Odd quirk in posting partial scores

davep043 · March 2

14 hours ago, nsxguy said:

My first thought would be, the "default" value for each hole would be based on the player's 'cap. 9 would default to PAR, but 10-27 would default to BOGEY. 27 or higher to DOUBLE BOGEY - you know, most likely/common single hole score. <-- now THAT would be good design,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, IMO of course.

I suppose that if the goal was to make it harder to screw up, the default value would be the dash, and any score the player entered would be intentionally entered. Or simply eliminate the horizontal scroll of possible values, and require that an actual number button be pushed, which would make score entry the same, whether stats were also being entered or not.

DaveLeeNC · March 2

28 minutes ago, davep043 said:

I suppose that if the goal was to make it harder to screw up, the default value would be the dash, and any score the player entered would be intentionally entered. Or simply eliminate the horizontal scroll of possible values, and require that an actual number button be pushed, which would make score entry the same, whether stats were also being entered or not.

As best as I can determine, if you enter NOTHING on the web interface (with or without stats) you get a hole not played. If you enter NOTHING on the Android interface without stats you get a hole not played. If you enter NOTHING on the Android interface with stats you get a gross par. Additionally, the indication of a hole not played (when entering scores with stats) is different when entering with stats (vs no stats) on Android (and I assume IOS). The indication of a hole not played on Android with stats is not even a legal (or even possible) entry on the Web interface (with or without stats) or the Android interface without stats.

This is something that should never have passed the design review step (if there was one).

dave

davep043 · March 2

5 minutes ago, DaveLeeNC said:

As best as I can determine, if you enter NOTHING on the web interface (with or without stats) you get a hole not played. If you enter NOTHING on the Android interface without stats you get a hole not played. If you enter NOTHING on the Android interface with stats you get a gross par.

I also use Android. If you enter Post Score after entering 10 to 17 holes (without stats), holes without a score are treated as Not Played, just as you say. The same happens if you enter Post Score (with stats) after entering only 10 to 17 holes. The "problem" happens when the Player hits Next Hole (with stats) for holes not played, essentially accepting the default of gross par. Like I suggest, one solution is to make Not Played the default (with stats), or to simply require a numerical score to be entered instead of using the "slider with default".

nsxguy · March 3

10 hours ago, DaveLeeNC said:

As best as I can determine, if you enter NOTHING on the web interface (with or without stats) you get a hole not played. If you enter NOTHING on the Android interface without stats you get a hole not played. If you enter NOTHING on the Android interface with stats you get a gross par. Additionally, the indication of a hole not played (when entering scores with stats) is different when entering with stats (vs no stats) on Android (and I assume IOS). The indication of a hole not played on Android with stats is not even a legal (or even possible) entry on the Web interface (with or without stats) or the Android interface without stats.

This is something that should never have passed the design review step (if there was one).

dave

Hey dave, as I'm sure you realize, the lack of real estate on the phone app is (mostly) the reason why they work differently.

Still doesn't excuse the phone app not having a "help screen" and/or recognizing the player logging onto the app has not ever, or doesn't commonly, post 10-17 score rounds - which is everyone since this is very new. Too easy to make a mistake and not intuitive enough.

This is a new system and I daresay most golfers don't skip holes. Upon clicking on the "10-17 hole" button, then "Enter Hole-by-hole Scores", the next page, before entering a single score, should have a brief pop-up message on how to enter the partial round score.

For PLAIN HBH, the numeric keypad is likely enough, as I would think most would understand to simply leave the box empty for a skipped hole. But a help pop-up saying something like "Use numeric keypad to enter each hole's score. For skipped holes, just leave the box empty and click into the next hole played.". You could also add a "Do not show again" checkbox for those who might do this fairly often and, after understanding the process, would rather not see the message again.

For STATS HBH, a similar pop-up message, something like "If the highlighted score is the score for that hole, simply enter the stats and click "Next hole". Otherwise scroll to the score made, click on it, proceed to the stats, the "Next Hole". If the hole was skipped, click on the long dash (-) to the LEFT end of the scores scroll line, then click "Next hole"". As above you could also have a checkbox "Do not show again".

There should also be a help box, similar to the circled "i" to the right of Total Adj Score" (HBH), or Total Score" (HBHWS) so if the user forgets what to do he can pop up the help message again - easy peasy.

I didn't go any further because, unlike davep (I believe), I have no easy way of deleting a round I enter in experimenting with this - even though he says there are ways to cancel out before (really) entering the round into GHIN.

Anyhow, once the user gets used to it, I suppose it's pretty easy.

DaveLeeNC · March 3

@nsxguy If I were the King of Golf, I would (for the cases of with and without stats across all the platforms)

Make the indication of an unplayed hole consistent (a dash seems good enough to me)
Require a positive entry (requiring that the user input something into the score field) in all cases (no entry would not be acceptable)
If the users feel that a default is important for efficiency, then net par would seem to be the best answer here. Or better still default to requiring an entry in all cases but have a user defined setting that allows the user to define his/her default entry.

But I suspect that my reign as King of Golf would be short 😁

dave

Edited March 3 by DaveLeeNC

nsxguy · March 3

50 minutes ago, DaveLeeNC said:

@nsxguy If I were the King of Golf, I would (for the cases of with and without stats across all the platforms)

Make the indication of an unplayed hole consistent (a dash seems good enough to me)

Require a positive entry (requiring that the user input something into the score field) in all cases (no entry would not be acceptable)

If the users feel that a default is important for efficiency, then net par would seem to be the best answer here. Or better still default to requiring an entry in all cases but have a user defined setting that allows the user to define his/her default entry.

But I suspect that my reign as King of Golf would be short 😁

dave

The/A problem is, in these times, where "time is money" and nobody has enough time to get things done, most people want convenience; i.e. "Get it done and move on".

"More clicks ? I have to press more buttons ?"

I haven't done a deep dive into the phone app simply because a) it's not my job, and b) I don't use it.

But curiosity, and discussion, sometimes gets the better of me. So, after fiddling around with it a little, I guess my main objections are, a) I don't see it as all that intuitive and b) I don't see any small "help" button - it wouldn't take much.

My guess would be that most players using GHIN enter their rounds the same way round after round.

So, with a relatively short learning curve, it becomes routine and little thought required. Easy peasy. The 10-17 scenario is a little different & the hole skip feature is a bit confusing, but again, with a little familiarity, no biggie.

And, if I'm reading davep's posts correctly, if a player stopped after 10, and before 18's completed, one doesn't even need the "skip" feature. Just hit "Post Score" after entering the last hole played.

I mean how often does someone play 10-17 and skip say, hole 12 ?

And a golfer can keep scoring/stats "real-time". Personally, *I* don't have my phone out during the round - but a lot of players do.

ChaosTheory · March 15

We have 2 holes closed today. We use Golf Genius for score posting. I’m going to be interested to see how it handles this.

ChaosTheory · March 15

On 2/23/2024 at 8:14 AM, bluedot said:

This gets a bit into the weeds, but here goes. We've been playing less than 18 holes most days at my club since early November because of a bunker renovation project, and since mid-January when the old "net par" method for holes not played went away, we've been posting hole-by-hole scores.

When you post a partial round of more than 9 holes, you are now supposed to select "10-17" for the number of holes played, then enter the hole-by-hole scores, skipping the holes not played. At the end of that when you select post, the GHIN app will "remind" you that you have not entered scores for all holes and ask if you want to post anyway. When you post, you then see that total of strokes taken on the holes that you DID play, with the number of holes in parentheses, but also an 18 hole differential.

All well and good, EXCEPT that one of my regular partners told me that he also posts stats, and when he does, the GHIN app not only gives him a score as if he had played all 18 holes, plus a differential but he can see that "scores" for the holes he did NOT play, and that they are NOT net par. He also said that there seems to be no connection to how well or how poorly he was playing that day.

So yesterday, with the approval of my head pro, I double entered my score. I posted both rounds hole-by-hole, but one with and one without stats. We played 16 holes, with the 2nd and 3rd holes closed; 3 is a par 5 and the #1 handicap hole, so a stroke hole for me. Here's what happened:

Without stats: GHIN posted "69 (16) 6.8", denoting the actual strokes taken on 16 hole, and a projected 18 hole differential

With stats: GHIN posted "77" with a differential of 6.2. When I selected "View Scorecard", GHIN had given me par on both #2 and #3, despite #3 being the #1 handicap hole on the golf course.

FWIW, we deleted the higher of the two, so only the 6.2 goes into calculating my index.

Obviously, the difference in the differentials is the puzzling part. While it is unlikely that 0.6 on one score will matter, and in a couple of weeks the bunker project will be complete and we'll go back to playing 18 holes. But it's odd, to say the least, and when my head pro called the state association, they couldn't explain it either. So perhaps just a glitch?

Having played a 16 hole round today, it now occurs to me, what good are the stats that your friend was posting? The number of putts, GIR, etc are all meaningless because of the irregular number of holes. At least the way I see it.

Just wondering.

bluedot · March 15

8 hours ago, ChaosTheory said:

We have 2 holes closed today. We use Golf Genius for score posting. I’m going to be interested to see how it handles this.

1. If you post without stats, simply select hole-by-hole, then 10-17, then enter the hole by hole scores, skipping the holes that were closed. You’ll be asked if you want to post anyway, which you do, and you’ll then see your actual strokes taken for the 16 holes you played, but with an 18 hole differential.

2. The process is slightly different for hole-by-hole with stats; GHIN defaults to par for each hole, and you change it accordingly. But for the holes skipped, you have to slide the score line to the right until you see a dash instead of a number, and select the dash.

5 minutes ago, ChaosTheory said:

Having played a 16 hole round today, it now occurs to me, what good are the stats that your friend was posting? The number of putts, GIR, etc are all meaningless because of the irregular number of holes. At least the way I see it.

Just wondering.

I don’t know how he uses the stats from partial rounds; I don’t post that way, but he’s a smart guy and I assume he has a method.

And knowing that you hit 12 of 16 greens still gives you a percentage, as does fairways, as well putts per GIR.

North Butte · March 25

Any "stat" that ceases to make sense when computed over an arbitrary number of holes is a poor indicator that should not be relied upon for analytics.