Spinner shafts for wedges by Howard Jones - The #8 iron spinner trick

[Howard_Jones]

8 hours ago, Kitt said:

Hi Howard, I saw your CPM and Deflection chart comparing between Modus 105X and Modus 125X. Currently I'm using Modus 105X on my irons. My wedges are 50,54 and 58 all three using KBS Hi Rev 125S. I really don't like it the flight is just too high when I hit full and 3/4 shots. All my 3 wedges i hit full, 3/4 and 1/2 shots. Around the green I use 54 and 58 depends on the lie. Should I order Modus 125X #PW x 3 shafts or Modus 125X #8,#9 and #PW? I'm not sure that Modus 125X is a full flex stronger or Half flex stronger compare it with Modus 105X.

PS. I don't want to use 105X and tip trim since it would be too light on my wedges.

Modus 105 and Modus 125 is NOT the same shaft model or profile and thats what this is all about, NOT shafts for wedges in general

[Thayneil]

On 9/30/2022 at 8:51 PM, dlow206 said:

 

I'm going to attempt to answer my own question and get thoughts from the experts. It seems like the logical jump is actually from DG 95 S200 to wedge shaft in the DG R300 for the spinner wedge. Thoughts? 

i hope you like the Dynamic Gold  95 s200.For me  the worst shaft i have ever hit! like  3 flexes soft

Currently adorning the local  pro shop wall!

[Jlocke22]

On 1/1/2023 at 10:15 PM, Jumpsmidwest said:

Got it. #9 shafts ordered for my 50, 55, & 60 degree. Will tip trim 3/8” off of each and butt trim from there. Will report back for anyone interested. Thanks again Howard! 

 

Interested! Please keep me posted. I wish I had found this last year but was fitted and had great success with C-Taper 130X however I was lost on what to do with my wedges (gapped 50/54/58) So with no real thought I stuck a C-Taper 130X PW Shaft butt trimmed in 50, KBS Hi-REV X Flex in 54, and KBS 610 S+ in 58 with the availability issues last year and tried to "get it close"... the "fitter" near me is Club Champion as not many other options so not well versed in this. I will say they were large upgrades over stock but not where I would like them to be. 

 

I think this is my next move for upcoming season! So glad I found this. Thank you @Howard_Jones and look forward to hearing back on update @Jumpsmidwest

[Jumpsmidwest]

23 minutes ago, Jlocke22 said:

 

Interested! Please keep me posted. I wish I had found this last year but was fitted and had great success with C-Taper 130X however I was lost on what to do with my wedges (gapped 50/54/58) So with no real thought I stuck a C-Taper 130X PW Shaft butt trimmed in 50, KBS Hi-REV X Flex in 54, and KBS 610 S+ in 58 with the availability issues last year and tried to "get it close"... the "fitter" near me is Club Champion as not many other options so not well versed in this. I will say they were large upgrades over stock but not where I would like them to be. 

 

I think this is my next move for upcoming season! So glad I found this. Thank you @Howard_Jones and look forward to hearing back on update @Jumpsmidwest

@Jlocke22  I play C Taper LITE 115G X-flex, which do not come in a TX flex, so i tiger stepped the 9i 115X shaft into my wedges. These shafts are not the same as what you have in your irons (C Taper 130X), so what I did will not be apples to apples with what you would do. You need to find out if your iron shafts are the parallel tip or taper tip version. If your iron shafts are taper tip then you would need to get the 9i 130x shaft and tip trim like I did to achieve what is being described in this thread. 

[Jlocke22]

@Jumpsmidwest - apologies and jumped the gun and did not go back far enough to see the LITE 115's. Yes, I have taper tips in Mizuno's and looks like I will be ordering a few shafts in the near future. Thank you

[Mr_Wolfe]

Just to confirm, is this correct for my setup?

 

I play Project X IO 6.0's in my 4-PW. Would I buy (3) PX IO 6.5's in wedge and then butt-trim for my GW, 54, & 58? Thanks.

 

Mr. Wolfe

[Howard_Jones]

1 hour ago, Mr_Wolfe said:

Just to confirm, is this correct for my setup?

 

I play Project X IO 6.0's in my 4-PW. Would I buy (3) PX IO 6.5's in wedge and then butt-trim for my GW, 54, & 58? Thanks.

 

Mr. Wolfe

Yes

[Mr_Wolfe]

7 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

Yes

Appreciate it Howard.

 

Mr. Wolfe

[third-times-a-charm]

Going to be doing this with graphite shafts for my wife soon but also moving up in weight (70R). She’s using Nelly Kordas wedge shafts (90S) right now and they’re just a touch too stiff and heavy versus her iron shafts (55A)

Edited February 5, 2023 by third-times-a-charm

[ian1974]

On 2/2/2023 at 7:14 AM, Mr_Wolfe said:

Just to confirm, is this correct for my setup?

 

I play Project X IO 6.0's in my 4-PW. Would I buy (3) PX IO 6.5's in wedge and then butt-trim for my GW, 54, & 58? Thanks.

 

Mr. Wolfe

 

On 2/2/2023 at 7:14 AM, Mr_Wolfe said:

Just to confirm, is this correct for my setup?

 

I play Project X IO 6.0's in my 4-PW. Would I buy (3) PX IO 6.5's in wedge and then butt-trim for my GW, 54, & 58? Thanks.

 

Mr. Wolfe

just so I have it correct, if he tip trimmed the 54 and 58 3/8 he could potentially increase his spin numbers?

[Howard_Jones]

11 hours ago, ian1974 said:

 

just so I have it correct, if he tip trimmed the 54 and 58 3/8 he could potentially increase his spin numbers?

YES

 

in wedges, launch goes up with loft, and spin goes down ,  so a stiffer shaft bend less , and reduce added dynamic loft

 

That takes launch down  and add spin back.

[ian1974]

On 2/16/2022 at 7:18 AM, Howard_Jones said:

Ain't that logical enough?
When we use the #8 iron spinner trick, we want a shafts strong enough to fit the slot of a dedicated  GW we cant buy, so if we use the #9 from a full flex stronger, you get a shaft that fits the slot of a dedicated SW shaft. For use in a GW that would be hard stepping once and kind of "overkill", but for a SW its "strait in", and for the LW it would be like soft stepped once or close to that.

IF you saw the chapter about TUNING OPTION, the suggestion was to tip trim 3/8" who get us close, but not all the way to a full shaft stronger for SW or LW, so if you play your SW to FULL swings, not only partials, a #9 iron shaft from a full flex stronger is absolutely a option to consider to keep ball flight down. and maximize carry and stopping power. (you gain 1.4 to 1.7 grams shaft weight that way too when we use constant wgt shafts).

Just to make sure you all can see the system, if a dedicated PW shaft exist in a full flex stronger than our irons, that PW shaft will fit the slot of a dedicated LOB wedge shaft in our iron shaft set.

With other words, its 3 times soft stepping in constant wgt shafts to become a full flex, so a X flex PW shaft is the same as a S flex LOB wedge shaft when  we have the same flex progression all the way.

Thats why the #8 iron shaft from a full flex stronger fits the slot of a GW shaft a flex weaker since thats 3 times soft stepped.

 

Just so I am completely clear on this.  I could use a #8 iron shaft from a full flex stronger for my gap wedge.  I can also use a #9 and #PW shaft from a full flex stronger for my SW and LW.  Would tip  trimming the SW and LW 3/8" improve the spin or would this be overkill???

 

My current set has the same PW shaft from PW-Lob and I'd like to try to increase spin.

[Howard_Jones]

1 hour ago, ian1974 said:

 

Just so I am completely clear on this.  I could use a #8 iron shaft from a full flex stronger for my gap wedge.  I can also use a #9 and #PW shaft from a full flex stronger for my SW and LW.  Would tip  trimming the SW and LW 3/8" improve the spin or would this be overkill???

 

My current set has the same PW shaft from PW-Lob and I'd like to try to increase spin.

 

 

Since wedges most often has about 3 SWP up from irons, we go 3 CPM softer for that reason alone.

 

Using shaftst like you suggest, fit the club head slot like a dedicated iron shaft for that head, but with standard iron SW value.

 

Tip trim for SW and LW with 3/8" only compensate for the higher SW value, but if that feels good on short partials...i have doubts, but feel preferenses is personal

 

Technically its not overkill, the question is if feel is good?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 8, 2023 by Howard_Jones

[ian1974]

1 hour ago, Howard_Jones said:

 

 

Since wedges most often has about 3 SWP up from irons, we go 3 CPM softer for that reason alone.

 

Using shaftst like you suggest, fit the club head slot like a dedicated iron shaft for that head, but with standard iron SW value.

 

Tip trim for SW and LW with 3/8" only compensate for the higher SW value, but if that feels good on short partials...i have doubts, but feel preferenses is personal

 

Technically its not overkill, the question is if feel is good?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks Howard. So if my goal is to hit that low spinner with my sw and lw to get that one hop and stop would the better move to go with an #8 iron shaft one full flex stronger and tip trim 3/8 for my sw and lw?

[Howard_Jones]

2 minutes ago, ian1974 said:

Thanks Howard. So if my goal is to hit that low spinner with my sw and lw to get that one hop and stop would the better move to go with an #8 iron shaft one full flex stronger and tip trim 3/8 for my sw and lw?

Page 1 combined with my latest reply should anwer that.

[soufrog]

So I have read thru this a few times and I don't think what I'm gonna ask has been answered and if it has I'm sorry just point me to the right page.  I wanna do this in my 54 and 58 degree wedges, possibly my 50 but probably stick with same shaft in irons.  I play mmt .370 tip stiff 90 gram. What would I use in the wedges for this?  Would I go up a flex and weight in the the taper tip?  Thank u for any and all help 

[meanttodothat]

I didn't see this specifically asked hope I'm not repeating if its already been answered.

 

I'm building a set now. 60gr graphite's in regular for my 6I-Pw. Was planning on 8 iron spinner for my GW, 52, and 56 using the same model shaft in a 70gr stiff.

 

should the gap wedge be matching my irons or should I do like I mentioned and do the spinner in those 3 wedges?

[Howard_Jones]

9 hours ago, soufrog said:

So I have read thru this a few times and I don't think what I'm gonna ask has been answered and if it has I'm sorry just point me to the right page.  I wanna do this in my 54 and 58 degree wedges, possibly my 50 but probably stick with same shaft in irons.  I play mmt .370 tip stiff 90 gram. What would I use in the wedges for this?  Would I go up a flex and weight in the the taper tip?  Thank u for any and all help 

You are trying to mix descending wgt with constant wgt....thats most often DIFFERENT models, and i dont know how MMT is on that area, but in general its NOT the same shaft, so we cant use this short cut.

[soufrog]

Ok thanks Howard that's what I was thinking 

[Jim53]

I am in the hunt for some Catalyst 100 in 6.5 flex 8 iron shafts to give this a try. Play the 100 6.0 straight though the set and would like to see if this would work for me. 

Unfortunately they are getting very hard to find in Taper tip in anything but 80 weight..

[Howard_Jones]

8 minutes ago, Jim53 said:

I am in the hunt for some Catalyst 100 in 6.5 flex 8 iron shafts to give this a try. Play the 100 6.0 straight though the set and would like to see if this would work for me. 

Unfortunately they are getting very hard to find in Taper tip in anything but 80 weight..

Thats going softer, so if you want lower launch and higher spin, its the wrong shaft.

[Jim53]

44 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

Thats going softer, so if you want lower launch and higher spin, its the wrong shaft.

I have the 6.0 and want to get 6.5 is that not correct? Should it be 7.0 if i can find them? But 100 weight is as heavy as they come in any flex.

[Howard_Jones]

2 minutes ago, Jim53 said:

I have the 6.0 and want to get 6.5 is that not correct? Should it be 7.0 if i can find them? But 100 weight is as heavy as they come in any flex.

Please go back to page 1, then read it again, especially the chapter HALF FLEXES like your shaft model belongs to.

[Jim53]

2 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

Please go back to page 1, then read it again, especially the chapter HALF FLEXES like your shaft model belongs to.

Ok I will do that, thank you

[Jim53]

Thanks clear now, should have read from the beginning again. I had before but it had slipped away.

[Howard_Jones]

1 hour ago, Jim53 said:

Thanks clear now, should have read from the beginning again. I had before but it had slipped away.

Good, because its VERY important to understand that 6.0 to 6.5 is ONLY HALF A FLEX stronger, so if you missed that point, and picked a 6.5 #8 iron shaft where you should have used a PW shaft, your choise became "2 shafts softer than target", and 1 shaft softer than what you already use as PW shaft.

For short it would be like your own #9 iron shaft, and thats 1 shaft softer, not one shaft stronger like we seek here.

So, for FULL flex models we go upp a full flex and use the #8
For half flex models, we go up half a flex and use the PW

Both options sends us to the GW slot for shaft flex, so when we have both options like 6.0 to 6.5 in wedge, or 6.0 to 7.0 in wedge, it becomes a WEIGHT question. In "my book" those 5 grams there is in half flex models is "perfect", since we go descending wgt into wedges anyway, so thats the option that keeps wedges in the same area as irons shaft wgt the best.

The wgt aspect between those options
Since a full flex stronger (6.0 to 7.0) has 10 grams higher uncut wgt, it seems like a huge jump, but its not.

If we use the LOB wedge as example (see page 1, we go descending wgt intoi wedges for details), we loose about 5 grams NET CUT shaft wgt from #9 to LOB if we used the same shaft all the way.

That means with 5 grams higher start wgt like 6.0 to 6.5, we will only have a slightly higher NET shaft wgt for GW with about 3.5 grams, and about 2.5 gram plus for the SW and plus 1.5 grams for the LOB

If we used 7.0, it will NOT be plus 5 grams, because we soft stepp it 2x, and that gives us a loss of about 3.5 grams. That means NET cut wgt difference in using a 6.5 PW shaft, vs a 7.0 #8 iron shaft is only about 1.5 grams.
(simplified for the sake of example)

EXAMPLE for NET CUT WGT
- 6.0 IRONS about 110 grams
- 6.5 PW for GW = 113.5 grams (Option is tip trimmed 6.0 PW = 108 grams)
- 6.5 PW for SW = 112.5 grams
- 6.5 PW for LW = 111.5 grams

vs
- 6.0 IRONS about 110 grams
- 7.0 #8 for GW = 115 grams
- 7.0 #8 for SW = 114 grams
- 7.0 #8 for LW = 113 grams

The DG S300 or X100 "all the way" looks like this as compare
S300/X100 Irons 120 grams
#9 for GW = 117 grams
#9 for SW = 116 grams
#9 for LW = 115 grams

If we used S400 wedge shafts, it will still be descending wgt like this
S300/X100 Irons 120 grams
S400 #9 for GW = 119 grams 
S400 #9 for SW = 118 grams
S400 #9 for LW = 117 grams

The S300 player who uses X100#8 as wedge shaft, has a set up that looks like this: (we go SS1 for wgt loss = about 1.7 grams so we use 1.5)

S300 Irons 120 grams
X100 #8 for GW 115.5 grams
X100 #8 for SW 114.5 grams
X100 #8 for LW 113.5 grams

PS the weight drop difference PW to GW is a question of what shaft thats the shortest and stiffest. When we use DG its the #9, while in PX its the PW, so in DG we go SS1 MORE = loosing wgt of 0.5 inch more in DG from 9 to GW vs PX

Edited February 16, 2023 by Howard_Jones

[dbornack]

OK, so can someone that's NOT Howard answer this for me, since I don't think my iron shafts go up in flex.

 

I play MP20s, 3-PW, $-Taper 130 X, hard-stepped, +1".

 

I play only 54 and 60 in utility wedges.  What am I looking at here?  Typically since I don't make full swings with the utility wedges, I'd go with S400s hard-stepped for feel reasons, and the fact that I don't make full swings usually.

 

Based on my loose understanding of this thread/concept, I'd want to go firmer than irons.  So I could triple hard-step the KBS shafts maybe?  Or just go DG X7? 

 

Thanks in advance.

[Howard_Jones]

30 minutes ago, dbornack said:

OK, so can someone that's NOT Howard answer this for me, since I don't think my iron shafts go up in flex.

 

I play MP20s, 3-PW, $-Taper 130 X, hard-stepped, +1".

 

I play only 54 and 60 in utility wedges.  What am I looking at here?  Typically since I don't make full swings with the utility wedges, I'd go with S400s hard-stepped for feel reasons, and the fact that I don't make full swings usually.

 

Based on my loose understanding of this thread/concept, I'd want to go firmer than irons.  So I could triple hard-step the KBS shafts maybe?  Or just go DG X7? 

 

Thanks in advance.

We CANT hard stepp a iron shaft into wedges....
If the #9 is the shortest like it is for DG and S taper, its also the strongest, so used as PW its SS1, as GW its SS2 etc.

Your iron set is NOT hard stepped all the way since a 37.5" #9 is the strongest, and thats used as #8 iron shaft in your set. Then your #9 is "strait in", and your PW is already SS1 vs your irons.

There is no X+ or TX flex options in S taper, so TIP TRIM of the shafts you have is your option.

That means you need a ream job of the heads to 0.370 with a hand reamer, then you can tip trim your shafts from #9 if you like, or start at what ever point you want. We still talk TAPER tip and constant wgt shafts, so you shall NOT change shaft model to descending wgt 0.370".

The ream job is needed because we will cut of the taper part of the shaft using tip trim, and that section is only 6/8" long, then the tip on MOST but not all, is a strait 0.370 section to first step or to where the taper on stepless shafts starts

4/8 to 5/8" tip trim for a TAPER tip shaft for each shaft shorter/stronger.

The clue is simply, "go stronger" than "standard", and standard is softstepped up to 4 times when we are at the LOB wedge. Now you can "dial back" as you like by using tip trim.

My "standard" suggestion is to have the same flex progression from #3 to GW since thats the FULL swing clubs for most of us.

Then we use the shaft we picked for GW, also for the SAND and LOB
That makes the Sand wedge SS1 and the LOB wedge SS2 + the softening we get from the typical + 3 SWP from irons to wedge.

The question for YOU is how does the PW feel and works now? its SS1
It might be a idea to tip trim it 1 club stronger, then go 2 shafts stronger for the GW, and use that 2 shafts (1.0 tip trim) also for SW and LW

Your set will then look like this
#3 to #8 = Hard stepped 1X
#9 Strait in
PW Strait in due to 4/8" tip trim
GW Strait in due to 8/8" tip trim
SW = SS1 + the flex loss from higher SW
LW = SS2 + the flex loss from higher SW

Soft stepped 1 X = 4+ CPM in constant WGT shafts
1 SWP = 1 CPM

The effect for flex by adding 4 SWP is the same as Soft stepped 1x

Edited February 16, 2023 by Howard_Jones

[dbornack]

2 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

We CANT hard stepp a iron shaft into wedges....
If the #9 is the shortest like it is for DG and S taper, its also the strongest, so used as PW its SS1, as GW its SS2 etc.

Your iron set is NOT hard stepped all the way since a 37.5" #9 is the strongest, and thats used as #8 iron shaft in your set. Then your #9 is "strait in", and your PW is already SS1 vs your irons.

The is no TX flex options in S taper, so TIP TRIM of the shafts you have is your option.
That means you need a ream job of the heads to 0.370 with a hand reamer, then you can tip trim your shafts from #9 if you like, or start at what ever point you want.

4/8 to 5/8" tip trim for each shaft shorter.

The clue is simply, "go stronger" than "standard", and standard is softstepped up to 4 times when we are at the LOB wedge. Now you can "dial" back as you like by using tip trim

 

Oh wow, good point about my PW not even being hard-stepped.

 

Thanks so much, makes sense now.  Also, thanks for your attention - was trying to give you a break if someone else knew 😉

[Howard_Jones]

10 hours ago, meanttodothat said:

I didn't see this specifically asked hope I'm not repeating if its already been answered.

 

I'm building a set now. 60gr graphite's in regular for my 6I-Pw. Was planning on 8 iron spinner for my GW, 52, and 56 using the same model shaft in a 70gr stiff.

 

should the gap wedge be matching my irons or should I do like I mentioned and do the spinner in those 3 wedges?

Thats all up to you for how you want it to be or play
I can only assume that your shaft model is DESCENDING wgt, and for most but not all models, tip trim stops at the PW. The GW will then be SS1 unless we tip trim for 1 club stronger (0.5") 1 club stronger, so if you wants to use the 60 gram iron shafts for GW, make sure its tip trimmed if lower launch and higher spin is wanted in that club.