distance debate

[golfer07840]

19 hours ago, Simpsonia said:

 

Does anyone actually think that the end proposals that are actually adopted by the USGA are going to be enough for the rollbackers? My guess is that they will adopt one or two of the half dozen or more proposals discussed, rollback total distance by ~3-5%, roll out the Mission Accomplished sign. So it will be A) not enough for the rollbackers (especially the toaster on a stick crowd); B) not enough to actually put a dent in bomb and gouge; C) also piss off the non-rollbackers, because what the hell was the point then. I mean that sounds about right with their track record, right? 

 

From ThinkingPlus' posts, it sounds like they've already abandoned a handful of the ideas that had been studying.   

I spoke with two teaching PGA pros at my local range, both are pretty dialed in with what's going on. 

 

Both told me flat out, USGA, in the end, will probably either do nothing at all or so little we won't notice. Which is to your point; what the hell is all of this for? 

[golfer07840]

1 hour ago, gvogel said:

This just in: Jordan Spieth thinks that The Old Course will be too easy unless the wind blows and the course gets really firm.  Just a wedge contest, he said.

 

Gee, imagine that, a course designed in 1863 is on the easy side. Especially when there is no wind and the fairways are going to be like runways.

 

I read Speith's comments this morning and I just knew you guys would be all mover this. 

[clevited]

1 hour ago, gvogel said:

After reading this thread, I am glad that the USGA/R&A are studying the distance issue.  I support the primary suggestions they have determined for regulating distance in the coming years - changing the overall distance measurement for balls using higher swing speed, rolling back the spring face for drivers (and fairway woods, I hope), and rolling back driver MOI.

 

I just wish they had instituted these changes 10 years ago, when I first wrote a letter to the USGA expressing that driving distance had become a problem.  But, better late than never.

 

You went out of your way to write them a letter to complain about driving distance??????

 

 

 

[Double Mocha Man]

10 minutes ago, clevited said:

You went out of your way to write them a letter to complain about driving distance??????

 

That's about the same time I wrote them a letter complaining about too many putts rolling into the hole.

[golfer07840]

18 minutes ago, clevited said:

 

You went out of your way to write them a letter to complain about driving distance??????

 

 

 

I wonder if in the year 2002 when he flushed a ProV1 he went "oh no, that's too far!!"

[Rweaves6]

At the end of the day, like everything, won’t the free market dictate how this plays out? More specifically, doesn’t money talk above anything else?

1) What “sells” when it comes to pro golf ratings and viewership? I’m pretty sure it’s Distance and always has.

Don’t most viewers want to see distance? ‘Radar’ Reid never missed a fairway in his entire career yet I’m not sure his gallery was ever larger than his family. John Daly is one of the most recognizable golfers and it’s not because of his musical talent or being an honorary member of Hootie and the blowfish. 

 

2) As a retail business owner myself, I couldn’t imagine selling anything with promises of (~20%) less performance than the previous model. I don’t imagine the golf equipment companies are thinking that would be good for business.
 

Maybe I’m wrong but when I view the world, I see that money talks, and it’s the loudest voice in the room. Always will be. 

[buckeyefl]

On 7/6/2022 at 11:00 PM, smashdn said:

Tee it Forward?

Play Nine?

The whole Greens Section?

They've created an APP for the rules with the interpretations and diagrams.

 

They aren't flawless but they're often doing more good than not.

 

The elite clubs in the northeast as you put it are the historically significant ones from an architectural standpoint and from a history of competitive golf standpoint as well. It is that way because that was where the population centers were and where the money was that built the courses.

 

That's sort of like complaining that the US Yachting Association doesn't pay enough attention to the state of Arizona.

You needed someone to tell you to tee it forward?

You needed someone to tell you that you can play nine holes if you are short on time?

Rule books are "free" and there's a thing called the INTERNET.

 

Aren't flawless? They are inept elitist swine that rarely do what best for the game but instead what's best for their opinion. Its oddly enough very similar to the rollback gang. 

[buckeyefl]

3 hours ago, gvogel said:

After reading this thread, I am glad that the USGA/R&A are studying the distance issue.  I support the primary suggestions they have determined for regulating distance in the coming years - changing the overall distance measurement for balls using higher swing speed, rolling back the spring face for drivers (and fairway woods, I hope), and rolling back driver MOI.

 

I just wish they had instituted these changes 10 years ago, when I first wrote a letter to the USGA expressing that driving distance had become a problem.  But, better late than never.

 

If only they had listened to your opinion and changed the whole game to meet your standards. Oh how they missed the boat.

 

Some of your egos are beyond measure.

[buckeyefl]

On 7/6/2022 at 12:54 PM, MattC555 said:

 That example is dated though.  The big bombers aren't hitting 300 yards today.  They are 325 yards and higher. 

 

Here are Rory's numbers:

 

 

So, by your logic he'd be driver, PW.  5% less driver(310 yards) leaves 165 yards which is 8i(5% less 175 yards).  And that logic only works if you're limiting distance with the ball.  If they just roll back the driver you'll still have him hitting 9 iron.  Big whoop.  And that assumes he just doesn't swing harder with driver.  He hit 190mph ball speed pretty easily in a Taylormade video yielding a carry of over 346 yards(5% less being 328 yards).  The drop would have to be at least 10%, probably more, and it has to hit all clubs - meaning a ball change.  

 

No he didn't do it easily. 

 

Those aren't his stock yardages for driver either. More cherry picking by a website looking for hits.

 

Also using the 2021 number 2 in driving distance player as an example is sort of sad. Some of you need to learn about outliers. BTW tour players are ALL outliers. 

Edited July 8, 2022 by buckeyefl

[So_Cal]

1 hour ago, Rweaves6 said:

At the end of the day, like everything, won’t the free market dictate how this plays out? More specifically, doesn’t money talk above anything else?

1) What “sells” when it comes to pro golf ratings and viewership? I’m pretty sure it’s Distance and always has.

Don’t most viewers want to see distance? ‘Radar’ Reid never missed a fairway in his entire career yet I’m not sure his gallery was ever larger than his family. John Daly is one of the most recognizable golfers and it’s not because of his musical talent or being an honorary member of Hootie and the blowfish. 

 

2) As a retail business owner myself, I couldn’t imagine selling anything with promises of (~20%) less performance than the previous model. I don’t imagine the golf equipment companies are thinking that would be good for business.
 

Maybe I’m wrong but when I view the world, I see that money talks, and it’s the loudest voice in the room. Always will be. 

Ratings are bad and they always will be without Tiger IMO.  Driver wedge is boring.  Diversity of skill and shot values are exciting to me.  Golf is a niche sport though.  
 

Bifurcation does nothing to hurt performance of the average hack.  This is about +6 handicaps and better, which almost nobody in here is. 

[buckeyefl]

1 hour ago, golfer07840 said:

I wonder if in the year 2002 when he flushed a ProV1 he went "oh no, that's too far!!"

Pathetic, isn't it?

[buckeyefl]

Just now, So_Cal said:

Ratings are bad and they always will be without Tiger IMO.  Driver wedge is boring.  Diversity of skill and shot values are exciting to me.  Golf is a niche sport though.  
 

Bifurcation does nothing to hurt performance of the average hack.  This is about +6 handicaps and better, which almost nobody in here is. 

Again with the driver/wedge lie. You have zero credibility at this point with all of the lies and misleading information you post.

 

Bifurcation damages the game historically and in spirit. part of the appeal is golf is you can play the same venues and use the same equipment as the people some like to watch on tv.

[So_Cal]

4 minutes ago, buckeyefl said:

Again with the driver/wedge lie. You have zero credibility at this point with all of the lies and misleading information you post.

 

Bifurcation damages the game historically and in spirit. part of the appeal is golf is you can play the same venues and use the same equipment as the people some like to watch on tv.

With all due respect sir, you continue to attack me and I politely decline to engage.  I wish you well. 

[TLUBulldogGolf]

10 minutes ago, buckeyefl said:

No he didn't do it easily. 

 

Those aren't his stock yardages for driver either. More cherry picking by a website looking for hits.

 

Also using the 2021 number 2 in driving distance player as an example is sort of sad. Some of you need to learn about outliers. BTW tour players are ALL outliers. 

 

Yeah man, that's why the roll back is focused on them..

 

What's his stock yardage then? 

 

Can I use the tour as a whole or is that more cherry picking? Which stats are acceptable? 

[smashdn]

13 minutes ago, buckeyefl said:

You needed someone to tell you to tee it forward?

You needed someone to tell you that you can play nine holes if you are short on time?

Rule books are "free" and there's a thing called the INTERNET.

 

Aren't flawless? They are inept elitist swine that rarely do what best for the game but instead what's best for their opinion. Its oddly enough very similar to the rollback gang. 

Jeez.  Must suck going through life feeling some faceless org has jilted you so badly.  Like you were personally wronged.

 

Again I read opinion with no direct evidence and actions that have irreparably damaged the game.

 

I'm not trying to give them a pass but jeez the usga and r&a don't seem to be tearing it apart the way some of you make it out.

 

I lay inaction and when they do act it is ineffective and usually late, but what else?  And I don't see "well they are elitist" and "they dont do nothin'" as much to get incredibly riled over.

[TLUBulldogGolf]

1 hour ago, Rweaves6 said:

At the end of the day, like everything, won’t the free market dictate how this plays out? More specifically, doesn’t money talk above anything else?

1) What “sells” when it comes to pro golf ratings and viewership? I’m pretty sure it’s Distance and always has.

Don’t most viewers want to see distance? ‘Radar’ Reid never missed a fairway in his entire career yet I’m not sure his gallery was ever larger than his family. John Daly is one of the most recognizable golfers and it’s not because of his musical talent or being an honorary member of Hootie and the blowfish. 

 

2) As a retail business owner myself, I couldn’t imagine selling anything with promises of (~20%) less performance than the previous model. I don’t imagine the golf equipment companies are thinking that would be good for business.
 

Maybe I’m wrong but when I view the world, I see that money talks, and it’s the loudest voice in the room. Always will be. 

 

And if the free market eventually says courses are too expensive so they close or become increasingly inaccessible? Not saying it won't be figured out if equipment doesn't change but it's something to think about.

 

The ratings are pretty much down to 'is Tiger playing' or big events. Not seeing any sort of trend in ratings due to distance. 

Edited July 8, 2022 by TLUBulldogGolf

[bekgolf]

2 minutes ago, TLUBulldogGolf said:

 

And if the free market eventually says courses are too expensive and they close or it passes onto the consumer? Not saying it won't be figured out if equipment doesn't change but it's something to think about.

 

The ratings are pretty much down to 'is Tiger playing' or big events. Not seeing any sort of trend in ratings due to distance. 

 

I'm an outlier then.  I would specifically watch events Bryson was in just to see him go all in on the drive.  It either turned out great or it was a crash and burn. 

 

I love to see someone take on the course with risk/reward shots, it's exciting.

[Simpsonia]

18 minutes ago, buckeyefl said:

Again with the driver/wedge lie. You have zero credibility at this point with all of the lies and misleading information you post.

 

Bifurcation damages the game historically and in spirit. part of the appeal is golf is you can play the same venues and use the same equipment as the people some like to watch on tv.

 

That's if the OEM community as a whole even decides bifurcation would even be worth it. Hard to effectively advertise to the hacker community when the biggest piece of advertising (watching Rory and co smash with those same pieces of equipment) isn't allowed anymore. Not to mention how expensive it would be to essentially have to double-up on both research budgets and production lines (one for non-competitive Ams, and one for competition). 

 

As a reminder, there is literally nothing stopping Callaway et al from manufacturing a 600cc driver head and marketing it as the most forgiving driver ever made targeting the average municipal 30 cap. They don't for a reason. 

[TLUBulldogGolf]

4 minutes ago, bekgolf said:

 

I'm an outlier then.  I would specifically watch events Bryson was in just to see him go all in on the drive.  It either turned out great or it was a crash and burn. 

 

I love to see someone take on the course with risk/reward shots, it's exciting.

 

I personally can't stand him but the type of thing he was doing had the potential to move the needle, though not to the degree Tiger did, because he was doing things we hadn't seen. Spieth and Rory are probably the closest now because they do exciting things on the course. 

[bekgolf]

2 minutes ago, TLUBulldogGolf said:

 

I personally can't stand him but the type of thing he was doing had the potential to move the needle, though not to the degree Tiger did, because he was doing things we hadn't seen. Spieth and Rory are probably the closest now because they do exciting things on the course. 

 

Tiger is one of a kind.  I'm not sure if we will ever see another player dominate golf like did.  Hopefully he's got a few w's left to get.  I'd sure like to see it and yes, I'm one of those guys who will make time to watch if Tiger is playing.

 

 

[buckeyefl]

47 minutes ago, So_Cal said:

With all due respect sir, you continue to attack me and I politely decline to engage.  I wish you well. 

I am not attacking you I am flat out calling out your lies. Anyone can go through this thread and see you repeatedly making things up to try to secure your opinion. It's sad really.

 

Its best that you don't engage as you wouldn't have  a leg to stand on unless you went on a massive editing campaign.

[buckeyefl]

2 hours ago, golfer07840 said:

 

Gee, imagine that, a course designed in 1863 is on the easy side. Especially when there is no wind and the fairways are going to be like runways.

 

I read Speith's comments this morning and I just knew you guys would be all mover this. 

Its as predictable as the sun rising in the east.

[So_Cal]

3 minutes ago, buckeyefl said:

I am not attacking you I am flat out calling out your lies. Anyone can go through this thread and see you repeatedly making things up to try to secure your opinion. It's sad really.

 

Its best that you don't engage as you wouldn't have  a leg to stand on unless you went on a massive editing campaign.

I could say the same thing about you but I will maintain the high ground. 

[buckeyefl]

1 minute ago, So_Cal said:

I could say the same thing about you but I will maintain the high ground. 

Lol actually no you cant,but feel free to try. I am not the one who lies and exaggerates constantly on this topic.

Edited July 8, 2022 by buckeyefl

[golfer07840]

54 minutes ago, TLUBulldogGolf said:

 

And if the free market eventually says courses are too expensive so they close or become increasingly inaccessible? Not saying it won't be figured out if equipment doesn't change but it's something to think about.

 

The ratings are pretty much down to 'is Tiger playing' or big events. Not seeing any sort of trend in ratings due to distance. 

All the courses have gone up in my area. 

 

Is this because Rory drives it 300 yards? 

 

Do you all hear yourselves right now? At this point you've all become a cult. 

 

 

[TLUBulldogGolf]

3 minutes ago, golfer07840 said:

All the courses have gone up in my area. 

 

Is this because Rory drives it 300 yards? 

 

Do you all hear yourselves right now? At this point you've all become a cult. 

 

 

 

It was a hypothetical but thank you for continually adding nothing to the discussion. 

[golfer07840]

Just now, TLUBulldogGolf said:

 

It was a hypothetical but thank you for continually adding nothing to the discussion. 

There's literally nothing to discuss. 

 

Until something actually happens (and I doubt it will) this is all conjecture. 

 

 

[Golferpaul]

On 6/27/2022 at 10:37 AM, caniac6 said:

Most of the guys I play with have bad holes because they hit bad tee shots. The added distance equals longer shots in the woods.

I agree.  I drive into the woods will likely cost you two shots.  A three-putt only costs you one.

[Titleist99]

5 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

 

That's about the same time I wrote them a letter complaining about too many putts rolling into the hole.

Thanks to my 100 letters to the USGA you guys can now keep the pin in while putting.....LOL!

[MattC555]

3 hours ago, buckeyefl said:

No he didn't do it easily. 

 

Those aren't his stock yardages for driver either. More cherry picking by a website looking for hits.

 

Also using the 2021 number 2 in driving distance player as an example is sort of sad. Some of you need to learn about outliers. BTW tour players are ALL outliers. 

 

You realize your reply puts you in favor of the person I was replying to, who looking to limit distance.  I don't want them to change anything.  You're arguing with the wrong guy.  hahahaha