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Low lofted forgiving driver vs low spin head


NoHYBNoFW
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Loft is a huge component of keeping a driver a low spin, therefore it would be hard to find a 7 degree head that was not relatively low spinning.  But I understand your ideology I do think that most would benefit over a lower lofted head that is more forgiving (weight back, or shallower face) versus a higher lofted/deep faced driver with the weight forward.

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For me, I want to see optimal numbers in terms of launch, spin, smash and face angle.  I've played a 10.5 head and a as low as a 7.5.  The 10.5 will in most cases be more forgiving as it will spin more than super low loft head.  As a result I would hit more fairways with the higher loft head but at the same time sacrifice some distance.  However, with that being said, when I nut one with the 7.5 head, it would hit the optimal launch window and roll out creating max distance for me.  Nowadays I play 9* head which sits right in between and gives me the best chance hitting my optimal numbers without too much sacrifice to distance. 

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3 hours ago, NoHYBNoFW said:

Is it better to play a 7 degree forgiving driver head or a 10.5 low spinning head.

 

Anybody have done this before please share outcome.

 

You won't get a good answer to your question, because your question isn't very good. You'll get plenty of answers from people that mean well, that worked for them, but you'll be hard pressed to find the one that translates to something meaningfully useful for you. That means finding someone who mirrors your swing speed and swing mechanics, along with playing the same shaft, total club weight, and swingweight.

 

As @phizzy30 stated, you want optimal numbers. Prioritize smash factor, face to path, then launch/spin window, in that order.

 

Smash factor is largely a product of delivery, which is largely a product of a properly fitting shaft profile, overall club weight, and swingweight, which are all independent of the actual club head. These days, most heads have adjustable weights and lead tape exists: you can make any head the right weight. Face to path is more complex, but other than swing mechanics, that's mostly weight/balance as well. Once you have those down, you can dial in launch and spin. This is where the head comes in to play. Actual loft, MOI, and VCOG are the main factors driving this.

 

Here's what happened to me this year:

I play a Cobra F9 head (released Jan 2019). I was playing a 10.5 head (mid spin model) which was great for a long time. Good launch and spin, plenty of roll, and "forgiving" in the sense that it was very consistent and I could generally get the same result even when I swung poorly. Until this year, when I developed proper mechanics and gained a bunch of speed. Then what was "forgiving" became unforgiving. Launched way too high, spun way too much, and went left right and center while ballooning and landing like a flighted 9 iron. It seemed like unless I was hitting it exactly perfectly, I couldn't get it to even balloon in the right direction. Driver fitting got me a better shaft, but current heads didn't fit the bill and I was advised to loft down. Turned it down to 9* using the adapter and it launched lower but still ballooned like mad and shaped when I didn't mean it to. I even got an 8* Sim 2 Max head, and it sucked hard for me, still somehow launched way too high and ballooned like mad, even when I turned it down to 6*.

 

I bought a second hand F9 head out of desperation at 9* (low spin model) and I was suddenly sending consistent high baby fades again. I turned it down to the 8* setting with draw bias and I am damn near automatic right now. Straight and I can work it both ways.

 

Does it mirror your story? No. Doesn't even answer the question because I only did one of what you asked for. But what it does illustrate is optimal launch patterns matter more than perceived forgiveness. The 10.5* model was the mid forgiveness, mid spin model and it was awfully "unforgiving". The 9* model is the low forgiveness, low spin model and it is very "forgiving" right now. The club that fits is true forgiveness.

 

 

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Taylor made’s ad campaign for the slider was loft up. It does work.  High launch with low spin works.  Forgiving set low would work but if your swing is flat or down through the ball Taylor’s add campaign should be your path.   

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6 hours ago, Zena said:

Smash factor is largely a product of delivery, which is largely a product of a properly fitting shaft profile, overall club weight, and swingweight, which are all independent of the actual club head.

 

Most important part of the post  - but don't forget properly fit playing length - that should actually be at the top of the list.

 

 

6 hours ago, Zena said:

Face to path is more complex, but other than swing mechanics, that's mostly weight/balance as well. 

 

Face angle can play a really big part for some - and that will be a function of the head model selected.  Although with adjustable hosels, many head models can achieve a decent range of face angles to support the customers needs.

 

 

6 hours ago, Zena said:

 

 

Once you have those down, you can dial in launch and spin. This is where the head comes in to play. Actual loft, MOI, and VCOG are the main factors driving this.

 

And then it commonly (although not always) comes down to the basic choice of whether greater forgiveness or lowering spin is more important to the individual.   e.g.  Someone who is able to get very consistent center face impact may not get a lot of benefit from the added forgiveness of a high MOI design.

 

Edited by Stuart_G
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My experience - it really boils down to what you prefer from a feel standpoint.  I do believe there is a limit to where too much MOI can start limiting peak performance however.  Ideal strike for ideal strike, the more forward CG head is going to be capable of faster ball speed and some freak launch conditions if you catch it slightly high in the head.  You won't get that nuke long ball with the higher MOI head in my experience.  

 

I swap between a lower lofted TSi2 head and an OG Sim head.  The TSi2 is consistently straighter, but it doesn't have the long ball low spin nuke in it, even with a strike slightly above center.  I think the high MOI just keeps things consistent (which is the goal of the design!!).  The Sim however you can strike it slightly high and you get the freak high launch / low spin floater that just goes for days.  Also is a lot less stable on shots away from center.  

 

If you want the freak long ball shot in your arsenal, go with the lower spin design.

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How the head/loft looks will likely make a difference in how you swing it. 
 

Example: In the fitting for my current driver we started more in the 9* range mainly because it’s closer to what I’ve always played. In the end I wound up in a 10.5*. Now, we were back to back with the otherwise identical heads in identical shafts. In theory the only difference should’ve been height snd spin. In reality my dispersion was different along with the move I was making. I suspect my brain thought the lower loft needed my body to do something different. 
 

FWIW the end result is about as happy as I’ve ever been with driver and it’s also the highest loft I’ve played in decades. It is a lower spin head which is what we expected going in.

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If this is a general question I think going with more forgiveness in a lower loft is a good idea, of course I probably think that because it's what I'm doing. I have a TaylorMade SIM MAX D head that is lofted down to 9°. I don't know if I'm giving up distance on perfect strikes because I probably don't have the speed to properly utilize a low spin head. If you have the speed, then probably a low spin head in higher loft would be a better idea.

 

 

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I think you are thinking of this wrong. It's all going to depend on how you hit you your driver (attack angle wise). So I know I hit up on a driver between 3°-5°. Because of this I play an 7.5° driver. This gives me a launch between 11° and 13°. Once you know this, showing "high" vs "low" spin heads is easy. I choose "high" spin or "forgiving" heads because I don't add extra spin to a driver through delivery. 

 

If you were the opposite, and hit down on a driver, you'd need more loft to get proper launch, and a "low spin" head to manage excess spin that comes from delivery. 

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14 hours ago, schaperb90 said:

I think you are thinking of this wrong. It's all going to depend on how you hit you your driver (attack angle wise). So I know I hit up on a driver between 3°-5°. Because of this I play an 7.5° driver. This gives me a launch between 11° and 13°. Once you know this, showing "high" vs "low" spin heads is easy. I choose "high" spin or "forgiving" heads because I don't add extra spin to a driver through delivery. 

 

If you were the opposite, and hit down on a driver, you'd need more loft to get proper launch, and a "low spin" head to manage excess spin that comes from delivery. 

 

Actually, it's about dynamic loft delivered.   Don't assume that dynamic loft always shifts with AoA.   

 

Most am's who hit up on the ball (or try to) don't do it in what many instructors think of as the ideal way.  They end up with the hands too far behind the ball at impact which generates a lot of dynamic loft which has to be "fixed" with a low static loft.

 

More ideally (if you buy in to that instruction theory) the upward AoA at impact comes from the hands working up and not from the club head working up relative to the hands.   That means they get the positive AoA without adding a lot of dynamic loft.  e.g. hands are much further forward and less reverse shaft lean at impact.   Those individuals (like most pros) do not need super low static head lofts to get good numbers.

 

 

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You have nailed it...my AOA and dynamic loft is so height, I send my drives to lob wedge heights or even more. My carry is around 250 and I can gain distance if I can bring my dynamic loft and launch angle down.

My current gamer is a 10.5 radspeed xb lofted down to 9.

 

Since I gave up on fixing the swing, was looking to lower the statc loft, but not sure which head to get a forgiving head like G425 Max lofted down to 7 or a low spin head in 9/10.5, hence this thread

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13 hours ago, NoHYBNoFW said:

You have nailed it...my AOA and dynamic loft is so height, I send my drives to lob wedge heights or even more. My carry is around 250 and I can gain distance if I can bring my dynamic loft and launch angle down.

My current gamer is a 10.5 radspeed xb lofted down to 9.

 

Since I gave up on fixing the swing, was looking to lower the statc loft, but not sure which head to get a forgiving head like G425 Max lofted down to 7 or a low spin head in 9/10.5, hence this thread

 

Which you'd be better off with depends so much on face impact location and consistency.   So go ahead and try both and see what happens to the numbers.

 

But more people in that situation have had better success just by not trying to hit up on the ball so much.  Doesn't usually require much of a significant change to the swing.  Sometimes it's just as easy as teeing it up lower and/or further back in the stance to prevent you from being able to get too high an AoA (and therefore too high a Dynamic loft).  Most will be able to adjust to those changes fairly automatically with a little practice.    Or alternatively if you want to be a bit more technical about it, just a little less secondary tilt in the back swing is usually all it takes.

Edited by Stuart_G
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10 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

But more people in that situation have had better success just by not trying to hit up on the ball so much. 

 

I had a hard time with this, was finally able to change it about 10 years ago.  The "how" was playing a set of Eye2+ for a year.  🙂

 

I was already a high trajectory player,, and the Eye2+ went even higher.  Over the course of a year, I managed to bring the flight down, which bled into my tee game.  Voila!  No more 7* drivers.  LOL

 

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