Fitted for Irons but cannot hit 4-5 irons consistently

[Golf__Freak]

Good day WRXers

 

I have been fitted into the Blueprint S irons which i absolutely love. Feel, size, looks everything. Scores have gone from a varied 74 to 92's to a more consistent 74 to 81. I would consider myself a fairly good ball striker. 

 

I was fitted into the Dynamic Gold 120 X100 shafts, which i like the feel of, but I find I have to be more deliberate with my swing and slow things down in the backswing/transition to feel the head and get great strikes and accuracy. As soon as i step on it  little, the dispersion goes off a little. The other option was the Project X LS 6.5.

 

My Driver SS is 115mph and my 6 iron is about 92mph. My Standard shot shape is a draw.

 

The problem comes to the 4-5 irons. I feel the shaft is alot more whippy than the rest and i tend to lose the face, resulting in slices, and fat shots. The slices find the centre, but just have no control of the face. 

 

I have 2 questions regarding this:

 

1. Is this normal where the 4-5 iron in the same set feels this way? I have had the swingweights checked and they match the set (D2) and it is the same shaft. My old i25s were lighter and softer (S flex CFS shafts) so i didnt notice this as much.

2. Would the Project X LS be the better fit? I do prefer having a smoother swing to achieve the distances i need (especially up to 7 iron) but sometimes I need to step on the gas a little and this is where the LS may be better, but im worried about the smooth deliberate swings feeling harsher and losing feeling of the head. 

I will try the shafts out again, but I would like some ideas for when i go back to the fitter. 

Thanks for the help!
 

[Stuart_G]

3 hours ago, Golf__Freak said:

but I find I have to be more deliberate with my swing and slow things down in the backswing/transition to feel the head and get great strikes and accuracy.

 

 

3 hours ago, Golf__Freak said:

The problem comes to the 4-5 irons. I feel the shaft is alot more whippy than the rest and i tend to lose the face, resulting in slices, and fat shots. The slices find the centre, but just have no control of the face. 

 

The first sounds more like a head weight might be too light.  The second obviously sounds like the profile for the shaft really isn't a good fit.   But adding weight to the head to increase the swing weight to deal with the first problem will likely make the second issue worse.      But there can certainly be overlaps between heft and stiffness feel issues - so it's not always as clear as it might seem.

 

 

3 hours ago, Golf__Freak said:

1. Is this normal where the 4-5 iron in the same set feels this way?

 

No, not really.  But if there is an issue with the fit of the stiffness profile - it is more likely to show up in the longer clubs.   The shorter the club (and also the slower the swing speed) the less important the stiffness profile generally becomes.   So sometimes we tend to get away with a less than ideal stiffness profile in the shorter clubs.   

 

Also, some people actually step up the effort in their swing for the longer irons.   Have you seen what your swing speed progression is through the set?    If it's a big enough difference, that could warrant being fit into a different shaft just for those longer irons.

 

Unfortunately figuring out what shaft might be a better fit is very difficult to predict.

 

 

 

[ShortGolfer]

If you are pressing for distance, maybe you ought to consider longer clubs for the 4I and 5I spots.

Perhaps a hybrid or high lofted fairway wood?  

If you were to hit your long irons perfectly, where would you use them on the course?

Do you have inviting greens that allow you to safely roll up the fairways?  Or will using long irons get you in trouble?

 

Look at the entire bag.  Maybe another wedge would lower your scores.

Edited March 25 by ShortGolfer

[dalillama47]

Certainly try and add some hybrids.  I fought the hard fight for years hitting great scoring irons and struggling with long irons.  Slowly introduced hybrids and in consecutive years thru in a 4 , last year a 5, and this year after some testing looks like a 6 may make it's way into the bag.  Kind of becomes a confidence thing and then you get the mind set that you are going to hit a good shot, not hope you are.

[Golf__Freak]

So swingweight could be the issue, it being too light, but adding weight would make the shaft play softer im assuming, making the problem worse? 

 

Again, I will go to my fitter with this info.

I dont struggle for distance or height, my usual gapping is 10m (11 yards) between clubs. I havent had this issue until the new clubs. I would say swing speed increases as per normal, i dont try hit harder than what the length of the club gives me. from my mevo+ data, its around 95mph.

 

Driver - 285m

3 Hybrid - 215 - 230m depending on how i go after it, or whats needed

4i - 200m

5i - 190m
6i - 175m

7i - 165m

8i -155m

9i - 140m

PW - 125m

GW -115m

SW - 100m

LW - 80m

 

Anything less than 100m is a variation of all clubs from PW to LW, depending on pin location, wind, green size etc.

I like the versatility of the 4 iron, great for punches, getting out from under trees etc. Hybrid can be used too but they tend to pop up sometimes which i prefer the control of the iron. I tend to hit the 4 and 5 from 190m to 200m into greens, otherwise par 5s as a 2nd shot stinger to get into position for an easy pitch in. 

I do use a 3 hybrid which is probably the favourite club in the bag, but not looking to replace the top of the bag just yet. 

 

As for courses i play, it varies. Some courses are more forgiving, some are brutal, so depends on the day and what is needed. if im swinging well, i tend to take the higher risk shot, if not, ill tone it down.

Edited March 25 by Golf__Freak

[Stuart_G]

33 minutes ago, Golf__Freak said:

So swingweight could be the issue, it being too light, but adding weight would make the shaft play softer im assuming, making the problem worse?

 

Depends on how much you add.  It takes a lot to get a noticeable change in stiffness - maybe 6+ gm for even more sensitive players.   But it certainly wont fix the problem with the shafts being too soft.  It might only effect the ability to feel where the club head is in the back swing.

 

36 minutes ago, Golf__Freak said:

I havent had this issue until the new clubs.

 

What shaft have you used in past sets?

[Glock917]

 

1 hour ago, Golf__Freak said:

I like the versatility of the 4 iron, great for punches, getting out from under trees etc. Hybrid can be used too but they tend to pop up sometimes which i prefer the control of the iron. I tend to hit the 4 and 5 from 190m to 200m into greens, otherwise par 5s as a 2nd shot stinger to get into position for an easy pitch in. 

I have similar yardage gaps to you and have experienced similar issues with that part of the set. 

 

IMO 4i is the hardest club to hit consistently and goes down to the 5i a bit.

 

As much as I wanted the 4i from the set to work with different shafts weight length etc. it was just too inconsistent that it was a liability in the bag. Which lead me to try other options which were a DI or a hybrid. 

 

I get your sentiments of a hybrid with its flight but give real ease of use and consistency but I couldnt get over its launch window and went with a DI. After tinkering with shafts I landed on using a lighter but fairly stout graphite shaft that gives me the launch window I like with the consistency I am after. I will probably never use a 4i from the iron set again after. I kinda follow suit with my 5i using a more forgiving head with a lighter stout graphite shaft and still have the ability to use it for those low punch recovery shots. 

[nvr3putt]

I had a set of Ping irons and struggled with the long irons. They felt lighter and a bit more whippier. I just couldn't figure them out.

So I sold them and bought a set of Titleist t100s. Good luck!

[Chrischo555]

you could experiment with hard stepping the 4 and 5, keeps the same profile as the other irons, just playing the longer irons a little stiffer which could help with weird deflections.

[PNW]

I had the same issue with DG 120 X100. This set is flighted and gets progressively a little softer in the handle in particular. You can see it with the step pattern on each shaft just below the handle. I love them 7-P but find 6 and 5 get a little loose for me unless I slow my tempo in transition. It wasn't a swing weight issue. The profile for the set just wasn't a perfect fit for me.

 

PX LS could be another option but they are also flighted and similar bend profile. They the LS 6.0 felt a just little lighter and softer than 120 X100 so maybe 6.5 would work. Standard PX 6.0 or even 5.5 might be worth trying as well depending on your weight preference. Most of these are hopefully available at a local fitter to try. 

[Klubster]

Maybe it is because when I started playing, those clubs were marked as 2 and 3 irons.  

[miami1023]

Hybrids are always the answer

[Stuart_G]

31 minutes ago, Klubster said:

Maybe it is because when I started playing, those clubs were marked as 2 and 3 irons.  

 

Loft jacking doesn't really do anything in this case.  Just because the loft has changed doesn't mean the head weight has changed - and it's the head weight that determines how the shaft will play, not the loft.

[JohnBrew]

Join the crowd (in not being able to hit 4 or 5 irons). That's the main reason for hybrids!

[ChipNRun]

10 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

Also, some people actually step up the effort in their swing for the longer irons.   Have you seen what your swing speed progression is through the set?

 

A local veteran golf pro now works as a clubfitter in semi-retirement. He discussed the above in his own shaft mix.

 

He's about 5-foot-8 and weighs about 150 lbs., and has a lot of lag in his swing. He has stiff shafts in driver, fairway wood, and 3 iron, and heavier R-flex shafts in all other clubs.

[mgoblue83]

Standard length?

 

A lot of people will be fit into longer shafts by only hitting a 7i and then when the full set arrives the long irons are too long to hit consistently.

 

Even properly fit the long irons are just going to be harder to hit consistently for almost all amateurs.

 

Try choking up a touch.

[jvincent]

On 3/25/2024 at 5:18 AM, Golf__Freak said:

The problem comes to the 4-5 irons. I feel the shaft is alot more whippy than the rest and i tend to lose the face, resulting in slices, and fat shots. The slices find the centre, but just have no control of the face. 

 

Golf is hard.

[petep5280]

I don't know what the lofts are on the long irons, but new irons have such strong lofts that a 4i is like an old school 2i. And how many people could actually game an old school 2i. 

[Stuart_G]

17 hours ago, JohnBrew said:

Join the crowd (in not being able to hit 4 or 5 irons). That's the main reason for hybrids!

 

53 minutes ago, mgoblue83 said:

Even properly fit the long irons are just going to be harder to hit consistently for almost all amateurs.

 

22 hours ago, Golf__Freak said:

 I havent had this issue until the new clubs.

 

Sure longer irons are harder to play and many am's might be playing longer irons than they should.  BUT this is not a problem that is generic to long irons in general for the OP.  So it's not an issue with loft or playing length.   In this case it's clearly a problem with how well the shaft fits the OP (and maybe swing weight)

 

6 minutes ago, jvincent said:

Golf is hard.

 

Very true.  But no reason to make it even harder by using poor fitting equipment.

 

[Golf__Freak]

On 3/25/2024 at 7:40 PM, PNW said:

I had the same issue with DG 120 X100. This set is flighted and gets progressively a little softer in the handle in particular. You can see it with the step pattern on each shaft just below the handle. I love them 7-P but find 6 and 5 get a little loose for me unless I slow my tempo in transition. It wasn't a swing weight issue. The profile for the set just wasn't a perfect fit for me.

 

PX LS could be another option but they are also flighted and similar bend profile. They the LS 6.0 felt a just little lighter and softer than 120 X100 so maybe 6.5 would work. Standard PX 6.0 or even 5.5 might be worth trying as well depending on your weight preference. Most of these are hopefully available at a local fitter to try. 

 

I may have to take a look at the Project X option. The LS is a stock shaft so would prefer to try that option first as it was fitted to me too (and a more expensive shaft than the DG120), so they will be swapped for free, and should i not enjoy them, i can buy the Project X (selling the LS to cover most costs) and if i dont like that i can return to the DG 120 which is about half the price of Project X here, so makes me moving back easier and cheaper. Ill then have to just tweak my swing slightly to hit the 4-5 irons better.
 

 

19 hours ago, mgoblue83 said:

Standard length?

 

A lot of people will be fit into longer shafts by only hitting a 7i and then when the full set arrives the long irons are too long to hit consistently.

 

Even properly fit the long irons are just going to be harder to hit consistently for almost all amateurs.

 

Try choking up a touch.

 

It is standard, although im on the taller side of the spectrum according to the ping chart (6 foot, dont remember wrist to floor).

I definitely think its a fitting issue. Its very noticable and as soon as I get to my 6 iron, the contact is flush and im back to solidly striking it. My long irons before felt stiffer, even though it was a S not X shaft, so i felt the control was better. 

Ill be seeing the fitter today and give an update. 

[Golf__Freak]

So i went past the fitter today, did swing weight check, total weight, shaft stiffness CPM and length check. All seems good. 

 

He asked me to hit a few shots with the 7,6,5,4 irons to take a look at the numbers off trackman and he came to a conclusion. Im my AoA is a bit steep with the 4/5 iron. 

 

My 7 iron was hitting down my 6 about 3.8, my 4 and 5 were at about 3.8 as well. 

 

He said because the shaft is stiffer and heavier, it doesnt deflect as much meaning im essentially making my 4 iron a 2 iron (including the deloting at impact). My older shafts were more forgiving cause the flex and weight gave time for the head to shallow out which gave me better contact. 

I have a lesson next week (bought a pack, and go weekly, they check swing on GC quad and video), and he told me to take a look at the long irons and try get the right swing on them considering im not used to the x stiff and heavier shaft. If im still struggling, he will take a look at other options, probably play with swing weight a little, but he was reluctant to do that cause the flight on good shots is in the right spin window and trajectory and he doesnt want to lower that and reduce spin. 

Im willing to give it a go, and with the lesson i will still have about 15 days on my exchange timeframe incase i want to swap shafts. 

 

[YAMS49]

This comment from you is interesting to me... 'My long irons before felt stiffer, even though it was a S not X shaft, so i felt the control was better'. 

 

CFS shafts are weight descending so your 4i shaft was heavier than your higher lofted sticks. Whilst 120 X100's are heavier than your CFS's they are constant weighted and as mentioned above they're flighted so they do feel slightly softer in the handle the lower they get. 

 

Maybe your missing the added weight in the longer irons that you had before (Over the rest of the set) & as a result your swinging harder and losing the contact consistency. Perhaps try adding 4-5g lead weight strips to the middle of your 4i & 5i DG shafts and see if that helps with feel/contact. 

Edited March 28 by YAMS49

[Jayjay_theweim_guy]

Just chiming in to point out the Ping Blueprint S specs: https://ping.com/en-us/clubs/irons/blueprint-s

 

22.5° 4-iron at 38.5" and 26° 5-iron at 38" don't seem that obnoxious.

 

The info on the flighted characteristics of these shafts, and the weighting, has been really informative to read, thank you.  Though reading this makes me realize I've some room to improve my driver, if 90 on a 6-iron can lead to 115 in the driver.

 

As I understand it, and perhaps you've actual data since you tried them, the PX LS is supposed to considerably change spin (and I thought launch too?) from DG 120 X100.  Plus, aren't they 5 grams heavier or so across the board?

 

 

[ShortGolfer]

I swing a 22* Mavrik Max 4I off the Tee and fairway as I play a short course with 13 yard wide fairways.  It has a super light 40g LL flex shaft, which is more flexible than ladies flex.

This is the club I most often use off the Tee, thoughI hope to change that in the future.

 

I was fitted into senior flex shafts for my Driver and 3HL.  My swing speed is really slow, so it was a surprise to the fitter that I could hit the 3HL just fine off the deck.

 

My iron shafts are ladies flex. Fitted for me to be able to hit and hold tiny greens from 100 yards in.  Last season I was working on ball striking with my irons.

Ended the season sorting through wedges.

Now I'm working on driver.

Edited April 2 by ShortGolfer

[PNW]

On 3/25/2024 at 10:40 AM, PNW said:

I had the same issue with DG 120 X100. This set is flighted and gets progressively a little softer in the handle in particular. You can see it with the step pattern on each shaft just below the handle. I love them 7-P but find 6 and 5 get a little loose for me unless I slow my tempo in transition. It wasn't a swing weight issue. The profile for the set just wasn't a perfect fit for me.

 

PX LS could be another option but they are also flighted and similar bend profile. They the LS 6.0 felt a just little lighter and softer than 120 X100 so maybe 6.5 would work. Standard PX 6.0 or even 5.5 might be worth trying as well depending on your weight preference. Most of these are hopefully available at a local fitter to try. 

Follow up to the above, I was able to hit PX LS 6.0 and DG 120 X100 side by side. I had similar trouble with DG 120 X100 where the long irons were too soft in the handle and lateral dispersion widened. Smash and front to back were always good. 

 

PX LS 6.0 is a similar design however it felt a little stiffer than 120 X100 in the handle. Feedback is a little more harsh than DG 120, as expected with the stepless design. DG feels plush in comparison. I'm probably going to try to do a longer demo on these myself, but would recommend OP trying LS 6.0 and/or 6.5 depending on weight preference. 

[edwelly]

I have no advice here, but wanted to say this has been a fascinating read. Thank you for posting your journey thus far, @Golf__Freak

 

-Erik

[animalgolfs]

If you're de-lofting - 9 wood is the answer IMO 

[charliebrown]

On 3/25/2024 at 1:22 PM, JohnBrew said:

Join the crowd (in not being able to hit 4 or 5 irons). That's the main reason for hybrids!

I've seen and been the player that tends to think they have to swing harder/faster with the long irons...which can result in a variety of bad shots. Sometimes it's a conscious thing, other times subconscious. When something is out of wack in my ball striking in the past, I've taken one lesson from a legitimate instructor to sort it out before looking at an equipment fix. Sometimes it's the Indian, not the arrow that's the problem.

[Golf__Freak]

So ive done my first lesson with the long irons and im definitely coming in a bit steeper with the long irons. my AoA with the 7/6/5/4 is 4 degrees down. Fine for the 6-7 but too steep for the 4/5. 

Ive made a small change to my swing that helps me get a bit more in to out with the longer clubs (was a bit neutral, shorter clubs are in to out), and has my AoA consistently at +-2. Ball striking is measurably better. 
 

i think the difference between the x stiff 120 X100 and the stiff CFS shaft highlighted my swing flaws. The softer CFS allowed me to get into a position that didnt deloft the club as much and due to years of use, i got used to my hands location at the strike point. With the stiffer shaft keeping up with me more, i got an incosistent low point and struggled with the launch. 

 

With the change, im now hitting the 4 iron higher than ive ever hit one before and getting a more consistent strike. Distance went up too so can swing a bit easier. 

 

ill be doing another lesson to tweak everything but im defintiely happy with the results, and swinging harder to eek some extra distance in this case doesnt feel like the club is lost. 

 

So i think im quite happy with the fit of the 120 X100. I just had to relearn how to deliver the club with the shafts that are a bit stronger.