Spinner shafts for wedges by Howard Jones - The #8 iron spinner trick

[rschaner]

47 minutes ago, third-times-a-charm said:

In the original post by @Howard_Jones he says to use TX flex if you use X in irons.

 

The 115 doesnt have a TX flex unless there is a tour only piece? There is a TX flex 120, though. That is what I would possibly recommend but you have to want that profile as well. The modus3 line is a different feeling shaft with different profiles between the 105-130g shafts. I knew I liked the 120 due to liking the S200. YMMV.

 

Theres a few posts above this about tip-trimming X-flex shafts 3/8" which is doable on .355 taper tips to sort-of hard-step an X-flex one time. This could also potentially work for you if you want to stick with the Modus 115 profile.

I saw the post about tip-trimming. I can order the 115x in some t22 wedges. Would I just order them 3/8" tip trimmed assuming they use a wedge flex shaft? I would like to stick with the same profile. I tried the 120 and didn't like it.

[Howard_Jones]

18 hours ago, rschaner said:

I saw the post about tip-trimming. I can order the 115x in some t22 wedges. Would I just order them 3/8" tip trimmed assuming they use a wedge flex shaft? I would like to stick with the same profile. I tried the 120 and didn't like it.

Tip trim on taper tip shafts might not be a option you can order, its high end custom or DIY.
You might be able to order PLUS 3/8" on play length, then you just pull, tip trim 3/8" and reinstall when you get them.

I assume you are aware of that this is not fully "1 shaft/club head stronger", while the #8 iron spinner trick gives us a shaft thats "2 shafts/club heads stronger".

[rschaner]

3 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

Tip trim on taper tip shafts might not be a option you can order, its high end custom or DIY.
You might be able to order PLUS 3/8" on play length, then you just pull, tip trim 3/8" and reinstall when you get them.

I assume you are aware of that this is not fully "1 shaft/club head stronger", while the #8 iron spinner trick gives us a shaft thats "2 shafts/club heads stronger".

Yes I am aware that tip trimming won't get me the 2 shafts stronger. Since there isn't a TX flex in the 115 I'm not sure which shaft/direction I should try/go. I'd try a shaft from DG but not sure which one. x100?

[Lobby]

Are these wedge and 8i shafts tip trimmed?  

Or, are you buying these shafts and just epoxying them into the heads?

Are these shafts parallel tipped?  Or, taper tipped?

Thanks.   The nerd in me just wanted to understand the "how."

[Howard_Jones]

7 hours ago, Lobby said:

Are these wedge and 8i shafts tip trimmed?  

Or, are you buying these shafts and just epoxying them into the heads?

Are these shafts parallel tipped?  Or, taper tipped?

Thanks.   The nerd in me just wanted to understand the "how."

 

Read post #1 om page #1 and you will know

[KillebrewKub]

Hello @Howard_Jones, great information,I read the post and had a question regarding graphite and half flexes.I have PX 6.0 catalyst in irons soft stepped once, would a 6.5 7 iron shaft(8i trick ss1x) be appropriate in this situation or would you recommend a different shaft #. This shaft only goes up to 6.5. Thanks

[Howard_Jones]

13 hours ago, KillebrewKub said:

Hello @Howard_Jones, great information,I read the post and had a question regarding graphite and half flexes.I have PX 6.0 catalyst in irons soft stepped once, would a 6.5 7 iron shaft(8i trick ss1x) be appropriate in this situation or would you recommend a different shaft #. This shaft only goes up to 6.5. Thanks

NO - that shaft want deliver lower launch and higher spin...in your case its a 6.5 - #9 iron shaft that should be used.
(soft stepped once)

[KillebrewKub]

Thank you so much, I really appreciate it

[NevadaGolfGuy]

I'm not sure why so many people are seemingly just reading "higher spin and low launch" and then skipping all of the actual information. Howard is a very accessible guy but it feels like everyone stops at "higher spin and low launch" and then asking him exactly what to do on a case by case basis when generally all of the information needed to make an informed decision is already in here. Good on you Howard for being so accommodating in this thread and making a formalized outline of this concept that I feel like is much easier to follow than the responses would suggest.  

[Howard_Jones]

55 minutes ago, NevadaGolfGuy said:

I'm not sure why so many people are seemingly just reading "higher spin and low launch" and then skipping all of the actual information. Howard is a very accessible guy but it feels like everyone stops at "higher spin and low launch" and then asking him exactly what to do on a case by case basis when generally all of the information needed to make an informed decision is already in here. Good on you Howard for being so accommodating in this thread and making a formalized outline of this concept that I feel like is much easier to follow than the responses would suggest.  

It will always be like that. Some readers will read it all, and understand "how too", while others might read it all, but if they dont know much about club tech, the chances are large that they still dont understand it, since they dont understand the basics many other does. Then we have those like the last one, playing soft stepped irons...its not that easy to navigate here unless they actually understand this down to the smallest details, and actually knows, how flex in a shaft set actually changes from club to club, even with the same label....and here we mix those labels and make it a bit "muddy" for many.

I did my best with the start post to cover it all, at least as good as it could be done without making it way to long, so its only natural that questions pops up, and those questions and answers will fill in those blank fields, both for the one who ask, and for other readers who just follow to learn.
 

[rschaner]

On 3/23/2022 at 11:47 AM, rschaner said:

Yes I am aware that tip trimming won't get me the 2 shafts stronger. Since there isn't a TX flex in the 115 I'm not sure which shaft/direction I should try/go. I'd try a shaft from DG but not sure which one. x100?

Anyone have a suggestion on a shaft to try that would get me 2 shafts stronger than a modus 115x? Thanks 

[chisag]

... OK, reading this thread several times I certainly understand playing Steelfiber i95cw in r-flex (as these play quite stiff) that I will be going to a s-flex 8i shaft in my pw, 9i in my GW and pw in my LW. But if I am moving to i80cw r-flex shafts and would like to still play i95cw s-flex in my wedges, is this considered a "different" shaft? The weight goes up 10gms and the torque changes from 2.4-2.0 in the i95 to 2.9-2.5 in the i80 so really not apples to apples but not sure how close these are to use for the 8 iron spinner trick. 

[Howard_Jones]

1 hour ago, rschaner said:

Anyone have a suggestion on a shaft to try that would get me 2 shafts stronger than a modus 115x? Thanks 

Modus 115 has a 37.00" who is a dedicated PW shaft as the shortest, and the shaft we "trace" here is the shaft who would fit the slot of a GW, so its only 1 shaft stronger. The Modus 115 is new and unknown to me, so i have no idea if any of the other models can work as a natural progression here (TX flex), but you can use tip trim on a 115 X PW as described to get a shaft close to where a dedicated GW would have been.

[rschaner]

2 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

Modus 115 has a 37.00" who is a dedicated PW shaft as the shortest, and the shaft we "trace" here is the shaft who would fit the slot of a GW, so its only 1 shaft stronger. The Modus 115 is new and unknown to me, so i have no idea if any of the other models can work as a natural progression here (TX flex), but you can use tip trim on a 115 X PW as described to get a shaft close to where a dedicated GW would have been.

Thanks @Howard_Jones I’ll start there and see how it goes. 

[Howard_Jones]

51 minutes ago, chisag said:

... OK, reading this thread several times I certainly understand playing Steelfiber i95cw in r-flex (as these play quite stiff) that I will be going to a s-flex 8i shaft in my pw, 9i in my GW and pw in my LW. But if I am moving to i80cw r-flex shafts and would like to still play i95cw s-flex in my wedges, is this considered a "different" shaft? The weight goes up 10gms and the torque changes from 2.4-2.0 in the i95 to 2.9-2.5 in the i80 so really not apples to apples but not sure how close these are to use for the 8 iron spinner trick. 

In no Steelfiber expert, i had less than a handfull of sets on my table, and i dont have the full profile for any of them, so this is a hard one....Those specs i have say that the 95 is tad stronger than the 80 (MID section), so if the plan is 80 for irons and 95 for wedges, the wedges will for sure be "spinners", but if they will feel like a natural extension to the 80...im not able to tell with the limited specs i have for them.

The concept and idea we follow here, is to get a shaft where flex and profile falls into place like it was "made to be", meaning it all will feel "natural" for the player, so the question is really, is Steelfiber 80CW and 95CW more or less identical shafts with only minor differences to the profile? Its really only the FEEL question i cant say much about here since i dont know Steelfiber good enough to be sure in your case. 

in your shoes, i would have tried it

[LoopySwing13]

Thanks for all your feedback @Howard_Jones ! going to give a PX7.0 W shaft a try in my 58 (PX 6.5 in my other irons).

[Shilgy]

3 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

It will always be like that. Some readers will read it all, and understand "how too", while others might read it all, but if they dont know much about club tech, the chances are large that they still dont understand it, since they dont understand the basics many other does. Then we have those like the last one, playing soft stepped irons...its not that easy to navigate here unless they actually understand this down to the smallest details, and actually knows, how flex in a shaft set actually changes from club to club, even with the same label....and here we mix those labels and make it a bit "muddy" for many.

I did my best with the start post to cover it all, at least as good as it could be done without making it way to long, so its only natural that questions pops up, and those questions and answers will fill in those blank fields, both for the one who ask, and for other readers who just follow to learn.
 

Hank you for understanding…..my eyes tend to glaze over reading the technical information.  But my next wedges will definitely be built this way.

 

Great information from you over the years and very much appreciated.

[Yanger]

Came across this and before I pull the trigger.

 

Playing Project X IO 5.5 in my irons..... I would want to replace by current Wedge Flex vokeys with Project X IO 6.5 - 8i, 9i, PW, for my 50, 56, 60  and butt trim to length right?

[Howard_Jones]

53 minutes ago, Yanger said:

Came across this and before I pull the trigger.

 

Playing Project X IO 5.5 in my irons..... I would want to replace by current Wedge Flex vokeys with Project X IO 6.5 - 8i, 9i, PW, for my 50, 56, 60  and butt trim to length right?

If you want full flex progression all the way, then YES you got it right.

[Trippels]

So I've got Project X LS 6.5 on order for my iron set, and I want to get the same shaft for my wedges. Would I then put Project X LS 7.0 8# iron shafts in all my wedges and butt trim to length to get slightly heavier wedge shafts that keep the spin up?

[getitdaily]

14 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

If you want full flex progression all the way, then YES you got it right.

Other than the stealth+ driver, the 8i shaft in my 54 could be the most impactful change I've made in a while. There's just so much confidence in the club now. The ball doesn't waver off its line.

 

Had 2 approaches with my 54 on Saturday. One was on a hole cut about 3 paces from a ridge. Hit it pin high, about 10 feet right, exactly where I was looking. 2nd was a full shot. Had 108, played ball back just a hair and hit it hard. All over the flag the entire way. Hit 2 yards past the hole and spun back to a kick-in. 

 

2 approaches...2 birdies. All winter and spring this club has been money. Just need 1 more shaft for my 60...c'mon kbs...get some stock

[Howard_Jones]

18 minutes ago, Trippels said:

So I've got Project X LS 6.5 on order for my iron set, and I want to get the same shaft for my wedges. Would I then put Project X LS 7.0 8# iron shafts in all my wedges and butt trim to length to get slightly heavier wedge shafts that keep the spin up?

NO, that shaft is to weak for that, scroll back and read about "half flexes"... 

[Trippels]

3 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

NO, that shaft is to weak for that, scroll back and read about "half flexes"... 

Yes I see, sorry. 

So you would recommend the dedicated PW shaft in the 7.0 flex straight in since I use 6.5 in the irons? Is that correct?

[Howard_Jones]

1 minute ago, Trippels said:

Yes I see, sorry. 

So you would recommend the dedicated PW shaft in the 7.0 flex straight in since I use 6.5 in the irons? Is that correct?

YES, and further down is a small chart who shows that "half a flex stronger" PW shaft, is equal to the dedicated GW shaft we cant buy from half a flex softer we play in irons, so for all shaft sets where a dedicated PW shaft exist, we can use that strait in, and butt cut to our target play length. (no tip trim, thats only relevant if #9 is the strongest, OR if we want to make a SW shaft, then we use a tip trimmed PW from half a flex stronger, or the #9 from a FULL flex stronger W/O tip trim). 

[Trippels]

1 hour ago, Howard_Jones said:

YES, and further down is a small chart who shows that "half a flex stronger" PW shaft, is equal to the dedicated GW shaft we cant buy from half a flex softer we play in irons, so for all shaft sets where a dedicated PW shaft exist, we can use that strait in, and butt cut to our target play length. (no tip trim, thats only relevant if #9 is the strongest, OR if we want to make a SW shaft, then we use a tip trimmed PW from half a flex stronger, or the #9 from a FULL flex stronger W/O tip trim). 

I play all my wedges at PW length, 35.5 inches. All same model wedges too. What sort of spin difference would you expect between using the 6.5 LS PW shaft in all of them, and using the 7.0 PW shaft? I would have though 6.5 would spin more since it's softer.

[Pepperturbo]

Just for the record, I tried the #8 iron trick, didn't work for me. 

 

I play MMT 125-S shafts in irons, so went with MMT 125-TX 8i shafts put in Gap/SW and LW.  I play both them at PW length or 35.75" plus 4 grip wraps.  Result was a much higher trajectory than with 125-S shafts, too much spin on the green surface, plus a loss of 5-10yds on full shots with each club.

 

This post is not meant in any negative way towards Howard's valued help.  Probably, speaks to this old guy not getting the best spin control from the setup.  I have since switched to i110cw S in 620 MB irons and i125cw S in both SM9 wedges. 

Edited August 31, 2022 by Pepperturbo
Update

[FirePro]

Any recommendations for someone currently playing PX LS 7.0 in my irons other than tip trimming the standard PW length shaft.  I have been struggling for years to find a shaft for my wedges to lower spin and launch.  I feel like I loose the head at transition and consistently hit high toe which I attribute to shaft droop (I'm assuming).  I wish I could find a fitter that had wedge shaft options similar to what they currently have for irons but I have not come across any in the GTA (Toronto Area)

 

I get each player is going to have a different delivery of the golf club but is one of these shafts less susceptible to shaft droop over the other (PX LS 7.0 or TT DG TI X7)

[Howard_Jones]

10 hours ago, Trippels said:

I play all my wedges at PW length, 35.5 inches. All same model wedges too. What sort of spin difference would you expect between using the 6.5 LS PW shaft in all of them, and using the 7.0 PW shaft? I would have though 6.5 would spin more since it's softer.

its not possible to deliver numbers here since feel most often changes delivery of the club, so this will vary from player to player. All we really got is the "system", where softer = higher launch and lower spin, and stronger delivers lower launch and higher spin. (wedges works opposite of irons here, thats the most confusing part for most.)

[Howard_Jones]

7 hours ago, FirePro said:

Any recommendations for someone currently playing PX LS 7.0 in my irons other than tip trimming the standard PW length shaft.  I have been struggling for years to find a shaft for my wedges to lower spin and launch.  I feel like I loose the head at transition and consistently hit high toe which I attribute to shaft droop (I'm assuming).  I wish I could find a fitter that had wedge shaft options similar to what they currently have for irons but I have not come across any in the GTA (Toronto Area)

 

I get each player is going to have a different delivery of the golf club but is one of these shafts less susceptible to shaft droop over the other (PX LS 7.0 or TT DG TI X7)

 

Toe side impact is often but not always a indicator of a head weight thats too low for the player, so try to add some lead tape and see what happens to feel and impact. Both shaft models you describe is in the strong end, and dont bend much, so its NOT a toe drop issue from bending, its more likely your hands thats too high at impact vs address position if added head wgt cant solve it.
 

Its no other options than tip trim when we already are at the strongest factory option.

Edited May 17, 2022 by Howard_Jones

[FirePro]

4 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

 

Toe side impact is often but not always a indicator of a head weight thats too low for the player, so try to add some lead tape and see what happens to feel and impact. Both shaft models you describe is in the strong end, and dont bend much, so its NOT a toe drop issue from bending, its more likely your hands thats too high at impact vs address position if added head wgt cant solve it.
 

Its no other options than tip trim when we already are at the strongest factory option.

Thank you for the quick response.  I could have explained myself much better than I did, I have yet to try ether of these shafts in my wedges and they may fit the bill, the stiffest profile I have used to date were my C-Taper S+ which I had better results with than my current setup.  I will try the lead tape to see how that works out, thanks for the tip.  As some of the previous said I appreciate you being available for all of these questions us meat heads have for you.