Pressure plate mapping footloose

[Deadaimz]

Pressure mapping is used a ton in today's instruction. I'm curious what Scottie Schefler mapping looks like. Is he ideal(within avg) or and out lier? Is there anything we can learn from his foot work?

[GungHoGolf]

1 hour ago, Deadaimz said:

Pressure mapping is used a ton in today's instruction. I'm curious what Scottie Schefler mapping looks like. Is he ideal(within avg) or and out lier? Is there anything we can learn from his foot work?

 

 

Gotta consider all three components of GRFs.

 

My guess: he’s an outlier in horizontal (over), well above average in torque, and about average in vertical.

[golferdude54]

Over-pronated left ankle with all of his weight on it at the finish. Over time his peroneus muscles are going to eventually tear/rupture before he's 40 if he doesn't change it.

[Deadaimz]

 

 

I found this where he explains his move. 

Edited April 1 by Deadaimz
Wrong video

[GoGoErky]

3 hours ago, golferdude54 said:

Over-pronated left ankle with all of his weight on it at the finish. Over time his peroneus muscles are going to eventually tear/rupture before he's 40 if he doesn't change it.

Based on what data, studies, etc?

[cav5]

4 hours ago, golferdude54 said:

Over-pronated left ankle with all of his weight on it at the finish. Over time his peroneus muscles are going to eventually tear/rupture before he's 40 if he doesn't change it.

 

This is a good take imo and no way he can change it and still be as good. I think he can go past 40 with it with modern meds, IGF and peptides tho. Ideally I don't like to see the feet outside the shoulders. Keeps pivot rotation purer to me without vertical grf.

[GoGoErky]

18 minutes ago, cav5 said:

 

This is a good take imo and no way he can change it and still be as good. I think he can go past 40 with it with modern meds, IGF and peptides tho. Ideally I don't like to see the feet outside the shoulders. Keeps pivot rotation purer to me without vertical grf.

Same question. Based on what information is what scotty does going to cause him to get hurt, rupture anything in his foot/heel? Worked out ok for Greg Norman and plenty of others 

 

provide sources for the information.

 

what part of the foot out side the shoulder? The instep or the outside of the foot? 
 

what does purer rotation to and how is that better than using grf when every good golfer is using grf.  Just like the medical stuff above provide data and sources 
 

You can’t not use grf when you are literally standing on the ground. Some may just not use them properly but everyone is using get.

Edited April 1 by GoGoErky

[Deadaimz]

Am I missing something? I haven't done my research but does Scottie suffer from regular injury?  Seems like week in week out he is there and performing with no issues.

Edited April 2 by Deadaimz
Spelling

[GoGoErky]

1 hour ago, Deadaimz said:

Am I kissing something? I haven't dome my research but does scottie suffer from regular injury?  Seems like week in week out he is there and performing with no issues.

No and none of the golfers who have similar movements and have end up in the position Scotty does didn’t injure their foot, blowout an Achilles and so on

[golferdude54]

6 hours ago, GoGoErky said:

Same question. Based on what information is what scotty does going to cause him to get hurt, rupture anything in his foot/heel? Worked out ok for Greg Norman and plenty of others 

 

Norman didn't pronate his ankle nearly as much as Scottie, he used his left heel as a pivot and would spin the toe out from the forces of his swing (ankle eversion) and show any competent sports podiatrist/physical therapist Scottie's action and they would say the exact same thing.

 

The only reason a lot of players as you said in the post above haven't injured their foot with the same action yet is because all of them aren't even past 40 yet. Trust me, the GRF ballerina footwork generation are going to be just as bad as Tiger's injuries when they age and they won't even be able to compete on the Champions Tour.

Edited April 1 by golferdude54

[Simpsonia]

15 hours ago, GungHoGolf said:

 

 

Gotta consider all three components of GRFs.

 

My guess: he’s an outlier in horizontal (over), well above average in torque, and about average in vertical.

 

Scottie's SwingCat/pressure trace is definitely the one I want to see most. Though, I wouldn't be surprised to see below average torque. At least as I understand it, since he gets pretty much 100% pressure on the lead leg very early, that wouldn't leave much, if anything at all, for the right/trail side of the torque equation, no? 

[GungHoGolf]

14 minutes ago, Simpsonia said:

 

Scottie's SwingCat/pressure trace is definitely the one I want to see most. Though, I wouldn't be surprised to see below average torque. At least as I understand it, since he gets pretty much 100% pressure on the lead leg very early, that wouldn't leave much, if anything at all, for the right/trail side of the torque equation, no? 

His forward and backward foot slippage (from his viewpoint) and foot turning indicates pretty significant torque I think. 

[cav5]

18 minutes ago, golferdude54 said:

 

Norman didn't pronate his ankle nearly as much as Scottie, he used his left heel as a pivot and would spin the toe out from the forces of his swing (ankle eversion) and show any competent sports podiatrist/physical therapist Scottie's action and they would say the exact same thing.

 

The only reason a lot of players as you said in the post above haven't injured their foot with the same action yet is because all of them aren't even past 40 yet. Trust me, the GRF ballerina footwork generation are going to be just as bad as Tiger's injuries when they age and they won't even be able to compete on the Champions Tour.

 

Trust the science bro lol.

 

Agreed, hes got a decade plus to hurt it. Not even in the same realm as Norman's move.

 

Anymore vertical GRF than is initially established is compensation and can lead to injury with age.

 

Its the instagram way to sync body and arms these days because the way its taught you simply can't get enough speed without it. The more you keep the the pivot seperate from the hands the faster and cleaner you can go.

[GoGoErky]

24 minutes ago, golferdude54 said:

 

Norman didn't pronate his ankle nearly as much as Scottie, he used his left heel as a pivot and would spin the toe out from the forces of his swing (ankle eversion) and show any competent sports podiatrist/physical therapist Scottie's action and they would say the exact same thing.

 

The only reason a lot of players as you said in the post above haven't injured their foot with the same action yet is because all of them aren't even past 40 yet. Trust me, the GRF ballerina footwork generation are going to be just as bad as Tiger's injuries when they age and they won't even be able to compete on the Champions Tour.

What medical studies do you have to support this claim. Also we know from Tiger that his style of training and the abuse he put his body through played more of a role in his injuries than his swing did.

 

Rory has playing for a long time and uses the ground probably as good as anyone and yet he has not had any injuries. Every golfer uses grf, some better than others and it’s the golfers who use it incorrectly and have improper sequencing and too much side bend that are hurt more than the ones who do things alot better. The guys with swings like zalatoris, Niemann and others with the big side bend will be hurt long before Scotty. The guys like day who restricted hip turn will be hurt before Scotty. The best thing day did was change his swing

[iacas]

27 minutes ago, golferdude54 said:

show any competent sports podiatrist/physical therapist Scottie's action and they would say the exact same thing.

 

I took you up on that, as I teach one of the best within a few hours drive. Let's just say he disagreed with your assessment. Vehemently.

 

27 minutes ago, golferdude54 said:

The only reason a lot of players as you said in the post above haven't injured their foot with the same action yet is because all of them aren't even past 40 yet. Trust me, the GRF ballerina footwork generation are going to be just as bad as Tiger's injuries when they age and they won't even be able to compete on the Champions Tour.

 

Oh boy.

 

Tiger ≠ Scottie. And a lot of the guys are making more money now, working harder now, stressing their bodies more now, and probably aren't looking to play on the Champions Tour.

 

Also, I'm sure that in ten to fifteen years… none of us will remember this post to come back here and proclaim how wrong (or right) you were. And in either case, right or wrong… it's a sample size of one. Anything could happen. He could step on a tree root funny and damage his ankle, or retire because he's won enough and made enough money and doesn't want to be away from his kids half the year, or who knows what…?

[GoGoErky]

4 minutes ago, cav5 said:

 

Trust the science bro lol.

 

Agreed, hes got a decade plus to hurt it. Not even in the same realm as Norman's move.

 

Anymore vertical GRF than is initially established is compensation and can lead to injury with age.

 

Its the instagram way to sync body and arms these days because the way its taught you simply can't get enough speed without it. The more you keep the the pivot seperate from the hands the faster and cleaner you can go.

Please provide the data and the studies and sources for these claims. 

[cav5]

I don't care to help you understand. I'd have to explain too much

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, cav5 said:

I don't care to help you understand. I'd have to explain too much

 

Translated: "I don't know what I'm talking about and can't back up anything I have to say. And it's too much effort for me to say a bunch of mumbo jumbo that sounds mystical enough I will trick a few people into thinking I know what I'm talking about."

[delfam]

he is a center post golfer, and his upper body actually gets in front of his lower body at the top of the backswing. almost stack and tilt, but not.This causes him to be steep in the dowswing, and he needs a lot of vertical force to push his upper body behind is lower body. This vertical force is his way of shallowing the club .

[GoGoErky]

10 minutes ago, cav5 said:

I don't care to help you understand. I'd have to explain too much

You can’t explain and have no data to support anything you claim so you just keep posting thoughts and opinions that aren’t based in any reality or any science.

 

If you had amy actual real world experience or data you would post it. If you actually understood what you post you would be able to explain it for everyone to understand and no you don’t have some magic knowledge that every teaching professional lacks. 

 

Edited April 1 by GoGoErky

[golferdude54]

20 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

Rory has playing for a long time and uses the ground probably as good as anyone and yet he has not had any injuries. 

 

You bring up the player with literally the most controlled and quietest left foot with the driver on tour, have you even seen how little Rory moves his left foot? 

[vman]

Just some educated guesswork going on here. I mean the potential for injury is prevalent in ALL professional golfers as they age.

Edited April 1 by vman

[GoGoErky]

Just now, golferdude54 said:

 

You bring up the player with literally the most controlled and quietest left foot with the driver on tour, have you even seen how little Rory moves his left foot? 

All good golfer use the ground a lot. I could have left Rory or any golfer out because I don’t have to prove that they won’t get hurt whereas the claim Scotty swing and others who use grf will get hurt has to be proved. So I’ll wait for the data and studies that show Scotty and these other grf ballerinas are going to be hurt

[Albatross Dreamer]

Just now, GoGoErky said:

All good golfer use the ground a lot. I could have left Rory or any golfer out because I don’t have to prove that they won’t get hurt whereas the claim Scotty swing and others who use grf will get hurt has to be proved. So I’ll wait for the data and studies that show Scotty and these other grf ballerinas are going to be hurt

I don't believe that's what at least one of them is saying. Using grf actually helps reduce strain on the body. The peroneal tendon runs on the outside of the foot/ankle. Due to the way Scottie everts his foot, particularly on his "wilder" swings, it puts more stress on that area of the body then for most golfers. Will he get injured? Who knows. Does it likely increase odds of injury to that area? Yes.

[GoGoErky]

Just now, Albatross Dreamer said:

I don't believe that's what at least one of them is saying. Using grf actually helps reduce strain on the body. The peroneal tendon runs on the outside of the foot/ankle. Due to the way Scottie everts his foot, particularly on his "wilder" swings, it puts more stress on that area of the body then for most golfers. Will he get injured? Who knows. Does it likely increase odds of injury to that area? Yes.

Based on what medical day that days moving a foot this way or using pressure in this manner causes an Achilles injury or any other injury to the foot, ankle, lower leg or any other. And data that says this is more likely than if he did X instead. There isn’t any to support it. It’s all hypothetical based on opinion me for some lack of any understanding of the golf swing and grf

[MonteScheinblum]

10 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

Based on what medical day that days moving a foot this way or using pressure in this manner causes an Achilles injury or any other injury to the foot, ankle, lower leg or any other. And data that says this is more likely than if he did X instead. There isn’t any to support it. It’s all hypothetical based on opinion me for some lack of any understanding of the golf swing and grf

I’ve imitated his move.  Doesn’t seem to put any big stress on my body.

Edited April 1 by MonteScheinblum

[Albatross Dreamer]

Just now, GoGoErky said:

Based on what medical day that days moving a foot this way or using pressure in this manner causes an Achilles injury or any other injury to the foot, ankle, lower leg or any other. And data that says this is more likely than if he did X instead. There isn’t any to support it. It’s all hypothetical based on opinion me for some lack of any understanding of the golf swing and grf

The entire field of anatomy and biomechanics. I could have told you that Zalatoris and Day were at higher risk of back injuries without seeing any medical data. It's simply how the body works. Put more stress on an area outside it's "normal" motions and it's more likely to break. In sports medicine we can't sit around waiting for medical data to say "maybe we should take a look at this" or seeing that it has higher potential for injury. So the entire field is hypothetical in some ways, but based on educated guesses. Which research sometimes help explain later.

[Simpsonia]

1 hour ago, GungHoGolf said:

His forward and backward foot slippage (from his viewpoint) and foot turning indicates pretty significant torque I think. 

 

Yeah I don't know exactly how SwingCat measures torque, if it's measuring some delta between the lead and trail lateral (toward and away from the ball) forces or just adding the cumulative forces from each leg. My initial thought was that since he does get 100% (or close to it) of his pressure on that lead leg so quickly, there's essentially no measurable GRF for his trail leg at all, since no pressure = no ground to grip, no GRF, resulting in the trail foot slide. If he retained some trail side pressure we'd see the torque as his trail leg pushes against the ground instead of wasting it slipping and sliding (that's not a ding on him, he clearly does better than any of us, just that the torque is wasted energy without anything to push against). My thought was that we'd see high horizontal, high vertical, but below average, or even next to no torque at all. At least that's from my layman's understanding of the three main GRF forces. 

[GoGoErky]

54 minutes ago, Albatross Dreamer said:

The entire field of anatomy and biomechanics. I could have told you that Zalatoris and Day were at higher risk of back injuries without seeing any medical data. It's simply how the body works. Put more stress on an area outside it's "normal" motions and it's more likely to break. In sports medicine we can't sit around waiting for medical data to say "maybe we should take a look at this" or seeing that it has higher potential for injury. So the entire field is hypothetical in some ways, but based on educated guesses. Which research sometimes help explain later.

In the golds swing know what’s good and what’s bad so yes we can say that day and zalatoris are going to be hurt. When we look at the move Scotty makes and to an extent many of the great ball strikers on yesteryear with similar use of the ground and foot movement we don’t see any injuries. The amount of balls Scotty has hit with the same movement is very high over his golfing life. If there were any sign of his swing causing issues we would have seen signs of it.

 

Because what he’s doing is a little unique people want to opine on it and the dangers of it without any medical background, any data to support it being a bad movement in general. Unlike having the data that a restricted hip turn along with actual injuries that can support saying anyone doing that is going to have an issue.

 

 

 

 

[Albatross Dreamer]

1 hour ago, GoGoErky said:

In the golds swing know what’s good and what’s bad so yes we can say that day and zalatoris are going to be hurt. When we look at the move Scotty makes and to an extent many of the great ball strikers on yesteryear with similar use of the ground and foot movement we don’t see any injuries. The amount of balls Scotty has hit with the same movement is very high over his golfing life. If there were any sign of his swing causing issues we would have seen signs of it.

 

Because what he’s doing is a little unique people want to opine on it and the dangers of it without any medical background, any data to support it being a bad movement in general. Unlike having the data that a restricted hip turn along with actual injuries that can support saying anyone doing that is going to have an issue.

 

 

 

 

I'm not talking about how he uses the ground, I'm talking about the position in the picture below. To me that falls outside of what most of them do, especially considering he often leaves the ground and is imparting force in the direction his ankle is bending. If he was just twisting onto the heel like many golfers have it wouldn't be much of a concern

 

It's false that we would have necessarily seen issues by now. Those that work in the sports world see all kinds of crazy stuff where it's amazing the athlete haven't had an injury yet. And I'm not opining because it's different, though there's often a reason more people aren't doing it.  You can assume whatever you want about my background, I was just trying to explain why it could be an issue. I have no attachment to the issue so carry on.

 

Edited April 2 by Albatross Dreamer