Jason Day's new swing

[Lobby]

I heard the announcers for the Dallas event discussing Jason Day's new swing.   Apparently his old swing hurt his back.   Pretty badly
 

Do y'all know what the swing changes were?   Who coached him through this?

My back used to hurt all the time, but when I returned to golf after a 15 year layoff, nothing hurts any more.  🙂

[bakere]

I've read/heard on TV that Chris Como is/was his coach through the changes. Monte, an instructor who posts on here often talks about not restricting hip turn in relation to back pain. He might have a post on here or his Instagram page about it.

[glk]

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cncv-9ApI74/

[dfeldss]

Im at work or i'd link it, but Monte just posted an instagram about it last night i believe. Pretty interesting stuff. 

[MonteScheinblum]

Here are the relevant points….there are more nuanced ones, but these are what’s relevant to all golfers and point 3 is THE MOST RELEVANT.

 

Talked to Chris Sunday and point 3 is everything.

 

1. Freer right hip movement around and behind.

2. Unloading right elbow earlier to improve hand path and pitch of shaft, not early right tilt.  Here is practical application of the IMG video that caused the big debate several weeks ago.

3.  It took a year to make this change.  I get emails and texts every day.
 

“Monte, I’ve been working on this for 2 weeks and just can’t get it.”  Here’s a former number 1 and major champion working 40-60 hours a week and it took him a year.  The point is not quick fixes that don’t have long term benefit.  It’s progressing and not moving on to some new miracle epiphany when a small bucket does change the motor pattern.  Just intend to do it right, allow progress to happen and you will eventually get there.  Putting a timeline on improvement is a path to failure.

Edited May 16, 2023 by MonteScheinblum

[Soloman1]

This is my elevator pitch about change.

 

It's about "regression to the mean" and statistics.

 

We have a standard distribution curve of scores over time and a mean score.

If you score better than the mean one day after a change, you are not likely to score better than the mean the next day with the same change.

In fact, you will likely score worse than the mean, so you end up back at the mean again.

 

That's because of other variables each day.

Abandoning changes through impatience or lack of trust or commitment only makes you start all over again.

 

So, there is usually no continuous improvement.

 

It takes a long series of forward and backward steps to move the curve incrementally to the left. And the increments get smaller and smaller over time.

[golferdude54]

1 hour ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Putting a timeline on improvement is a path to failure.

Well said! I like to use successful repetitions instead of time when making changes.
 

A round of 54 with 18 putts on a par 72 equates to 36 shots. Now multiply that by 4 as that is how long a PGA Tour event or major is, 4 rounds of golf. 

 

The goal should be to make 36 successful reps consecutively (if you fail, start over) for 4 days in a row, first consciously, then unconsciously. If you can’t do that in practice, you won’t make it stick in a real tournament.
 

Most golfers can’t even hit 36 shots in a row on the sweet spot at the driving range, never mind having the same curve on every shot. Yet they expect to do that on the course every time when they can’t even get it done in practice first.
 

The whole point of making swing changes is to hit it solid with the same curve at the same distance more often. It doesn’t have to be perfect.

 

There will be times where the ball over-curves. But the key is that it over-curves in the same direction as your ideal shot. For example, a 2 yard fade shot with a 10 yard over-fade shot, both were hit solid but face angle was more open. That still counts as a successful shot.

[Lobby]

Man, these are really subtle changes. 
 

I can barely even see them. I can tell that Jason’s before and after swings are different, but all I can see is a slight diff in swing steepness 

[MonteScheinblum]

27 minutes ago, Lobby said:

Man, these are really subtle changes. 
 

I can barely even see them. I can tell that Jason’s before and after swings are different, but all I can see is a slight diff in swing steepness 

When you consider 1* of face difference at impact is the difference between a tap in birdie and a ball plugged in the bunker….

 

He has 10-15* more hip turn in the backswing.

His right hip is about 6” closer to the target than 5 years ago

The hand path and shaft pitch are 10-15* different. 
 

Visually not enormous, but in context of how precise golf is, it’s light years of difference.

 

This concept is hugely important because it’s lost on ams.  They don’t see drastic change in a short period and they give up and revert.

 

To improve at golf you need long term nuanced change.

 

Ams will get mad that their 30 yard slice becomes a 20 yard slice because it’s still a slice.  That’s HUGE.

 

Ams will get mad when they go from hitting 1 of 2 fat to 1 of 5 fat because, “I’m still hitting balls fat.”

Edited May 17, 2023 by MonteScheinblum

[Chunkitgood]

For a pro to change the swing he has had since he was what 8 years old and an amateur to change a swing he has not yet really learned are vastly different things.  The difficulty the former encounters are no excuse for the failure to be able to teach a complete beginner.  While it is true a lot of people only seek lessons after having self-taught themselves a bad swing, the process of teaching them a good one is still a far cry from getting a pro who makes a living being consistent among other things to successfully change.

[chigolfer1]

Here is Monte's post.  I guess you can quibble on camera angles, etc. but I think it's pretty clear he's moving the hips much differently.

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CsSAlolsyzH/

[GungHoGolf]

Here is before and after P5.5ish. Major difference in shaft plane - it was above right shoulder before, and nearly down to elbow after. Right elbow is more extended, hands are below belt line and have not gone as far out towards ball. Hips more open. Regarding camera angle, it's higher on the before (compare head position with horizon), but if it were lower it would make the before club shaft look even steeper.

 

 

Top before and after - shoulder plane steeper, club face slightly more closed (left wrist looks flat in both, so perhaps a slightly stronger left hand grip), slightly more laid off, less radial deviation of left wrist, hips more rotated and tilted (right hip higher):

 

 

 

 

Edited May 17, 2023 by GungHoGolf

[MonteScheinblum]

4 minutes ago, GungHoGolf said:

Here is before and after P5.5ish. Major difference in shaft plane - it was above right shoulder before, and nearly down to elbow after. Right elbow is more extended, hands have not gone as far out towards ball. Hips more open. Regarding camera angle, it's higher on the before (compare head position with horizon), but if it were lower it would make the before club shaft look even steeper.

 

 

Top before and after - shoulder plane steeper, club face slightly more closed (left wrist looks flat in both, so perhaps a slightly stronger left hand grip), slightly more laid off, less radial deviation of left wrist, hips more rotated and tilted (right hip higher):

 

 

 

 

This is the impetus for everything else right here.  The position of right hip and pelvis 

[getitdaily]

4 hours ago, GungHoGolf said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Working on a very similar cleanup myself 

Edited May 17, 2023 by getitdaily

[naj959]

37 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

Working on a very similar cleanup myself 

Same. Was never taught to turn my pelvis correctly by local instructors. I'm pretty flexible and could fake the turn but then I'd have to manipulate my body to get the club coming from the inside. Bounced back and forth between coming down steep and getting stuck. 

[MonteScheinblum]

3 minutes ago, naj959 said:

Same. Was never taught to turn my pelvis correctly by local instructors. I'm pretty flexible and could fake the turn but then I'd have to manipulate my body to get the club coming from the inside. Bounced back and forth between coming down steep and getting stuck. 

You’re not alone.  Me too.  

[getitdaily]

On 5/16/2023 at 2:15 PM, MonteScheinblum said:

Here are the relevant points….there are more nuanced ones, but these are what’s relevant to all golfers and point 3 is THE MOST RELEVANT.

 

Talked to Chris Sunday and point 3 is everything.

 

1. Freer right hip movement around and behind.

2. Unloading right elbow earlier to improve hand path and pitch of shaft, not early right tilt.  Here is practical application of the IMG video that caused the big debate several weeks ago.

3.  It took a year to make this change.  I get emails and texts every day.
 

“Monte, I’ve been working on this for 2 weeks and just can’t get it.”  Here’s a former number 1 and major champion working 40-60 hours a week and it took him a year.  The point is not quick fixes that don’t have long term benefit.  It’s progressing and not moving on to some new miracle epiphany when a small bucket does change the motor pattern.  Just intend to do it right, allow progress to happen and you will eventually get there.  Putting a timeline on improvement is a path to failure.

Do you know the specific movement changes he made and in what order? Would love to know how he progressed on each step.

 

I think a lot of people see swing change from day and think he made all of the changes all at once. I assume he started with a plan of attack and broke the changes down into bite sized chunks...

[PhillipG78]

I've been working with Soloman1 to totally revamp my swing and i've been working on it diligently for two months and I still don't think i'll have it ingrained for many many months. If it takes a pro a year to master a new swing it's gonna take me a long time. 

[Ripper212]

I've been working to change my takeaway. Really shouldn't be that hard, but if it takes a world class player a year to make a change, then I probably won't live long enough to see any improvement! 😞

[MonteScheinblum]

2 hours ago, Ripper212 said:

I've been working to change my takeaway. Really shouldn't be that hard, but if it takes a world class player a year to make a change, then I probably won't live long enough to see any improvement! 😞

The point is you don’t make changes in a small bucket and golfers tend to move on after one bad shot.  You do it until you can do it and don’t waiver.  That’s how you get better, not being on the merry go round of swing tops and aha moments.  His move was functional months ago, but he had to slowly build trust in order to win at that level over 4 days.

[Ripper212]

6 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

The point is you don’t make changes in a small bucket and golfers tend to move on after one bad shot.  You do it until you can do it and don’t waiver.  That’s how you get better, not being on the merry go round of swing tops and aha moments.  His move was functional months ago, but he had to slowly build trust in order to win at that level over 4 days.

I understand Monte. Was just joking. And personally feel like I trust the backswing changes and have seen significant improvement after about 6 months. But altho change feels like a big difference, suspect it's barely noticeable! Could show you in person if you held the Boston clinic like somewhere maybe near Boston! 🙂

[MonteScheinblum]

8 hours ago, Ripper212 said:

I understand Monte. Was just joking. And personally feel like I trust the backswing changes and have seen significant improvement after about 6 months. But altho change feels like a big difference, suspect it's barely noticeable! Could show you in person if you held the Boston clinic like somewhere maybe near Boston! 🙂

Finding a facility is tough.

[ferrispgm]

23 hours ago, PhillipG78 said:

I've been working with Soloman1 to totally revamp my swing and i've been working on it diligently for two months and I still don't think i'll have it ingrained for many many months. If it takes a pro a year to master a new swing it's gonna take me a long time. 

it takes a while to make it stick but you will have days here and there during that year or so where it's working well or at least better.  

[PhillipG78]

1 minute ago, ferrispgm said:

it takes a while to make it stick but you will have days here and there during that year or so where it's working well or at least better.  

I'm already seeing results he's a great coach

[Valtiel]

On 5/17/2023 at 11:03 AM, MonteScheinblum said:

This is the impetus for everything else right here.  The position of right hip and pelvis 

I always thought this was why "old" Jason Day hit the ball so high, had the occasional chunk miss, and was pretty wild with the driver. He had the little sway from P3 to the top and had to "correct". 

And not for nothing, but "new" Day is on track to finally have a season with better than tour average driving accuracy, something he's never done. 

[Jeselnik]

So Jason learned to withdraw his right foot a little as he got older, fatter and stiffer?  Another decade and Jason’s swing will look just like mine. 🤣

 

JNIK

[glk]

  

 

 

SG tee.   SG approach.   

25.           16             2023

98.           145

19             118

72.            133

13.             127

74              142

48              110

62               33       2016.   3 wins.  Players wi

3                 25        2015.  5 wins.  PGA win

18                72

18                 101

 

 

              

[mocokid]

On 5/17/2023 at 1:58 PM, GungHoGolf said:

Here is before and after P5.5ish. Major difference in shaft plane - it was above right shoulder before, and nearly down to elbow after. Right elbow is more extended, hands are below belt line and have not gone as far out towards ball. Hips more open. Regarding camera angle, it's higher on the before (compare head position with horizon), but if it were lower it would make the before club shaft look even steeper.

 

 

Top before and after - shoulder plane steeper, club face slightly more closed (left wrist looks flat in both, so perhaps a slightly stronger left hand grip), slightly more laid off, less radial deviation of left wrist, hips more rotated and tilted (right hip higher):

 

 

 

Really has built up leg muscles!!