Handicap

[goudok]

First not sure if this is the right area for this, so please move if appropriately if it isn't.  

Now, before I start getting screamed by the handicap police or the rule police, I know what a handicap is, in fact I pay for official USGA handicap, I know the reasoning behind it, I know exactly how it's calculated, now that is out of the way I want to address some issues that I have with it.

 

I am currently an official 4.1 handicap per USGA handicapping equation.  While sure it's nice to say I am a sub 5, but let's look at the issues I have with this.  95% of my rounds are 9 hole rounds at my local 2 courses.  One, I know the courses inside out and can quite often (more than the 40% that USGA takes into account 8 out of last 20) shoot between 35-38, two, there is no rough.  So missing fairways does not penalize you at all.  I know (at least thats what ive been told) USGA groups consecutive nines together, so quite often I will go 37-38 2 days apart, USGA will group them together and rating is a 70 on one course and 71 on the other which gives me my 4.1. Now, a buddy of mine used to play collegiate golf in the 90s and currently a 3.  So based on that he gives me a stroke and off we go, however his "anti" handicap the worst 12 rounds is probably a 5 and way better than my anti handicap.  Now, I very rarely will shoot over 85, but quite often will go 80-82 on courses I don't play much and have ZERO chance in competing against him.  We are close on paper, but yet miles apart.

 

Again, I know these are the rules, but I started keeping my own spreadsheet where I remove worst 4 and best 2 out of my last 20 and do not group consecutive nines together and keep them separate, which put me at a 6 which I think represents my ability much better than the 4.1 USGA does.

 

Do you think there is a better way than what USGA does? 

 

[klebs01]

53 minutes ago, goudok said:

First not sure if this is the right area for this, so please move if appropriately if it isn't.  

Now, before I start getting screamed by the handicap police or the rule police, I know what a handicap is, in fact I pay for official USGA handicap, I know the reasoning behind it, I know exactly how it's calculated, now that is out of the way I want to address some issues that I have with it.

 

I am currently an official 4.1 handicap per USGA handicapping equation.  While sure it's nice to say I am a sub 5, but let's look at the issues I have with this.  95% of my rounds are 9 hole rounds at my local 2 courses.  One, I know the courses inside out and can quite often (more than the 40% that USGA takes into account 8 out of last 20) shoot between 35-38, two, there is no rough.  So missing fairways does not penalize you at all.  I know (at least thats what ive been told) USGA groups consecutive nines together, so quite often I will go 37-38 2 days apart, USGA will group them together and rating is a 70 on one course and 71 on the other which gives me my 4.1. Now, a buddy of mine used to play collegiate golf in the 90s and currently a 3.  So based on that he gives me a stroke and off we go, however his "anti" handicap the worst 12 rounds is probably a 5 and way better than my anti handicap.  Now, I very rarely will shoot over 85, but quite often will go 80-82 on courses I don't play much and have ZERO chance in competing against him.  We are close on paper, but yet miles apart.

 

Again, I know these are the rules, but I started keeping my own spreadsheet where I remove worst 4 and best 2 out of my last 20 and do not group consecutive nines together and keep them separate, which put me at a 6 which I think represents my ability much better than the 4.1 USGA does.

 

Do you think there is a better way than what USGA does? 

 

You’ve demonstrated you can play to a 4. Play better. 

[Wooley12]

4 hours ago, goudok said:

Do you think there is a better way than what USGA does? 

 

The outcomes of most money matches are determined when the strokes are negotiated at the first tee. 

Edited June 21, 2023 by Wooley12

[Augster]

You need to get more consistent or play more courses. 
 

Due to all of the things you mention, your cap will only be good up against others that only play your course. 
 

In that respect, the WHS is spot on. The handicap system works amazingly for guys that play the same course, or a couple courses, over and over making up most of their last 20. 
 

To truly have a cap that travels, YOU need to travel. If your last 20 rounds is made up of, say, 15 different courses, you’ll have a true representation of what your cap should be when you play a random course. 
 

When all your rounds are at the same course, from the same tees, your cap will be artificially low for travel games, but spot on for home games. 
 

My advice: only play your friend at home. 
 

I play well over 100 matches/team games etc., all handicapped, during the course of a summer. When you play those games at home, with other honest homers, the games are absolutely equitable using the WHS. 
 

But when I play my friend from another club, who is a +1 and has to usually give me 7, I have to play really, really well if we play at a neutral course to have any type of chance against him. His standard deviation at a random course is going to be significantly lower than my standard deviation just due to him having more skill and the nature of his game.
 

There isn’t a lot of trouble he can get in when he can hit a 230-240 yard cut into the fairway nearly every tee. That type of consistency travels. 

 

I’d say look at your own game. How can you get better/more consistent? If you can’t get better, start playing lots of different courses. At least you’ll have a travel handicap to play games with. 

[st1800e]

Some handicaps travel well, and others don't. AS has been said , playing the same course over and over, is a false sense of security.   

 

To paraphrase Winston Churchill, the handicap system isn't perfect, but it's the best one we have.  

 

And playing only 9 hole rounds, eliminates some of the fatigue, both mental and physical that one experiences on the back nine.   And, if I read correctly, you're not playing a match on those 9 hole rounds.  Lots of factors.

[nsxguy]

7 hours ago, goudok said:

First not sure if this is the right area for this, so please move if appropriately if it isn't.  

Now, before I start getting screamed by the handicap police or the rule police, I know what a handicap is, in fact I pay for official USGA handicap, I know the reasoning behind it, I know exactly how it's calculated, now that is out of the way I want to address some issues that I have with it.

 

I am currently an official 4.1 handicap per USGA handicapping equation.  While sure it's nice to say I am a sub 5, but let's look at the issues I have with this.  95% of my rounds are 9 hole rounds at my local 2 courses.  One, I know the courses inside out and can quite often (more than the 40% that USGA takes into account 8 out of last 20) shoot between 35-38, two, there is no rough.  So missing fairways does not penalize you at all.  I know (at least thats what ive been told) USGA groups consecutive nines together, so quite often I will go 37-38 2 days apart, USGA will group them together and rating is a 70 on one course and 71 on the other which gives me my 4.1. Now, a buddy of mine used to play collegiate golf in the 90s and currently a 3.  So based on that he gives me a stroke and off we go, however his "anti" handicap the worst 12 rounds is probably a 5 and way better than my anti handicap.  Now, I very rarely will shoot over 85, but quite often will go 80-82 on courses I don't play much and have ZERO chance in competing against him.  We are close on paper, but yet miles apart.

 

Again, I know these are the rules, but I started keeping my own spreadsheet where I remove worst 4 and best 2 out of my last 20 and do not group consecutive nines together and keep them separate, which put me at a 6 which I think represents my ability much better than the 4.1 USGA does.

 

Do you think there is a better way than what USGA does? 

 

 

No.

 

But nothing holds you to GHIN. Negotiate more strokes with your buddy,,,,,,,,,,, if you can.

[JJFWebster]

I'd question the rating of your home course but, as others mentioned, some handicaps will travel better than others. I know my courses well but they still force me to hit my lines. I find I'm able to pull driver more and I'm penalized less at most away courses around here.

[goudok]

I understand what everyone is saying and somewhat agree.  Play better, play more courses, but I Am a member at my courses and not really going to play many more courses since I have a membership, just doesn't make economic sense. 

 

To paraphrase Winston Churchill, the handicap system isn't perfect, but it's the best one we have., but is it?

 

Of course playing nine holes eliminates factors mentioned above.  As someone mentioned playing against a +1 and having to get 7 strokes on a neutral course where a +1 will have much less variance, exactly my point, if is the best system we have then we wouldn't have these issues.  It took me a whole of 5 minutes to come up with something better for me that I can use to track my improvement.   As USGA states it is the potential ability, why not have the actual ability.  

 

[goudok]

1 minute ago, JJFWebster said:

I'd question the rating of your home course but, as others mentioned, some handicaps will travel better than others. I know my courses well but they still force me to hit my lines. I find I'm able to pull driver more and I'm penalized less at most away courses around here.

Again, this is spot on, but whose fault is that for potentially having a wrong rating.  I can only control what I do, which is play by the rules and enter my scores that I shoot.  I am not saying my courses are easy, they have ob on every hole both sides, but between the fairway and the ob there is zero rough.  Also it's not like I shoot terrible on "travel" courses, but out of the best 8 rounds on my courses there is for sure at least 1 round that is around rating, which we know just lowers the handicap by a lot, where if I show up to a course I dont play much there is almost no chance of having an even rating round.

 

 

I am not saying handicapping is wrong, it is accurate for what it is, but I personally do not 100% agree with it, to me a player A shooting 75 20 times in a row and player B shooting 75 8 times and 80 12 times is not the same caliber player, but per handicap they are.  That is all Im saying.  

 

[klebs01]

11 minutes ago, goudok said:

I understand what everyone is saying and somewhat agree.  Play better, play more courses, but I Am a member at my courses and not really going to play many more courses since I have a membership, just doesn't make economic sense. 

 

To paraphrase Winston Churchill, the handicap system isn't perfect, but it's the best one we have., but is it?

 

Of course playing nine holes eliminates factors mentioned above.  As someone mentioned playing against a +1 and having to get 7 strokes on a neutral course where a +1 will have much less variance, exactly my point, if is the best system we have then we wouldn't have these issues.  It took me a whole of 5 minutes to come up with something better for me that I can use to track my improvement.   As USGA states it is the potential ability, why not have the actual ability.  

 

the purpose of the handicap isn’t to track your improvement.  It’s to make equitable matches. It isn’t designed to make it a 50-50 proposition either. It is designed to give a slight advantage to the better player. 

[SNIPERBBB]

On 6/21/2023 at 12:33 AM, goudok said:

Again, this is spot on, but whose fault is that for potentially having a wrong rating.  I can only control what I do, which is play by the rules and enter my scores that I shoot.  I am not saying my courses are easy, they have ob on every hole both sides, but between the fairway and the ob there is zero rough.  Also it's not like I shoot terrible on "travel" courses, but out of the best 8 rounds on my courses there is for sure at least 1 round that is around rating, which we know just lowers the handicap by a lot, where if I show up to a course I dont play much there is almost no chance of having an even rating round.

 

 

I am not saying handicapping is wrong, it is accurate for what it is, but I personally do not 100% agree with it, to me a player A shooting 75 20 times in a row and player B shooting 75 8 times and 80 12 times is not the same caliber player, but per handicap they are.  That is all Im saying.  

 

Think about it this way, would you want to give stokes to an opponent that if they play their best game you lose by 2+ strokes unless you have a career day? I can live with a guy shooting par against me that I give strokes to when I know most days he's not breaking 40/80. Its a bit obnoxious when you know the guy can shoot par or close to it on competition day but when it doesn't matter intentionally doesn't break 40/80.

 

The system has to figure on each player playing at their best.  Its what supposed to keep manipulation(sandbagging/vanity capping) to a minimum.

[rawlins]

On 6/20/2023 at 4:38 PM, goudok said:

First not sure if this is the right area for this, so please move if appropriately if it isn't.  

Now, before I start getting screamed by the handicap police or the rule police, I know what a handicap is, in fact I pay for official USGA handicap, I know the reasoning behind it, I know exactly how it's calculated, now that is out of the way I want to address some issues that I have with it.

 

I am currently an official 4.1 handicap per USGA handicapping equation.  While sure it's nice to say I am a sub 5, but let's look at the issues I have with this.  95% of my rounds are 9 hole rounds at my local 2 courses.  One, I know the courses inside out and can quite often (more than the 40% that USGA takes into account 8 out of last 20) shoot between 35-38, two, there is no rough.  So missing fairways does not penalize you at all.  I know (at least thats what ive been told) USGA groups consecutive nines together, so quite often I will go 37-38 2 days apart, USGA will group them together and rating is a 70 on one course and 71 on the other which gives me my 4.1. Now, a buddy of mine used to play collegiate golf in the 90s and currently a 3.  So based on that he gives me a stroke and off we go, however his "anti" handicap the worst 12 rounds is probably a 5 and way better than my anti handicap.  Now, I very rarely will shoot over 85, but quite often will go 80-82 on courses I don't play much and have ZERO chance in competing against him.  We are close on paper, but yet miles apart.

 

Again, I know these are the rules, but I started keeping my own spreadsheet where I remove worst 4 and best 2 out of my last 20 and do not group consecutive nines together and keep them separate, which put me at a 6 which I think represents my ability much better than the 4.1 USGA does.

 

Do you think there is a better way than what USGA does? 

 

95% of your rounds have likely reduced variance vs playing 18 holes. This likely lowers your index and negatively impacts you when you take your index to play 18 vs your buddy.

 

Sounds like you have done the mathematical gymnastics to feel comfortable with a better index for your matches. Alternate idea: Use your spreadsheet to keep an 18 vs 9 or combined 9s index.

 

Old and pre WHS, with a small sample, but relevant:

https://thegrint.com/range/2012/11/golf-handicaps-are-different-for-9-and-18-hole-rounds/

 

My index is higher than yours which introduces another type of variance... In my last 20 posted rounds (18 holes) I have had two 46-39 rounds where I "found it on the back" and a more common 38-46 after I found cold beverages at the turn.

 

 

On 6/20/2023 at 11:06 PM, st1800e said:

Some handicaps travel well, and others don't. AS has been said , playing the same course over and over, is a false sense of security.   

 

To paraphrase Winston Churchill, the handicap system isn't perfect, but it's the best one we have.  

 

And playing only 9 hole rounds, eliminates some of the fatigue, both mental and physical that one experiences on the back nine.   And, if I read correctly, you're not playing a match on those 9 hole rounds.  Lots of factors.

 

 

[goudok]

4 minutes ago, rawlins said:

Old and pre WHS, with a small sample, but relevant:

https://thegrint.com/range/2012/11/golf-handicaps-are-different-for-9-and-18-hole-rounds/

So I actually didn't know about this as I started tracking my handicap post change to WHS.  I just did some simple math, and my 18 handicap is exactly the same (to the 10th) as what my "custom handicap" spreadsheet does.  So now this brings me back to my original question, is there a better way.  The old way of having 9 vs 18 hole handicaps seems to make more sense.

I know as I was told here handicaps aren't used to keeping track of improvements, but I use it as that and will continue to use it as that, it works for me. However, I will definitely be keeping my "custom method" plus the official usga for local tournies.

[MountainKing]

If you're a 4, and can't hang with a 3 who is giving you a stroke, something is up.  If you don't like the system, then figure something out to justify more strokes from your buddy.  Nobody says you have to use handicap.  If you're wildly inconsistent, maybe look at each others handicap cards and average out the scores and go off of that?