Been striping my irons and woods but cannot even find the face of driver!

[Luckydutch]

22 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

What you are missing is that you not understanding where you intend to make contact with the ball along your swing arc is the EXACT reason why you have all the quirks in your swing that others are pointing out and making it sound as if you just fix that you will play your best golf when the fact is the root issue will still persist.  You should NEVER use internal cues such as moving your elbow like this or than, your knees, or fire this or that body part because they are unreliable because the body is always changing from day to day.  Feel the club and feel for the club head as it moves around you and just as you make a practice swing, make your real swing, and understand that a golf ball will be struck along your arc as you make your swing motion and do not try to predict it or you will tense up and early extend, etc.  Don't predict impact, notice it, then observe the shot in relation to your intentions and make refinements to your location in relation to the ball and retest.  This is golf. Your swing motion is fine, you just need to understand impact and get into a better position in relation to the ball first and then watch all of your swing "faults" smooth themselves out in time.  You didn't early extend in your videos that you posted without the ball present, so why do you do it when the ball is present, it is because you are trying to "hit" the ball instead of allowing your swing motion to strike it because of where you are positioned in relation to the ball and knowing that your swing arc intersects the ball.  The ball doesn't stand a chance and it will be hit and launched in the air and once you are in position to the ball it can actually be ignored and you should be feeling for how much speed is needed to hit the ball a given distance.  

 

This is my Son after I worked with him for two weeks after he showed interest in taking up the game. I have never once mentioned to him about grip, stance, posture because first of all it means nothing to him because he is a rank beginner and wouldn't understand it's purpose anyway and that is not what is important.  I told him that our goal is to get the ball to pop up in the air and to do that he need to open the face and brush the ground behind the ball to use the bounce. That's it, then we worked him around the ball, until he got into the location in relation to the ball for him where that shots resides. Once we found that location he then tried to repeat it. At first he was tense and would skull balls off the green, but once he found the spot where the shot resided his body calmed and he let the shot happen and this was the result: 

 

 

At first I let him do it his way to see if he would figure it out, and that is important because the athlete will set up to where they are comfortable, but if where they are comfortable doesn't produce the desired shot that means that it resides in a location that will be uncomfortable and that must be accepted.  He knows that where he is in relation to the ball is orders of magnitude more important than being comfortable or his swing.  This is how the game should be approached in my opinion where you hit a shot with a plan, and then adjust or repeat depending on the resulting ball flight.  The beauty is that my Son doesn't compromise his swing motion, so it is easy for me to move him around the ball until we find what we are looking for and then he instinctively goes right back to the location to try and repeat the shot, but if he kept changing his swing motion, he would keep changing where he must be in relation to the ball, so coaching him would be impossible. This is how fast I sort out an undesirable result with him. We were looking for a straight flying shot with his fairway wood but the first one he hit had a slight fade on it, so I helped him adjust his position and since he didn't compromise his swing motion the very next shot flew dead straight and right on his expected target line and you can tell by the look on his face after he hit the second ball: 

 

 

 

I do agree about internal vs external ques to some extent.

 

Switching to external cues transformed my chipping and pitching. I really focus on feeling the club head and the face and it works beautifully. I reckon I chip and pitch better than my mate who is a 12 hc and I'm a 30+ hc now.

 

I struggle to do the same with full swings because the speed is that much more. Feeling the face during a 30mph pitch is one thing. Feeling it during a 115mph driver swing is trickier! 😅

[Luckydutch]

18 hours ago, Valtiel said:

You're doing an exaggerated "hold of/don't release the club" drill while wondering why the face is open? Why are you doing this and what do you think it is accomplishing if NOT exactly that? If anything you should be doing the opposite and practicing things that speed up your hands and your release, not slow them down. This was talked about in a previous thread; virtually ALL of these exaggerated drills you see pros doing (and irresponsible YouTube teachers) are designed to create a feel for someone with already deeply ingrained mechanics. Alex Noren does this drill because he is a fader of the ball that struggles with a left miss and wants to create a hold off feel. There is nothing about this drill that is relevant to anything you're trying to accomplish right now and it is actively harming you. 

 

This isn't a deliberate drill to hold-off the release really, I was just practicing the feels for turning and wasn't really thinking about the release.

 

18 hours ago, Valtiel said:

 i'd be really curious to see what sort of swings you make if prompted to make virtually no shift into your trail side in the backswing, because I'd bet that it would actually get you closer to where you need to be.

 

I thought this was an interesting idea so tried it.

 

Each vid below contains two swings because I'm still not confident on my backswing concept. The first is basically creating depth then lifting the arm and the second is more a feeling 'stretching and coiling-up' into the trail side. The former feels like it requires quite significant shallowing because it's very easy to get a bit over the top from that top of backswing position.

 

Regardless of that, I do think these videos show you're right. (Note: the sequencing is a bit rigid and not dynamic, I know, because I'm just feeling this out. I'd need to add the right timings once I know what I want to do).

 

First is the feel of no shift at all. Neither into the trail nor lead side. I'm just feeling the pelvis pivot. 

 

 

 

You can probably see why I said my instructor was always on my case about needing more lateral shift. My body hangs back onto my trail side and my sternum and head gets behind the ball. The lower body looks way more stable, though. The straight red line below was the center of my sternum at address.

 

 

 

Next is the side view of the same feels:

 

 

 

 

Lastly, I have this which I think *might* be the best which is still the feel of no lower body shift but I'm trying to get my upper body a bit more over the ball and really strike down on it:

 

 

Even though I'm feeling no lower body shift, there is still quite a lot but at least the left pelvis doesn't get ahead of the knee/foot now.

 

Edited March 24, 2023 by Luckydutch

[Righty to Lefty]

On 3/24/2023 at 7:36 AM, Luckydutch said:

 

I do agree about internal vs external ques to some extent.

 

Switching to external cues transformed my chipping and pitching. I really focus on feeling the club head and the face and it works beautifully. I reckon I chip and pitch better than my mate who is a 12 hc and I'm a 30+ hc now.

 

I struggle to do the same with full swings because the speed is that much more. Feeling the face during a 30mph pitch is one thing. Feeling it during a 115mph driver swing is trickier! 😅

The swing motion is the EXACT same no matter the speed and you should take that same approach with every club in the bag.  If you can't feel the mass of the driver moving around you then you need to add weight until you do feel it because you must have 100% trust in its location as it moves around you.  Next you should hit driver on the range at 30 mph with a full range of motion, then 50 mph, 70, 90, and finally 115 mph and you will note that along the way that it takes much more "effort" to strike the ball reliably at slower speeds because you must be very diligent in creating structure for the shot because slower speeds it is much easier to manipulate it while at faster speeds so much force is being created that all you can do is hold on and try to oppose it to maintain balance.  

 

Over time you will "feel the swing in slow motion" even at your max speeds but you must first learn how to create the structure and teach your body where it needs to be in order for your driver's swing arc to intersect the ball while the face is pointed at your intended target. If you think that Rory is thinking about aspects of his swing while it is happening I assure that he is not.  He is setting up to the ball in a location where he trusts it will be struck and he is creating a ton of structure for all the force he is about to generate, thus preparing for what is about to happen, and then letting that swing motion happen.  You simply do not have time to think about anything in that short of a timeframe from address to impact and you are simply along for the ride pretty much.  You are making a swing motion with the intent to put that energy onto one spot which is the low point of your swing arc and the rest will be taken care of for you and your job will be to oppose those forces to maintain balance. 

 

Once you tap into this part of the game I assure you that you will improve dramatically but you must give up trying to control your swing.  You have to create structure to support your swing, and then set it free and note the results and this is so important.  You have to be like a child that isn't scared to swing and miss the ball, all that means is that you weren't in the correct location...fine...move to a different one until you find where you need to be.  

Edited April 22, 2023 by Righty to Lefty

[Luckydutch]

On 3/24/2023 at 3:00 PM, Righty to Lefty said:

The swing motion is the EXACT same no matter the speed and you should take that same approach with every club in the bag.  If you can't feel the mass of the driver moving around you then you need to add weight until you do feel it because you must have 100% trust in it's location as it moves around you.  Next you should hit driver on the range at 30 mph with a full range of motion, then 50 mph, 70, 90, and finally 115 mph and you will note that along the way that it takes much more "effort" to strike the ball reliably at slower speeds because you must be very diligent in creating structure for the shot because slower speeds it is much easier to manipulate it while at faster speeds so much force is being created that all you can do is hold on and try to oppose it to maintain balance.  

 

Over time you will "feel the swing in slow motion" even at your max speeds but you must first learn how to create the structure and teach your body where it needs to be in order for your driver's swing arc to intersect the ball while the face is pointed at your intended target. If you think that Rory is thinking about aspects of his swing while it is happening I assure that he is not.  He is setting up to the ball in a location where he trusts it will be struck and he is creating a ton of structure for all the force he is about to generate, thus preparing for what is about to happen, and then letting that swing motion happen.  You simply do not have time to think about anything in that short of a timeframe from address to impact and you are simply along for the ride pretty much.  You are making a swing motion with the intent put that energy onto one spot which is the low point of your swing arc and the rest will be taken care of for you and your job will be to oppose those forces to maintain balance. 

 

Once you tap into this part of the game I assure you that you will improve dramatically but you must give up trying to control your swing.  You have to create structure to support your swing, and then set it free and note the results and this is so important.  You have to be like a child that isn't scared to swing and miss the ball, all that means is that you weren't in the correct location...fine...move to a different one until you find where you need to be.  

 

 

It's not perfect by any means but I feel like I have made some progress here.

 

I can get the hip slide more under control with the feel that I only pivot the pelvis and don't move it forward at all but as I showed earlier, when I do that I tend to fall back onto my trail side with my upper body and head. HOWEVER, drawing from your advice around external cues, I thought to myself "what am I trying to do here? I'm trying to avoid falling back and scooping the ball into the air, I want to make sure I cover the ball and strike down on it". Therefore, my downswing concept became easy: pivot the pelvis and really consciously think about hitting down hit down on the ball.

 

The result seems to be that I avoid falling back onto my trail side and don't slide out of control either:

 

 

 

 

 

The impact position looks better based on the points you've all been making here. Sternum is ever so slightly ahead of the red line (which is where it was at setup). My head is slightly back but only slightly. Lower body has moved forwards but not to the same degree. My pelvis is still behind my knee and I look more stable.

 

 

 

 

 

Quite happy with the side view too. On-plane. Not early extending and the finish is stable.

 

 

 

I'm sure @Valtiel will point out that my re-centering is too late into the backswing but I just wasn't able to incoporate all of this into the swing and think about the sequence all at the same time. Too much for my little brain.

 

If you tell me this is an improvement, I'll try and create some muscle memory around it such that I can start adjusting the timings and sequence once it has sunk-in.

Edited March 25, 2023 by Luckydutch

[slytown]

On 3/25/2023 at 11:54 AM, Luckydutch said:

 

 

It's not perfect by any means but I feel like I have made some progress here.

 

I can get the hip slide more under control with the feel that I only pivot the pelvis and don't move it forward at all but as I showed earlier, when I do that I tend to fall back onto my trail side with my upper body and head. HOWEVER, drawing from your advice around external cues, I thought to myself "what am I trying to do here? I'm trying to avoid falling back and scooping the ball into the air, I want to make sure I cover the ball and strike down on it". Therefore, my downswing concept became easy: pivot the pelvis and really consciously think about hitting down hit down on the ball.

 

The result seems to be that I avoid falling back onto my trail side and don't slide out of control either:

 

 

 

 

 

 

The impact position looks better based on the points you've all been making here. Sternum is ever so slightly ahead of the red line (which is where it was at setup). My head is slightly back but only slightly. Lower body has moved forwards but not to the same degree. My pelvis is still behind my knee and I look more stable.

 

 

 

 

 

Quite happy with the side view too. On-plane. Not early extending and the finish is stable.

 

 

 

 

I'm sure @Valtiel will point out that my re-centering is too late into the backswing but I just wasn't able to incoporate all of this into the swing and think about the sequence all at the same time. Too much for my little brain.

 

If you tell me this is an improvement, I'll try and create some muscle memory around it such that I can start adjusting the timings and sequence once it has sunk-in.

 

It looks much better. You are still using arms, wrists, and hands to square the club face rather than body rotation near impact. Notice here that the club is in a good position but instead of continuing that rotation your shoulders kind of stop and the arms, wrists, and hands have to do the work of squaring the face. Notice in the face on view that the club is at a 45 degree angle when your hands are over your right knee. That indicates your shoulders and your rotation has stopped. At this point the club should be horizontal, or close to it.

 

I think you are improving a lot in this thread. Now that the slide has been improved, work on starting the arms and hands down on a good path, like you are doing, but adding more rotation near the bottom of the swing to square the clubface, and I mean A LOT OF ROTATION. Work on turning your shoulders to a finish more like this last photo. 

 

 

 

[Valtiel]

On 3/25/2023 at 8:54 AM, Luckydutch said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sure @Valtiel will point out that my re-centering is too late into the backswing but I just wasn't able to incoporate all of this into the swing and think about the sequence all at the same time. Too much for my little brain.

 

If you tell me this is an improvement, I'll try and create some muscle memory around it such that I can start adjusting the timings and sequence once it has sunk-in.

There are definitely some improvements here:



From an overall pelvic standpoint this is much better than before in the sense that you aren't collapsing and over rotating in the backswing. As you noted though you are still quite stuck on your trail side because of the order in which you get there:



The vast majority of whatever shift you do should be happening here and it's lagging behind. You immediately roll towards the outside of your right foot which is a little strange, normally this happens in response to reaching max trail leg pressure which you haven't reached, yet your foot is rolling. Try to keep that more stable going back.



This is still basically the same as before but less severe, and as you said you haven't really gotten to trying the re-centering idea yet, however you said this:
 

Quote

I just wasn't able to incoporate all of this into the swing and think about the sequence all at the same time

The correct pivot/re-centering basically IS the sequence, you have nothing to build around until you get this part right so don't make the mistake of thinking this is just some thing you can add on later. Nothing else in your swing matters if this isn't right so just make sure you're treating it that way. 

In the above gif you're basically at maximum trail leg pressure at the top of your swing, here is where you'll continue to have problems:



First the general fact that you don't start pivoting until your hands start the downswing which is already way too late. SEcond though is that the move that you DO make almost looks like you're consciously *trying* to leave your right leg behind. There isn't even a hint of movement until the last frame of the gif and by then you're already 1/3rd of the way into the downswing. So not only is this severely late, but you also can't continue opening up your left side while your right side is completely static, so now everything you're leaving behind needs to play catch up in the last 1/10th of a second in the downswing which is where the sliding/flipping stuff starts to happen.



Thankfully though because you didn't turn/slide so far back this time, your hands are much less stuck/trailing now. They aren't perfect, but it's better than before, and with a correct re-centering move and your right side not getting left behind it should get even better. But for the love of god....



Don't leave your head pointed down at the ground like this you goofball, lol. This isn't part of the "try to shift as little as possible" prompt from before and you're just going to strain your neck and limit your upper body release through the ball doing this.

Edited March 28, 2023 by Valtiel

[Luckydutch]

On 3/28/2023 at 2:33 AM, Valtiel said:

There are definitely some improvements here:



From an overall pelvic standpoint this is much better than before in the sense that you aren't collapsing and over rotating in the backswing. As you noted though you are still quite stuck on your trail side because of the order in which you get there:



The vast majority of whatever shift you do should be happening here and it's lagging behind. You immediately roll towards the outside of your right foot which is a little strange, normally this happens in response to reaching max trail leg pressure which you haven't reached, yet your foot is rolling. Try to keep that more stable going back.



This is still basically the same as before but less severe, and as you said you haven't really gotten to trying the re-centering idea yet, however you said this:
 

The correct pivot/re-centering basically IS the sequence, you have nothing to build around until you get this part right so don't make the mistake of thinking this is just some thing you can add on later. Nothing else in your swing matters if this isn't right so just make sure you're treating it that way. 

In the above gif you're basically at maximum trail leg pressure at the top of your swing, here is where you'll continue to have problems:



First the general fact that you don't start pivoting until your hands start the downswing which is already way too late. SEcond though is that the move that you DO make almost looks like you're consciously *trying* to leave your right leg behind. There isn't even a hint of movement until the last frame of the gif and by then you're already 1/3rd of the way into the downswing. So not only is this severely late, but you also can't continue opening up your left side while your right side is completely static, so now everything you're leaving behind needs to play catch up in the last 1/10th of a second in the downswing which is where the sliding/flipping stuff starts to happen.



Thankfully though because you didn't turn/slide so far back this time, your hands are much less stuck/trailing now. They aren't perfect, but it's better than before, and with a correct re-centering move and your right side not getting left behind it should get even better. But for the love of god....



Don't leave your head pointed down at the ground like this you goofball, lol. This isn't part of the "try to shift as little as possible" prompt from before and you're just going to strain your neck and limit your upper body release through the ball doing this.

 

 

I will admit, I am just not getting this. I can sort of feel like I'm doing it OK except for the earlier re-centering. That throws me completely off. Specifically, I feel like I get stuck with all my pressure in my lead knee and I don't extend that leg back enough or early enough.

 

Here are two examples:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now if I don't think about shifting forward and just try to stay stable it feels like my lead leg extends and gets out of the way OK but I still have a major issue with getting those hands working faster so they're not left behind. I can do it but the faster I get the hands moving, the more I leave the face WIDE open. My trail arm stays tucked inside too long and doesn't roll over the lead arm early enough to square it up.

 

 

 

 

I can square it up better by getting those arms to cross over earlier but at the expense of pulling the hands down fast.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm playing some absolutely DIRE golf atm. I know it's normal to break yourself down a bit to build yourself up but I can barely hit a ball and when I do it goes 45 degrees right with wild push-fades from the face being so open.

[slytown]

1 hour ago, Luckydutch said:

 

 

I will admit, I am just not getting this. I can sort of feel like I'm doing it OK except for the earlier re-centering. That throws me completely off. Specifically, I feel like I get stuck with all my pressure in my lead knee and I don't extend that leg back enough or early enough.

 

Here are two examples:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now if I don't think about shifting forward and just try to stay stable it feels like my lead leg extends and gets out of the way OK but I still have a major issue with getting those hands working faster so they're not left behind. I can do it but the faster I get the hands moving, the more I leave the face WIDE open. My trail arm stays tucked inside too long and doesn't roll over the lead arm early enough to square it up.

 

 

 

 

I can square it up better by getting those arms to cross over earlier but at the expense of pulling the hands down fast.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm playing some absolutely DIRE golf atm. I know it's normal to break yourself down a bit to build yourself up but I can barely hit a ball and when I do it goes 45 degrees right with wild push-fades from the face being so open.

 

Honestly, you are not far off. You have the shallowing and the lateral movement. Look at P5 position (well, more like P5.5.) You can play well with this swing, but it could still be improved.

 

The missing ingredient here is rotation. You do rotate in the finish, but after your hands have already rolled over to square the face. Keep in mind that your shoulders will rotate the face and get your hips open. Since you are already in a good place at P5, work on rotating near the bottom of the swing. It should feel like you are exiting left in the finish. Basically, you want your arms to straighten through the shot, but the hands don't roll over as much. This would be a proper release. If you watch Tommy Fleetwood, he has a great release. Check from down the line if your hands going thru your body in the follow through before the clubhead does. That means you are releasing the club and having that rotation at the bottom of the swing.

[Luckydutch]

2 hours ago, slytown said:

 

Honestly, you are not far off. You have the shallowing and the lateral movement. Look at P5 position (well, more like P5.5.) You can play well with this swing, but it could still be improved.

 

The missing ingredient here is rotation. You do rotate in the finish, but after your hands have already rolled over to square the face. Keep in mind that your shoulders will rotate the face and get your hips open. Since you are already in a good place at P5, work on rotating near the bottom of the swing. It should feel like you are exiting left in the finish. Basically, you want your arms to straighten through the shot, but the hands don't roll over as much. This would be a proper release. If you watch Tommy Fleetwood, he has a great release. Check from down the line if your hands going thru your body in the follow through before the clubhead does. That means you are releasing the club and having that rotation at the bottom of the swing.

 

I see your point. Tried rotating more at the studio today but it’s still a disaster.

 

This is one of the least dreadful shots and you can see that whilst I was reasonably open at impact, the sole of the club absolutely SMASHES the ground. Can even see the reverberation of the club in the follow-through. I don’t quite know what’s causing it. Whether it is the wrong grip, wrong release or a fault in the backswing but something is badly wrong about how I’m swinging it!

 

 

 

[slytown]

3 hours ago, Luckydutch said:

 

I see your point. Tried rotating more at the studio today but it’s still a disaster.

 

This is one of the least dreadful shots and you can see that whilst I was reasonably open at impact, the sole of the club absolutely SMASHES the ground. Can even see the reverberation of the club in the follow-through. I don’t quite know what’s causing it. Whether it is the wrong grip, wrong release or a fault in the backswing but something is badly wrong about how I’m swinging it!

 

 

IMG_1447.MOV 29.9 MB · 2 downloads  

 

 

Dude, that's a great swing. Don't be so hard on yourself. Haha. It's gonna take at least a month to correct something or change your swing. Just give it some time.

 

If you are hitting it fat, it means you are rotating late or stopping rotation. But, that swing looks great! Club comes down on plane and nice exit left in the follow through. A great sign of rotation. Was that 7 iron?

[Luckydutch]

6 hours ago, slytown said:

 

Dude, that's a great swing. Don't be so hard on yourself. Haha. It's gonna take at least a month to correct something or change your swing. Just give it some time.

 

If you are hitting it fat, it means you are rotating late or stopping rotation. But, that swing looks great! Club comes down on plane and nice exit left in the follow through. A great sign of rotation. Was that 7 iron?

 

It’s not just that the low point was behind the ball it’s that it feels like the low-point was 6 inches beneath the ground. On soft turf that would have dug a small grave!

 

You see here how the club isn’t releasing in front of me and isn’t closing in the follow-through?

 

 

 

It seems to me that this notion of pivoting rather than turning has largely addressed the early extension but exposed a new issue with how I deliver the club.

 

Yes that was a 7 iron. I usually carry 175-180. That was the best strike of the day and only 150. I hit mostly fat hooks and push-fades. My wrists were really sore after the session from the heavy impacts.

 

 

Edited March 31, 2023 by Luckydutch

[BraxtonFullerton]

For me, looking at @Valtiel's analysis and breakdown of your swing... you are so determined to make "good contact" you're holding your entire upper body still. You've started to turn your lower body correctly, but your upper body is completely static and remains behind the ball. If you look at any pro, their upper body moves towards the target coming into impact. This helps with shaft lean and de-lofting the club, as well as making sure you're compressing and coming down on your swing arc into the ball.

 

 

Look at Rory's finish here, look at his front foot and the extension he gets through his torso. Yours is super tentative, almost as if you're decelerating after contact.

 

I think you need to work on developing speed through impact and not in your transition move.

[slytown]

9 hours ago, Luckydutch said:

 

It’s not just that the low point was behind the ball it’s that it feels like the low-point was 6 inches beneath the ground. On soft turf that would have dug a small grave!

 

You see here how the club isn’t releasing in front of me and isn’t closing in the follow-through?

 

 

 

It seems to me that this notion of pivoting rather than turning has largely addressed the early extension but exposed a new issue with how I deliver the club.

 

Yes that was a 7 iron. I usually carry 175-180. That was the best strike of the day and only 150. I hit mostly fat hooks and push-fades. My wrists were really sore after the session from the heavy impacts.

 

 

 

You are correct. If you release the club correctly but don't turn, you will dig a small grave.

 

[Luckydutch]

On 3/31/2023 at 3:50 PM, BraxtonFullerton said:

For me, looking at @Valtiel's analysis and breakdown of your swing... you are so determined to make "good contact" you're holding your entire upper body still. You've started to turn your lower body correctly, but your upper body is completely static and remains behind the ball. If you look at any pro, their upper body moves towards the target coming into impact. This helps with shaft lean and de-lofting the club, as well as making sure you're compressing and coming down on your swing arc into the ball.

 

 

Look at Rory's finish here, look at his front foot and the extension he gets through his torso. Yours is super tentative, almost as if you're decelerating after contact.

 

I think you need to work on developing speed through impact and not in your transition move.

 

Famous last words but I think I am starting to get it.

 

You and @slytown are right in that I need more rotation. 

 

Instead of sliding I've been practicing the feeling of the left side kind of pulling/stretching down towards the left foot then pulling back and around. That pull back and around is the key bit as it stops my hips sliding out and gives me that look you see from Rory at impact there where the left side is one straight line stacked over the leg. Think it helps with the early extension too. 

 

Here's an example:

 

 

 

This is the same but with an attempt to get that sequence where I shift pressure whilst still in the backswing. It looks borderline a bit slidey compared to the above but still not as bad as before:

 

 

 

 

 

Incidentally, this has also helped my chipping. I have always struggled chipping off shorter or hard lies as the club grounds out fractionally behind the ball and I rely on bounce to save me. This same feeling of pulling the left side (especially the hip) back and away seems to bring that low point forward slightly and I did some great chips off a dead-pan mud lie here:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[slytown]

2 hours ago, Luckydutch said:

 

Famous last words but I think I am starting to get it.

 

You and @slytown are right in that I need more rotation. 

 

Instead of sliding I've been practicing the feeling of the left side kind of pulling/stretching down towards the left foot then pulling back and around. That pull back and around is the key bit as it stops my hips sliding out and gives me that look you see from Rory at impact there where the left side is one straight line stacked over the leg. Think it helps with the early extension too. 

 

Here's an example:

 

 

 

This is the same but with an attempt to get that sequence where I shift pressure whilst still in the backswing. It looks borderline a bit slidey compared to the above but still not as bad as before:

 

 

 

 

 

Incidentally, this has also helped my chipping. I have always struggled chipping off shorter or hard lies as the club grounds out fractionally behind the ball and I rely on bounce to save me. This same feeling of pulling the left side (especially the hip) back and away seems to bring that low point forward slightly and I did some great chips off a dead-pan mud lie here:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, you need some lateral shift and pressure shift into the lead foot, ideally before the club gets to the top. Then would bring the club down with your arms so you don't get stuck. The last move should be a turn.

 

If you still feel like you are sliding, work on just staying centered and putting pressure into your lead foot. I really like the Milo Lines concept of a "falling heart". You might be afraid of pitching the club over the top with this move, but you won't if you delay the rotation.

 

 

Edited April 5, 2023 by slytown

[uitar9]

On 3/17/2023 at 10:25 AM, Cwebb said:

Do a driver practice session with foot powder spray on the face, while trying different things....tee height, distance from the ball, weight distribution, etc etc.  As light a dusting as possible across the face is all that is needed. 

Great suggestion

 

It showed me I was hitting the ball to close to the heel and to high on the club face. The only changes I made was to lower the tee hight by half an inch and stand about a ball width further away from the tee at address.

 

Didn't want to change my swing. 

 

I got 10-20 more yards and a much more dependable ball flight.

[Luckydutch]

Thought I would share an update having worked on this for a while in the garden now and then hitting the studio today.

 

Definitely seeing some improvement with the early extension. If I compare today vs the first post in this thread, you can see a huge improvement there.

 

 

 

 

I'm still rising-up a bit but I'm able to maintain my hip depth a lot better.

 

This is a video of what I would consider a decent swing (for me) with a convenient demonstration of the feels at the start:

 

 

 

My main miss is an annoying push-fade with the occasional over-compensatory pull-hook if I ever dare try to strengthen the grip or feel more squaring of the face. Here's the push fade:

 

 

 

The driver remains the problem club. I feel like I'm setup too close to it which can encourage hooks:

 

 

 

However, when I try to setup further away and allow more space to sort of extend the arms through impact, the face is left WIIIIIIIDE open. These swings were minutes apart with the only difference really being setup distance. I wasn't trying to swing differently:

 

 

Overall, reasonably happy with progress and am grateful to everyone who has offered help. Most of my bag is becoming more consistent but I wish I could just square it up a tiny bit more to cut out those push fades without them becoming hooks. The driver is still the club that is holding-back my handicap from improving. I'll shoot low 90s if I leave it at home but over 100 if I try to play it!

 

Edited April 17, 2023 by Luckydutch

[slytown]

On 4/17/2023 at 11:25 AM, Luckydutch said:

Thought I would share an update having worked on this for a while in the garden now and then hitting the studio today.

 

Definitely seeing some improvement with the early extension. If I compare today vs the first post in this thread, you can see a huge improvement there.

 

 

 

 

I'm still rising-up a bit but I'm able to maintain my hip depth a lot better.

 

This is a video of what I would consider a decent swing (for me) with a convenient demonstration of the feels at the start:

 

 

 

 

My main miss is an annoying push-fade with the occasional over-compensatory pull-hook if I ever dare try to strengthen the grip or feel more squaring of the face. Here's the push fade:

 

 

 

 

The driver remains the problem club. I feel like I'm setup too close to it which can encourage hooks:

 

 

 

 

However, when I try to setup further away and allow more space to sort of extend the arms through impact, the face is left WIIIIIIIDE open. These swings were minutes apart with the only difference really being setup distance. I wasn't trying to swing differently:

 

 

 

Overall, reasonably happy with progress and am grateful to everyone who has offered help. Most of my bag is becoming more consistent but I wish I could just square it up a tiny bit more to cut out those push fades without them becoming hooks. The driver is still the club that is holding-back my handicap from improving. I'll shoot low 90s if I leave it at home but over 100 if I try to play it!

 

 

It looks so much better. The improvement in this thread has been impressive.

[nikeblades00]

I haven't read all the replies in this thread, forgive me if this has been addressed.  But you are very disconnected with your driver swing. Your hips are miles in front of your upper body. Also lots of hips sway. 

I have a tip to probably instantly improve your contact with just a simple thought: from the top of your backswing think arms come down before your hips rotate. This of course is just a feel.  Give it a shot.  And also turn don't sway in backswing.  Overall swing not bad just need better sequence. 

Edited April 23, 2023 by nikeblades00

[Luckydutch]

On 4/22/2023 at 3:05 PM, slytown said:

 

It looks so much better. The improvement in this thread has been impressive.

 

Thanks! Very kind!

 

I am still having issues with path, though. My natural swing seems to create a path that is pulled way left so a lot of the bad moves I tend to make are all in an attempt to neutralize it or push it out to the right.

 

Best example I can give is the below. It's just a smooth knocked-down wedge shot whilst warming up. Looks like a pretty nice swing by my standards and it's not really over the top or anything but it pulls quite severely:

 

 

 

[slytown]

1 hour ago, Luckydutch said:

 

Thanks! Very kind!

 

I am still having issues with path, though. My natural swing seems to create a path that is pulled way left so a lot of the bad moves I tend to make are all in an attempt to neutralize it or push it out to the right.

 

Best example I can give is the below. It's just a smooth knocked-down wedge shot whilst warming up. Looks like a pretty nice swing by my standards and it's not really over the top or anything but it pulls quite severely:

 

 

 

 

Honestly, that's a good problem. If the ball starts on line and then goes left, it means your path is great. You are just so used to squaring the club with your arms and wrists that the habit is hard to get out of. It's the same for me. Just keep in mind: most pros fear the left shot. A proper release and rotation near impact should feel like your club head is slightly open and your arms exit left.

[SGT]

I feel like the two main things are:

1. You're breaking posture at impact.
2. I feel like you were teeing it up too high with your driver for how much you hit up on the ball. Either tee it up lower, or hit up way way more. For consistency it is probably easiest to just tee it up a bit lower.

 

And another thing I would change is getting your weight more towards the heel of the right foot in the backswing.

[BraxtonFullerton]

I love the look of that nice'n'easy wedge shot... do yourself a favor and look at what your shoulders and head do in that shot vs what you're doing vs your "full" shots in practice...