Dominant leg determines swing mechanics?

[Soloman1]

Sometimes we change. And sometimes a static test is biased toward a pattern that has been ingrained, rather than a pivot more suited to a player.

 

Gaining or losing weight, aging, mobility, injuries, etc., can affect post.

 

For example, I had a student recently, a GolfWRX guy, with good athletic ability and speed, who was simply not the same person as he was when he was younger. He didn’t/couldn’t get to his lead side as fast as years ago.

 

Thin, fat, push, pull, etc.

 

After 6 or 7 repetitions of a drill to get him feeling the movements for a front post, his task was to hit a half swing, 100 yard max 8-iron. It carried 150, high (his swing speed is good), with a drop left from the top. He never hit a bad shot after that. 160 carry with what felt like a 3/4 swing to him.

 

Sometimes there are changes that can immediately change your game.

[Scottbox]

6 hours ago, Nels55 said:

Sounds like a great experience.  I really Dr. Lynn's approach to golf, he seems to be always trying to learn and at the same time he likes to help others to improve their swings using the knowledge that he has accumulated up to this point.  

 

Front post is similar to Wright Balance upper core swing.  Have you checked out any of Larry Rinker's videos at all?  

That's not exactly true. I happen to be a mid-core player. Where you "post" generally affects how you use your lower body, if anything. I need to push back and up with my lead foot, knee, and hip, with my upper body following and turning through quicker than I'm used to, but only because I'm so in-to-out with my path and swing direction and I'm used to using too much lateral movement. A slicer may need more "separation" between upper and lower halves.

Edited May 3, 2023 by Scottbox

[Nels55]

On 2/11/2023 at 6:21 AM, Soloman1 said:

 

Uh, no. It was before Kwon “found” it.

 

It’s about finding an optimum swing based on movements that match. The static test is different than a dynamic test. People may post differently in a full swing because of a pattern they’ve ingrained, but that may not be optimal or a more natural pivot.

 

They have modified things over the years to continually improve results, based on results. They aren’t trying to prove a theory, they test ideas and no matter how much time that takes, discard ones that don’t prove out. And other times they discover a pattern in the process with an open mind.

 

It’s not a “swing like this” for everyone. It’s “swing like this for you.”

 

I traveled the world with these guys and have seen the results over and over for years. They are the most sincere guys and relentless about making other instructors and people better faster.

I've looked at Kuchar's stats and he never gained 10mph of clubhead speed with his driver that I could see.  Also, since he was still lacking efficiency when Dr. Kwon tested him it seems that the fix that added clubhead speed did not stick?

[Soloman1]

That was years ago. As glk said above, some people are reluctant to change. The guy is either in or near top ten in scoring, so probably more distance wasn’t what he needed.

[Mono]

can you share the drill for a front post?

[RichieHunt]

I didn't see this thread until now.  I'll have to watch the videos in full.  

 

I tend to think I'm naturally more of a vertical force player.  I'd bet money that I'm right leg (trail leg) dominant.  But I'd have to work with somebody like Dr. Lynn to feel comfortable in confirming it.

 

I think one can learn a different force if they work on it hard on it enough.  When I was working with George Gankas I had about a year where I was striking the ball really well and swinging well.  Here's one of my swings from then.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B6UKyaVlZfV/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

 

The problem was eventually I 'lost' my swing.  And I think I figured out why from Dr. Lynn's latest video with Be Better Golf where he states that if you're more of a rotational force player the hands need to be lower at p4 and if you're more of a vertical force player you need the hands higher at p4.

 

Traditionally I've played with high hands.  But I think GG generally teaches a rotational force downswing (and I think Dr. Lynn would agree) and I worked at it enough to become more rotational and lowered my hands at p4 (that's low for me) in order to make the swing work.  

 

Problem was that since I'm so used to high hands and naturally more vertical force over time I would start to mix-match components.

 

Now I'm trying to get more vertical force components involved and then trying to train for them.  Problem is that he shows a bunch of training methods in his webinar but doesn't show the training method for vertical force using your trail leg.

 

 

 

RH

 

 

[Nels55]

5 hours ago, RichieHunt said:

Now I'm trying to get more vertical force components involved and then trying to train for them.  Problem is that he shows a bunch of training methods in his webinar but doesn't show the training method for vertical force using your trail leg.

 

 

Okay, I thought that vertical force was always a lead leg deal?  

[Nels55]

12 hours ago, Soloman1 said:

That was years ago. As glk said above, some people are reluctant to change. The guy is either in or near top ten in scoring, so probably more distance wasn’t what he needed.

You know I take all of the speed gain claims that I see with a grain of salt.  LOL I routinely pick up ten mph clubhead speed while practicing just by getting all sweaty and maybe figuring something out or simply swinging faster.  Kuchar does not look like he is swinging all that hard when he is competing and I bet that he can add 10 mph to his driver if he really wants to go after one.  

[Soloman1]

Some people hit it straighter or with the ball flight they want, and others don’t with the speed increase. Confidence to take anything new to the course is individual. I would also say that most guys are not holding back much, if any, regardless of how smooth it looks.

 

Remember that we hate the way things are, and we hate change. 😉

 

[Soloman1]

1 hour ago, Nels55 said:

 

Okay, I thought that vertical force was always a lead leg deal?  

Depends on post.

[Soloman1]

8 hours ago, Mono said:

can you share the drill for a front post?

I prefer not to. I’m sincere when I say that I just don’t want to get all the comments about how I’m doing it all wrong.

[GolfTurkey]

2 hours ago, Soloman1 said:

I prefer not to. I’m sincere when I say that I just don’t want to get all the comments about how I’m doing it all wrong.

 

Well that's because you're doing it all wrong.

 

Now that you have received that feedback already, there's no reason not to share the drill 😝

Edited May 4, 2023 by GolfTurkey

[Nels55]

9 hours ago, Nels55 said:

15 hours ago, RichieHunt said:

Now I'm trying to get more vertical force components involved and then trying to train for them.  Problem is that he shows a bunch of training methods in his webinar but doesn't show the training method for vertical force using your trail leg.

 

 

Okay, I thought that vertical force was always a lead leg deal?  

 

8 hours ago, Soloman1 said:

Depends on post.

 

I don't see how.  The order is horizontal, rotational and then vertical so to my knowledge vertical is always after the shift to the lead leg.  If you have an example of Mike Adams or Dr. Lynn teaching a vertical force with the trail leg I would like to see it!  LOL there are a lot of things that I don't understand and maybe this is one of them.

Edited May 4, 2023 by Nels55

[Nels55]

18 hours ago, Nels55 said:

 

 

I don't see how.  The order is horizontal, rotational and then vertical so to my knowledge vertical is always after the shift to the lead leg.  If you have an example of Mike Adams or Dr. Lynn teaching a vertical force with the trail leg I would like to see it!  LOL there are a lot of things that I don't understand and maybe this is one of them.

Okay, I guess that I can answer my own question here LOL.  Near the end of this video Dr. Scott Lynn demoes vertical force and it looks like the force is produced by both legs which is different from what I was thinking.  I actually had thought about it though and I was thinking that might be the case considering what the jumpers among tour pros look like at impact.

 

 

Interesting info in this video!  I have tended to hook a lot and I definitely also tend to slide too far past my lead leg and I had noticed that reducing the slide also reduces the tendency to hook the ball.  Nice for me to see why.  I think that these guys are the real deal and know what the heck they are talking about.

[RichieHunt]

On 5/3/2023 at 2:54 AM, Nels55 said:

I've looked at Kuchar's stats and he never gained 10mph of clubhead speed with his driver that I could see.  Also, since he was still lacking efficiency when Dr. Kwon tested him it seems that the fix that added clubhead speed did not stick?

 

Scott Lynn said in one video that Kuchar didn't want to change in the end because he started to miss left and that was the shot that cost him his Tour card years ago.  And I can't remember the exact year, but it was about 10-12 years ago when he was playing well overall, but he started to go thru this streak of missing left again and it was a real problem for him until he figured it out.

 

 

 

RH

[EagleAteBirdie]

Great thread.

 

How would this apply to players that move/load to the trail side but cannot find a way back to the lead side and despite endless drills (like Kwon etc.), just can't get it because it is so unnatural for them? 

 

Should they be more lead-side post players?

[RoyalTroon]

On 2/9/2023 at 3:00 PM, Nels55 said:

I think that matching up swing mechanics with a front, mid or rear post is valid and can help a lot of golfers.  The area in question is the assertion that every golfer has one best way to swing.  That could be but seems pretty hard to prove.

 

 It's a weird assertion...Let's ask Johnny, he knows.   Why be limited.

 

 

 

 

[Nels55]

5 minutes ago, BALLYBUNION said:

 

 It's a weird assertion...Let's ask Johnny, he knows.   Why be limited.

 

 

 

 

I don't think so.  For one thing you don't get more power from a 'rear pivot move'.  A lot of really long drivers of the ball are front post Bryson DeChambeau being one example. 

 

Changing the pivot for different clubs like Johnny recommends would be pretty tough for the average person to do.  It would require knowing three different sets of swing mechanics.  Maybe works for some super talented people like Johnny Miller but not gonna work for someone like me.  LOL I believe that I will listen to the guy who has spent 150k hours giving lessons instead of Johnny in this case.

[RoyalTroon]

6 minutes ago, Nels55 said:

I don't think so.  For one thing you don't get more power from a 'rear pivot move'.  A lot of really long drivers of the ball are front post Bryson DeChambeau being one example. 

 

Changing the pivot for different clubs like Johnny recommends would be pretty tough for the average person to do.  It would require knowing three different sets of swing mechanics.  Maybe works for some super talented people like Johnny Miller but not gonna work for someone like me.  LOL I believe that I will listen to the guy who has spent 150k hours giving lessons instead of Johnny in this case.

 

Listen to the video, same move so sequence mechanics stay in the same neighborhood, all things being equal, but not for everyone's taste or ability, but valid.  Really not much different than jumping on one leg, then the other, then both.  You do you though, but Johnny still knows.  

[Nels55]

12 hours ago, EagleAteBirdie said:

Great thread.

 

How would this apply to players that move/load to the trail side but cannot find a way back to the lead side and despite endless drills (like Kwon etc.), just can't get it because it is so unnatural for them? 

 

Should they be more lead-side post players?

That is a question that a qualified instructor using force plates and 3D video could answer for sure.  

[RichieHunt]

18 hours ago, EagleAteBirdie said:

Great thread.

 

How would this apply to players that move/load to the trail side but cannot find a way back to the lead side and despite endless drills (like Kwon etc.), just can't get it because it is so unnatural for them? 

 

Should they be more lead-side post players?

 

You might be a front post player (lead leg dominant), a middle post player (equal leg dominant) or somewhere between those two.  Generally middle post players are more torque (rotational) force dominant on the downswing and front post (lead leg dominant) are more vertical.  

 

But it appears to be some exceptions.  For instance Charles Howell III looks like a front post (lead leg dominant golfer), but according to Swing Catalyst If yhe's a horizontal force dominant golfer.  I would imagine that's a rare combination, but it would explain why Charles hits low draws (not having quite enough vertical force to get his AoA more upward and the horizontal force producing more of an inside to out path).

 

If you're having real issues shifting the pressure to your lead side and there's no easier fix, then  you may be using a trail post swing when you're a middle or front post pivot would work better for you.

 

But it also may be some bad concepts in your backswing and not quite understanding when you need to start shifting the pressure to your lead side (around p2) and things like you may be getting taller in the backswing and you don't have the central nervous system to get taller at p4, drop in transition and then rise again using vertical force by p5.5

 

That's how I understand everything, but I would recommend finding a qualified instructor with a force plate system and testing your leg dominance.

 

 

 

 

RH

[RichieHunt]

wrong thread

Edited June 7, 2023 by RichieHunt

[Scottbox]

On 5/3/2023 at 7:24 AM, Mono said:

can you share the drill for a front post?

 

[Nels55]

This looks like something that might be good for trail post players:

 

If you are front post you might want to hide your eyes!

[Nels55]

In this video Mike Adams finds that identical twins have different swing patterns:

There is some interesting info on how the different swings are determined but I think that some of if of is left out...

[virtuoso]

On 6/1/2023 at 4:53 PM, RoyalTroon said:

 

Listen to the video, same move so sequence mechanics stay in the same neighborhood, all things being equal, but not for everyone's taste or ability, but valid.  Really not much different than jumping on one leg, then the other, then both.  You do you though, but Johnny still knows.  

Well, the Johnny miller thing happens automatically anyway. The sequence is the same but as the club gets longer, the stance is wider and the torso has more tilt away from the target, and the posture is more upright. You end up loading into the right leg more with the longer stuff, and the pressure signature is bigger. The wedge signature is just a micro version. Miller interprets that as a different pivot point, buts it’s really not. That’s why stack and tilt got worse as the club got longer.

[Nels55]

Here is Mike Adams describing how to determine a golfer's optimum amount of shoulder turn:

 

This seems to have worked for me.  I shortened up a bit to the point determined by the test and I did not loose any clubhead speed and gained better contact.  Time will tell but so far so good.

[PhillipG78]

I’m a front post golfer, the more I load my left leg the better I hit, I went from driving 275 to driving 300+ after moving to proper front post 

[Primo1868]

On 2/11/2023 at 12:17 AM, Nels55 said:

Pretty good speed increase using ground force here:

I looked that pressure mat up the other day it is $21,800 and the much improved dual force plate is $26,000.  Bummer, just out of my price range...

I have the exact same porportions as this guy (except 6.3”) and realize now I’m a front poster (also like him). This is very intriguing 

 

 

edit some time later:

I absolutely cannot wait to fool around with this stuff 

Edited October 19, 2023 by Primo1868
Fun

[Divot License]

On 8/26/2023 at 5:39 PM, Nels55 said:

In this video Mike Adams finds that identical twins have different swing patterns:

There is some interesting info on how the different swings are determined but I think that some of if of is left out...

Glad someone enjoyed the video I posted.

 

Personally, I think front, center or rear posts determine far more than just the power source. It will have an impact on delivery conditions also. Playing from different posts requires a different delivery sequence to optimize impact.