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Spinner shafts for wedges by Howard Jones - The #8 iron spinner trick


Howard_Jones

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Forgive me Howard if I am wasting your time, but this is something I would like to try. However, I am not knowledgeable about club building so I want to know if I have this correct:

 

I play Ping S56 irons and Tour S wedges, which I believe are .355 taper shafts. The shafts I have are KBS Tour S flex. Looks like those shafts are also available in an S+ flex, but 9 iron is the stiffest shaft in each flex range.

 

Can I go with:

PW - S+ 9 iron straight in

GW (52°) - S+ 9 iron tip 4/8"

SW (58°) - S+ 9 iron tip 4/8" (or would X flex 9 iron straight in better)

 

Thanks in advance!

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I've done the spinner "trick" for a couple months now (TI S400 -> TI X100). Observations, flight is a touch lower, spin a touch higher. The most important change for me is that my shot variance is lower given the stiffer shaft, which has been super important. Didn't think my greenside consistency would improve so much since I didn't think the shafts deflected that much at lower speeds but I guess they do?

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53 minutes ago, AntiGooch said:

Forgive me Howard if I am wasting your time, but this is something I would like to try. However, I am not knowledgeable about club building so I want to know if I have this correct:

 

I play Ping S56 irons and Tour S wedges, which I believe are .355 taper shafts. The shafts I have are KBS Tour S flex. Looks like those shafts are also available in an S+ flex, but 9 iron is the stiffest shaft in each flex range.

 

Can I go with:

PW - S+ 9 iron straight in

GW (52°) - S+ 9 iron tip 4/8"

SW (58°) - S+ 9 iron tip 4/8" (or would X flex 9 iron straight in better)

 

Thanks in advance!


S+ is half e flex stronger only or 4 to 5 CPM, equal to "1 shaft stronger" so when #9 is the strongest, we can move half a flex and use #9 for PW....so far so good.

For the GW we got 2 options.
- The same S+ #9, now tip trimmed, but keep in mind that more than 3/8" MIGHT give insert issues (cant get it all the way down, so it happens that we need a ream job to 0.370 to get full insert, just so you are aware of that.
The other option, is going KBS Tour X flex, and the #8 just like the small chart ive posted several times.

What you do with the SAND wedge is all up to you. You might just use the the same shaft as the GW, or go one shaft stronger again  who means X flex #9. Lowest launch and highest spin will come from using a X flex #9 for the Sand wedge

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42 minutes ago, sadclevelandsports said:

I've done the spinner "trick" for a couple months now (TI S400 -> TI X100). Observations, flight is a touch lower, spin a touch higher. The most important change for me is that my shot variance is lower given the stiffer shaft, which has been super important. Didn't think my greenside consistency would improve so much since I didn't think the shafts deflected that much at lower speeds but I guess they do?

One of the most important observations ive done as a club fitter is, the closer we get to the players own "ideal" the more sensitive he gets for even the smallest changes, so what might look "over kill" or "not needed" on the paper WILL make a difference for the player. High end club making is often underestimated since many think we are splitting hairs, but thats when "magic happens" and things improve. No wedge shafts dont bend much since they are so short, but they still bend, and its those small differences from shaft to that matters here. If it is something most of us can improve, it is the short game, so why not just do it if small equipment changes can improve it for us and give us the confidence needed to improve our game?

Edited by Howard_Jones
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I had this done for my gap wedge with my set of 0211STs. I fit into the stock TT Elevate Tour S300 so it was easy with the X version. I'm very happy with it. I'm not sure I can adequately describe the performance difference between the PW and GW based upon the build, but I'm very happy hitting the gap wedge full or partial and around the greens. No complaints. My SW and LW came before my irons and they have a totally different shaft that I find happens to complement the rest of my set very well, so no need to change them. But, next time they need to get replaced I anticipate building both of them up like the GW.

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2 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:


S+ is half e flex stronger only or 4 to 5 CPM, equal to "1 shaft stronger" so when #9 is the strongest, we can move half a flex and use #9 for PW....so far so good.

For the GW we got 2 options.
- The same S+ #9, now tip trimmed, but keep in mind that more than 3/8" MIGHT give insert issues (cant get it all the way down, so it happens that we need a ream job to 0.370 to get full insert, just so you are aware of that.
The other option, is going KBS Tour X flex, and the #8 just like the small chart ive posted several times.

What you do with the SAND wedge is all up to you. You might just use the the same shaft as the GW, or go one shaft stronger again  who means X flex #9. Lowest launch and highest spin will come from using a X flex #9 for the Sand wedge

Thank you Howard - I appreciate your help! 🙂

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 2/16/2022 at 4:26 PM, Howard_Jones said:




Spinner shafts for wedges  - The #8 iron spinner trick

The topic has been hot for more than 10 years on the WRX, but no matter how many times I have explained “how too”, the same questions pops up again, so this tread is written as the full guide, and a reference for future use. The main chapters are written for CONSTANT wgt shafts. (Descending wgt has its own chapter below here)

BACKGROUND.
All of you should know by now, a set of irons shafts, has a progression for flex and deflection as we go shorter. The stiffest shaft in the shaft set is often the #9 or the PW. When we move further into wedges, we are “soft stepping” the same shaft, sometimes more than 4 times or more than a full flex before we get to the LOB wedge, due to using the same shaft combined with higher SW values. For many players that might be an issue for ball flight who might become too high, and spin too low with bad stopping power. Wedges works OPPOSITE of irons where the curve for spin turns about the loft area of the PW. For higher lofted clubs, Launch still goes up while spin goes down, and combined with soft stepping we lose a lot of spin that way.

THE #8 IRON SPINNER TRICK
The solution where we can take ball flight down, and at the same time add spin, is called “the #8 iron spinner trick”. The term has a reference to a #8 iron shaft, but its NOT the #8 iron shaft from the iron set you play, but a #8 iron shaft from A FULL FLEX STRONGER of the same shaft model. That’s the “short cut” to a shaft with a flex and deflection close to where a dedicated GW shaft in your own shaft set would have been, but since we cant buy that shaft, this is the creative solution to get it. Its all RELATIVE to what iron shafts we play, and for short it looks like this:

R flex in irons, use S flex #8 iron shafts for wedge of the same shaft model as your irons.
R+ flex in irons, use S+ flex #8 iron shafts for wedge of the same shaft model as your irons.
S flex in irons, use X flex #8 iron shafts for wedge of the same shaft model as your irons.
X flex in irons, use TX flex #8 iron shafts for wedge of the same shaft model as your irons.

OR

5.0 flex in irons, use 6.0 flex #8 iron shafts for wedge of the same shaft model as your irons.
5.5 flex in irons, use 6.5 flex #8 iron shafts for wedge of the same shaft model as your irons.
6.0 flex in irons, use 7.0 flex #8 iron shafts for wedge of the same shaft model as your irons.

ALTERNATIVE OPTIONS – TIGER STEPPING – TIP TRIM OF TAPER TIP SHAFTS.
Since the target is a shaft with a flex in the area of a dedicated GW shaft, and some players already has X flex irons, and of a model where no TX flex option exist, we have a alternative route where we simply tip trim a taper tip shaft to get the “GW shaft” we want. We now have to ask, is the #9 the shortest and stiffest and used for both #9 or PW (like Dynamic Gold), or does a dedicated PW shaft exist? That’s important to know, since our target is only “1 shaft stronger” than a dedicated PW shaft.

Tip trim of taper tips is quite normal, but our limitation is often only 3/8” before we meet insert issues in a taper tip hosel. For most, but not all shaft models that can be fixed with a ream job to 0.370, IF the actual shaft model has a strait parallel tip section above the “taper part”. The taper part of the tip itself is most often 6/8” long, so use a caliper and measure tip OD on that point, and do the same right below first step or where the main taper section of the shaft starts. If both points say 0.370 you are free to tip trim as much as you like without insert issues, but don’t forget to leave enough tip section for the summary of full insert depth, plus the height of the wanted ferrules.

HOW MUCH TIP TRIM IS NEEDED?
That question depends on if the shortest available iron shaft is the #9 or the PW. Parallel tip shafts has a normal tip trim of 4/8” or 0.5” from one shaft to the other, but in a set of Constant wgt shafts, we need 5/8” tip trim to go “1 shaft stronger”. So if the shaft set we play, has a dedicated PW shaft, we can start from a PW and tip trim it 4/8” to 5/8” to get a “GW shaft” who will be the same as “the #8 iron spinner trick”, only from a different direction. If the shortest and strongest iron shaft is the #9, we will need the double or 1.0 to 1.25” to get that “GW shaft”. This tip trim instruction is valid when se use a #9 or PW of the same model, and the same flex as our irons.

ALTERNATIVE 2 –  HALF FLEX MODELS
For some shaft models, we have “half flex option” like we see from KBS, RIFLE and Project X. By half flex we mean R to R+, or R+ to S, or S to S+, or 5.0 to 5.5, or 5.5 to 6.0. This option should be considered since many of this shaft models adds up to 10 grams shaft weight when we move a full flex, and that’s not always beneficial. A starting point for wedge that’s 5 grams higher than irons is often “just perfect”. See the chapter below – “We go descending weight into wedges.” For more info about that.

Just like the first Tiger stepping or tip trim of taper option, we need to know if the #9 or the PW is the shortest and strongest dedicated shaft option.
For “half flex models” where a dedicated PW option exist, we can use that shaft “strait in” and we have a “home run” and got the “GW shaft” we was hunting.
That means if you play R flex, use a R+ dedicated PW shaft for wedge, and if you play S flex, use a S+ PW shaft for wedge etc…
If #9 is the shortest and stiffest, we have to tip trim the “half flex stronger #9” equal to 1 shaft stronger and that’s 4 to 5/8” to become our wanted “GW shaft”.

TUNING OPTION – 3/8” TIP TRIM
In ALL cases where we either use a full flex stronger #8 iron shaft “strait in”, or use a “half flex stronger” PW shaft strait in, we MIGHT consider to tip trim the shaft 3/8” to maximize spin. This option could be used for all 4 wedges from PW to LOB wedge. For the PW is a good idea if the #9 is the shortest and strongest. That moves us closer to the dedicated PW shaft TT don’t make anymore. For the GAP wedge either as a full flex stronger #8, or a “half flex stronger PW”, it adds even more spin and takes ball flight even further down on both full shots and partials. For the SAND and LOB wedge it should be considered since those would be soft stepped anyway, since the #8 iron spinner trick only gave us a shaft in the area as a GW shaft, and when we do like we most often does, goes 2 to 3 SW points UP from GW to SW and LOB, a tip trim of 3/8” actually only compensate for the added head weight, so its no reason to worry about feel here, the tip trimmed SW and SW will not play stronger than your GW if that GW is a #8 iron spinner “strait in”.

GRAPHITE SHAFTS
Its no difference between using steel or graphite shafts here, the same rules applies. A full flex stronger and the #8, or half a flex stronger and the PW.

DESCENDING WEIGHT MODELS
For descending wgt models where we tip trim our self, simply tip trim “like normal” for each club shorter. Again, the rules ONLY apply if you play the same models in irons, so to use descending wgt shafts for wedges, it has to be descending wgt shafts of THAT model in your irons too. For descending weight models, you can either use the same shaft flex as irons and simply tip trim for GAP. If tip trim instructions is like it is for DG, where #9 is 4.0 and PW is 4.25” IGNORE that, and use 4.50” for PW and 5.0” for GW. Before you start tip trimming, make sure there is tip section enough left for full insert plus the height of the ferrule. You can also use a full flex stronger, and use tip trim instructions for a #8 iron.

PRECAUSIONS AND LIMITATIONS.
All options above is described ONLY for THE SAME MODEL SERIES as we use for irons. Since there is NO common standards for flex, this flex letters is NOT valid as compare between different shaft models. its no “short cuts” if the plan is to mix different shaft models. The only way to tell is either to have advanced club maker measure it all out, or by trial and error. DO NOT ASK ME FOR HELP WITH THAT – ive sold all club maker equipment and shafts, so I cant do it for you. The same limitation goes for mixing Constant wgt and Descending wgt models, even with the same model’s name. Dynamic Gold Tapers and Dynamic Gold Parallel descending wgt is NOT the same shaft, so we cant use the short cuts or methods described above. The same goes for KBS taper and parallels, they CANT be mixed using the suggestions above. The only time we can mix Tapers and Parallels is when both is constant wgt, or both is Descending weight of the same shaft model.

WE GO DESCENDING WEIGHT INTO WEDGES – 5 GRAMS HIGHER START WEIGHT IS BENEFICIAL
Many players is not aware of this. Even if we use the same constant wgt shaft models as our irons like DG S300 all the way to LOB, we go descending weight from our PW since the #9 is the shortest and strongest shaft in the iron set for Dynamic Gold. For sets where the PW is the shortest dedicated shaft, we go descending wgt from GW. To show you how that works, and how much we lose, Im using DG S300 / X100 as example.

Wedges is normally 2/8” shorter pr. club, and wedges most often has a BBGM (Bottom of Bore to Ground Measurement) that’s at least 3/8” higher than iron. That means we loose shaft wgt equal to that amounts as extra butt cut to get down to target play length. A DG S300 or X100 #9 iron shaft is 130 grams / 37.00” = 3.51 grams pr inch /8 = 0.44 grams for each 1/8”. That means from #9 to PW we loose 0.88 or 0.9 grams of shaft weight, and when we go further to the GW, we also loose 3 x 1/8” = 1.3 grams from a Higher BBGM (at least, some wedges even more), and as a sum that’s 3.1 grams down from #9 to GW, and another 0.9 or 4.0 grams down for the SAND, and 4.9 grams down for the LOB.

That’s why a tad higher shaft weight as starting point for wedge is nice. At least make sure you weight sort the shafts to be used before you choose what shaft to be used for what, so you can use shaft weight tolerances to even this out as best as it can be done. This also means if you have a shaft model where its 10 grams up for a full flex, it will shrink to only 5 grams for the LOB wedge due to this “descending wgt” system we are forced into if we like it or not.

HOW MUCH WILL LAUNCH AND SPIN CHANGE?
That’s “personal” and not fixed values, but launch will go down, and spin will go up, compared to using the #9 or PW shaft from the iron set all the way. I never made any side by side tests with “dedicated wedge shafts” that’s on the marked today, so im not able to tell how this will be compared to those, but during those 12 years ive been advocating the #8 iron spinner trick here on Golfwrx, It must be a few thousand that has followed my advices, and I cant remember anyone that was disappointed. If you wants to read some player feedback from trying this out, its many treads on this forum about it, and the 2 largest treads is probably this 2 im linking to below.

 

 



Our fellow WRX tech forum member Adam C – Aka the mobile club maker has made a video with a compare of DG S400 #9 iron shaft vs DG X100 #8 iron shaft.
 


If the MODS of the forum wants to use this as a article on WRX, feel free to do so. This should be available for all WRX readers, and many never visit the tech forum where this subject has been up for debate for more than 10 years.

 

Howard, I cannot find what 8i shaft I would use if I have X100 TI in my irons.  is there a TX100?  I have googled and cannot find anything stiffer than X100 TI?  Also my wedges have .370 hosels, which may also present an issue.  I don't think DG comes with .370 options? 

My 4-PW is X100 TI.  I have 3 wedge heads, with .370 parallel hosel.  What shaft could I use to give me the lower flight spinner trick?  I cannot find a DG shaft that is a full flex stronger than  an X100 TI, nor with .370 tip.

What about using a PX shaft, like a PX 7.0 .370 tip, 8i shaft.  How would I trim this?  Tip trim to 8i flex (3,5") and then butt trim to wedge length?  Or can you suggest another brand of shaft that has similar feel to X100, that has .370 shaft?

 

Edited by jjinsa

Mizuno ST-Z, Kurokage XT 60 TX

Cobra Radspeed Tour 17,5d, Kurokage XM 80  TX

Titleist TS3 Tour Issue, Aldila 2KNV Blue 90 TX

Ping S56, DGX100

Cobra MiM wedges 50, 54, 58, DG S400

Cleveland Classic No1 Putter

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1 hour ago, jjinsa said:

 

Howard, I cannot find what 8i shaft I would use if I have X100 TI in my irons.  is there a TX100?  I have googled and cannot find anything stiffer than X100 TI?  Also my wedges have .370 hosels, which may also present an issue.  I don't think DG comes with .370 options? 

My 4-PW is X100 TI.  I have 3 wedge heads, with .370 parallel hosel.  What shaft could I use to give me the lower flight spinner trick?  I cannot find a DG shaft that is a full flex stronger than  an X100 TI, nor with .370 tip.

What about using a PX shaft, like a PX 7.0 .370 tip, 8i shaft.  How would I trim this?  Tip trim to 8i flex (3,5") and then butt trim to wedge length?  Or can you suggest another brand of shaft that has similar feel to X100, that has .370 shaft?

 

Dynamic Gold X7 is TX flex. To use them in a 0.370 hosel, use a brass shim made for that. 

https://www.truetempersports.com/en-us/golf/golf/steel-iron-shafts/dynamic-gold-steel-shafts/dynamic-gold-x7.html

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2 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

Dynamic Gold X7 is TX flex. To use them in a 0.370 hosel, use a brass shim made for that. 

https://www.truetempersports.com/en-us/golf/golf/steel-iron-shafts/dynamic-gold-steel-shafts/dynamic-gold-x7.html


Thanks Howard.  so for X100, it is fine to use the 8i X7? not sure if it is a full flex higher or not, so 8i or 9i?  
 

have you used any Shims off Amazon that you can recommend. 

Mizuno ST-Z, Kurokage XT 60 TX

Cobra Radspeed Tour 17,5d, Kurokage XM 80  TX

Titleist TS3 Tour Issue, Aldila 2KNV Blue 90 TX

Ping S56, DGX100

Cobra MiM wedges 50, 54, 58, DG S400

Cleveland Classic No1 Putter

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1 hour ago, jjinsa said:


Thanks Howard.  so for X100, it is fine to use the 8i X7? not sure if it is a full flex higher or not, so 8i or 9i?  
 

have you used any Shims off Amazon that you can recommend. 

X7 is a full flex stronger than X100 and is mentionet tons of times in this tread.  No i never used anything from amazon. 

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=golf+brass+shim+0.355+to+0.370&oq=golf+brass+shim+0.355+to+0.370&aqs=chrome..69i57.14765j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

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On 5/27/2022 at 9:03 PM, Ty-Webb said:

You're going to tip an X7? Report back... I am after some X7's right now however only going to do a butt trim to desired length. Trimming an 8iron down bring up another question I haven't seen asked in here yet.. how much will 4-5 inches of trim going to change the weight of the shaft? 

All built up including my irons.  My build turned out great they feel fantastic.  As you can see from the build sheet I tipped a set of X100 Onyx shafts 3/8" for both the 58* & 54* and tipped the X7 Wedge/9 shaft 3/8" for the 49* wedge, they all feel great and I still get spin on chips and pitches around the green.  I also tipped the PW 1/4" to account for the higher head weight than the 9 iron, I didn't go the full 3/8".... chickened out but it still feels really stable which was my goal for this build.  the one thing I will add is that I built the  entire wedge and irons to a high swing weight so this my play into the feel as it would soften the shafts slightly

 

843640086_BuildSheet.jpg.561aca1a892d6011d9c6194deb7a562c.jpg 

1936726215_Clubswithbuildsheet.jpg.84a14499c30419341e6752df95b1b11b.jpg

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PXG 0311 7.5* (set to 6.75*) w/ Mitsubishi Diamana DF 70TX Tipped 0.75" @ 45.25"

TM Original One Mini Driver 13* (set at 11.5*) w/ Mitsubishi Diamana BF 80TX Tipped 1.5" @ 43"
Srixon U45 18* w/ N.S. Pro Modus3 GOST Tour X @ 39.5"
Callaway UW 21* w/ Aldila VS Proto 95X Tipped 1.75" @ 41" / Srixon U45 23* w/ Aldila RIP Tour SLT 115 Tour X @ 38.5"

Cobra KING Tour with MIM w/ PX LS 7.0 5-PW / Srixon Z745 5-PW w/ DG TI X7's (PW Tipped 1/4")
Mizuno T22 Denim Copper 50*, 55* & 60* w/ PX LS 7.0 Tipped 3/8" D2, D3 & D5

Putter: Evnroll ER2v

 

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Can this technique be used for graphite shafts?  I play Accra 80i in my irons.  Would tipping a shaft to an 8i stiff flex and then butt trim to wedge length work?

Woods: Callaway Rogue ST Max LS 9*, Ventus Blue 6S / TM Stealth Plus+, 15*, MCA Diamana Thump 75S
Hybrid: PXG 0317 X Proto 3H & 4H, Ventus Blue 7S

Irons: Takomo IRON 101, 5-PW, Accra T90i S
Wedges: Cleveland CBX ZipCore  48* Accra T90i S, 53* & 58*, Accra T100i S
Putter: Evnroll ER 1.2, Tour KBS GPS, 33",
 SuperStroke MidSlim 2.0
Ball: Maxfli Tour
Bag/Cart: '20 Nike Air Hybrid 2 / Clicgear 4.0 / Alphard Club Booster V2 / V2 Swivel Kit
Accessories: Arccos 360 / Garmin G80 / Nikon Coolshot Pro Stabilized

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On 6/4/2022 at 9:04 AM, Howard_Jones said:

One of the most important observations ive done as a club fitter is, the closer we get to the players own "ideal" the more sensitive he gets for even the smallest changes, so what might look "over kill" or "not needed" on the paper WILL make a difference for the player.


Interesting that you say that, I observed something very similar just in my own fitting when it came to grip size and mentioned it in a thread earlier this month. When it comes to building up grips I become super sensitive and picky when it gets my "ideal" to the point I can pick out single wraps or half wraps of tape difference in size, but once removed from my ideal size I definitely notice less. 

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Titleist TSi3 9* Tensei AV White 65TX 2.0 // Taylormade SIM 10.5* Ventus TR Blue 6TX
Taylormade Stealth+ 16* Ventus Black 8x // Taylormade SIM Ti V2 16.5* Ventus TR Blue 7X
Callaway Apex UW 19* Ventus Black 8x // Srixon ZX Utility MKII 20* Nippon GOST Hybrid Tour X
Callaway X-Forged Single♦️  22* Nippon GOST Hybrid Tour X 
Bridgestone 
J40 DPC 4i-7i 24*- 35* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Bridgestone J40 CB 8i-PW 39*- 48* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0

Taylormade Milled Grind Raw 54* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Vokey SM6 58* Oil Can Low Bounce K-Grind Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Scotty Cameron Newport Tour Red Dot || Taylormade Spider X Navy Slant

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On 6/23/2022 at 3:18 PM, dbdors said:

Can this technique be used for graphite shafts?  I play Accra 80i in my irons.  Would tipping a shaft to an 8i stiff flex and then butt trim to wedge length work?


From page 1.

image.png.be5e5b517fb1bbdcbc5c88164554fc4e.png

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9 hours ago, goose1002 said:

Is it possible to build a 6-pw with spinner shafts?  My wedges 46, 50 and 54 are my best feeling, performing clubs that in my opinion generate best ball flight and spin.  


That depends on flex, but that would be 1 full flex stronger installed as SS3, but dont expect the SET to work like it does in Wedges. The explanation for thát is on page 1. 


image.png.7d3a0b2aef4750e6d8669ff950edbe55.png

 

 

 

 

Edited by Howard_Jones

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9 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:


From page 1.

image.png.be5e5b517fb1bbdcbc5c88164554fc4e.png

Thank you.

Woods: Callaway Rogue ST Max LS 9*, Ventus Blue 6S / TM Stealth Plus+, 15*, MCA Diamana Thump 75S
Hybrid: PXG 0317 X Proto 3H & 4H, Ventus Blue 7S

Irons: Takomo IRON 101, 5-PW, Accra T90i S
Wedges: Cleveland CBX ZipCore  48* Accra T90i S, 53* & 58*, Accra T100i S
Putter: Evnroll ER 1.2, Tour KBS GPS, 33",
 SuperStroke MidSlim 2.0
Ball: Maxfli Tour
Bag/Cart: '20 Nike Air Hybrid 2 / Clicgear 4.0 / Alphard Club Booster V2 / V2 Swivel Kit
Accessories: Arccos 360 / Garmin G80 / Nikon Coolshot Pro Stabilized

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  • 1 month later...

@Howard_Jones Hey Howard first of all I want to say thanks for all your help.
I have cut down an 8 iron dg x100 shaft for my sand wedge and I did initial weighting/testing before putting it together and I was getting a swing weight of D8/9. I hope to get it to D6

 

I have a SM9 56* head weighing: 303g
Cut down x100 shaft length 33.5/8" weighing: 115g

Ferrule weighing: 2g
Golf pride tour velvet weighing: 51.5g

Reading your other post I assume my only choice is to drill into the hosel? And question for the other people in here; do you play a SW D8/9? Is it too strong?

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On 6/5/2022 at 2:35 AM, AntiGooch said:

Thank you Howard - I appreciate your help! 🙂

I skipped the S+ and went straight into the 130 X for the C-taper and it feels very good for me.

Keep in mind they do become physically heavier, unless you're removing the wight port to lighten them up a bit.

I took the 8 iron shaft and kept them all to GW length.

 

greenside chipping produces a lot of spin and gives more confidence you can apply a bit more speed through the ball in my experience. Using a good ball will also improve the spin further.

 

Your resuts and feel may vary 🙂 

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TM Mini Brnr 9.5* Attas 6Rockstar 7X

TM Mini Brnr 11* Oban Kiyoshi Red O5 

Callaway Rogue Max 5W Oban Kiyoshi Purple O4

Edel SMS Pro 5-P, One Length (8i) Fujikura TRAVIL 115 X

RC SG-10 wedges 50, 54, 58, 62 One Length (PW) Fujikura TRAVIL 115 X

All sorts of Toulon blade putters.

XXIO premium ball.

 

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On 8/3/2022 at 7:16 PM, Ryan Kim said:

And question for the other people in here; do you play a SW D8/9? Is it too strong?

It's purely personal preference but I prefer heavier wedges. I prefer to feel the clubhead from start to finish. When building wedges I strive for D9-E1. My current 8-P are D9 because they are my primary chipping tools and again, I prefer the feel of the clubhead (even on chips) throughout the shot. Am I losing a few yards on full shots, maybe. But with short irons it's more about feel and consistency, at least to me.

 

The swingweights for my current build:

 

60 - E1

55 - E0

50 - E0

P  - D9

9  - D9

8  - D9

  • Like 1

 

 

The answer to better golf is work your butt off and learn how to hit it better, farther, and make more putts.

 

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On 8/4/2022 at 2:16 AM, Ryan Kim said:

@Howard_Jones Hey Howard first of all I want to say thanks for all your help.
I have cut down an 8 iron dg x100 shaft for my sand wedge and I did initial weighting/testing before putting it together and I was getting a swing weight of D8/9. I hope to get it to D6

 

I have a SM9 56* head weighing: 303g
Cut down x100 shaft length 33.5/8" weighing: 115g

Ferrule weighing: 2g
Golf pride tour velvet weighing: 51.5g

Reading your other post I assume my only choice is to drill into the hosel? And question for the other people in here; do you play a SW D8/9? Is it too strong?

Head wgt reduction / hosel drilling is my suggestion in your case yes

DO NOT SEND PMs WITH CLUB TECH QUESTIONS - USE THE PUBLIC FORUM.

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Thank you Howard!
Reporting back after the build:

 

[Built it myself wouldn't trust some places to do this - Sm9 with 8iron DG x100. Shaft cut on the butt end for overall club length 35.25". Golf pride tour velvet with gradual masking tape under it to undo the taper. 2" + 4" + 6")]

The SW build came out with a higher swing weight (D7/8 - I wanted D5/6) but I just tested it out anyways and wanted to say this is probably the best wedge for my game. I could feel the weight throughout the swing whether it was a 3/4 swing, 1/2 swing, 1/4 chip. (I barely used it for a full swing) The flight is definitely lower and predictable. I was picking spots where to land it and with proper form it was going exactly where I wanted it. I'm a high handicap golfer and my miss hits weren't too bad no surprising skulls. But golf is golf and had one that I wish I could redo.

Ball checked very well. I could even see it slow down from my angle. Nothing too crazy like PGA pros but it checked better than my stock Mack Daddy 4. This build is for people who like a slight heavy feel  on the downswing. If you like bump and long runs this might not be for you. I personally like to land it closer to the pin so this is perfect. I just built my lob wedge the same after and I was getting same results. Flew low and spinned great. Follow through felt nice like a weighted pendulum. Kept the same momentum throughout the swing. I would def recommend others to try it.

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On 6/4/2022 at 12:04 PM, Howard_Jones said:

High end club making is often underestimated since many think we are splitting hairs, but thats when "magic happens" and things improve.

 

Howard, like many players, I have noticed that I prefer stiffer-than-normal in my long irons, and softer-than-normal in my short. So I wonder if there is a symmetrical long iron 'trick' at the other end of the bag - i.e. hard-step a lighter shaft?

 

Eg. I play CT130s in my normal set, but Rifle 7.0 Spinners in my wedges. Those spinners ARE a touch heavier than the CTapers, but softer.

In my long irons, I like a stiffer shaft. Right now I have an X7 in my 4i, which is perfect for stiffness (stiffer than the CTaper), but may be a little heavy.

My instinct is that I'd love a lighter version of a similarly-stout shaft - maybe a TX MMT or something. But I wonder if it would also work to use, say, a 5i shaft from a CTaper S+ 125 or 120 in my 4 and 3 irons. I.e. hard-step the next-lighter flex? (Might need to hard-step multiple times to get the stiffness I'd like.)

In other words, is there a '5-iron stinger' trick to go with the '8-iron spinner?'

Edited by rbpwrx

Taylormade R7 Quad TP 8.5* w/ Aldila Rogue SIlver 125msi 70TX

Titleist 915Fd 13.5* w/ ACCRA FX 470 M5+

Titleist TS2 17* hybrid w/ Aldila VS Proto 'ByYou' 95X

Titleist U500 20° w/ MMT 125 TX (HSx1)

Cobra King Forged MB 4i-Pw w/ KBS C-Taper 130X

Cleveland RTX4 Raw 52/58 mid w/ Rifle Spinner 7.0
Bell 2Way Blade w/ Rifle 7.0 HSx5 + Flatcat Tak Svelte

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10 minutes ago, rbpwrx said:

My instinct is that I'd love a lighter version of a similarly-stout shaft - maybe a TX MMT or something

I love the 125TX in my 3i.

  • Like 1

Driver: Callaway Paradym Triple D w/ Hazardous Smoke Green Hulk 70TX @45.25

3W: Taylormade M2 15* w/ Hazardous Smoke Green Hulk 80X.

5W: Taylormade M6 18* w/ Hazardous Smoke Green Hulk 90 TX.

Irons: Miura Retro Tournament blades 3i, 4i, and 7i. Miura MB-001 5i, 6i, 8i-PW. 3i with MMT 125TX. 4i-PW are Oak doweled, DG X100 Tiger Stepped 1/4”

lofts: 3i: 20* 4i: 24* 5i: 28* 6i: 32* 7i: 36* 8i: 40* 9i: 44* PW: 48*

Wedges: Fourteen RM4 56* DG X7, Miura 59* At 61* DG X7

Putter: Taylormade Spider

Grips: Golf pride MCC+4.

Ball: Srixon Z-Star XV

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2 hours ago, rbpwrx said:

 

Howard, like many players, I have noticed that I prefer stiffer-than-normal in my long irons, and softer-than-normal in my short. So I wonder if there is a symmetrical long iron 'trick' at the other end of the bag - i.e. hard-step a lighter shaft?

 

Eg. I play CT130s in my normal set, but Rifle 7.0 Spinners in my wedges. Those spinners ARE a touch heavier than the CTapers, but softer.

In my long irons, I like a stiffer shaft. Right now I have an X7 in my 4i, which is perfect for stiffness (stiffer than the CTaper), but may be a little heavy.

My instinct is that I'd love a lighter version of a similarly-stout shaft - maybe a TX MMT or something. But I wonder if it would also work to use, say, a 5i shaft from a CTaper S+ 125 or 120 in my 4 and 3 irons. I.e. hard-step the next-lighter flex? (Might need to hard-step multiple times to get the stiffness I'd like.)

In other words, is there a '5-iron stinger' trick to go with the '8-iron spinner?'


The question is way of topic, but i would have tried a RIFLE FCM, and altered the flex slope. The question would be, since you want a stronger long end, would more weight in the long end be positive or negative for you? you seems to be asking for lighter, and yes we can hard step a lighter option, and then models with "half flex" would be the ones to look at (S+ vs X or 6.5 vs 7.0 models)
The problem would be that as HS1, its not a full 5 CPM stronger, so if we used 6.5 HS1, we ends up at about 6.9 instead of 7.0 where the others is, so its first at HS2 we get beyond 7.0 to about 7.3. That will also bring back most, but not all the weight difference we started from.( If half flex down = minus 5 grams, HS2 will bring 3.4 back, so the new HS2 shafts is only 1.6 grams below "the others" 
 

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DO NOT SEND PMs WITH CLUB TECH QUESTIONS - USE THE PUBLIC FORUM.

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2 hours ago, BombinJim said:

I love the 125TX in my 3i.

Zackly 👍

Taylormade R7 Quad TP 8.5* w/ Aldila Rogue SIlver 125msi 70TX

Titleist 915Fd 13.5* w/ ACCRA FX 470 M5+

Titleist TS2 17* hybrid w/ Aldila VS Proto 'ByYou' 95X

Titleist U500 20° w/ MMT 125 TX (HSx1)

Cobra King Forged MB 4i-Pw w/ KBS C-Taper 130X

Cleveland RTX4 Raw 52/58 mid w/ Rifle Spinner 7.0
Bell 2Way Blade w/ Rifle 7.0 HSx5 + Flatcat Tak Svelte

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6 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:


The question is way of topic, but i would have tried a RIFLE FCM, and altered the flex slope. The question would be, since you want a stronger long end, would more weight in the long end be positive or negative for you? you seems to be asking for lighter, and yes we can hard step a lighter option, and then models with "half flex" would be the ones to look at (S+ vs X or 6.5 vs 7.0 models)
The problem would be that as HS1, its not a full 5 CPM stronger, so if we used 6.5 HS1, we ends up at about 6.9 instead of 7.0 where the others is, so its first at HS2 we get beyond 7.0 to about 7.3. That will also bring back most, but not all the weight difference we started from.( If half flex down = minus 5 grams, HS2 will bring 3.4 back, so the new HS2 shafts is only 1.6 grams below "the others" 
 

Good point. So seems like, at the long end of the bag, better to go to specialty shafts (graphite), rather than hard stepping a lighter steel shaft, because the more you hardstep the heavier it gets. Correct?

 

Or, just stay with my earlier suggestion, to hard step the same shaft at the long end of the bag. Negligible weight gain.

Edited by rbpwrx

Taylormade R7 Quad TP 8.5* w/ Aldila Rogue SIlver 125msi 70TX

Titleist 915Fd 13.5* w/ ACCRA FX 470 M5+

Titleist TS2 17* hybrid w/ Aldila VS Proto 'ByYou' 95X

Titleist U500 20° w/ MMT 125 TX (HSx1)

Cobra King Forged MB 4i-Pw w/ KBS C-Taper 130X

Cleveland RTX4 Raw 52/58 mid w/ Rifle Spinner 7.0
Bell 2Way Blade w/ Rifle 7.0 HSx5 + Flatcat Tak Svelte

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7 hours ago, BombinJim said:

I love the 125TX in my 3i.

Very interesting signature. Why the 'special' 7i? And am I reading right? Softer S flex in the woods, but X100s in the irons, X7 in the wedges? That's the opposite of me. But you like the 125 TX in your 3... would love to hear why this works. I'm still figuring out my bag, and will take any tidbits of wisdom anyone wants to toss me.

  • Like 1

Taylormade R7 Quad TP 8.5* w/ Aldila Rogue SIlver 125msi 70TX

Titleist 915Fd 13.5* w/ ACCRA FX 470 M5+

Titleist TS2 17* hybrid w/ Aldila VS Proto 'ByYou' 95X

Titleist U500 20° w/ MMT 125 TX (HSx1)

Cobra King Forged MB 4i-Pw w/ KBS C-Taper 130X

Cleveland RTX4 Raw 52/58 mid w/ Rifle Spinner 7.0
Bell 2Way Blade w/ Rifle 7.0 HSx5 + Flatcat Tak Svelte

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9 minutes ago, rbpwrx said:

Very interesting signature. Why the 'special' 7i? And am I reading right? Softer S flex in the woods, but X100s in the irons, X7 in the wedges? That's the opposite of me. But you like the 125 TX in your 3... would love to hear why this works. I'm still figuring out my bag, and will take any tidbits of wisdom anyone wants to toss me.

Don’t want to clutter up the spinner wedge thread will dm you.

  • Like 1

Driver: Callaway Paradym Triple D w/ Hazardous Smoke Green Hulk 70TX @45.25

3W: Taylormade M2 15* w/ Hazardous Smoke Green Hulk 80X.

5W: Taylormade M6 18* w/ Hazardous Smoke Green Hulk 90 TX.

Irons: Miura Retro Tournament blades 3i, 4i, and 7i. Miura MB-001 5i, 6i, 8i-PW. 3i with MMT 125TX. 4i-PW are Oak doweled, DG X100 Tiger Stepped 1/4”

lofts: 3i: 20* 4i: 24* 5i: 28* 6i: 32* 7i: 36* 8i: 40* 9i: 44* PW: 48*

Wedges: Fourteen RM4 56* DG X7, Miura 59* At 61* DG X7

Putter: Taylormade Spider

Grips: Golf pride MCC+4.

Ball: Srixon Z-Star XV

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