Spinner shafts for wedges by Howard Jones - The #8 iron spinner trick

[Howard_Jones]

13 hours ago, 62@Oakmont said:

 

The best you are going to be able to do in your scenario is get the X7 #9/PW shaft (the strongest shaft in the set) and then tip trim per Howard's recommendations in his original post.  Getting the #8 shaft and tip trimming it isn't going to get you where you want to go... it would still be too soft even with the tip trim.

THIS ....use DG X7 #9 strait in, or even tip trimmed 3/8"
(using tip trimmed #8 gives you shaft stronger than #8. but softer than #9, and we dont have to walk over the river to find water, so just use #9 iron shafts, since thats the strongest option you got)

Edited October 1, 2022 by Howard_Jones

[Howard_Jones]

On 9/29/2022 at 4:26 PM, dlow206 said:

im a big fan of the concept and now just got fitted into different iron shafts so figuring out what to do in wedge shafts.

 

i got fitted into DG 95 Stiff. i can't find anything about the profile of the shaft besides its "high/high" and my assumption is that its only similarity to other DG shafts is in name only. 

 

there is no one flex up in DG 95. there is a DG 105, would i pick the double soft stepped X shaft from there? i don't know if there is any similarity in shaft profile between DG 95 and 105 for it to make sense. @Howard_Jones

 

EDIT: had to search hard to find the below. its the best info i could find that reveals anything about the DG 95 shafts at all. nothing from Russ exists. 

 

 

Seems like 105 R - PW shaft can be tried for wedge when playing 95 S in irons.

319 vs 312 as butt CPM compared to 95-S, and we can assume 105 R has a lower launching flight pattern to start with.

To me this looks almost like "half flexes" (a tad stronger only), so 105 R, could just as well have been called 95 S+, For "half flexes" we say 5 grams = 5 CPM, and that goes for most other shafts  with the same or similar step pattern. Here we have 7 CPM, so i would say it looks as a good option.

Edited October 1, 2022 by Howard_Jones

[Pepperturbo]

15 hours ago, dlow206 said:

Yes but i believe dg 105 r flex are stiffer than dg 95 s flex. 

Just heavier, flex wise, they shouldn't be stiffer.  I could be wrong, but 105 X - 8 iron shafts.  Hopefully, Howard will chime in with the exact answer.

[dlow206]

1 hour ago, Pepperturbo said:

Just heavier, flex wise, they shouldn't be stiffer.  I could be wrong, but 105 X - 8 iron shafts.  Hopefully, Howard will chime in with the exact answer.

Howard chimed in one post above. The DG 95 are “DG” really in name only. They are a high/high pretty soft shaft. The 105 is closer to the classic DG but with a softer butt.

 

the dg 105 X100 8 iron is like three flexes stronger than the dg95 stiff wedge shaft.

Edited October 1, 2022 by dlow206

[dlow206]

11 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

 

Seems like 105 R - PW shaft can be tried for wedge when playing 95 S in irons.

319 vs 312 as butt CPM compared to 95-S, and we can assume 105 R has a lower launching flight pattern to start with.

To me this looks almost like "half flexes" (a tad stronger only), so 105 R, could just as well have been called 95 S+, For "half flexes" we say 5 grams = 5 CPM, and that goes for most other shafts  with the same or similar step pattern. Here we have 7 CPM, so i would say it looks as a good option.

Thanks again Howard as always. This aligned with my thinking. 

[Howard_Jones]

12 hours ago, dlow206 said:

Thanks again Howard as always. This aligned with my thinking. 

if you go that way, please tell us how that worked out. Paper specs is one thing, real life might be different

Edited October 2, 2022 by Howard_Jones

[iamthebeard]

This thread has made my head spin (pun intended) many times over. First, big thanks to Howard for providing a wealth of knowledge to a bunch of us. 

 

Wanted to give this a shot in my own set. playing modus 105s in my irons. added a 105x(pw shaft) to my gap wedge and loved the feel it provided. decided go with a 120x 8iron shaft to try and my 60 and it just didn't feel the same or similar to my 125wv that Ive had a longtime affinity for in my 60. 

 

Curious where I went wrong 

 

 

[dlow206]

2 hours ago, iamthebeard said:

This thread has made my head spin (pun intended) many times over. First, big thanks to Howard for providing a wealth of knowledge to a bunch of us. 

 

Wanted to give this a shot in my own set. playing modus 105s in my irons. added a 105x(pw shaft) to my gap wedge and loved the feel it provided. decided go with a 120x 8iron shaft to try and my 60 and it just didn't feel the same or similar to my 125wv that Ive had a longtime affinity for in my 60. 

 

Curious where I went wrong 

 

 

Modus 120 not even close to the same profile as 105. Modus 120 is the special snowflake in the Nippon line up. 

 

[dlow206]

4 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

if you that way, please tell us how that worked out. Paper specs is one thing, real life might be different

 

I just checked some US retail sites and there is no actual standalone wedge shaft in the DG 105. Looking at other portions of the Japanese website, it doesn't seem like there is a standalone wedge shaft. I wonder if those specs are showing if you butt cut the 9 iron shaft to pitching wedge length, that is the stated CPM?

[beluga99]

1 hour ago, dlow206 said:

Modus 120 not even close to the same profile as 105. Modus 120 is the special snowflake in the Nippon line up. 

 

Little biased as I have the 120s in my irons, but after reading this thread, I got a new 51 degree wedge with the 8 iron xflex shaft.  Absolutely love it!  Feels very controllable and has lowered the flight with a little more spin.  Highly recommended.

[Howard_Jones]

4 hours ago, dlow206 said:

 

I just checked some US retail sites and there is no actual standalone wedge shaft in the DG 105. Looking at other portions of the Japanese website, it doesn't seem like there is a standalone wedge shaft. I wonder if those specs are showing if you butt cut the 9 iron shaft to pitching wedge length, that is the stated CPM?

For DG 105, Its a dedicated PW shaft. (36.50")
Japan measured specs is the same as what i have in my DB, so ive merged those numbers to one chart.

Edited October 2, 2022 by Howard_Jones

[dlow206]

6 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

For DG 105, Its a dedicated PW shaft. (36.50")
Japan measured specs is the same as what i have in my DB, so ive merged those numbers to one chart.

Thanks, since i cant find a 105 pw shaft in the US, should i try the dg105 S200 7 iron shaft based on cpm in the table?

[Howard_Jones]

1 hour ago, dlow206 said:

Thanks, since i cant find a 105 pw shaft in the US, should i try the dg105 S200 7 iron shaft based on cpm in the table?

Thats a option, yes

[iamthebeard]

14 hours ago, dlow206 said:

Modus 120 not even close to the same profile as 105. Modus 120 is the special snowflake in the Nippon line up. 

 

Good point. Have always play either an DGs400 or the Modus 125wvs in my 54/60 so was trying to get to similar weight that I've grown used to. 

[Hack Daddy]

I'm going to throw a dark horse in this mix...

 

Go 10g lighter and one flex weaker. 

 

😲

[Howard_Jones]

17 minutes ago, Hack Daddy said:

I'm going to throw a dark horse in this mix...

 

Go 10g lighter and one flex weaker. 

 

😲

that want take ball-flight down and add spin, and thats what this tread is all about, not wedge shafts in general

[ironJosh]

Unfortunately I will already be starting likely from X7's 1/2" longer in my new set of irons so my only option is to tip trim. It has me wondering what it would look like... I am being fitted at cool clubs in a month so I need to give them clear instructions. I will be having 4 matching non-set wedges (most likely T22, as it seems like it has the highest vcog, and good high bounce options to keep the strike a little lower in the face). I play all my wedges at the same length (36") at the moment with x100 shafts, and its no wonder my lob wedge gets lost in space (m grind 60). Is playing all my wedges the same length now going to be now out of the question so that I can get flex uniformity through my set? Can anyone weigh in on the tip trimming I should be doing? It obviously depends on my irons but lets just say I go with 223's and T22's. If i graduate my tip trims, what might that look like? Are there any other shaft options that would work for me? Any TX flex parallel shafts long enough?

Edited October 3, 2022 by ironJosh

[Howard_Jones]

19 minutes ago, ironJosh said:

Unfortunately I will already be starting likely from X7's 1/2" longer in my new set of irons so my only option is to tip trim. It has me wondering what it would look like... I am being fitted at cool clubs in a month so I need to give them clear instructions. I will be having 4 matching non-set wedges (most likely T22, as it seems like it has the highest vcog, and good high bounce options to keep the strike a little lower in the face). I play all my wedges at the same length (36") at the moment with x100 shafts, and its no wonder my lob wedge gets lost in space (m grind 60). Is playing all my wedges the same length now going to be now out of the question so that I can get flex uniformity through my set? Can anyone weigh in on the tip trimming I should be doing? It obviously depends on my irons but lets just say I go with 223's and T22's. If i graduate my tip trims, what might that look like? Are there any other shaft options that would work for me? Any TX flex parallel shafts long enough?

Like written on page #1, anything more than 3/8" tip trim, often makes a need for a ream job on the hosel. Playing all wedges to the same length might cause some head wgt issues, wedges is not delivered with a head weight thats the same for all, just like iron heads, they go progressive up to be made progressive shorter. So it boils down to what play length for all, and what head wgt works the best for you on that play length. some heads might need added weight, others a hosel drill job to remove weight.

[tfarmer]

Just picking up on this concept and have a question.  I’m currently using the Nippon Modus 115S in my irons that are 118.5 grams and 1.6 torque.  In my GW, SW, and LW I have the Nippon Modus 115 Wedge shaft that are 122 grams and 1.5 torque.  Is this close to the same thing as your the concept?

[Howard_Jones]

12 hours ago, tfarmer said:

Just picking up on this concept and have a question.  I’m currently using the Nippon Modus 115S in my irons that are 118.5 grams and 1.6 torque.  In my GW, SW, and LW I have the Nippon Modus 115 Wedge shaft that are 122 grams and 1.5 torque.  Is this close to the same thing as your the concept?

I have no clue about how that Modus wedge shaft is made, i never saw it, so you would have to ask Nippon how that shaft is, compared to a Modus 115 #8 iron X flex, since thats the shaft that would be suggested as wedge shaft here.

[dlow206]

On 10/1/2022 at 3:12 PM, Howard_Jones said:

if you go that way, please tell us how that worked out. Paper specs is one thing, real life might be different

 

i'm going back to the drawing board. i was talking to True Temper and they said the Japanese version is a different shaft. For example, they said the Japan version the 4 iron is 38" whereas the 4 iron in the US is 39.5". 

[third-times-a-charm]

Is anyone doing this with MMTs? They go from S to TX with no X.

Edited October 23, 2022 by third-times-a-charm

[maximusppl]

PX 6.0 in 5-GW. If I use some left over PX 6.5 8iron shafts in the 54 and 60, do I tip trim 3/8 or no? Or did i screw myself by using the 8iron shaft in half flex? 😞 

Edited November 26, 2022 by maximusppl

[Howard_Jones]

3 hours ago, maximusppl said:

PX 6.0 in 5-GW. If I use some left over PX 6.5 8iron shafts in the 54 and 60, do I tip trim 3/8 or no? Or did i screw myself by using the 8iron shaft in half flex? 😞 

If you want the max out of them, you will have to tip trim them since they start out to the softer side

[maximusppl]

10 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

If you want the max out of them, you will have to tip trim them since they start out to the softer side

Thank you...so I am not dead in the water using half flex in 8iron form. Will try it out. 

[Shilgy]

After reading this thread and Howard’s replies backwards and forwards I think I have this right….with perhaps an option or two.

 

Currently playing Nippon Modus 120 in stiff

Gap wedge would be the same shaft in X straight in just butt cut to length?

 

SW and Lob same shaft with 3/8” tip trim then butt cut?

 

Or would SW be an X 9 iron shaft straight in and Lob use the PW X straight in?

 

Thank you!

[Howard_Jones]

3 hours ago, Shilgy said:

After reading this thread and Howard’s replies backwards and forwards I think I have this right….with perhaps an option or two.

 

Currently playing Nippon Modus 120 in stiff

Gap wedge would be the same shaft in X straight in just butt cut to length?

 

SW and Lob same shaft with 3/8” tip trim then butt cut?

 

Or would SW be an X 9 iron shaft straight in and Lob use the PW X straight in?

 

Thank you!

Tip trim only when you dont have other option
FULL flex models (R, S, X) - use 1 full flex up and #8 as GW
HALF flex models (R+,S+,X+ ) - use 0.5 flex stronger and PW as GW

Thats the GW, now the question is, do you want to keep up flex progression, or do you want to let them go softer from that club and further?

If you want to keep up progression in a FULL flex model and uses #8 as GW, then use a #9 for SW etc...
For half flex models we already picked the PW shaft as GW, so if we want to go stronger, we need to tip trim for the next club.

i WILL NOT EXPLAIN THIS AGAIN - Those who dont get it now will be left in the dark.

[Shilgy]

1 minute ago, Howard_Jones said:

Tip trim only when you dont have other option
FULL flex models (R, S, X) - use 1 full flex up and #8 as GW
HALF flex models (R+,S+,X+ ) - use 0.5 flex stronger and PW as GW

Thats the GW, now the question is, do you want to keep up flex progression, or do you want to let them go softer from that club and further?

If you want to keep up progression in a FULL flex model and uses #8 as GW, then use a #9 for SW etc...
For half flex models we already picked the PW shaft as GW, so if we want to go stronger, we need to tip trim for the next club.

i WILL NOT EXPLAIN THIS AGAIN - Those who dont get it now will be left in the dark.

Thank you for the explanation.

[cw1209]

Thank you Howard for explaining this concept in such detail. You have been extremely patient handling all the requests for clarification. Reducing lead deflection at impact to increase spin and decrease launch angle with a wedge makes a ton of sense. Makes me laugh when I read this now:

 

[Howard_Jones]

16 minutes ago, cw1209 said:

Thank you Howard for explaining this concept in such detail. You have been extremely patient handling all the requests for clarification. Reducing lead deflection at impact to increase spin and decrease launch angle with a wedge makes a ton of sense. Makes me laugh when I read this now:

 

That text from True Temper is among the worse marketing BS i ever saw about golf shafts, they simply dont work that way for wedges, the tread we are in is all the evidence needed for that, and ive explained how this works on this forum for more than 12 years, so it aint news either.

The TT add...
What they try to tell you, is that they SOFT step a shaft (they dont PLAY it longer), and since its soft stepped, and for that reason EVEN longer than needed vs standard before we cut it down to our target play length, we loose NET shaft wgt, due to more to cut off down to play length. (SS1 is equal to 0.5" or about 1.75 grams, SS2 gives the double)

Correct enough, a soft stepped shaft will have a longer, softer, and more lively tip, but used for wedge, that CANT add spin, it will reduce it, while launch goes up, so to call that a "spinner", is misleading, and its not a good option if lower launch was wanted on top of more spin, so if thats target, follow the concept in this tread, and you get a shaft that feels right too.