Final Update!!! Are iron hosel bore depths different throughout a set....I'm an Idiot!!!

[quizzylish]

Hey guys, quick question here. I bought a used set of iron shafts and put them in in my new Srixon irons.  
 

Well, now that my set is all put together I noticed my seven iron is not nearly as long as it should be. It’s really close to my eight iron length and pretty far away from my six iron.  
 

When I had the shafts laid out, I didn’t ever notice that the seven iron shaft was particularly shorter than anything else, the progression was appropriate.  so is it possible that the bore depth was really deep on the seven iron club?

 

if that is the case, do I lengthen the backend or should I put something light in the hosel to take away that depth in there and lengthen the club?  
 

I have to take the club apart anyways because I ended up putting like a 6 g weight to swing weight the club properly which honestly should’ve been a red flag!! 

Edited April 17 by quizzylish

[Nessism]

Read up about "bottom of bore to ground" distance.  It varies from heads of different model, and from manufacturer to manufacturer.  That's why you can't buy pulls from XYZ company and expect them to play "standard length" in brand 123 heads.

 

Not all companies measure the same either.  In fact, most differ, some significantly.

 

Lastly, you may have had remnant epoxy at the bottom of the hosel bore.

 

For reasons like this, I always build using a club length ruler, to make sure the clubs are the length I want.  I like the Mitchell ruler.  Also, a swingweight scale is needed.  If you don't have these tools, they are a good investment.

[Stuart_G]

2 hours ago, quizzylish said:

if that is the case, do I lengthen the backend or should I put something light in the hosel to take away that depth in there and lengthen the club?  

 

 

As already mentioned - the problem isn't the bore depth, it's the head's BBGM.   Bore depth doesn't have anything to do with the resulting playing length.

 

Doing a blind bore insertion (not fully inserted into the hosel) should NOT be done with taper tip shafts, you'll mess up the fit of the shaft in the hosel.   For parallel tip shafts and hosels, it can be done but you want to make sure you have enough of the tip inserted for a good glue joint.   You'll have to measure the actual bore depth to see how much "extra" room you might have.  I'd say you want a minimum of 1.0" of the tip inserted for slower and mid speed players - and 1-1/4" for faster swing speed players.

 

Also, the less the insertion depth, the less room for error during the epoxy process - in the fit of the shaft in the hosel, epoxy choice, mixing, surface prep and cleanliness of the tip and hosel, etc....

 

[Socrates]

6 hours ago, quizzylish said:

Hey guys, quick question here. I bought a used set of iron shafts and put them in in my new Srixon irons.  
 

Well, now that my set is all put together I noticed my seven iron is not nearly as long as it should be. It’s really close to my eight iron length and pretty far away from my six iron.  
 

When I had the shafts laid out, I didn’t ever notice that the seven iron shaft was particularly shorter than anything else, the progression was appropriate.  so is it possible that the bore depth was really deep on the seven iron club?

 

if that is the case, do I lengthen the backend or should I put something light in the hosel to take away that depth in there and lengthen the club?  
 

I have to take the club apart anyways because I ended up putting like a 6 g weight to swing weight the club properly which honestly should’ve been a red flag!! 

At this point, it really doesn't matter what anyone says, your only real recourse is to take the 6,7,8 irons apart and make some measurements.  You need to find out what the issue is (short shaft, deep insertion depth, missing something in the hosel, etc...).  I wouldn't be ok with just making some compensation (an extension) and then have the club play different.

 

I won't assume that you checked the SW before you assembled, because if you did, you would have noticed that one iron or more irons was a different SW.

 

[quizzylish]

22 minutes ago, Socrates said:

At this point, it really doesn't matter what anyone says, your only real recourse is to take the 6,7,8 irons apart and make some measurements.  You need to find out what the issue is (short shaft, deep insertion depth, missing something in the hosel, etc...).  I wouldn't be ok with just making some compensation (an extension) and then have the club play different.

 

I won't assume that you checked the SW before you assembled, because if you did, you would have noticed that one iron or more irons was a different SW.

 

I did check swing weight before I assembled.  I did have to put more weight in the tip of this shaft to get to D3  and it should have been a red flag bit I chalked it up to a variance of head weight, not length.  

[quizzylish]

4 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

As already mentioned - the problem isn't the bore depth, it's the head's BBGM.   Bore depth doesn't have anything to do with the resulting playing length.

 

Doing a blind bore insertion (not fully inserted into the hosel) should NOT be done with taper tip shafts, you'll mess up the fit of the shaft in the hosel.   For parallel tip shafts and hosels, it can be done but you want to make sure you have enough of the tip inserted for a good glue joint.   You'll have to measure the actual bore depth to see how much "extra" room you might have.  I'd say you want a minimum of 1.0" of the tip inserted for slower and mid speed players - and 1-1/4" for faster swing speed players.

 

Also, the less the insertion depth, the less room for error during the epoxy process - in the fit of the shaft in the hosel, epoxy choice, mixing, surface prep and cleanliness of the tip and hosel, etc....

 

I understand what you’re saying.  My question has to deal with different bore depths within a set, not between manufacturers.  
 

Is it possible a bore depth is different for the 7 iron vs. the 4 iron or PW within the same set?   
 

i understand now the  stock length for a used set may be different from one set to the next bet everything was good until I got to the 7 iron in this set.  Again it should have been a red flag.  

Edited March 3 by quizzylish

[Seamus_McDuff]

20 minutes ago, quizzylish said:

I understand what you’re saying.  My question has to deal with different bore depths within a set, not between manufacturers.  
 

Is it possible a bore depth is different for the 7 iron vs. the 4 iron or PW within the same set?   
 

i understand now the  stock length for a used set may be different from one set to the next bet everything was good until I got to the 7 iron in this set.  Again it should have been a red flag.  

Bore depth should not be different, but you never know. As mentioned, pull the 6, 7, 8 or at least the 7, 8 and compare bore depth and shaft length. 

[st1800e]

It could be the 7iron the shaft came out of head with a barrel weight in the bore.  No way to know now.  
 

Do you remember if the shaft required additional tip prep before you installed it? 

[TwistedSister]

8 hours ago, quizzylish said:

Hey guys, quick question here. I bought a used set of iron shafts and put them in in my new Srixon irons.  
 

Well, now that my set is all put together I noticed my seven iron is not nearly as long as it should be. It’s really close to my eight iron length and pretty far away from my six iron.  
 

When I had the shafts laid out, I didn’t ever notice that the seven iron shaft was particularly shorter than anything else, the progression was appropriate.  so is it possible that the bore depth was really deep on the seven iron club?

 

if that is the case, do I lengthen the backend or should I put something light in the hosel to take away that depth in there and lengthen the club?  
 

I have to take the club apart anyways because I ended up putting like a 6 g weight to swing weight the club properly which honestly should’ve been a red flag!! 

Pull the heads, check the bottom of the bore. I have noticed that invariably at least one iron in every set has a hosel weight in the bottom and man they are nearly impossible to get out.  Measure the depth on all three irons and I'll bet they are not the same.  There is a weight in one or more of them.

[Stuart_G]

11 hours ago, quizzylish said:

Is it possible a bore depth is different for the 7 iron vs. the 4 iron or PW within the same set?   
 

i understand now the  stock length for a used set may be different from one set to the next bet everything was good until I got to the 7 iron in this set.  Again it should have been a red flag.  

 

It's uncommon (but not impossible) for bore depths to intentionally be different.  And when they are intentionally different - it's usually an even progression through the set - not one single head in the middle of the set that's radically different from all the others.

 

Did these heads come to you direct from the factory/store or second hand?

 

it's possible the head could have been modified after market - hosel drilled to remove weight for some reason.   It's possible for some heads to have holes for bullet weights at the bottom of the hosel - but usually they are smaller than the shaft tip diameter - unless someone mistakenly widened that hole when "cleaning" out the hosel from a previous pull.    And as already mentioned it's possible for tip weights or even just epoxy to be left in the hosel giving the appearance of a different shorter bore depth.

 

 

[Seamus_McDuff]

On 3/3/2024 at 8:45 AM, quizzylish said:

Hey guys, quick question here. I bought a used set of iron shafts and put them in in my new Srixon irons.  
 

Well, now that my set is all put together I noticed my seven iron is not nearly as long as it should be. It’s really close to my eight iron length and pretty far away from my six iron.  
 

When I had the shafts laid out, I didn’t ever notice that the seven iron shaft was particularly shorter than anything else, the progression was appropriate.  so is it possible that the bore depth was really deep on the seven iron club?

 

if that is the case, do I lengthen the backend or should I put something light in the hosel to take away that depth in there and lengthen the club?  
 

I have to take the club apart anyways because I ended up putting like a 6 g weight to swing weight the club properly which honestly should’ve been a red flag!! 

Any update?

[quizzylish]

22 hours ago, Seamus_McDuff said:

Any update?

I pulled the 7 iron and removed the grip.  It appears the length of the shaft is right on point for 37” before the grip.

 

 I think I have a problem with the 6 iron being a little longer but the 8 iron is a little shorter making the 7 iron look suspect.  

 

 I’m in the process of taking down all the measurements and seeing where things start to shift exactly.  

Edited March 16 by quizzylish

[Ri_Redneck]

Rules of buying used components.

 

1. Measure everything twice. BBGM, hosel depth, Tip section (steel - to step, graphite - to graphics), Total length & b u t t Diameter.

2. Weigh everything twice. Shaft total weight, head weight, ferrule weight.

3. Dry fit to check hosel fit and SW/MOI.

 

Always remember, you never know what people will do. Odd stuff is less likely to happen coming from the manufacturer, but it can still happen even from there! You must be aware!

 

BT

[Golfrnut]

Have seen them differ through a set, but its usually been in sets that are combo options of an OEMs models. iE, a CB iron might be a different measurement than their MB version so when they get combo’d, you have some disparity. 

[quizzylish]

Yeah so without removing the grips from the 8 and the 6 iron to see what is going on underneath the grips I'm not sure what is going on.  The 7 iron measures right at 37" in this set, now maybe it was different in the set it came from and so it needs to be lengthened here to match the gapping.  The entire set is between 3/8" and 1/2" gapping from each club to the next, except for the 7 iron of course, that is only about 1/8-3/16" longer than the 8 iron.  

 

This is what I was seeing with the set when it was together, The 7 seemed short.  So maybe the 7 iron shaft sat differently in the club it came from and I have to lengthen it a bit to match the rest even though it will be approx 3/8" longer than standard since its right at 37" raw shaft length before the grip.  

 

Maybe the grips aren't all on the clubs all the way so its making them play longer???

[JimmyC59]

This is why I don't buy shaft pulls.

[quizzylish]

13 hours ago, JimmyC59 said:

This is why I don't buy shaft pulls.

Lesson learned here I suppose.  This was my first time buying a pulled set.  It was a great price for a DG TI set for a lot less than new and they had good grips on them as a bonus.  I'll have to be more diligent on lengths before I decide to purchase, if I ever do this again.  

[quizzylish]

I'll also have to keep a register of raw shaft length before installation to see how it matches up.  But again this could all change depending on what set I'm putting them into.  Maybe new is a hell of a lot easier to make sure the build is right instead of missing the mark and making sacrifices.  

[Socrates]

4 hours ago, quizzylish said:

I'll also have to keep a register of raw shaft length before installation to see how it matches up.  But again this could all change depending on what set I'm putting them into.  Maybe new is a hell of a lot easier to make sure the build is right instead of missing the mark and making sacrifices.  

Used pulls are always a crapshoot.  New or uncut shafts are always a better alternative.

[Ri_Redneck]

On 3/15/2024 at 9:12 PM, quizzylish said:

Yeah so without removing the grips from the 8 and the 6 iron to see what is going on underneath the grips I'm not sure what is going on.  The 7 iron measures right at 37" in this set, now maybe it was different in the set it came from and so it needs to be lengthened here to match the gapping.  The entire set is between 3/8" and 1/2" gapping from each club to the next, except for the 7 iron of course, that is only about 1/8-3/16" longer than the 8 iron.  

 

This is what I was seeing with the set when it was together, The 7 seemed short.  So maybe the 7 iron shaft sat differently in the club it came from and I have to lengthen it a bit to match the rest even though it will be approx 3/8" longer than standard since its right at 37" raw shaft length before the grip.  

 

Maybe the grips aren't all on the clubs all the way so its making them play longer???

To check this, push hard sideways against the b u t t cap of the grip. If it moves sideways more than 1/16", it's not on all the way. Also, compare it to the others. If they stay firm and the 7i moves, regrip it.

 

BT

[quizzylish]

9 minutes ago, Ri_Redneck said:

To check this, push hard sideways against the b u t t cap of the grip. If it moves sideways more than 1/16", it's not on all the way. Also, compare it to the others. If they stay firm and the 7i moves, regrip it.

 

BT

Honestly, I have noticed this a lot when checking clubs.  I'll have to take note of which ones do it and then check again after a regrip.  I have a dedicated grip remover tool coming from golfworks as we speak.  I'll be sure to check lengths before and after.  I've noticed while doing my own grips it can be easy to miss the butt end with fluid as I use a spray bottle.  I've been more diligent on using excess to make sure the grip slides on easier.  I wonder if some people why do the grips don't push it on as far, maybe worrying about busting through the cap???

[Socrates]

19 hours ago, quizzylish said:

... I wonder if some people why do the grips don't push it on as far, maybe worrying about busting through the cap???

Possibly, but more likely a lack of experience or not caring.  I'd have to say out of the 10's of thousands of grips I've put on, I've never pushed through the cap.  That being said, I learned to push on the grip by pushing on the butt cap as opposed to grabbing the middle of the grip like I see a lot of on Youtube.  Thumb or palm does the pushing and the other hand is just there to guide the grip, if at all.

Edited March 19 by Socrates

[quizzylish]

2 hours ago, Socrates said:

Possibly, but more likely a lack of experience or not caring.  I'd have to say out of the 10's of thousands of grips I've put on, I've never pushed through the cap.  That being said, I learned to push on the grip by pushing on the butt cap as opposed to grabbing the middle of the grip like a I see a lot of on Youtube.  Thumb or palm does the pushing and the other hand is just there to guide the grip, if at all.

That’s very true, I’ve never really seen it before either one time I had a putter grip that broke through the bottom, but I think that was from maybe hitting the bottom of the bag overtime.  I also have a little bit of tape extended over the end so it’s sort of covers the sharp metal.
 

It’s funny you say that I’ve learned to push from the butt end as well and you can sort of feel it hit the end of the shaft that way I know it’s seated fully and I didn’t pull it forward like I was doing by using the middle or the end, possibly thinning the grip

[Ri_Redneck]

Back when I was using steel shafts, I found out real quick that a single layer of tape on the end wasn't enough sometimes. Steel shafts can become REALLY sharp when cut and I always would put two small (maybe 1"-1.5") of masking tape over the sharp end of the shaft before the DS tape. Otherwise, a few hard hit on the bottom of the bag would cut a hole in the end of the grip. Once I moved to graphite and air installing grips, it's not an issue.

 

BT

[quizzylish]

Update!!  So, after reviewing all the clubs and taking measurements after removing all the grips, it turns out all the shafts were over.  Except for the 7 iron, that one was spot on at 37" to the end of the steel shaft.  The rest were over by 1/4 to 3/16 of an inch.   I cut everything to standard and also am going to experiment with a tighter grouping of wedges with only 1/4" reduction as Howard stated he has done on a different thread.  

 

The 1/4 inch probably wouldn't have mattered, and I thought about just lengthening the 7 iron to fix the gap but for peace of mind I wanted to just go standard length.  Unfortunately, now I'm going to have to probably pull some heads to get the swing weights back to D3/D4. 

[quizzylish]

On 3/16/2024 at 4:06 PM, Socrates said:

Used pulls are always a crapshoot.  New or uncut shafts are always a better alternative.

Lo and behold the truth finally reveals itself.  Let this be a lesson to any newb trying to pull heads and reshaft them.  I thought, I really thought, I was cleaning out the hosels the way they should be and I was 100% clean.....turns out I wasn't even close.  The 7 iron that was spot on.....well that turned out to be the only club I did right.  

 

I have pulled several club heads and I have never experienced this before now but somehow all the tip weights stayed in the hosel (except for the 7 iron) and when I was using my bristle brush to clean out the hosel I was just mashing them down.  As soon as I pulled my 9 iron head I knew I had a problem because the insertion depth was so short!!!.  I pulled every head and all the insertion depths were short because of the stuck tip weights.  I swear to god I thought I had cleaned the way they should be but now I know.  It actually took a lot of work and heat to get the hosel clean on all the heads.  I had to use a screwdriver to work the edges and free up all the stuck tip weights.  The clarity of the situation became clearer and clearer everytime a chunk of weight fell hard into the refuse!!  

 

So frustrated by the whole process but now I know to use extra good light and make sure all the remnants have made their way out when I attempt to do this again.  

Edited April 17 by quizzylish

[quizzylish]

@Howard_Jones Given my shorter lengths from standard.  I’m wondering if I don’t give your poor mans MOI matching a shot.   I’ve been reading up on it, trying to wrap my head around it.  
 

i understand the concept, but without a machine to measure it, this is where your chart comes in.  Given a 7-8 gram drop in head weight through out the set and using the same weight shaft and grip, ferrule etc.   If I follow your new lengths, I should have an MOI matched set?!?
 

I saw another post where you mention assembling shortest and longest club and then weighting those for feel.  Then following a slope between them.  
 

Or if I do my 9 iron at 36”, weight it for feel, then do I add that same weight to all the heads as I progress towards my 4 iron.  Swingweight shouldn’t be measured here correct? I could verify I drop a consistent ~.45-.46 SWP per club.  

[Howard_Jones]

21 minutes ago, quizzylish said:

@Howard_Jones Given my shorter lengths from standard.  I’m wondering if I don’t give your poor mans MOI matching a shot.   I’ve been reading up on it, trying to wrap my head around it.  
 

i understand the concept, but without a machine to measure it, this is where your chart comes in.  Given a 7-8 gram drop in head weight through out the set and using the same weight shaft and grip, ferrule etc.   If I follow your new lengths, I should have an MOI matched set?!?
 

I saw another post where you mention assembling shortest and longest club and then weighting those for feel.  Then following a slope between them.  
 

Or if I do my 9 iron at 36”, weight it for feel, then do I add that same weight to all the heads as I progress towards my 4 iron.  Swingweight shouldn’t be measured here correct? I could verify I drop a consistent ~.45-.46 SWP per club.  

Im not sure im online with you here, and i can see from this tread there has been som shaft L issues....

IF you have a #9 thats 36.00" and that club is tuned up, what you really needs to know is ACTUAL head wgt on the tuned up club. We can NOT add the same (lets say 4 grams) to all the others, its NOT like that, even if it was 9 grams plus on the #9....

You no longer have a OEM set that was SW matched, so we cant use my short cut charts for how much weight to add either, so we have to go by HEAD WGT PROGRESSION. (6.4 grams per club as 3/8")

Thats why you need to know actual head weight on the #9 after tune up, then draw a slope with the head wgt progression you shall use to make them MOI matched. 

I can only assume you like to try 3/8" between clubs from #9?
This chart shows both butt cut progression and "new play lengths", but DON'T look at butt cut progression if you messed it up, you will have to measure club by club to make sure you cut them right.

Those who have a OEM set, can use all datas here (you cant, except play length's)


If 3/8" between clubs is what you like to try, you shall measure head wgt on your #9 (after its tuned up), and draw a slope to the others with a progression of minus 6.4 grams per head longer, then you get a poor mans moi match, with a progression to SW value of 0.5 SWP per club, or 1.33 SWP per inch 

If you dont have a ruler to measure, use this link to a DIY ruler that cost a letter sheet and a free ruler from IKEA. Then you should be able to make it with a gram scale only, and still get good tolerances.

 

Edited April 18 by Howard_Jones

[quizzylish]

2 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

Im not sure im online with you here, and i can see from this tread there has been som shaft L issues....

IF you have a #9 thats 36.00" and that club is tuned up, what you really needs to know is ACTUAL head wgt on the tuned up club. We can NOT add the same (lets say 4 grams) to all the others, its NOT like that, even if it was 9 grams plus on the #9....

You no longer have a OEM set that was SW matched, so we cant use my short cut charts for how much weight to add either, so we have to go by HEAD WGT PROGRESSION. (6.4 grams per club as 3/8")

Thats why you need to know actual head weight on the #9 after tune up, then draw a slope with the head wgt progression you shall use to make them MOI matched. 

I can only assume you like to try 3/8" between clubs from #9?
This chart shows both butt cut progression and "new play lengths", but DON'T look at butt cut progression if you messed it up, you will have to measure club by club to make sure you cut them right.

Those who have a OEM set, can use all datas here (you cant, except play length's)


If 3/8" between clubs is what you like to try, you shall measure head wgt on your #9 (after its tuned up), and draw a slope to the others with a progression of minus 6.4 grams per head longer, then you get a poor mans moi match, with a progression to SW value of 0.5 SWP per club, or 1.33 SWP per inch 

If you dont have a ruler to measure, use this link to a DIY ruler that cost a letter sheet and a free ruler from IKEA. Then you should be able to make it with a gram scale only, and still get good tolerances.

 

I was actually going to follow the 10.7 mm slope for the clubs.   This gave me the closest to my current 4 iron length.  That should put me at the 7 gram progression, correct?  
 

So depending on my final weight for the best feeling 9 iron, I would then pull that head and measure it and then follow a 7 gram change in weight.  

Edited April 18 by quizzylish

[Howard_Jones]

3 hours ago, quizzylish said:

I was actually going to follow the 10.7 mm slope for the clubs.   This gave me the closest to my current 4 iron length.  That should put me at the 7 gram progression, correct?  
 

So depending on my final weight for the best feeling 9 iron, I would then pull that head and measure it and then follow a 7 gram change in weight.  

OK yes 10.7 mm is 6.9 grams (or 7 if you like)