Spinner shafts for wedges by Howard Jones - The #8 iron spinner trick

[third-times-a-charm]

In general terms should a 70R 8i spinner trick shaft still launch higher and spin more than a 90S PW shaft in wedges for a slow swing speed player who normally plays 55R2 in their irons?
 

If im thinking correctly yes it will?

[Howard_Jones]

11 minutes ago, third-times-a-charm said:

In general terms should a 70R 8i spinner trick shaft still launch higher and spin more than a 90S PW shaft in wedges for a slow swing speed player who normally plays 55R2 in their irons?
 

If im thinking correctly yes it will?

First of all, a 70R #8 i spinner, would be a 70S #8 shaft, NOT a 70R #8 shaft
90S PW...large jump in wgt, the question is, is flex range and profile comparable here?

If it is, and only wgt is different, we can still use the chart for FULL FLEX
That means a 90S PW shaft fits the flex slot of a 70 R LOB Wedge shaft.

Compared, 90S PW will have a lower launch but with higher spin, than 90S #8

[meanttodothat]

13 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

Thats all up to you for how you want it to be or play
I can only assume that your shaft model is DESCENDING wgt, and for most but not all models, tip trim stops at the PW. The GW will then be SS1 unless we tip trim for 1 club stronger (0.5") 1 club stronger, so if you wants to use the 60 gram iron shafts for GW, make sure its tip trimmed if lower launch and higher spin is wanted in that club.
 

Awesome that makes sense. My gap is 1.9 grams heavier than the PW. I think I’m going to use the 60r so it feels the same as my PW. Do you think .5” trim is necessary with weight difference being so close? Like you mention above they will likely be full swing and I think feeling the same will be better.

 

I’ll use the 70S for the 52/56 wedges. 
 

for reference I am using the Fujikura Vista Pro shafts. 

[biffstix]

Anyone do this with $ tapers and enjoy them? I have $ taper HT 125’s which are no longer produced. Thinking of using $ taper 130 8 iron shafts.

[Howard_Jones]

On 2/18/2023 at 1:37 AM, biffstix said:

Anyone do this with $ tapers and enjoy them? I have $ taper HT 125’s which are no longer produced. Thinking of using $ taper 130 8 iron shafts.

That will be going SOFTER and the wrong direction.

READ this link, you missed a full chapter on page 1
 

 

Edited February 20, 2023 by Howard_Jones

[Tom Weedy]

So I watched the Mr. Short game video, I'm fairly new to building my own clubs, but a long time golfer.  I just ordered new Maltby wedge heads (52, 56 and 60) and True Temper Elevate 95 stiff shafts, trimmed down for an 8 iron.  I currently play a True Temper Elevate 85 regular in my irons.  My question is, they are swing weighting well into the E range unless I add like 50 gram weights into the butt section which seems like it would make the club really heavy.  Should I worry about the SW being that high or should I bring it down making it a heavier club?

 

Thanks! 

Tom

[Ty-Webb]

3 hours ago, Tom Weedy said:

So I watched the Mr. Short game video, I'm fairly new to building my own clubs, but a long time golfer.  I just ordered new Maltby wedge heads (52, 56 and 60) and True Temper Elevate 95 stiff shafts, trimmed down for an 8 iron.  I currently play a True Temper Elevate 85 regular in my irons.  My question is, they are swing weighting well into the E range unless I add like 50 gram weights into the butt section which seems like it would make the club really heavy.  Should I worry about the SW being that high or should I bring it down making it a heavier club?

 

Thanks! 

Tom

 

In regards to the the bold above. Are you saying that your 52, 56, 60 are now 8 iron lengths? If so, then that explains your swing weight issues. I don't think that's what you meant but just making sure. The 8iron of a full flex stronger can go straight into your wedges but you need to butt trim to desired length. 

 

Your post makes it sound like you ordered 3x 8 iron Elevate 95 shafts and had golfworks trim them for you to the standard 8 iron length, and then when you received them in the mail, you just tossed them straight into your wedges. 

[Ty-Webb]

@Howard_Jones

 

I've searched this and can't seem to find the answer. Did Nippon make the wedge shaft stronger than the corresponding set to mimic the 8 iron spinner? Example, if one plays the Modus 125x does the wedge shaft in 125 (slightly heavier than the 125 irons) still play soft if installed into the GW, SW, LW? Or did Nippon account for that and already make the adjustments? 

[Tom Weedy]

23 minutes ago, Ty-Webb said:

 

In regards to the the bold above. Are you saying that your 52, 56, 60 are now 8 iron lengths? If so, then that explains your swing weight issues. I don't think that's what you meant but just making sure. The 8iron of a full flex stronger can go straight into your wedges but you need to butt trim to desired length. 

 

Your post makes it sound like you ordered 3x 8 iron Elevate 95 shafts and had golfworks trim them for you to the standard 8 iron length, and then when you received them in the mail, you just tossed them straight into your wedges. 

 

Thanks Ty-Webb, love the name!

 

So I should have done a better job of clarifying myself.  I ordered three True Temper 95 Gram stiff shafts (.370 parallel) tip trimmed them 3" each per (IR-6) to 8 iron specs, then butt trimmed them to my wedge lengths (52-35.50". 56-35.25", 60-35.00").   My wedge heads are Maltby LE forged wedge heads which are approximately 300 grams each and my grip is a jumbomax XS ultralight coming in around 42 grams. 

[biffstix]

On 2/20/2023 at 12:14 AM, Howard_Jones said:

That will be going SOFTER and the wrong direction.

READ this link, you missed a full chapter on page 1
 

 

Thanks Howard. 
what if the goal is to get a little heavier and a little softer? Would a 8 iron from 1/2 flex up be too soft? Assuming a dedicated pw shaft here.

[Howard_Jones]

9 hours ago, Ty-Webb said:

@Howard_Jones

 

I've searched this and can't seem to find the answer. Did Nippon make the wedge shaft stronger than the corresponding set to mimic the 8 iron spinner? Example, if one plays the Modus 125x does the wedge shaft in 125 (slightly heavier than the 125 irons) still play soft if installed into the GW, SW, LW? Or did Nippon account for that and already make the adjustments? 

I have no idea, i was never a Nippon dealer, and dont know their wedge spesific shafts at all

[Howard_Jones]

3 hours ago, biffstix said:

Thanks Howard. 
what if the goal is to get a little heavier and a little softer? Would a 8 iron from 1/2 flex up be too soft? Assuming a dedicated pw shaft here.

Like i said above, the #8 iron from half a flex stronger, is "2 irons softer", than our target for GW.

Weight.

Example.
We use a 130 grams #8 iron shaft for GW
If this shaft comes from a series who has a dedicated PW shaft, it will be SS2
SS2 = 1.0 inch more butt cut down to play lenght = we loose the weight of 1.0 inch.
130 grams / 37.50" #8 iron = 3.46 or 3.5 grams weight loss 
Our 130 gram #8 iron shaft should be judged as 126.5 grams now

If you use half a flex stronger and the #8 where a dedicated PW shaft exist, the 5 grams gained will be 3.5 down again, so its only 1.5 grams up.
if BBGM is higher on the wedge, it most often is, we cut more off the but, and NET cut shaft wgt is now down at irons.

So, going up and softer is hardly ever a option, since softer means soft stepping and weight loss

Edited February 24, 2023 by Howard_Jones

[sailfishchris]

@Howard_Jones 

I play my wedges in the s400 stiff flex - but hard stepped with 7, 8, 9 in my gap, sand, lob wedge. To try this I would just go to x100 7, 8, 9 shafts - would that be correct?

[Howard_Jones]

15 minutes ago, sailfishchris said:

@Howard_Jones 

I play my wedges in the s400 stiff flex - but hard stepped with 7, 8, 9 in my gap, sand, lob wedge. To try this I would just go to x100 7, 8, 9 shafts - would that be correct?

You cant hard step a iron shaft into wedge shafts, thats opposite and SOFT stepping.
7 for GW is SS4, so is 8 for SW and 9 for LW

Its all relative to irons, and you say nothing about them, so i have no idea whats right here

[sailfishchris]

58 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

You cant hard step a iron shaft into wedge shafts, thats opposite and SOFT stepping.
7 for GW is SS4, so is 8 for SW and 9 for LW

Its all relative to irons, and you say nothing about them, so i have no idea whats right here

Thank you Howard! Your answer cleared everything up for me 

[SE Gamer]

Currently own two sets of irons. One with DG S300. The other, which I plan to game this year, is PX 6.0 Rifle Tour Flighted. Considering changing up my wedges, to include the "spinner" shaft method. 

Curious about whether this is possible with the PX Rifle Tour Flighted Shafts. AFAIK, they are one length (i.e. not sold as club specific shafts), and are cut to length based on the club. So there isn't really a lowest shaft option in the mix. They also only have the half flex stronger available (6.5).

They advise for GW to tip trim 5 3/8" and SW tip trim 5 5/8", then butt trim for playing length. Thinking if I went the PX Rifle Tour flighted route, I'd need to do additional tip trimming beyond the above to get the full flex stronger?

Alternatively, I may be better off just going with DG x100. As I've got far more time with DG shafts, and this route would mirror what I have in my other iron set.

[Howard_Jones]

4 hours ago, SE Gamer said:

Currently own two sets of irons. One with DG S300. The other, which I plan to game this year, is PX 6.0 Rifle Tour Flighted. Considering changing up my wedges, to include the "spinner" shaft method. 

Curious about whether this is possible with the PX Rifle Tour Flighted Shafts. AFAIK, they are one length (i.e. not sold as club specific shafts), and are cut to length based on the club. So there isn't really a lowest shaft option in the mix. They also only have the half flex stronger available (6.5).

They advise for GW to tip trim 5 3/8" and SW tip trim 5 5/8", then butt trim for playing length. Thinking if I went the PX Rifle Tour flighted route, I'd need to do additional tip trimming beyond the above to get the full flex stronger?

Alternatively, I may be better off just going with DG x100. As I've got far more time with DG shafts, and this route would mirror what I have in my other iron set.

NO...

A standard set has tip trim that stops at the PW
If your set can be trip trimmed further (enough tip section), then you just keep up trip trim...its THAT easy, since this is what we try with all the others. make a extension to the iron shaft series

So just compare tip trim from #9 and further, if it moves on from PW, just follow that

[SE Gamer]

5 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

NO...

A standard set has tip trim that stops at the PW
If your set can be trip trimmed further (enough tip section), then you just keep up trip trim...its THAT easy, since this is what we try with all the others. make a extension to the iron shaft series

So just compare tip trim from #9 and further, if it moves on from PW, just follow that

 

Thanks for the patience and insight!

 

I was wrapped up in the whole flex stronger component. But if I'm reading the above correctly. If the shaft model in question has specs on trimming down to SW, just go with the exact same flex as the rest of your set and call it a day.

[Howard_Jones]

7 hours ago, SE Gamer said:

 

Thanks for the patience and insight!

 

I was wrapped up in the whole flex stronger component. But if I'm reading the above correctly. If the shaft model in question has specs on trimming down to SW, just go with the exact same flex as the rest of your set and call it a day.

Correct, and thats exactly what we do with the other.
To get that "GW shaft we cant buy, we have to use 1 full flex stronger and #8, or half a flex stronger and PW, or we can get there by tip trim on a #9 or PW.........That bring us to "GW tip trim"....

Edited February 28, 2023 by Howard_Jones

[SE Gamer]

4 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

Correct, and thats exactly what we do with the other.
To get that "GW shaft we cant buy, we have to use 1 full flex stronger and #8, or half a flex stronger and PW, or we can get there by tip trim on a #9 or PW.........That bring us to "GW tip trim"....

Thanks Howard! Makes complete sense, and has now "clicked" for me in a way that I've simply overlooked all along. 

 

Again, I really appreciate your patience in answering these questions. I'm sure since you know this topic inside and out, some of these inquiries probably seem very elementary. Would imagine it's what I feel like when I have to explain to my 6 year old how change the TV input from AV to Cable for the 178th time.

[Howard_Jones]

5 minutes ago, SE Gamer said:

Thanks Howard! Makes complete sense, and has now "clicked" for me in a way that I've simply overlooked all along. 

 

Again, I really appreciate your patience in answering these questions. I'm sure since you know this topic inside and out, some of these inquiries probably seem very elementary. Would imagine it's what I feel like when I have to explain to my 6 year old how change the TV input from AV to Cable for the 178th time.

It will always be like that, and this subject is not even known good among club makers, so i cant expect hobbyists and players to get it all at once.

I can see now that i should edit the main post, and make better markings on important texts, plus a few charts who explain it all visual, but the back ground for it all seems to have been the "loft sickness" (stronger lofts)

The shafts we play (like Dynamic gold), was designed back in 1942, and a PW back then was 50-52, and the only wedge on top was the sand wedge. Back then they knew that we should have flex progression all the way in clubs we used for full swing, but after the PW became a #9 iron for loft, we start soft stepping TOO early

If the GW is played like a #11 iron, we should use a "GW shaft", and thats what this tread is all about.
if SW and Lob is only partials, use the same GW shaft for those clubs....just like it was back in the old days.

So its nothing new really, just the knowledge of that spin drops and launch might get too high when we start soft stepping too early, so its really ONLY a NATURAL iron flex progression slope we extend all the way to the last club played to full swing, typical the GW.

For the DESCENDING weight shaft player, where a half flex or full flex option above exist, we should go by what deliver the shaft WEIGHT that works the best, since the iron shaft will be very light when we get down to GW using the IRON shaft and just tip trim for GW.


 

[Habitual Flipper]

Thanks for this post, really great info.

 

I'm considering this for my set, just looking to confirm before I start pulling and chopping:

 

[Howard_Jones]

2 hours ago, Habitual Flipper said:

Thanks for this post, really great info.

 

I'm considering this for my set, just looking to confirm before I start pulling and chopping:

 

How did you get to those?
it does not match whats written in this treat, so i dont know why you think it should be like that

[Habitual Flipper]

57 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

How did you get to those?
it does not match whats written in this treat, so i dont know why you think it should be like that

Hi Howard - I thought I could change my PW, GW, SW and LW based off of this post:

 

And based off of your first post, you said you could also tip PW→LW 3/8" to further tune the shafts.

On 2/16/2022 at 7:26 AM, Howard_Jones said:

TUNING OPTION – 3/8” TIP TRIM
In ALL cases where we either use a full flex stronger #8 iron shaft “strait in”, or use a “half flex stronger” PW shaft strait in, we MIGHT consider to tip trim the shaft 3/8” to maximize spin. This option could be used for all 4 wedges from PW to LOB wedge. For the PW is a good idea if the #9 is the shortest and strongest. That moves us closer to the dedicated PW shaft TT don’t make anymore.

 

 

 

Edited March 1, 2023 by Habitual Flipper

[Howard_Jones]

14 minutes ago, Habitual Flipper said:

Hi Howard - I thought I could change my PW, GW, SW and LW based off of this post:

 

And based off of your first post, you said you could also tip PW→LW 3/8" to further tune the shafts.

 

A shaft set should have a natural progression slope, you make a BIG jump from #9 to PW, where you go almost 2 shafts stronger insted of 1.

If you played HARD STEPPED irons, it would be the ticked, but since your iron shafts is strait in, that PW is "over done".

Your options for the PW, is either to tip trim a X100 #9 shaft, OR use DG X7 - #7 iron shaft strait in, - NOT a tip trimmed #8
A standard X7 #8 fits the slot of the GW, so your PW becomes hard stepped once PLUS 3/8" tip trim...that shaft will NOT feel like the others, since our target is to fit the slot strait in, relative to irons

Yes there is a tuning option, but tuning for the sake of tuning without knowing what we do is NOT a good idea, so even if it can be done, i dont think that will feel good or natural since its over done vs iron shaft flex for both the PW and GW

Edited March 1, 2023 by Howard_Jones

[Habitual Flipper]

1 minute ago, Howard_Jones said:

Yes, but you are walking over the river and back again...

A shaft set should have a natural progression slope, you make a BIG jump from #9 to PW, where you go almost 2 shafts stronger insted of 1.
If you played HARD STEPPED irons, it would be the ticked, but since your iron shafts is strait in, that PW is "over done".

Your options for the PW, is either to tip trim a X100 #9 shaft, OR use DG X7 - #7 iron shaft strait in, - NOT a tip trimmed #8
A standard X7 #8 fits the slot of the GW, so your PW becomes hard stepped once PLUS 3/8" tip trim...that shaft will NOT feel like the others.

Yes there is a tuning option, but tuning for the sake of tuning without knowing what we do is NOT a good idea, so even if it can be done, it dont think that will feel good or natural since its over done vs iron shaft flex for both the PW and GW

 

ahhh right, thanks for pointing that out! I'll keep it simple (stupid... me).

 

PW → TT DG X7 ( 7i shaft) - butt trimmed to standard playing length

GW → TT DG X7 ( 8i shaft) - butt trimmed to standard playing length

SW → TT DG X7 ( 8i shaft) - butt trimmed to standard playing length

LW → TT DG X7 ( 8i shaft) - butt trimmed to standard playing length

[Howard_Jones]

1 minute ago, Habitual Flipper said:

 

ahhh right, thanks for pointing that out! I'll keep it simple (stupid... me).

 

PW → TT DG X7 ( 7i shaft) - butt trimmed to standard playing length

GW → TT DG X7 ( 8i shaft) - butt trimmed to standard playing length

SW → TT DG X7 ( 8i shaft) - butt trimmed to standard playing length

LW → TT DG X7 ( 8i shaft) - butt trimmed to standard playing length

if you play X100 strait in, THAT will be the natural extension of your iron shafts into wedges.

[Seamus_McDuff]

What’s the downside of going

 

SW → TT DG X7 ( 9i shaft) - butt trimmed to standard playing length

LW → TT DG X7 ( 9i shaft) - possibly tip-trimmed, butt trimmed to standard playing length

[Howard_Jones]

6 minutes ago, Seamus_McDuff said:

What’s the downside of going

 

 

SW → TT DG X7 ( 9i shaft) - butt trimmed to standard playing length

LW → TT DG X7 ( 9i shaft) - possibly tip-trimmed, butt trimmed to standard playing length

Do you play this clubs to full swings like they was irons?
If you DONT, its no need for further flex progression, so the possible down side is a feel you dont like (too strong), but feel is personal , but what we try here is to extend the iron shaft series with shafts that feels natural and works as they should all the way to the last club played to full swing, typical the GW. From that club and further, soft stepping (using the same shaft as for GW), for both SW and LW is the norm.

 

[st1800e]

Have read through this several times.  Appreciate the insight Howard has and continues to provide. 
maybe I missed it..

It would seem to me that the length and head weights of the Gap, sand and lob wedges would be an integral part of the calculation.  For instance if those 3 heads weigh the same and are played at the same length as the PW shaft, no different shaft is required?   In other words does all this relate to headweight and length to achieve a target flex slope?