Bryson's new PING irons (*** NO LIV REFERENCES/DISCUSSIONS ***)

[nathans]

It makes absolutely no sense to "loft jack" single length irons considering the length and swingweight of all the irons are identical. Only the loft changes throughout the set.

 

Basically, due to BAD's insane clubhead speed everything spins way more for a given loft and goes way higher/further for a given loft.

 

At the end of the day grinding off the iron number and replacing it with something more suitable is the easiest route. For example, grind off the "7" and replace it with "9."

[The Ultimate Hack]

The same people complaining about loft jacking are probably the same people who shouldn't be playing the clubs they're playing. 

 

 

[vanzeppelin]

The loft jacking is annoying only because of the delusional people pulling made up reasons out of thin air that make no sense. Why can't people just admit that it is what it is? Loft jacking.

 

He plays one length irons. A traditionally lofted 7 iron that would supposedly "spin too much at his insane speed" is LITERALLY the same club as his 9 iron or whatever. 34-36 degrees of loft doesn't magically become hit-able because you stamp a different number on it. He may prefer to have a iron have a specific launch & spin window, but to say that he "has" to deloft his clubs because they would be unhittable/balloon/whatever at his speed is just straight up nonsense. It's a subjective preference on his part, end of story. His on course SS wasn't that far off from a number of other PGAT guys in '20-22, and somehow all of them are able to play with weaker lofts.

 

[pdxhak]

Pretty much every club manufacture loft jacks when compared to sets built way back. So what is the big deal if anyone changes their setup to suit their game? That is what getting fitted is all about.  

[Drrussell]

4 hours ago, RCGA said:

I don't understand how a company can go through the trouble of making you a custom 1-of-1 putter and then slapping ugly lead tape all over it. 

 

He is very proud of his Ryder Cup umbrella😄

Pros do it all the time. It changes delivery based on what they need. 

[Drrussell]

47 minutes ago, pdxhak said:

Pretty much every club manufacture loft jacks when compared to sets built way back. So what is the big deal if anyone changes their setup to suit their game? That is what getting fitted is all about.  

Is not about "loft jacking". It's taking advantage of the technology to get controllable gaps throughout. The ball and length of new courses dictate that more distance is available and required. Most amateur golfers don't have the clubhead speed or delivery characteristics to take advantage of stronger lofts throughout the set. 

 

As you get to a 3-4-5 iron, if you can't produce enough velocity and spin, then stronger lofts won't give consistently longer distances and certainly won't give correct gap in carry distance. Fast players don't have that problem, so they can go stronger. But the bottom end still has to match up with gapping to a 56, 60 on the bottom. 

[Drrussell]

1 hour ago, vanzeppelin said:

The loft jacking is annoying only because of the delusional people pulling made up reasons out of thin air that make no sense. Why can't people just admit that it is what it is? Loft jacking.

 

He plays one length irons. A traditionally lofted 7 iron that would supposedly "spin too much at his insane speed" is LITERALLY the same club as his 9 iron or whatever. 34-36 degrees of loft doesn't magically become hit-able because you stamp a different number on it. He may prefer to have a iron have a specific launch & spin window, but to say that he "has" to deloft his clubs because they would be unhittable/balloon/whatever at his speed is just straight up nonsense. It's a subjective preference on his part, end of story. His on course SS wasn't that far off from a number of other PGAT guys in '20-22, and somehow all of them are able to play with weaker lofts.

 

Do the math. If he played traditional loft, he would have a massive gap problem as long as there is a limit to how many clubs you can carry. It starts at 60, 56, then gap through the set. If he did play old lofts the math doesn't work. He would see distances bunch up spinning the ball way too much for optimal gapping. 

 

On the top end speed, launch and spin dictate what's possible. Start with 60 degree and run through. There's a cap on the top end, based on club and ball speed. For most 18degrees is the least loft you can use on top end. 

 

There are diminishing returns if you don't have the speed to take advantage of different lofts.

 

f you deloft to 15 degrees for example, you would fly the ball shorter than an 18 degree iron. Why?

 

The loft is stronger, but it won't carry as far. It's physics. If you can't create the speed and spin then enough lift isn't created to keep ball in air.

 

So to control gapping it's just math throughout set. The more speed you have, the more usable lofts are on the top end. If a normal golfer caps out at 21 degree, a faster golfer caps out at 18 degrees. A real fast golfer may cap out at say 14 degrees. 

 

If you don't have speed to take advantage of stronger lofts, there is zero reason to change loft. If you do have the speed, there is zero reason to keep lofts high because you will create a massive gap problem on top end.

 

It's about matching lofts through the set to match your individual swing characteristics and take advantage of being able to create enough speed to use a 60 degree (everyone) all the way to your personal top end, 21, 18, 14. Usable loft on top is dictated by speed. 

 

 

Edited March 11, 2023 by Drrussell

[Drrussell]

2 hours ago, The Ultimate Hack said:

The same people complaining about loft jacking are probably the same people who shouldn't be playing the clubs they're playing. 

 

 

No doubt. They don't understand the math. If you don't have sufficient speed, you have to add length to club to make lower lifts useful (because more speed is needed).

 

It's all a function of speed that dictates the potential benefits of less loft. It applies to driver too. For every speed there is an ideal loft. Taking a driver and delofting does not mean you will get more carry. It's just math. 

 

 As speed changes so does ideal loft. That applies to every club in bag. If there was no legal limit to the number of clubs it wouldn't matter. Just add more clubs until you reach max carry. However, since we have a club limit, optimizing becomes important. 

 

After going through the math last year, I bought a loft/lie machine so I could optimize gapping. It's a world of difference. 

[vanzeppelin]

39 minutes ago, Drrussell said:

Do the math. If he played traditional loft, he would have a massive gap problem as long as there is a limit to how many clubs you can carry. It starts at 60, 56, then gap through the set. If he did play old lofts the math doesn't work. He would see distances bunch up spinning the ball way too much for optimal gapping. 

 

On the top end speed, launch and spin dictate what's possible. Start with 60 degree and run through. There's a cap on the top end, based on club and ball speed. For most 18degrees is the least loft you can use on top end. 

 

There are diminishing returns if you don't have the speed to take advantage of different lofts.

 

f you deloft to 15 degrees for example, you would fly the ball shorter than an 18 degree iron. Why?

 

The loft is stronger, but it won't carry as far. It's physics. If you can't create the speed and spin then enough lift isn't created to keep ball in air.

 

So to control gapping it's just math throughout set. The more speed you have, the more usable lofts are on the top end. If a normal golfer caps out at 21 degree, a faster golfer caps out at 18 degrees. A real fast golfer may cap out at say 14 degrees. 

 

If you don't have speed to take advantage of stronger lofts, there is zero reason to change loft. If you do have the speed, there is zero reason to keep lofts high because you will create a massive gap problem on top end.

 

It's about matching lofts through the set to match your individual swing characteristics and take advantage of being able to create enough speed to use a 60 degree (everyone) all the way to your personal top end, 21, 18, 14. Usable loft on top is dictated by speed. 

 

 

Nothing you're saying is wrong, but the point is the only reason he changes the number on the bottom of the club is a semantics preference. He could keep the exact same gapping you are talking about to reach the top end while still having a more relatively normal numbered club. The issue is he basically skips a couple clubs with the large loft gaps, so if you're keeping to more traditional naming conventions he would have to skip a number somewhere. But functionally, he could rename his 4i-Pw to 2i-8i or 3i-9i instead and it would make literally zero difference to anything you're saying.

[pt73]

On 3/11/2023 at 11:14 PM, Grouchykona said:

Just me or did he seem a bit uncomfortable after revealing his fairway wood (cobra) and didn’t want to talk about it?

Maybe because the Cobra guy said nasty things about him but he still likes the club.

[TiScape]

On 3/10/2023 at 1:58 PM, Viper4225 said:

 

The face was “stabler”? 😂  U’d think a physicist would prefer ‘more stable’. I can honestly say I’ve yet to see a WITB video where the player has come off more unsure/uncomfortable. Some of the things, it actually comes off like it’s his first time seeing them! 😜 Oh, Bryson. 

Edited March 13, 2023 by TiScape

[Trippels]

43 minutes ago, TiScape said:

The face was “stabler”? 😂  U’d think a physicist would prefer ‘more stable’.  

Not to defend Bryson and his overinflated sense of competence, but I think you'll find no shortage of real physicists and other scientists with poor grammar.

[TiScape]

7 hours ago, Trippels said:

Not to defend Bryson and his overinflated sense of competence, but I think you'll find no shortage of real physicists and other scientists with poor grammar.

So you think his professors were okay with him describing atoms as stabler??? Uh, okay… 🤷🏼‍♂️

I have a few buddies at JPL and another at LLNL and I’m quite sure I’ve never heard any of them refer to something as stabler. But hey, that’s just in my experience. Does he also say ‘more hard’ as opposed to ‘harder’? The face on this one is more hard… haha. Listening to Bryson talk, I’d say his speciality is most likely ‘bro science’. Still entertaining to watch play golf though. 😊

Edited March 13, 2023 by TiScape

[Vlade15]

On 3/11/2023 at 10:03 AM, pdxhak said:

Pretty much every club manufacture loft jacks when compared to sets built way back. So what is the big deal if anyone changes their setup to suit their game? That is what getting fitted is all about.  

There is no issue - he can play what he wants - until he starts touting on instagram that he his 8 iron 230 yards to sound cool - and then the worst part - people buy into it thinking its a "spin" thing rather than loft jacking.

[Viper4225]

4 hours ago, pt73 said:

Maybe because the Cobra guy said nasty things about him but he still likes the club.

 

I'm curious what his new fairway will be... maybe ping, those things are HOT. 

 

[Vlade15]

1 minute ago, Viper4225 said:

 

I'm curious what his new fairway will be... maybe ping, those things are HOT. 

 

Maybe he will get ahold of one of those mythical g430 lst fairways.

[bullsfan]

I can't honestly believe that a company like Ping would sign him, as he has a track record of dragging OEMs through the mud due to his own inconsistencies. If Ping just made him the clubs, and he paid for them W/O a contract, then great, but they might want to reconsider if they didn't? It's just a matter of time until his true colors show through again.

[Vlade15]

5 minutes ago, bullsfan said:

I can't honestly believe that a company like Ping would sign him, as he has a track record of dragging OEMs through the mud due to his own inconsistencies. If Ping just made him the clubs, and he paid for them W/O a contract, then great, but they might want to reconsider if they didn't? It's just a matter of time until his true colors show through again.

Even if they didnt sign him...I really doubt that they made him pay for them.

[J_Tizzle]

15 minutes ago, Vlade15 said:

Even if they didnt sign him...I really doubt that they made him pay for them.

 

Yeah I think its pretty clear that the LIV guys won't be having club/clothing deals for the most part.  Especially since they're so big on the team branding stuff they need all the bag/hat space for team logos etc.

 

So I'd expect to start seeing all the LIV guys essentially have free agent bags. 

[pdxhak]

1 hour ago, Vlade15 said:

There is no issue - he can play what he wants - until he starts touting on instagram that he his 8 iron 230 yards to sound cool - and then the worst part - people buy into it thinking its a "spin" thing rather than loft jacking.

 

He is providing a personal opinion that is backed by data he collected. I do not have a problem with it. It is up to the individual if they choose to follow his path. Some may find success using his methods and some may not. 

 

As for loft jacking, I can guarantee you it matters to a lot of people. Yet I do not see many going back to iron sets with 50* PW.

 

 

[boggyman]

14 minutes ago, pdxhak said:

 

He is providing a personal opinion that is backed by data he collected. I do not have a problem with it. It is up to the individual if they choose to follow his path. Some may find success using his methods and some may not. 

 

As for loft jacking, I can guarantee you it matters to a lot of people. Yet I do not see many going back to iron sets with 50* PW.

 

 

I’ve got an old set of W/S blades that see very regular bag time with a PW @ 50* 3-Pw…. it’s the same lofts as what once was a modern day set of 4-GW. Play them with no issues at all! Also have a set of OL “jacked” lofts and an all hybrid set of 20-50* . 

[pdxhak]

2 minutes ago, boggyman said:

I’ve got an old set of W/S blades that see very regular bag time with a PW @ 50* 3-Pw…. it’s the same lofts as what once was a modern day set of 4-GW. Play them with no issues at all! Also have a set of OL “jacked” lofts and an all hybrid set of 20-50* . 

 

I have a set of FG17s that I play a couple times a year just for fun. They are still one of my all time favorite sets. IIRC the 8i is 42* which is weak for some modern day PW!

[boggyman]

3 minutes ago, pdxhak said:

 

I have a set of FG17s that I play a couple times a year just for fun. They are still one of my all time favorite sets. IIRC the 8i is 42* which is weak for some modern day PW!

How ironic. Mine are FG17s as well. Even have a spare set that’s in gripped! Awesome irons! 

[pdxhak]

7 minutes ago, boggyman said:

How ironic. Mine are FG17s as well. Even have a spare set that’s in gripped! Awesome irons! 

 

I need to regrip my set. One of these days I will pull the heads and send them out to be refinished.

[Mr. Grumpy]

I like my lofts jacked, just sayin..

[Anser3]

2 hours ago, J_Tizzle said:

 

Yeah I think its pretty clear that the LIV guys won't be having club/clothing deals for the most part.  Especially since they're so big on the team branding stuff they need all the bag/hat space for team logos etc.

 

So I'd expect to start seeing all the LIV guys essentially have free agent bags. 

 

 

I will be beyond shocked if Ping actually signs Bryson to any deal. 

 

On a side note, Bubba Watson  has a lifetime ambassador deal with Ping.  He is also their most popular player under contract (He and Phil are my favorite golfers).  He did not appear in a single Ping G430 driver  promotional video for them  (goes along with your comment).  

Edited March 13, 2023 by Anser3

[J_Tizzle]

3 hours ago, Anser3 said:

 

 

I will be beyond shocked if Ping actually signs Bryson to any deal. 

 

On a side note, Bubba Watson  has a lifetime ambassador deal with Ping.  He is also their most popular player under contract (He and Phil are my favorite golfers).  He did not appear in a single Ping G430 driver  promotional video for them  (goes along with your comment).  

 

I mean personally I'd be shocked if any of them get true club sponsorships, but thats just me.

 

I do not anticipate Ping to jump on the Bryson boat, but his WITB video does show he's got a pretty full set of Ping clubs in the bag (with a backup G430 driver), so who knows.  I'd say this is probably one of those situations where most will just play what they want and helps them play the best.  I've always liked Bryson (just because he's different, but still pretty whiney) and I've always loved Ping clubs, so I'm happy for them both if they have success with whatever they use or who they support.

[Anser3]

17 minutes ago, J_Tizzle said:

 

I mean personally I'd be shocked if any of them get true club sponsorships, but thats just me.

 

I do not anticipate Ping to jump on the Bryson boat, but his WITB video does show he's got a pretty full set of Ping clubs in the bag (with a backup G430 driver), so who knows.  I'd say this is probably one of those situations where most will just play what they want and helps them play the best.  I've always liked Bryson (just because he's different, but still pretty whiney) and I've always loved Ping clubs, so I'm happy for them both if they have success with whatever they use or who they support.

Agree 100%  .  I don't think the Solheim's back away from Bubba.  But I do think  (and it seems they have)  they kept their deal with him more quiet since his announcement.  I have never minded Bryson either.  I think he can be childish at times.  I still find him more likeable than Koepka.  I actually love Bryson's approach to his equipment.  However, I think the public execution of his method is terrible  (publicly complaining about his sponsor's clubs is a huge faux pas).  Ping has made clubs for many golfers on Tour with whom they did not have a relationship  (notably, Sergio).   I think folks are looking far too much into Bryson using Ping clubs.   BTW, I love Ping clubs too (their company as a whole  is awesome).  A little over a year ago, I had sent in my iblades for a swingweight adjustment (I despise the look of lead tape).  With that, I included a handwritten note addressed to John A.  and John K. telling them I appreciated their public stance  regarding their faith and values.  They sent me back a hand-signed Ping hat and a hand -signed (by both) thank you letter on company letterhead.   I have it stored with my autographed Phil Mickelson 2016 U.S. Open ticket, Phil Mickelson autographed Oakmont course map, and autographed Ping G10 visor  (signed by Bubba and given to me by a coworker whose brother-in-law was on Tour  and friends with Bubba).

Edited March 13, 2023 by Anser3

[Drrussell]

On 3/11/2023 at 12:35 PM, vanzeppelin said:

Nothing you're saying is wrong, but the point is the only reason he changes the number on the bottom of the club is a semantics preference. He could keep the exact same gapping you are talking about to reach the top end while still having a more relatively normal numbered club. The issue is he basically skips a couple clubs with the large loft gaps, so if you're keeping to more traditional naming conventions he would have to skip a number somewhere. But functionally, he could rename his 4i-Pw to 2i-8i or 3i-9i instead and it would make literally zero difference to anything you're saying.

He could do that to an extent. Except at the top end he would have 4 4 irons with different lofts (22, 20, 18, 15). One length irons only go up to 4i since normal people can't take advantage of anything over 21 degrees without lengthening the shaft or making other changes to gain speed. If he's strengthing a 7i 3 degrees, he could take a 6i and weaken 1 degree. It's possible. 

 

I did exactly what Bryson did by going through my bag and adjusting clubs to make launch conditions, spin rate and descent exactly where I wanted. Every club had to be adjusted. No stock lofts generated a launch, spin, and descent angle I needed with stock lofts. Could have started at top and added loft too. Doing that would have meant buying an extra iron at the top to have a 4i and a weak 4i, but yeah, in theory that would work. But lofts are particular to each player. Lofts aren't standardized across brands, so not sure why anyone would do that? 

[eth_herron]

Man, I posted this thread to get a quick link to an article or something and it went off the rails fast 😂