Spinner shafts for wedges by Howard Jones - The #8 iron spinner trick

[Big Eric]

On 10/2/2022 at 3:19 AM, Howard_Jones said:

For DG 105, Its a dedicated PW shaft. (36.50")
Japan measured specs is the same as what i have in my DB, so ive merged those numbers to one chart.

 

Following up on this. I play DG105 x100 +1/2 inch soft stepped twice.  That means i'm good through gap wedge (50 degree). I use my 54 expecting it to bite and for the 58, I use it when i want to go high and land softly without much roll out. Am i better off tip trimming the 9/w shaft or trying the dg120 8 & 9 shafts respectively?

 

 

[flyingwedges2]

On 8/31/2022 at 3:00 PM, Howard_Jones said:

You got the points 100% right

THIS tread and about 25 others ive written will soon be collected with a INDEX and work as a complete PDF book for club tech and fitting of clubs. It should be ready a few weeks after im back in Spain, so expect it medio October

Howard, how can we locate that PDF?  Thanks

[getitdaily]

Meant to post an update to this but forgot. My wedge play has been very solid since changing to the 8i shaft as outlined in this thread. 

 

I had a 3 day tournament in mid-october. Over the 3 days, I had 6 approach shots between 80 and 115 yards. I have the 8i shafts in my 50-54-60 so those 6 shots were with one of those clubs. 

 

Of those 6 shots, 4 were inside 10 feet, a couple inside 5. 4/6 opportunities were birdies. I'll take that conversion rate.

[Howard_Jones]

4 hours ago, flyingwedges2 said:

Howard, how can we locate that PDF?  Thanks

You cant, its not ready yet, i had way more stuff stored than i was aware of

[Howard_Jones]

7 hours ago, Big Eric said:

 

Following up on this. I play DG105 x100 +1/2 inch soft stepped twice.  That means i'm good through gap wedge (50 degree). I use my 54 expecting it to bite and for the 58, I use it when i want to go high and land softly without much roll out. Am i better off tip trimming the 9/w shaft or trying the dg120 8 & 9 shafts respectively?

 

 

105 vs 120 is NOT the same shaft, so its NOT what this tread is all about.
- 120 might work just fine, but again, this tread is about how we find that shaft we dont find in our iron set, and as a natural extension to that, and since 105 and 120 is clearly different, that set up is NOT what im writing about here.

Edited December 12, 2022 by Howard_Jones

[maximusppl]

I did try the 8iron PX6.0 shaft tipped 3/8" in my 54* and 60* wedge. They actually feel pretty good at full shots and 3/4 swing (9-10 o'clock backswing) pitch shots. Seems like a bit more spin than the stock Hi-Rev shafts. I will compare it against the new PX Wedge Shafts when they come out in early 2023. 

[ewaldbeukes]

On 10/2/2022 at 9:19 AM, Howard_Jones said:

For DG 105, Its a dedicated PW shaft. (36.50")
Japan measured specs is the same as what i have in my DB, so ive merged those numbers to one chart.

@Howard_Jones I know you have written loads and might have missed this - but could you or someone check my logic. The numbers are estimated. 

 

I want to go to DG 105 X100s either straight in or hard stepped. This table has been awesome - thank you. My logic says to get some of the spinner benefit I would want to use the DG120 X100 9iron/wedge shaft to get a similar benefit? (The CPM is a bit higher so should get at least some benefit doing it this way?) Would tip trimming the 3/8" still be needed? 

 

[Howard_Jones]

4 hours ago, ewaldbeukes said:

@Howard_Jones I know you have written loads and might have missed this - but could you or someone check my logic. The numbers are estimated. 

 

I want to go to DG 105 X100s either straight in or hard stepped. This table has been awesome - thank you. My logic says to get some of the spinner benefit I would want to use the DG120 X100 9iron/wedge shaft to get a similar benefit? (The CPM is a bit higher so should get at least some benefit doing it this way?) Would tip trimming the 3/8" still be needed? 

 

Like i wrote above (December 12), DG 105 and DG 120 is NOT the same shaft series, so to be able to judge that question, we would need more specs for both, AND some real life testing where the player himself can judge if this 2 models can be "merged", and if so, "how"?

DG 120 is a "very low launch" profile to be able to deliver almost identical ball flight as its heavy OG 130 gram brother. DG 105 in NOT designed to be a "copy" of the OG DG, and i never worked with them, so i cant help out here.

Try it off and tell us

[ewaldbeukes]

5 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

Like i wrote above (December 12), DG 105 and DG 120 is NOT the same shaft series, so to be able to judge that question, we would need more specs for both, AND some real life testing where the player himself can judge if this 2 models can be "merged", and if so, "how"?

DG 120 is a "very low launch" profile to be able to deliver almost identical ball flight as its heavy OG 130 gram brother. DG 105 in NOT designed to be a "copy" of the OG DG, and i never worked with them, so i cant help out here.

Try it off and tell us

Thanks Howard, sorry for missing the other post! Will give it a bash and revert.

[FirePro]

On 12/11/2022 at 8:22 PM, maximusppl said:

I did try the 8iron PX6.0 shaft tipped 3/8" in my 54* and 60* wedge. They actually feel pretty good at full shots and 3/4 swing (9-10 o'clock backswing) pitch shots. Seems like a bit more spin than the stock Hi-Rev shafts. I will compare it against the new PX Wedge Shafts when they come out in early 2023. 

I must have missed something.  why not just play the 9 iron shaft if you were going to tip it anyways?  I guess it would play ever so slightly weaker than the 9 iron shaft but that's not the point of the 8 iron spinner shaft.  Are you currently playing PX 5.0?  The spinner shaft would be the 6.0 strait in and butt trim to length if you are playing 5.0 currently.  if you are playing 5.5 then it would be the 6.5 8 iron strait in and so on

[FirePro]

On 10/3/2022 at 6:17 AM, ironJosh said:

Unfortunately I will already be starting likely from X7's 1/2" longer in my new set of irons so my only option is to tip trim. It has me wondering what it would look like... I am being fitted at cool clubs in a month so I need to give them clear instructions. I will be having 4 matching non-set wedges (most likely T22, as it seems like it has the highest vcog, and good high bounce options to keep the strike a little lower in the face). I play all my wedges at the same length (36") at the moment with x100 shafts, and its no wonder my lob wedge gets lost in space (m grind 60). Is playing all my wedges the same length now going to be now out of the question so that I can get flex uniformity through my set? Can anyone weigh in on the tip trimming I should be doing? It obviously depends on my irons but lets just say I go with 223's and T22's. If i graduate my tip trims, what might that look like? Are there any other shaft options that would work for me? Any TX flex parallel shafts long enough?

I went down the rabbit hole on this myself and with the help of Howard I came to the conclusion that the X7 in my PW was 1/4" trimmed, couldn't pull the trigger on the full 3/8" on the PW but did tip trim 3/8" on my 49*.  Since I don't take full swings with the 54 and 54 I opted for the X100's and tipped them 3/8" and they feel great and my control has improved across the board with them.  I could have gone with the X7's in the 54*, 58* tipped at 3/8" without issue though.

 

I had been struggling with finding a shaft for my wedges for a long time with my most success being with C-Tapers before my new setup.

 

[samwm]

On 3/21/2022 at 7:10 PM, third-times-a-charm said:

Gonna bump this 'cause more people should try it out.

 

I play Modus 105s in irons but have always liked the stock S200 shaft found in most wedges. On a whim I saw this and decided to try it out - but with a slight change of using the Modus 120 instead of the 105 in my irons. Reason because the Modus 120 is actually a very similar profile to the S200 and also similar weight.

 

Results have been insanely positive. Accuracy is much better, feel and tempo is better and every shot is much more under control.

 

Highly recommend this trick!

 

Curious as to which (loft) wedges you tried this in. Thinking of following suit. 

 

Thanks to Howard and all the participants in this thread for the insights. Very interesting research and appreciate you sharing your knowledge.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 22, 2022 by samwm

[third-times-a-charm]

19 minutes ago, samwm said:

 

Curious as to which (loft) wedges you tried this in. Thinking of following suit. 

 

Thanks to Howard and all the participants in this thread for the insights. Very interesting research and appreciate you sharing your knowledge.

 

 

 

 

54, 56, 58 and 60. Worked great in all of them.

[Jumpsmidwest]

@Howard_Jones or anyone else.  To confirm, I play c taper lite X in my irons. Is my primary option to do the tiger step with a 9 iron since this shaft does not come in TX?

[maximusppl]

On 12/21/2022 at 2:45 PM, FirePro said:

I must have missed something.  why not just play the 9 iron shaft if you were going to tip it anyways?  I guess it would play ever so slightly weaker than the 9 iron shaft but that's not the point of the 8 iron spinner shaft.  Are you currently playing PX 5.0?  The spinner shaft would be the 6.0 strait in and butt trim to length if you are playing 5.0 currently.  if you are playing 5.5 then it would be the 6.5 8 iron strait in and so on

 

Because I had a few extra 8iron shafts from the build. I am currently playing X 6.0

[Howard_Jones]

14 hours ago, Jumpsmidwest said:

@Howard_Jones or anyone else.  To confirm, I play c taper lite X in my irons. Is my primary option to do the tiger step with a 9 iron since this shaft does not come in TX?

YES

[Jumpsmidwest]

20 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

YES

Got it. #9 shafts ordered for my 50, 55, & 60 degree. Will tip trim 3/8” off of each and butt trim from there. Will report back for anyone interested. Thanks again Howard! 

[elephant15]

Would using a double full flex stronger 8i shaft, ie., S to TX, result in an even lower ball flight, higher spin or both? 

[Howard_Jones]

4 minutes ago, elephant15 said:

Would using a double full flex stronger 8i shaft, ie., S to TX, result in an even lower ball flight, higher spin or both? 

Probably, but that shaft want feel like your irons, and thats what we try here.
We try to find the shaft that lowers launch and add spin, but still feel like a natural extension to iron shafts you like. You are "overdoing it", so instead of getting a shaft that fits the slot of a GW (if that was the club), you ends up with a club thats hard stepped 2 x vs that, and i dont think it will feel right.

[Kitt]

Hello Howard, I'm using Modus3 105 X flex for my irons.  I'm looking to lower the ball flight on PW, GW, SW and LW. I'm using full, 3/4 and 1/2 swing on all 4 wedges. Should I use Modus3 115x or Modus3 125x? And should I use7 iron for PW, 8 iron for GW, 9 iron for SW and PW Iron on LW? I read online and it says Modus 105, 115 and 125 are the same profile.

[dbornack]

Interesting.  I thought we were just playing an 8i shaft from whatever shaft we wanted in the wedge, not in parallel with out iron set.

 

Example, I like Dynamic Gold in my wedges, and S400s because they're heavy.  However, I play KBS 130X in my irons.  Reason I like the S400, is feel, and the fact that I never really take anywhere close to a full swing with my wedges.  Not even my PW unless I just absolutely need to.

 

So what I thought the 8i spinner was, was just the 8i shaft from the iron set, but trimmed for a wedge, and because it was an 8i shaft, it'd be a longer bottom section before the stepping starts to get bigger, therefore providing a little more tip flex, and that's how we got some extra spin.  

 

So it's actually the opposite.  A stiffer shaft is the secret.

[Howard_Jones]

11 hours ago, dbornack said:

Interesting.  I thought we were just playing an 8i shaft from whatever shaft we wanted in the wedge, not in parallel with out iron set.

 

Example, I like Dynamic Gold in my wedges, and S400s because they're heavy.  However, I play KBS 130X in my irons.  Reason I like the S400, is feel, and the fact that I never really take anywhere close to a full swing with my wedges.  Not even my PW unless I just absolutely need to.

 

So what I thought the 8i spinner was, was just the 8i shaft from the iron set, but trimmed for a wedge, and because it was an 8i shaft, it'd be a longer bottom section before the stepping starts to get bigger, therefore providing a little more tip flex, and that's how we got some extra spin.  

 

So it's actually the opposite.  A stiffer shaft is the secret.

Yes, when we get into lofts of Wedges, the curves for launch still goes up, while spin goes down, so a softer shaft CANT make it.

Since many players struggles to keep ball flight low, and to be able to stop the ball on the green like we should, the #8 iron spinner trick described in this tread is the way to go.

It will take down launch and add spin, and the shaft will feel like the iron shafts we play, so we are taking care of the most important here, launch, spin and feel, all as part of the same concept.

 

Edited January 5, 2023 by Howard_Jones

[dbornack]

4 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

Yes, when we get into lofts of Wedges, the curves for launch still goes up, while spin goes down, so a softer shaft CANT make it.

Since many players struggles to keep ball flight low, and to be able to stop the ball on the green like we should, the #8 iron spinner trick described in this tread is the way to go.

It will take down launch and add spin, and the shaft will feel like the iron shafts we play, so we are taking care of the most important here, launch, spin and feel, all as part of the same concept.

 

I keep reading this entire thread and I'm still confused a little as to why a stiffer shaft is going to make things feel better and spin more. 

 

So if I play $-Taper 130x, hard stepped and an inch longer in my irons, what am I to do for my utility wedges? 6i shaft? 

Edited January 5, 2023 by dbornack

[Howard_Jones]

7 hours ago, dbornack said:

I keep reading this entire thread and I'm still confused a little as to why a stiffer shaft is going to make things feel better and spin more. 

 

So if I play $-Taper 130x, hard stepped and an inch longer in my irons, what am I to do for my utility wedges? 6i shaft? 

SPIN
Since we "loose spin" as loft goes beyond 45, we try to avoid adding dynamic loft (a shaft that bends too much and add dynamic loft), so reality is, DYNAMIC LOFT or "loft at impact" will go DOWN, who lowers launch angle, AND add spin back.

FEEL
Since the shaft we use here, is "identical" to the GW shaft we cant buy, it will feel like it belongs to the iron set, just like it was delivered as lets say 3-GW instead of 3-PW or 3-9

A standard set of iron shafts go stiffer with less deflection club by club, so the #8 iron spinner trick, is simply a "back door" to extend the iron shaft series into wedges, to get those shafts thats "officially" not available.

Said with other words, if True Temper, KBS or Nippon wanted to offer shaft sets that goes from #1 to LOB wedge, without actually make the shafts for PW, GW, SW and LW, they could all offer "full sets" by using this concept.



The "norm" has been to use the #9 or PW shaft "all the way", so the clubs after the shortest iron, becomes soft stepped 1x, SS2, SS3 and SS4
That ADD launch, but spin will drop, so to prevent that, we have this way to extend the iron shaft series into wedges, and keep up flex progression like it is in the iron set-

Edited January 5, 2023 by Howard_Jones

[Milfordlefty]

Will a lower swing speed player see the same benefits? ie: a Sr flex iron player would use the R flex 8i of the same shaft model/weight? Or does the slower swing speed need the higher flight and as much spin as possible?

[Howard_Jones]

38 minutes ago, Milfordlefty said:

Will a lower swing speed player see the same benefits? ie: a Sr flex iron player would use the R flex 8i of the same shaft model/weight? Or does the slower swing speed need the higher flight and as much spin as possible?

Good question, and im sorry to tell that i have little to none experience with lower swing speed players, i worked with professionals, either PGA or LPGA players, or elite amateur players below HDCP 3.5, so that means mostly players above 85 mph club speed with their #6 iron

But....im both old and "slow" myself, my club speed with the driver is in the 90 mph area, (below 80 with a #6 iron) and i use the #8 iron spinner trick for my own wedges, and have moved the shafts into the #4 sets of head since ive started, and i will never use anything else, because i love everything about those shafts for wedges. 

i play TT Tour Concept iron shafts a flex stronger as wedges, and ive never been more happy about wedge shafts than this, but i cant deliver any numbers here, i can only say, my wedge game has never been better, and the short game has always been my strength (im a short hitter, with about 200 meters/219 yards as max carry from the tee)

 

Edited January 5, 2023 by Howard_Jones

[Milfordlefty]

Howard, thanks for the info. My problem is my newly acquired iron set (Cleveland HB Turbo) have Miyazaki graphite shafts which are not available (to my knowledge) individually at retail. I was considering a reshaft to existing SW/LW which are in steel. I may consider Nippon Zelos 6 or 7 shafts as they are light, but steel, in wedge flex. Which is totally different from this thread's main point.

[bp66]

I have read a lot of this info and I sort of understand... I feel like I'm repeating questions, but I'm sot sure, so I'll ask again and maybe it will help the group. I play kbs tour 130 x plus 1/2 inch in my irons. I'm trying to figure out the best direction for 56 and 60 shafts. 56 is mostly 3/4 shots and a few full. 60 is rarely full, it's 3/4 and lots of greenside. looking for a  lower trajectory and feel on the in between stuff. please point me in the direction to figure this out. Thanks

[Howard_Jones]

7 hours ago, bp66 said:

I have read a lot of this info and I sort of understand... I feel like I'm repeating questions, but I'm sot sure, so I'll ask again and maybe it will help the group. I play kbs tour 130 x plus 1/2 inch in my irons. I'm trying to figure out the best direction for 56 and 60 shafts. 56 is mostly 3/4 shots and a few full. 60 is rarely full, it's 3/4 and lots of greenside. looking for a  lower trajectory and feel on the in between stuff. please point me in the direction to figure this out. Thanks

The answer is in the main post on page #1.
 

[Kitt]

Hi Howard, I saw your CPM and Deflection chart comparing between Modus 105X and Modus 125X. Currently I'm using Modus 105X on my irons. My wedges are 50,54 and 58 all three using KBS Hi Rev 125S. I really don't like it the flight is just too high when I hit full and 3/4 shots. All my 3 wedges i hit full, 3/4 and 1/2 shots. Around the green I use 54 and 58 depends on the lie. Should I order Modus 125X #PW x 3 shafts or Modus 125X #8,#9 and #PW? I'm not sure that Modus 125X is a full flex stronger or Half flex stronger compare it with Modus 105X.

PS. I don't want to use 105X and tip trim since it would be too light on my wedges.