Can a strong grip lead to sucking the club inside on the backswing and cupping in transition?

[uscheese]

See title...I see a lot of golfers who have these issues having a very strong left hand grip...Love to hear thoughts on this.

[tthomasgolfer605]

A too strong of a grip can lead to playing the ball too far back with too much tilt if you're not careful. That could lead to a bad takeaway for sure and many other things.

 

 

[MonteScheinblum]

That’s not usually the root cause.  Lack of vertical hing usually is. 

[uscheese]

Monte...can a player "over" vertical hinge?

[iacas]

25 minutes ago, uscheese said:

Can a player "over" vertical hinge?

 

Players can over-do anything.

[MonteScheinblum]

6 hours ago, iacas said:

 

Players can over-do anything.

Yes.  Open body and side bend is great.

 

Too many young, amazing tour players have too much and it will soon be a trend among average Joe’s and they will quit.

 

Dangerous trend, IMO, just like driving knees in 60’s and 70’s and X factor in 90’s….onky worse.

 

Zaltoris

Milo Periera 

Joaquin Niemnan

Sam Bennett 

Ryan Fox 

Gordon 

 

Love these guys, but they over rotate and have to over side bend to match up.

 

 

[noodle3872]

2 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Yes.  Open body and side bend is great.

 

Too many young, amazing tour players have too much and it will soon be a trend among average Joe’s and they will quit.

 

Dangerous trend, IMO, just like driving knees in 60’s and 70’s and X factor in 90’s….onky worse.

 

Zaltoris

Milo Periera 

Joaquin Niemnan

Sam Bennett 

Ryan Fox 

Gordon 

 

Love these guys, but they over rotate and have to over side bend to match up.

 

 

When I read comments like this it makes me just a tiny bit happy to be a beer bellied, barrel chested, inflexible stocky guy with a somewhat upright swing with just enough rotation to hit the ball halfway decent. Once I quit trying to Gumby myself, my game improved dramatically. 

[Chunkitgood]

I would guess the cause is the inside takeaway leading to over the top downswing  leading to the effect: a strong grip to try to avoid the slice.

[KMeloney]

On 4/7/2023 at 10:00 AM, uscheese said:

See title...I see a lot of golfers who have these issues having a very strong left hand grip...Love to hear thoughts on this.

 

With a strong grip, I think it's easy to think of hinging your wrists as just folding the trail wrist back -- and that's going to send the club inside all day long. If you instead consider focusing on hinging the lead wrist up, then it shouldn't matter how strong your grip is. 

[BombinJim]

19 hours ago, KMeloney said:

 

With a strong grip, I think it's easy to think of hinging your wrists as just folding the trail wrist back -- and that's going to send the club inside all day long. If you instead consider focusing on hinging the lead wrist up, then it shouldn't matter how strong your grip is. 

Can you elaborate on this? Does this cause an extreme in-to-out path?

[Ri_Redneck]

Not necessarily. As Monte said, a stronger grip requires more side bend and keeping back a bit more through the swing. Those who are supple have success with it, but you have to be careful to stay on plane in the backswing and not have too much coil, or back issues will arise. The whole inside takeaway thing happens when one gets sloppy.

 

BT

[KMeloney]

39 minutes ago, BombinJim said:

Can you elaborate on this? Does this cause an extreme in-to-out path?

 

Not in any official capacity, I can't... But if you've got your trail hand strong/with the back of your hand pointing more downward-facing, and you take the club back by hinging that wrist back on itself, then the club is going to head in the direction of that bending -- or, down and inside. Conversely, if that trail hand is more on top of the club, with the back of the hand pointing more toward the sky, then bending that wrist back in that orientation is going to send the clubhead more up than inside. If you consider hinging the wrists by leveraging the club up off the ball (combined with a body turn back) by pressing the heel pad of your lead hand down on the grip, then you might avoid the club going inside altogether.

 

If you're asking whether sucking the club low and inside on the takeaway leads to an extreme in-to-out path, I'd say no. It usually causes people to loop the club up and then over-the-top.

 

If you're asking whether hinging the club more vertically causes an extreme in-to-out path, I'd say not necessarily -- but could. If you're normally OTT, you can continue to be if you don't get the club behind you enough. But then there's also Matt Wolffe at the extreme end of the up-and-over backswing who then shallows the heck out of the club and swings from the inside.

[Pepperturbo]

IMO a strong grip can be the culprit behind all sorts of troubles, of course it depends on the person.  Lots of people start off using either weak or strong grips, and have to deal with their respective impediments, till they learn otherwise and adjust.  I am a firm champion of Neutral grip; it makes working the ball almost easier. 

[wagolfer7]

45 minutes ago, KMeloney said:

 

Not in any official capacity, I can't... But if you've got your trail hand strong/with the back of your hand pointing more downward-facing, and you take the club back by hinging that wrist back on itself, then the club is going to head in the direction of that bending -- or, down and inside. Conversely, if that trail hand is more on top of the club, with the back of the hand pointing more toward the sky, then bending that wrist back in that orientation is going to send the clubhead more up than inside. If you consider hinging the wrists by leveraging the club up off the ball (combined with a body turn back) by pressing the heel pad of your lead hand down on the grip, then you might avoid the club going inside altogether.

 

If you're asking whether sucking the club low and inside on the takeaway leads to an extreme in-to-out path, I'd say no. It usually causes people to loop the club up and then over-the-top.

 

If you're asking whether hinging the club more vertically causes an extreme in-to-out path, I'd say not necessarily -- but could. If you're normally OTT, you can continue to be if you don't get the club behind you enough. But then there's also Matt Wolffe at the extreme end of the up-and-over backswing who then shallows the heck out of the club and swings from the inside.

 

The experts can dive into a lot more detail on this.  But the wrists / forearms play a big role in the golf swing.  Padraig spends a lot of time talking about the wrists on his channel.  

 

I think what @KMeloney is talking about......a takeaway can get too far inside if you are getting too much flexion with the lead wrist and extension of the trail wrist too early or too much.  A lot of players have a pretty good takeaway, but it gets too far inside because they are not vertically hinging the club using radial deviation.  

 

If you stand at address and just hinge the club straight up with radial deviation, you'll notice the club goes straight up.  Put that into motion on the takeaway, and you'll notice the club goes up, but also goes outside.  Once you start adding in rotation - that brings the club inside - you can offset that a little with radial deviation and the club stays more in front of you as you rotate your body.  

 

Take this information carefully.  This has been measured and there is a blend of all the wrist movements in the swing.  It's not just all of one and none of the other.  It's a blended movement.  

 

Stan Utley on his chipping and pitching, talks about releasing the club using ulnar deviation.  For guys that have a huge flippy looking follow through, where their lead wrist goes into full extension, this is probably something you should try to understand better.  You don't ever want that lead wrist to get into an extension position. 

 

When pro's and 3d measurements talk about extension in the downswing....it's more about losing flexion, than it is about trying to get into an extension position. 

 

The grip plays a big part in all of this as well.  If you have a 3-4 knuckle strong grip - you won't be able to get a lot of motion with radial deviation.  Padraig's video on grip makes a great point about being able to do figure 8 motions with your wrists - to make sure that your grip allows for you wrists to move freely enough to utilize this lever correctly. 

 

There is also forearm rotation which plays a role as well.  Ton of stuff you could dive into if you really want to.         

 

 

Edited April 10, 2023 by wagolfer7

[Fuscinator]

Cupping the lead wrist in a very strong grip has a very different effect on the club than doing so in a neutral grip. Cupping the lead wrist in a very strong grip has the same effect on the club as cocking both wrists in a neutral grip. Both actions, from address, in isolation, raise the club vertically.

If you want to see what a very strong grip does, that takes the club inside and cups the lead wrist, watch John Daly.

[gators78]

46 minutes ago, Fuscinator said:

Cupping the lead wrist in a very strong grip has a very different effect on the club than doing so in a neutral grip. Cupping the lead wrist in a very strong grip has the same effect on the club as cocking both wrists in a neutral grip. Both actions, from address, in isolation, raise the club vertically.

If you want to see what a very strong grip does, that takes the club inside and cups the lead wrist, watch John Daly.

 

Or Matt Fitzpatrick. He’s taking the club more inside-around-over in the past few years and played his best golf. 

[ANimz]

On 4/7/2023 at 10:00 AM, uscheese said:

See title...I see a lot of golfers who have these issues having a very strong left hand grip...Love to hear thoughts on this.

I had to switch to a weak grip due to this issue.  Strong grip, I would end up cupping at the top and swinging steep.  With a weaker grip, and can have a flatter wrist.  I do think this can vary from person to person though to be honest.