PCC of -1 more often than not lately!

[nsxguy]

6 hours ago, greenlight said:

That would make sense as an explanation for why it doesnt make sense. It's just amazing that some of the coldest, windiest days I've played dont get adjusted and a perfectly normal day, maybe just because a bunch of people played poorly, gets changed. 

 

Once I read a guy who said the handicapping system is "made up". Since it doesn't reside in nature, I had to admit he was right. But it WAS "made up" by experts on the subject with who knows how many years of cumulated experience and who knows how many scores crunched.

 

*I* play 2-3 per week. What do *I* know ? How can I possibly say they're wrong ? Because I gave 5 strokes to a guy who beat me straight up ? Which is, btw, far and away, at least that *I* have seen, the most frequent complaint of posters about handicaps.

 

Anyway, the PCC is a proprietary formula so anybody here explaining the "why" or "how" is just guessing, so at that point the arguments (should) stop. Speculation/discussion ? Nope, that never stops.

 

Sooooo,,,,,,,, some examples,,,,,,,,,,

 

Let's take 8 submitted scores/diffs as that is the minimum number of acceptable scores returned needed to calculate a PCC.

 

Let's take 8 "10.0 index" players.

 

1) 7 of them play exactly to a 10 and 1 plays to a 4. Is there a PCC ? Or is that considered a normal distribution of scores ? (Hint - *I* don't know )

 

2) So those 7 players, instead of playing to a 10, plays to a 17 - and the 1 still plays to a 4. PCC ? Or not ? (Again, IDK, but sounds like a "Yes" to me). Sounds like a +1 (+2 ? +3 ?) 

 

3) All 8 shoot the same scores; playing to a 10. PCC ? I'd would guess "Obviously(?) No"

 

4) All 8 play to approx a 17; much worse than their index. PCC ? Likely wouldn't make a difference in one's handicap but,,,,,,

 

5) All 8 play to approx a 4; much better than their index. PCC ? ALL of their handicaps WILL be affected.

 

Now these are extreme examples and, of course, there are often more scores and far more vairability in them, but,,,,,,,,,, And one can go forward with any number of combinations amongst just these 8, but exactly how "they" determine the PCC ? Again, don't know.

 

 

2 hours ago, Oh Hi Carl said:

Agree that it doesn't seem to make sense. 

 

Last week I played a set of tees that was as far back as I've ever seen them at my home course.  Plus, I played early when the ground was wet with dew.  The course hadn't played that long all year.  Then I see that I got a -0.5 adjustment.  I guess maybe later in the day the ball was rolling out more from that set of tees and people shot good scores.  

 

This raises a question: does the system look at scores on a given day on that corse regardless of tee, or does it only compare your differential to the differentials of others who played the same tee that day?  On this given day, I believe the whites were where they normally are, but the tees I played were stretched out to the max.   

 

 

 

That's a pretty good question as I believe it's simply(?) the scores/differentials generated by the players that determine the PCC. I believe all differentials are lumped together.

 

But since I also believe the PCC is looking for statistical anomalies over a day, I don't believe they would separate by tee set. Someone more knowledgeable than I might be along shortly to confirm/deny.

 

As for the tips being "tipped out", I believe the course is expected to follow USGA guidelines vis-a-vis keeping the 18-hole distance played within 300 yards of the stated length on the scorecard.

 

I don't know how those lengths are measured, whether it's simply by actual tee position to the center of the green, or if it's from tee to actual pin position.

 

But, if it's within said 300 yards the differential is what it is (before any PCC), regardless of which holes may be made tougher and which may be made a bit easier.

 

Hope this helps (rather than confuses more )

[david.c.w]

interesting.  3 of my past 13 rounds had a -1 PCC.   

 

Recent stats:

• Last 13 rounds:  3 PCC adjustments, all -1
• 2023:  35 rounds, 4 PCC adjustments, three -1 and one +1
• 2022:  61 rounds, 1 PCC adjustment, -1

 

 

 

[Chunkitgood]

The problem is a perversion of the handicap system by applying it to flighted competitions so there can be more “winners.”

 

Any meaningful competition should be straight up.  The handicap system is ok for allowing poorer golfers to have an interesting round with better ones, but for anything serious?  

[Toeknail]

14 hours ago, Chunkitgood said:

The problem is a perversion of the handicap system by applying it to flighted competitions so there can be more “winners.”

 

Any meaningful competition should be straight up.  The handicap system is ok for allowing poorer golfers to have an interesting round with better ones, but for anything serious?  

For me, the handicap is more a measure of my golf game… it’s not about competition. I understand that many (most?) see it differently, but I don’t care about using a handicap in competition, I just want to be a better golfer and the handicap lets me gauge that. 

[North Butte]

50 minutes ago, Toeknail said:

For me, the handicap is more a measure of my golf game… it’s not about competition. I understand that many (most?) see it differently, but I don’t care about using a handicap in competition, I just want to be a better golfer and the handicap lets me gauge that. 

There are any number of better ways to evaluate your game and learn how to be a better golfer. 

 

What you're really doing is comparing yourself to other golfers without actually having to compete against anyone. Much easier that way. 

[Toeknail]

3 hours ago, North Butte said:

There are any number of better ways to evaluate your game and learn how to be a better golfer. 

 

What you're really doing is comparing yourself to other golfers without actually having to compete against anyone. Much easier that way. 

I’m competing against the course. I do compete against others in a weekly league and that competition doesn’t motivate me as much as playing well for the sake of playing well does. 
 

And as far as learning to be a better golfer goes… I take lessons and I practice, but my goal is to see improvement on the scorecards (which I believe would be reflected by handicap).

[North Butte]

1 hour ago, Toeknail said:

I’m competing against the course. I do compete against others in a weekly league and that competition doesn’t motivate me as much as playing well for the sake of playing well does. 
 

And as far as learning to be a better golfer goes… I take lessons and I practice, but my goal is to see improvement on the scorecards (which I believe would be reflected by handicap).

Not to belabor the point you may already understand, but the handicap only reflects the best 40% of your scores. for improving your game you would do better to focus on reducing your worst scores. Or at least give the bad scores equal attention to the best ones.

[Loki]

Everyone knows that the PCC is only adjusted when the scores posted on the day of play are out of the norm, right?  Meaning that if there was an adverse weather event on the day of play, and no one post their score, there isn't a PCC adjustment.

[Toeknail]

8 hours ago, Loki said:

Everyone knows that the PCC is only adjusted when the scores posted on the day of play are out of the norm, right?  Meaning that if there was an adverse weather event on the day of play, and no one post their score, there isn't a PCC adjustment.

Yes, provided there are at least 8 scores posted that day. Also, adverse weather would presumably  only apply to a positive pcc (not a negative). 

[Loki]

14 hours ago, Toeknail said:

Yes, provided there are at least 8 scores posted that day. Also, adverse weather would presumably  only apply to a positive pcc (not a negative). 

Thanks for the 8 scores stat. Learn something new every day.

[nsxguy]

On 8/1/2023 at 8:19 AM, Toeknail said:

Yes, provided there are at least 8 scores posted that day. Also, adverse weather would presumably  only apply to a positive pcc (not a negative). 

 

I don't think one should focus too much on an adverse weather event. I think it's the most likely factor but certainly not a given.

 

We seem to take for granted that weather is the primary cause of PCCs in general, and that's probably true, yet it's been said time and again that weather is not considered in the PCC; ONLY scores vs. expected scores.

 

And I'm not saying "we" are wrong about the weather being the MAIN factor, but it might rain like the dickens on late-day players while early players played in wonderful conditions - or vice versa - but ALL rounds that day would get the PCC.

 

Frankly, I don't recall all that much discussion around here about causes of PCC adjustments - just surprise that one occurred.

 

Thought these effects are often much more subtle, pins in uncommonly difficult (or easy) positions might more often have a PCC effect.

 

Wind (although that would be weather-related, wouldn't it ?) going opposite the prevailing direction. Some tees, and therefore hole lengths being different; being further back (or closer) than usual, might affect scores on certain holes. Even pin rotation from day to day (FMB, MBF, BFM) may make the course easier or harder to score.

 

So while adverse weather would certainly be A cause of "only a positive PCC",,,,,,,,,, Again, I'd say "most likely", but not a given.