GW shaft", and thats the flex we use as "#8 iron spinner".

TX flex #8, X+ flex PW (who dont exist), or  X flex PW tip trimmed 5/8" delivers the same shaft, a shaft that fits the GW slot in a full progression flex set, so we have all 3 options to get there, but since a TX of X+ flex dont exist here, your only option becomes to tip trim a 130 X PW shaft with 5/8"

Edited April 17, 2023 by Howard_Jones

[horgo99]

7 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

There is no TX flex option, and Tours shortest and stiffest is a PW shaft thats 37.00" uncut, so to get a "GW shaft", your only option is to tip trim a 130 X PW shaft, so you need a 0.370 reamer so those tip trimmed shafts fits the hosel after tip trim.  (scroll up a few posts to description and a movie on the Youtube to how reaming is done.)

A Tour 130 X PW shaft, needs 5/8" tip trim to become a "GW shaft", and thats the flex we use as "#8 iron spinner".

TX flex #8, X+ flex PW (who dont exist), or  X flex PW tip trimmed 5/8" delivers the same shaft, a shaft that fits the GW slot in a full progression flex set, so we have all 3 options to get there, but since a TX of X+ flex dont exist here, your only option becomes to tip trim a 130 X PW shaft with 5/8"

Thanks Howard, really appreciate your help here! I don’t really have anyone to discuss this with so just want to make sure I’m across it. 
 

I’m going into JPX923 Forged 4-GW with the KBS Tour X 130g, and I’ll likely get them hard stepped. That would just mean they put the Tour 5i shaft in my 4i and make to length yes (playing 37.25, 1uprt)? So once we get down to PW/GW in the set does that mean they will just tip trim a PW shaft twice to get the desired outcome-trim it one length to achieve a hard step PW and then trim it further for a hard step GW? And then I’d be going into a Mizuno S23 54/58, to achieve the same 8i spinner effect as the GW would I just get them to put the same length cut PW shaft in my two specialty wedges as I did my GW?

 

I might have that jumbled, please correct me if so. Going to be ordering it made from Mizuno so just want to make sure I have the details down! I really appreciate the help @Howard_Jones!!

[horgo99]

Duplicate post, sorry!

Edited April 17, 2023 by horgo99

[Howard_Jones]

12 hours ago, horgo99 said:

Thanks Howard, really appreciate your help here! I don’t really have anyone to discuss this with so just want to make sure I’m across it. 
 

I’m going into JPX923 Forged 4-GW with the KBS Tour X 130g, and I’ll likely get them hard stepped. That would just mean they put the Tour 5i shaft in my 4i and make to length yes (playing 37.25, 1uprt)? So once we get down to PW/GW in the set does that mean they will just tip trim a PW shaft twice to get the desired outcome-trim it one length to achieve a hard step PW and then trim it further for a hard step GW? And then I’d be going into a Mizuno S23 54/58, to achieve the same 8i spinner effect as the GW would I just get them to put the same length cut PW shaft in my two specialty wedges as I did my GW?

 

I might have that jumbled, please correct me if so. Going to be ordering it made from Mizuno so just want to make sure I have the details down! I really appreciate the help @Howard_Jones!!

If Irons gets Hard stepped 1 x, your #9 iron club will be the shortest as HS1
- That means if you want full flex progression the PW id the first club to tip trim 5/8" , since its no other ways to make it "1 shaft stronger" to become hard stepped once.
.- The GW will need 1.25", to play like a GW hard stepped once.

Now its you to you how you want the SW and LW to play
The norm is to use a shaft identical to GW, and that means 1.25" tip trim from PW on those clubs too.

To make it fit, hosel on all 4 wedges needs a ream job to 0.370 tip size 
 

[horgo99]

1 hour ago, Howard_Jones said:

If Irons gets Hard stepped 1 x, your #9 iron club will be the shortest as HS1
- That means if you want full flex progression the PW id the first club to tip trim 5/8" , since its no other ways to make it "1 shaft stronger" to become hard stepped once.
.- The GW will need 1.25", to play like a GW hard stepped once.

Now its you to you how you want the SW and LW to play
The norm is to use a shaft identical to GW, and that means 1.25" tip trim from PW on those clubs too.

To make it fit, hosel on all 4 wedges needs a ream job to 0.370 tip size 
 

Ok so I think I’m on the same page now. To get my irons hard stepped, PW full swing club, GW/SW/LW with the “8i spinner” shaft version this is what I need to get done

 

9i = PW Shaft

PW = PW shaft, tip trimmed 5/8in, hosel reamed

GW = PW shaft, tip trimmed 1.25in, hosel reamed

SW = PW shaft, tip trimmed 1.25in, hosel reamed

LW = PW shaft, tip trimmed 1.25in, hosel reamed

 

and they would all play shorter then the regular length for that club due to the hard stepping (that alone might be reason enough to not hard step). Is there anyway around the shortened length with the hard stepping?

So Howard, that 9-LW shaft progression above should give me a slightly lower launch in regular play for 4-PW compared to normal KBS Tour 130 X, and then JPX923 GW 49*/S23 54/S23 58 will all play as equivalent 8i spinner shafts - stiffer shafts compared to my irons and lower launching/higher spinning on shorter swings 100m and in?

 

Thanks again @Howard_Jones I’ll have to owe you a beer and a round if you ever find your way out to sunny QLD!

 

The final piece of the puzzle…I can’t imagine Mizuno would be particularly keen on reaming their own irons so I wonder if I will even be able to order this spec sheet through them from a retail perspective!!

 

 

[Howard_Jones]

2 hours ago, horgo99 said:

Ok so I think I’m on the same page now. To get my irons hard stepped, PW full swing club, GW/SW/LW with the “8i spinner” shaft version this is what I need to get done

 

9i = PW Shaft

PW = PW shaft, tip trimmed 5/8in, hosel reamed

GW = PW shaft, tip trimmed 1.25in, hosel reamed

SW = PW shaft, tip trimmed 1.25in, hosel reamed

LW = PW shaft, tip trimmed 1.25in, hosel reamed

 

and they would all play shorter then the regular length for that club due to the hard stepping (that alone might be reason enough to not hard step). Is there anyway around the shortened length with the hard stepping?

So Howard, that 9-LW shaft progression above should give me a slightly lower launch in regular play for 4-PW compared to normal KBS Tour 130 X, and then JPX923 GW 49*/S23 54/S23 58 will all play as equivalent 8i spinner shafts - stiffer shafts compared to my irons and lower launching/higher spinning on shorter swings 100m and in?

 

Thanks again @Howard_Jones I’ll have to owe you a beer and a round if you ever find your way out to sunny QLD!

 

The final piece of the puzzle…I can’t imagine Mizuno would be particularly keen on reaming their own irons so I wonder if I will even be able to order this spec sheet through them from a retail perspective!!

 

 

New uncut shafts is WAY to long, and KBS Tour is 0.5"  even than DG uncut, and for DG we average cut off 2.5 inch from uncut down to standard play length, so hard stepping DO NOT make them shorter if we start from new uncut shafts, it will only be 0.5" less to cut off down to your play length.

Since its all "relative" to using the shortest shaft "strait in", in your case, the PW shaft, we can if we was IRON BYRON, say that 1 shaft stronger, reduces APEX by 5 feets, and 1 shaft weaker adds 5 feets to apex.

If you played your PW, both as #9, PW, GW, SW and LW, we could say
APEX goes up, VS FULL FLEX, by 5, 10, 15 and 20 feets

When we now, goes "hard stepping" all the way included GW, it would be
PW - 0 addition to apex (we got 5 feets lower)
GW = 0 addition to apex (we got 10 feets lower)
SW = 5 feets higher vs full flex (10 feets lower than a PW strait in)
LW = 10 feets higher vs full flex (10 feets lower than a  PW strait in)

Unless your SW is a full swing club, i dont think you should go stronger than this for feel reasons, and this is the norm for the #8 iron spinner trick. FULL flex progression included the GW, then it becomes SS1 in the Sand, and SS2 as  LOW wedge. The addition from higher SW value makes them softer too, with 1 CPM for each SWP.

If GW if D2 and SW is D5  (+ 3 SWP) and played to full swing, we can moderate tip trim to 3/8" extra for the SW, so we only compensate for the SW difference, and get "actual SS1" for that club.

Edited April 18, 2023 by Howard_Jones

[horgo99]

6 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

New uncut shafts is WAY to long, and KBS Tour is 0.5"  even than DG uncut, and for DG we average cut off 2.5 inch from uncut down to standard play length, so hard stepping DO NOT make them shorter if we start from new uncut shafts, it will only be 0.5" less to cut off down to your play length.

Since its all "relative" to using the shortest shaft "strait in", in your case, the PW shaft, we can if we was IRON BYRON, say that 1 shaft stronger, reduces APEX by 5 feets, and 1 shaft weaker adds 5 feets to apex.

If you played your PW, both as #9, PW, GW, SW and LW, we could say
APEX goes up, VS FULL FLEX, by 5, 10, 15 and 20 feets

When we now, goes "hard stepping" all the way included GW, it would be
PW - 0 addition to apex (we got 5 feets lower)
GW = 0 addition to apex (we got 10 feets lower)
SW = 5 feets higher vs full flex (10 feets lower than a PW strait in)
LW = 10 feets higher vs full flex (10 feets lower than a  PW strait in)

Unless your SW is a full swing club, i dont think you should go stronger than this for feel reasons, and this is the norm for the #8 iron spinner trick. FULL flex progression included the GW, then it becomes SS1 in the Sand, and SS2 as  LOW wedge. The addition from higher SW value makes them softer too, with 1 CPM for each SWP.

If GW if D2 and SW is D5  (+ 3 SWP) and played to full swing, we can moderate tip trim to 3/8" extra for the SW, so we only compensate for the SW difference, and get "actual SS1" for that club.

Alright cool so the total length of the shaft can still play whatever I want - that’s good news!

 

 But you did lose me a bit through the rest of the explanation there Howard. So am I understanding correctly that you would only look at doing the 8i spinner equivalent in GW and SW, but not LW?

 

Can you show me here exactly what I would need to ask for to achieve hard step 9-LW, and which ones for 8i spinner shafts?

eg.

9i- PW shaft, straight in

PW- PW shaft, what tip trim? Reamed? 8i spinner?

GW- ??

SW- ??

LW- ??

 

Sorry but with no way to test it here before I place my order I just want to make sure I’m getting it right and have it as clear as possible! Cheers again

[Howard_Jones]

9 hours ago, horgo99 said:

Alright cool so the total length of the shaft can still play whatever I want - that’s good news!

 

 But you did lose me a bit through the rest of the explanation there Howard. So am I understanding correctly that you would only look at doing the 8i spinner equivalent in GW and SW, but not LW?

 

Can you show me here exactly what I would need to ask for to achieve hard step 9-LW, and which ones for 8i spinner shafts?

eg.

9i- PW shaft, straight in

PW- PW shaft, what tip trim? Reamed? 8i spinner?

GW- ??

SW- ??

LW- ??

 

Sorry but with no way to test it here before I place my order I just want to make sure I’m getting it right and have it as clear as possible! Cheers again

I dont think you can order this from any OEMs, thats not the type of jobs they do, so you will either have to find a cústom club maker, or do the job yourself, like ordering the clubs without grips out on, and over length (above target) equal to planned tip trim, so when you get them home, have the shafts pulled, the heads reamed shaft tip trimmed and installed.

And its just like your wrote yourself above, no matter who does the job

9i = PW Shaft (hard stepped 1x)

PW = PW shaft, tip trimmed 5/8in, hosel reamed (hard stepped 1x)

GW = PW shaft, tip trimmed 1.25in, hosel reamed (hard stepped 1x)

SW = PW shaft, tip trimmed 1.25in, hosel reamed (relative soft stepped 1x vs irons)

LW = PW shaft, tip trimmed 1.25in, hosel reamed (relative soft stepped 2x v irons)

So thats 5 x 130  PW shafts, one strait in as #9 iron shaft, the others tip trimmed.

Edited April 19, 2023 by Howard_Jones

[SmokedFish]

Hi,

what is the effect if two flexes stronger shaft is used? If s300 is used in other irons and want to create a "spinner" shaft.
 

DG X7 #6 iron cut to wedge length
vs

DG X100 #8 iron cut to wedge length

Edited April 19, 2023 by SmokedFish

[Howard_Jones]

7 hours ago, SmokedFish said:

Hi,

what is the effect if two flexes stronger shaft is used? If s300 is used in other irons and want to create a "spinner" shaft.
 

DG X7 #6 iron cut to wedge length
vs

DG X100 #8 iron cut to wedge length

Why would anyone whants to do that?
Aint here options enough?
What are you trying to achive?

[SmokedFish]

7 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

Why would anyone whants to do that?
Aint here options enough?
What are you trying to achive?

Just thinking in theory what the effect would be. Would it be even more spin and lower launch? Or would those be similar in ball flight and just a different feeling between x100 and x7? 

[ComptonTerry]

Hey @Howard_Jones

 

Sorry if this is a bad question. I currently play DG X100s in 4-PW with a 50, 54, and 60.  So I could simply drop a butt trimmed DG X7 8iron shaft in each of the 3 wedges and call it good.  Or I could get more aggressive and do the DG X7 9iron in my 60 degree. So would the difference between the DG X7 8 iron/9 iron in the LW simply be a lower launch and spin profile with the 9iron vs the 8 iron.  I really appreciate your post.

 

Thanks again!

 

 

 

 

[Howard_Jones]

9 hours ago, ComptonTerry said:

Hey @Howard_Jones

 

Sorry if this is a bad question. I currently play DG X100s in 4-PW with a 50, 54, and 60.  So I could simply drop a butt trimmed DG X7 8iron shaft in each of the 3 wedges and call it good.  Or I could get more aggressive and do the DG X7 9iron in my 60 degree. So would the difference between the DG X7 8 iron/9 iron in the LW simply be a lower launch and spin profile with the 9iron vs the 8 iron.  I really appreciate your post.

 

Thanks again!

 

 

 

 

Again, go get ball flight down and spin up, we should have flex progression (stiffer club by club), all the way to the last club we play to full swing. If thats the GW, then we go X7 #8, and use the same shaft for SW and LW. They will be soft stepped, but since we dont load and release them as hard as full swing clubs, its no reason to "overdo it", but if we wanted to stretch it to the max, we could use X7 #9 for SW, and a #9 tip trimmed 3/8" for LW, but they will most likely feel "stiff" and not how wedge shafts should feel, so we are trying to balance it all out here, and get the best from both worlds by being "moderate" and not go to far. By using the #8 iron spinner trick, we get shaft thats FEELS natural and like our irons, but if we go too strong (on partial clubs), they will feel "dead" and rigid, and im not so sure we gain much spin to speak of either, since shafts played to partials dont bend much in the first place.

[ComptonTerry]

1 hour ago, Howard_Jones said:

Again, go get ball flight down and spin up, we should have flex progression (stiffer club by club), all the way to the last club we play to full swing. If thats the GW, then we go X7 #8, and use the same shaft for SW and LW. They will be soft stepped, but since we dont load and release them as hard as full swing clubs, its no reason to "overdo it", but if we wanted to stretch it to the max, we could use X7 #9 for SW, and a #9 tip trimmed 3/8" for LW, but they will most likely feel "stiff" and not how wedge shafts should feel, so we are trying to balance it all out here, and get the best from both worlds by being "moderate" and not go to far. By using the #8 iron spinner trick, we get shaft thats FEELS natural and like our irons, but if we go too strong (on partial clubs), they will feel "dead" and rigid, and im not so sure we gain much spin to speak of either, since shafts played to partials dont bend much in the first place.

 

Love it.  Gonna use the DG X7 8iron shaft for all 3 wedges.  Thank you again for all the info sir!

[Howard_Jones]

41 minutes ago, ComptonTerry said:

 

Love it.  Gonna use the DG X7 8iron shaft for all 3 wedges.  Thank you again for all the info sir!

Please tell us how that worked for you when done, way to few do that.

[Baby_Draw]

10 hours ago, ComptonTerry said:

 

Love it.  Gonna use the DG X7 8iron shaft for all 3 wedges.  Thank you again for all the info sir!

Interested in hearing how this goes as well!

 

I play X7 4-PW, so based on what I've read the best thing to do (since there isn't a stiffer option, making the 8i too soft) is actually the 9i/PW X7 shaft straight in to 50/54/58, effectively making the wedges SS1/SS2/SS3. May be giving this a whirl. 

[Howard_Jones]

2 hours ago, Baby_Draw said:

Interested in hearing how this goes as well!

 

I play X7 4-PW, so based on what I've read the best thing to do (since there isn't a stiffer option, making the 8i too soft) is actually the 9i/PW X7 shaft straight in to 50/54/58, effectively making the wedges SS1/SS2/SS3. May be giving this a whirl. 

Thats the CLASSIC set up, this shafts is NOT strong enough to be "#8 iron spinners"
PW is SS1.
GW is SS2
SW is SS3
LW is SS4

But, sure, if you now play even softer shafts in wedges, ball flight will go down and spin will go up, so the suggestion for all X7 iron player is to use TIP TRIM like explained on page 1.

PW = 5/8" tip trim to make it a PW shaft 
GW = 1.25" tip trim to make it a GW shaft
SW = 1.25 tip trim to make it SS1

LW = 1.25 tip trim to make it SS2

The CLASSIC set up, using the #9 from #9 and shorter is the RED
The "8 iron spinner" with full flex included the GW (here with tip trim) is the BLACK



 

Edited April 21, 2023 by Howard_Jones

[hammergolf]

On 4/21/2023 at 12:15 AM, Howard_Jones said:

Thats the CLASSIC set up, this shafts is NOT strong enough to be "#8 iron spinners"
PW is SS1.
GW is SS2
SW is SS3
LW is SS4

But, sure, if you now play even softer shafts in wedges, ball flight will go down and spin will go up, so the suggestion for all X7 iron player is to use TIP TRIM like explained on page 1.

PW = 5/8" tip trim to make it a PW shaft 
GW = 1.25" tip trim to make it a GW shaft
SW = 1.25 tip trim to make it SS1

LW = 1.25 tip trim to make it SS2

The CLASSIC set up, using the #9 from #9 and shorter is the RED
The "8 iron spinner" with full flex included the GW (here with tip trim) is the BLACK



 

Hello Howard, a bit off topic here, but do you have any info on the balance point of the Ping CFS Reg shafts and MMT 85 Reg shafts?

[Howard_Jones]

47 minutes ago, hammergolf said:

Hello Howard, a bit off topic here, but do you have any info on the balance point of the Ping CFS Reg shafts and MMT 85 Reg shafts?

Thats WAY off topic and NOT wanted here, PLEASE DO NOT do that, if you absolutely want ME to reply, open a tread and TAG me, DONT misuse a pinned TOPIC to OF TOPIC questions, but the answer is, the MMT model is to new vs the datas ive got at hand (i have NON PING shafts datas at all), but i will get them, and send you a PM, but it might take a few days since its weekend.

 

Edited April 22, 2023 by Howard_Jones

[hammergolf]

2 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

Thats WAY off topic and NOT wanted here, PLEASE DO NOT do that, if you absolutely want ME to reply, open a tread and TAG me, DONT misuse a pinned TOPIC to OF TOPIC questions, but the answer is, BOTH model is to new vs the datas ive got at hand, but i will get them and send you a PM, but it might take a few days since its weekend.

I apologize. I’ll tag you on new thread.

Edited April 22, 2023 by hammergolf

[birdiestobogeys]

On 4/14/2023 at 10:55 PM, noodle3872 said:

DG Spinner

Thanks for the link. That was why I asked the info as on the DG site it is vague as to how the shaft is cut. “..compared to S400 .. features 5% weight reduction and longer more active tip” 

 

Then on Cleveland site it says “.. similar profile to S200, specifically designed for wedge play” 

 

They are comparing to different shafts and don’t say exactly what is different. Just thought it might be 2x soft stepped s400 or s200 and wondered if anybody had anyway to confirm or deny that. 

[hammergolf]

On 4/21/2023 at 12:15 AM, Howard_Jones said:

Thats the CLASSIC set up, this shafts is NOT strong enough to be "#8 iron spinners"
PW is SS1.
GW is SS2
SW is SS3
LW is SS4

But, sure, if you now play even softer shafts in wedges, ball flight will go down and spin will go up, so the suggestion for all X7 iron player is to use TIP TRIM like explained on page 1.

PW = 5/8" tip trim to make it a PW shaft 
GW = 1.25" tip trim to make it a GW shaft
SW = 1.25 tip trim to make it SS1

LW = 1.25 tip trim to make it SS2

The CLASSIC set up, using the #9 from #9 and shorter is the RED
The "8 iron spinner" with full flex included the GW (here with tip trim) is the 

Edited May 1, 2023 by hammergolf

[steventoo]

On 4/18/2023 at 12:04 AM, Howard_Jones said:

There is no TX flex option, and Tours shortest and stiffest is a PW shaft thats 37.00" uncut, so to get a "GW shaft", your only option is to tip trim a 130 X PW shaft, so you need a 0.370 reamer so those tip trimmed shafts fits the hosel after tip trim.  (scroll up a few posts to description and a movie on the Youtube to how reaming is done.)

A Tour 130 X PW shaft, needs 5/8" tip trim to become a "GW shaft", and thats the flex we use as "#8 iron spinner".

TX flex #8, X+ flex PW (who dont exist), or  X flex PW tip trimmed 5/8" delivers the same shaft, a shaft that fits the GW slot in a full progression flex set, so we have all 3 options to get there, but since a TX of X+ flex dont exist here, your only option becomes to tip trim a 130 X PW shaft with 5/8"

Thanks Howard and horgo99 - this was my question too, with the same shafts, and I greatly appreciate Howard's answer and the ongoing discussion. It's given me some very useful advice and a good guide to getting started and what to do.

 

Much appreciated - many thanks.

[Howard_Jones]

2 hours ago, hammergolf said:

Howard, what  would be the launch/spin difference between a regular flex shaft inserted normally into say a 7 iron, versus the same weight and model stiff flex shaft that was softstepped twice into a 7 iron?

- If you was reading THIS topic, you might have noticed that we use "1 shaft = 5 CPM = 5 FEETS on apex" for constant wgt shaft as the average. 



For IRONS, the spin difference is MINIMAL and average 24 rpm for each feet on apex. (#6 iron 31*)

or a average of  "125  rpm pr shaft". (longer clubs less, shorter clubs more up to the loft area of a PW)

IRONS (#6 -31*) - ROUNDED NUMBERS
SS1 = 5 feets on apex and average 125 rpm - Equal to 0.5* loft change - 0.25* Launch angle
SS2 = 10 feets on apex as average 250 rpm - Equal to 1.0* loft change - 0.50* Launch angle
SS3 = 15 feets on apex as average 750 prm - Equal to 1.50* loft change - 0.75* on launch angle (1 full flex or S to X flex for a ROBOT)

WEDGES
For WEDGES, the spin difference is 100 - 150 rpm for each feet CPM or feets on apex. (500-750 per shaft) if its descending wgt shafts or shafts with a slope of average 4 CPM between clubs, we have 4 feet on apex and 400-600 rpm of spin. per shaft) (Average values ) (RIFLE - KBS - PX)


 

Edited May 1, 2023 by Howard_Jones

[hammergolf]

19 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

- If you was reading THIS topic, you might have noticed that we use "1 shaft = 5 CPM = 5 FEETS on apex" for constant wgt shaft as the average. 



For IRONS, the spin difference is MINIMAL and average 24 rpm for each feet on apex. (#6 iron 31*)

or a average of  "125  rpm pr shaft". (longer clubs less, shorter clubs more up to the loft area of a PW)

IRONS (#6 -31*) - ROUNDED NUMBERS
SS1 = 5 feets on apex and average 125 rpm - Equal to 0.5* loft change - 0.25* Launch angle
SS2 = 10 feets on apex as average 250 rpm - Equal to 1.0* loft change - 0.50* Launch angle
SS3 = 15 feets on apex as average 750 prm - Equal to 1.50* loft change - 0.75* on launch angle (1 full flex or S to X flex for a ROBOT)

WEDGES
For WEDGES, the spin difference is 100 - 150 rpm for each feet CPM or feets on apex. (500-750 per shaft) if its descending wgt shafts of shafts with a slope of 4 CPM between clubs, we have 4 feet on apex and 400-600 rpm of spin. per shaft) (Average values ) (RIFLE - KBS - PX)


 

If I would have understood THIS topic I wouldn’t have asked the question. No worries, won’t ask anything again.

[woodriff]

Thanks for the original post Howard. Though I do not have a stiff shaft available I took a regular DG 8 iron shaft and tip trimmed 1/2 inch to make it stiffer, I then cut the butt to standard wedge length. I believe that was a solution for me. 

[Howard_Jones]

On 5/7/2023 at 4:38 PM, woodriff said:

Thanks for the original post Howard. Though I do not have a stiff shaft available I took a regular DG 8 iron shaft and tip trimmed 1/2 inch to make it stiffer, I then cut the butt to standard wedge length. I believe that was a solution for me. 

Tip trim a #8 iron shaft makes it close to a #9, so you lost 1.8 grams shaft wgt vs a #9 iron shaft, thats all you got, its not even close to a spinner, but slightly softer than a standard #9

If you started from S300 #8, you now got a shaft identical to S200 #9, or what have been called Wedge flex" for more than a decade...

It might be just fine for you, but has nothing to do with the the #8 iron spinner trick, since that shaft will launch very high and have low spin compared to what we try to achieve here.

Edited May 9, 2023 by Howard_Jones

[Ben Pop]

I am very confused by the charts so just gonna ask the question for my situation as I’d like to have lower flighted wedges. I currently have Tour issued S400 shafts in my irons and wedge flex in my wedges (52 and 58). So to get this right, I should be buying X100 8i for my 52 and X100 PW for my 58? @Howard_Jones