Ball Nerds? Anyone want to indulge me?

[Exactice808]

Hey Gang, Wow its been a bit since I posted,  need to nerd out a bit if anyone wants to entertain me.

 

Long story short, Mevo+ switched to GC3 and the data got real clear real fast....

 

What to do with the data based on ball selection.

 

Never was a big premium ball player (Cheapsake)  But practiced with the RCT balls for the Mevo+ to get data, But played with cheaper balls in general. (didnt see too much BS affect based on distance)  Now with the GC3 I can use any ball and the data really speaks volume. 

 

bought too many Ksigs, but was not a fan "Felt" (feel is key right now) they spun more than Prov1s

 

Loved cheaper balls, Callaway Hex Soft, and found a deal at Sams for Callaway supersoft, but been blasting these over greens for the last 3 rounds.  dont have problem with spin, but noticed these go further.

 

Put them on the GC3 and couple huge factors came out.

 

7iron -Example (Generally I would say 155-160carry and 160-165 total is safe for me)

 

 

1) Supersoft, with the same swing gives me a good 2-4mph of additional ball speed,  Give me 165-170 nukes out of no where, which is also frustrating hitting into a 160 green and goes 10 yards over.

2) Supersoft, spin is about 2000rpm lower,  (5,000 to high 5,900rpms) which adds up to the random 170y shots, higher ballspeed and some low spin shots. Dont have a problem holding greens as the LA is fine, just goes further than expected.

 

 

Compared to a the Prov1s and Ksigs,  the ball speeds are about the same,  2-4mph slower than the super soft,  The Ksig is generally 1000rpms greater than the Prov1's (which didnt surprise me, but finally validated my "feelings".  
Prov1 spin, 6000rpms -6500rpms, Ksigs, well in the 7,000-7500rpms (7iron), of course the excess spin keeps the Ksig about 1-2y shorter than the Provs

 

 

Launch angles are all the same or similar.

 

 

So questions for the Ball nerds.  Help me understand the compression and how a cheapr ball is generating more ball speed and less spin.  People chasing distnace could gain some valuable points from the supersoft, gaining greater balls speed with the same swing speed and the MUCH lower spin as 2000rpms is quite a bit for an iron.

 

 

Going forward, how to I actually use this knoweldge to select a ball? does it have to do with the multi piece factor, casing type, just luck?  The Ksig is a copy of the ProV, but its spins 1000rpms more which I dont like... what cause the same ball speed but more spin on the Ksig?

 

Appreciate the knowledge drop as I am curious now that I have something consistent to measure.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

 

[Pepperturbo]

4 minutes ago, Exactice808 said:

Going forward, how to I actually use this knoweldge to select a ball? does it have to do with the multi piece factor, casing type, just luck?  The Ksig is a copy of the ProV, but its spins 1000rpms more which I dont like... what cause the same ball speed but more spin on the Ksig?

If a ball spins too much, it's not for you.  

 

Guessing, SS is tied to ball speed, but ball composition and how you hit the ball, is behind spin.  A while back, I tried out a few Ksig, was not impressed, far too much spin.  Gave them to a buddy who likes them.

[Exactice808]

27 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

If a ball spins too much, it's not for you.  

 

Guessing, SS is tied to ball speed, but ball composition and how you hit the ball, is behind spin.  A while back, I tried out a few Ksig, was not impressed, far too much spin.  Gave them to a buddy who likes them.

Yups Totally agreed. Its funny I could tell on the course Ksigs spun,  just didnt know the value till I put the balls through the ringer on the GC3 (impressive if you ask me)

Thats the thing, how I hit (smash/compression) is the same, yet the result are different. So the only thing at play is the ball.  What causes this "ball" wise?

 

My shock again though was the 1 club/10y dispersion with the Prov1 vs Supersoft..... I can feel it "Soft" but does soft means farther (which seems silly?)  Trying to get to the nitty gritty on what causes the bump in ballspeed as well as the large drop in spin, with the same swing speed.  

 

This affected my short game distances as well, based on spin and distance, so kinda messed with my whole gapping on course. Its nice to hit it seemingly father, just not used to it at this point. 

 

And again, surprised a 2 pack from Sams is $30bucks, when Prov's are $50+ for 12 balls.

 

 

 

[sheppick.dan]

2 hours ago, Exactice808 said:

Yups Totally agreed. Its funny I could tell on the course Ksigs spun,  just didnt know the value till I put the balls through the ringer on the GC3 (impressive if you ask me)

Thats the thing, how I hit (smash/compression) is the same, yet the result are different. So the only thing at play is the ball.  What causes this "ball" wise?

 

My shock again though was the 1 club/10y dispersion with the Prov1 vs Supersoft..... I can feel it "Soft" but does soft means farther (which seems silly?)  Trying to get to the nitty gritty on what causes the bump in ballspeed as well as the large drop in spin, with the same swing speed.  

 

This affected my short game distances as well, based on spin and distance, so kinda messed with my whole gapping on course. Its nice to hit it seemingly father, just not used to it at this point. 

 

And again, surprised a 2 pack from Sams is $30bucks, when Prov's are $50+ for 12 balls.

 

 

 

I think maybe the softer feeling ball you are compressing better. What’s the diff in the smash factor when hitting?

 

swing speed the same?

 

for me on the mevo+ I got better distance and spin out of the new CT ball then I did the CTX (which is supposed to spin more). 

[Exactice808]

14 hours ago, sheppick.dan said:

I think maybe the softer feeling ball you are compressing better. What’s the diff in the smash factor when hitting?

 

swing speed the same?

 

for me on the mevo+ I got better distance and spin out of the new CT ball then I did the CTX (which is supposed to spin more). 

 

I want to test this "theory" if soft has anything to do with it.

 

With that i had a long reply earlier, but decided not to, you asked, it here we go LOL!

 

So I use the Trackman PGA Tour stats for "Smash" for references. I wont get the same speeds, but the quality of strike is a good indication.

 

PGA Tour Smash

 

PW- 1.23

8iron - 1.32

 

Mevo+

Exactice Smash - Prov1 RCT balls -(Averaged data) 6shot average

 

PW- 1.20   - 81.3 CHS,  97.2mph BS -7500rpms - 123y avg Carry

8iron - 1.30  86.6 CHS, 112mph BS - 6500rpms - 152y avg Carry

 

GC3 - 

Exactice Smash - Supersoft Balls - (Averaged data) 6shot average

 

PW - 1.22  - 81.3 CHS, 99.2 BS - 6500rpms, 130y carry

8ron - 1.32 -86.6 CHS, 114mph BS - 5500 rpms 159 avg Carry

 

 

Now granted we may say that its different systems (Mevo+ vs GC3) but the GC3 shots are indicicative on the course (with the supersoft, example, PW 125y shot to pin, with my normal anticpated 123y carry,  then I smoke it 130y over the green)

 

The Mevo+  I have been using for 3 years and those RCT numbers are spot on for me.

 

I did use Prov1 & Ksigs on the GC3 to make sure It wasnt a system thing, and they were close to the Mevo+ numbers with RCTs  so again the numbers jive,

 

 

To be clear this is not a distance question, I am wanting to know the make up or science or whatever of the ball that gives it more ball speed and less spin with essentialy the same "swing"

 

But the Drop in Spin, and increase in ball speeds are surprising with the same launch data.   

 

Is it casing, is it the piece structure, is it the compression of the ball etc?

 

 

thoughts! 

 

Again truly thank you for entertaining this nerd... "something about engines...calms me down" - Fast & The Furious -  LOL 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 19 by Exactice808

[Pepperturbo]

17 hours ago, Exactice808 said:

Yups Totally agreed. Its funny I could tell on the course Ksigs spun,  just didnt know the value till I put the balls through the ringer on the GC3 (impressive if you ask me)

Thats the thing, how I hit (smash/compression) is the same, yet the result are different. So the only thing at play is the ball.  What causes this "ball" wise?

 

My shock again though was the 1 club/10y dispersion with the Prov1 vs Supersoft..... I can feel it "Soft" but does soft means farther (which seems silly?)  Trying to get to the nitty gritty on what causes the bump in ballspeed as well as the large drop in spin, with the same swing speed.  

 

This affected my short game distances as well, based on spin and distance, so kinda messed with my whole gapping on course. Its nice to hit it seemingly father, just not used to it at this point. 

 

And again, surprised a 2 pack from Sams is $30bucks, when Prov's are $50+ for 12 balls.

 

 

 

I am a feel golfer, which means good and not so.  When a ball feels soft at impact, like with Supersoft, at impact it feels like the ball won't give me max distance off the face at my swing speed.  Ball composition makes all the difference for me, and we pay for performance. 

 

I am not sure if you'll ever discover the exact cause for the difference or able to swallow the cost of composition and performance.

 

Outside temp is another factor for me.  If it's cooler/cold out, windy and/or drizzly, I use AVX.  If it's warm out, new AVX feels like it compresses too much, worsening distance.  I gave a new AVX to my wife, she hit it great and likes it.

 

I was in the Desert recently, it was 50' one day, blustery and drizzling, AVX works nicely.  Two days later it was high 80s, and AVX felt like I was compressing the ball too much (probably not really), but I am a feel player.   The reason why I play DASH -ProV1x most of the time; it's hard, but I am used to it.  At impact that ball feels like I get the best of the ball.  When I go after a driver, DASH is longer than ProV1x and AVX and ProV1.

[Exactice808]

50 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

I am a feel golfer, which means good and not so.  When a ball feels soft at impact, like with Supersoft, at impact it feels like the ball won't give me max distance off the face at my swing speed.  Ball composition makes all the difference for me, and we pay for performance. 

 

I am not sure if you'll ever discover the exact cause for the difference or able to swallow the cost of composition and performance.

 

Outside temp is another factor for me.  If it's cooler/cold out, windy and/or drizzly, I use AVX.  If it's warm out, new AVX feels like it compresses too much, worsening distance.  I gave a new AVX to my wife, she hit it great and likes it.

 

I was in the Desert recently, it was 50' one day, blustery and drizzling, AVX works nicely.  Two days later it was high 80s, and AVX felt like I was compressing the ball too much (probably not really), but I am a feel player.   The reason why I play DASH -ProV1x most of the time; it's hard, but I am used to it.  At impact that ball feels like I get the best of the ball.  When I go after a driver, DASH is longer than ProV1x and AVX and ProV1.

So I am dead head no feeling weirdo, buddy of many can pick a club and tell the difference between 2 swing weight points...its crazy (seriously tested him and he was like 90% accurate)..... a sledge and a club feels the same to me HAHA

 

I am very mechnical.  so I have a 3-9 swing, that I am very repetative, that gives me almost perfect distances through my bag. (Cant feel it) but mechincally I can execute it.

 

So when I can "feel" that much of a differnece between say a Taylormade "Distance+" ball thats clicky as a bunch of gossip girls,  vs these Callaways... that are like marshmellows its significant.

 

With that, I also "thought" these soft balls dont "feel hot" off the face, it litterally feels like marshmellows that dont go no where, but they actually do go and far.  ProV's "feel hotter off the face" I feel the hard casing, but the compression is good. The Callways just feel mushy, but they go further. Blows my mind and backed up by the sim.

 

going to mess around with some other random balls.  but now Googling the sturctures of the balls to learn a little more.

 

But honestly they all say "distance" ....which some really arent.... or dont work well for me that is. 

Edited April 19 by Exactice808

[Pepperturbo]

2 minutes ago, Exactice808 said:

So I am dead head no feeling weirdo, buddy of many can pick a club and tell the difference between 2 swing weight points...its crazy (seriously tested him and he was like 90% accurate)..... a sledge and a club feels the same to me HAHA

 

I am very mechnical.  so I have a 3-9 swing, that I am very repetative, that gives me almost perfect distances through my bag. (Cant feel it) but mechincally I can execute it.

 

So when I can "feel" that much of a differnece between say a Taylormade "Distance+" ball thats clicky as bunch of gossip girls,  vs these Callaways... thats are like marshmellows its significant.

 

With that, I also "thought" these soft balls dont "feel hot" off the face, it litterally feels like marshmellows that dont go no where, but they actually do go and far.  ProV's "feel hotter off the face" I feel the hard casing, but the compression is good. The Callways just feel mushy, but they go further. Blows my mind and backed up by the sim.

 

going to mess around with some other random balls.  but now kind Googling the sturctures of the balls.

 

But honestly they all say "distance" ....which some really arent.... or dont work well for me that is. 

LOL  One of my youthful talents was 600 meter shooting.  Recently, went to the range with a friend.  I hadn't shot in a few years.  He set target at 35yds, I picked up my .45 and put 7 in the 1" center, one in secondary ring.  We both laughed, he asked me how I did that, all I could say look point and shoot, all feel and instinct.

 

I call myself a hitter cause I see the ball and hit it, as hard as I can to my target.  Kind of how I shoot.  Sounds like your SS is more than mine.  If mushy goes further, maybe that's an answer you should hear.  🙂

 

[Exactice808]

2 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

LOL  One of my youthful talents was 600 meter shooting.  Recently, went to the range with a friend.  I hadn't shot in a few years.  He set target at 35yds, I picked up my .45 and put 7 in the 1" center, one in secondary ring.  We both laughed, he asked me how I did that, all I could say look point and shoot, all feel and instinct.

 

I call myself a hitter cause I see the ball and hit it, as hard as I can to my target.  Kind of how I shoot.  Sounds like your SS is more than mine.  If mushy goes further, maybe that's an answer you should hear.  🙂

 

Pepper, I know we have chatted alot over the years on GolfWRX.... so if you are ever bored you can check our conv history LOL...Yes, same with myself, in a past life, I was part of a PSD Team (Protective Service Detail) I was the teams "Overwatch".

This is also why I am massively data driven, I have books of ballistic tables, range cards, for loads over the years. I still go out to "that" range every so often, but again I have data books that match the loads I go out with. So my brain thinks of such detail. Even when I take X golf ball on the course. I will be mindful of such data, that I collect.

 

Same thing basically applies to golf, I have spread sheets of data for my shots over the years, and I recently got the GC3 (2 weeeks old) and was blown away by the ability to change balls and get solid data.  Again Mevo+ is stuck using RCT's or sticking silver dots on gamer balls, but its a bit of a pain aligning the dots and this and that.  GC3 just drop and hit (way more convenient)

 

 

The easy answer is yups, play around with mush balls and see what happens.... but I can say some mush balls go no where as well.... Percept/Slazengers that I get free from some golf tournaments, they are mushy and go no where HAHA!

 

[Pepperturbo]

47 minutes ago, Exactice808 said:

Pepper, I know we have chatted alot over the years on GolfWRX.... so if you are ever bored you can check our conv history LOL...Yes, same with myself, in a past life, I was part of a PSD Team (Protective Service Detail) I was the teams "Overwatch".

This is also why I am massively data driven, I have books of ballistic tables, range cards, for loads over the years. I still go out to "that" range every so often, but again I have data books that match the loads I go out with. So my brain thinks of such detail. Even when I take X golf ball on the course. I will be mindful of such data, that I collect.

 

Same thing basically applies to golf, I have spread sheets of data for my shots over the years, and I recently got the GC3 (2 weeeks old) and was blown away by the ability to change balls and get solid data.  Again Mevo+ is stuck using RCT's or sticking silver dots on gamer balls, but its a bit of a pain aligning the dots and this and that.  GC3 just drop and hit (way more convenient)

 

 

The easy answer is yups, play around with mush balls and see what happens.... but I can say some mush balls go no where as well.... Percept/Slazengers that I get free from some golf tournaments, they are mushy and go no where HAHA!

 

👍

 

I recall a few chats, and did the same and more, back in the day.  I don't recall where my tables are, maybe in THE case... 😛  that I haven't opened in years.  I suppose all the years looking at a myriad of company spreadsheets spoiled me on any golf data charts. ☹

 

Good luck on your challenge.

[Jim53]

Pepper we don't have much in common I doubt, but I have been a .45 shooter for many years and my son (who is now 30) starting shooting a .45 at 14 years old after taking some advanced tactical shooting classes  as the youngest ever allowed. He is now a LEO and still takes the Kimber Stainless 45 out now and then and can draw and zero a 3 point drill in under 3 seconds.

That Kimber I bought him new and it has over 25,000 rounds down range and in competitions, still shoots like a dream in the right hands. I shoot a custom Nighthawk Talon and even though I rarely practice anymore from 15-20 yards 7 of 9 will be in the center or very close. 

 

People nowadays just don't use the  1911 as a rule (due to round count) but it is still the most accurate and deadly weapon available. Why have 15 rounds when one will do?

[sheppick.dan]

2 hours ago, Exactice808 said:

 

I want to test this "theory" if soft has anything to do with it.

 

With that i had a long reply earlier, but decided not to, you asked, it here we go LOL!

 

So I use the Trackman PGA Tour stats for "Smash" for references. I wont get the same speeds, but the quality of strike is a good indication.

 

PGA Tour Smash

 

PW- 1.23

8iron - 1.32

 

Mevo+

Exactice Smash - Prov1 RCT balls -(Averaged data) 6shot average

 

PW- 1.20   - 81.3 CHS,  97.2mph BS -7500rpms - 123y avg Carry

8iron - 1.30  86.6 CHS, 112mph BS - 6500rpms - 152y avg Carry

 

GC3 - 

Exactice Smash - Supersoft Balls - (Averaged data) 6shot average

 

PW - 1.22  - 81.3 CHS, 99.2 BS - 6500rpms, 130y carry

8ron - 1.32 -86.6 CHS, 114mph BS - 5500 rpms 159 avg Carry

 

 

Now granted we may say that its different systems (Mevo+ vs GC3) but the GC3 shots are indicicative on the course (with the supersoft, example, PW 125y shot to pin, with my normal anticpated 123y carry,  then I smoke it 130y over the green)

 

The Mevo+  I have been using for 3 years and those RCT numbers are spot on for me.

 

I did use Prov1 & Ksigs on the GC3 to make sure It wasnt a system thing, and they were close to the Mevo+ numbers with RCTs  so again the numbers jive,

 

 

To be clear this is not a distance question, I am wanting to know the make up or science or whatever of the ball that gives it more ball speed and less spin with essentialy the same "swing"

 

But the Drop in Spin, and increase in ball speeds are surprising with the same launch data.   

 

Is it casing, is it the piece structure, is it the compression of the ball etc?

 

 

thoughts! 

 

Again truly thank you for entertaining this nerd... "something about engines...calms me down" - Fast & The Furious -  LOL 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe I am tired and it went over my head....

 

What was the smash with the Ksig and what was smash of ProV1 seperately.

 

I don't really compare systems to other systems, that to me is apples to oragnes. I am sure that my Mevo +  is not as accurate as a GC3 but since all of my testings were in the same spot with the same piece of equipment I felt it was pretty accurate and felt that was the closest apples to apples. I am a nerd too when it comes to this. Here is a snip of my spreadsheet, I have done this for all my clubs!

 

 

 

 

For instance in my testing with my 6 iron:

2023 Prov 1X: 

Carry: 182, swing 100, Ball Speed: 125, Smash: 1.25

 

2024 Chrome Tour X: 

Carry: 195, swing: 102, ball speed: 134, smash: 1.31

 

2024 Bridgestone Tour B X:

Carry: 191, swing: 102, ball speed: 132, smash: 1.29

 

2024 Bridgestone Tour B XS:

Carry: 183.9 swing: 98, ball speed: 129, smash: 1.31

 

2024 Tp5x:

Carry: 197, swing: 101, ball speed: 132, smash: 1.30

 

2024 Chrome Tour:

Carry: 198, swing: 100, ball speed: 133, smash: 1.33

 

Now I picked the CT as my ball. You can see that my smash was way higher. I don't feel like I swing any better with that ball. Swing speeds are all around the same speed.

 

Hardest to softest for me were:

Prov 1x

CTX

TP5X

Bridgestone Tour B X

CT

Bridgestone Tour B XS

[Exactice808]

1 hour ago, sheppick.dan said:

Maybe I am tired and it went over my head....

 

What was the smash with the Ksig and what was smash of ProV1 seperately.

 

I don't really compare systems to other systems, that to me is apples to oragnes. I am sure that my Mevo +  is not as accurate as a GC3 but since all of my testings were in the same spot with the same piece of equipment I felt it was pretty accurate and felt that was the closest apples to apples. I am a nerd too when it comes to this. Here is a snip of my spreadsheet, I have done this for all my clubs!

 

 

 

 

For instance in my testing with my 6 iron:

2023 Prov 1X: 

Carry: 182, swing 100, Ball Speed: 125, Smash: 1.25

 

2024 Chrome Tour X: 

Carry: 195, swing: 102, ball speed: 134, smash: 1.31

 

2024 Bridgestone Tour B X:

Carry: 191, swing: 102, ball speed: 132, smash: 1.29

 

2024 Bridgestone Tour B XS:

Carry: 183.9 swing: 98, ball speed: 129, smash: 1.31

 

2024 Tp5x:

Carry: 197, swing: 101, ball speed: 132, smash: 1.30

 

2024 Chrome Tour:

Carry: 198, swing: 100, ball speed: 133, smash: 1.33

 

Now I picked the CT as my ball. You can see that my smash was way higher. I don't feel like I swing any better with that ball. Swing speeds are all around the same speed.

 

Hardest to softest for me were:

Prov 1x

CTX

TP5X

Bridgestone Tour B X

CT

Bridgestone Tour B XS

OMG I love it!!! Going to digest and and as mention I got my GC3 just 2 weeks ago and just stared messing around,  The Mevo+ is my bench mark, But real quick as I mentioned

 

Mevo+

Exactice Smash - Prov1 RCT balls -(Averaged data) 6shot average

 

PW- 1.20   - 81.3 CHS,  97.2mph BS -7500rpms - 123y avg Carry

8iron - 1.30  86.6 CHS, 112mph BS - 6500rpms - 152y avg Carry

 

GC3 - 

Exactice Smash - Supersoft Balls - (Averaged data) 6shot average

 

PW - 1.22  - 81.3 CHS, 99.2 BS - 6500rpms, 130y carry

8ron - 1.32 -86.6 CHS, 114mph BS - 5500 rpms 159 avg Carry


red numbers are my estimated smash based on averages.... of swing speed vs ball speed (examples)

 

Ksigs were higher spin by 500-1000 over the Prov1s consistently, and probably a 1mph or .01 or .02 lower in smash so the lowest of the distance caliber. 

Edited April 19 by Exactice808

[sheppick.dan]

17 minutes ago, Exactice808 said:

OMG I love it!!! Going to digest and and as mention I got my GC3 just 2 weeks ago and just stared messing around,  The Mevo+ is my bench mark, But real quick as I mentioned

 

Mevo+

Exactice Smash - Prov1 RCT balls -(Averaged data) 6shot average

 

PW- 1.20   - 81.3 CHS,  97.2mph BS -7500rpms - 123y avg Carry

8iron - 1.30  86.6 CHS, 112mph BS - 6500rpms - 152y avg Carry

 

GC3 - 

Exactice Smash - Supersoft Balls - (Averaged data) 6shot average

 

PW - 1.22  - 81.3 CHS, 99.2 BS - 6500rpms, 130y carry

8ron - 1.32 -86.6 CHS, 114mph BS - 5500 rpms 159 avg Carry


red numbers are my estimated smash based on averages.... of swing speed vs ball speed (examples)

 

Ksigs were higher spin by 500-1000 over the Prov1s consistently, and probably a 1mph or .01 or .02 lower in smash so the lowest of the distance caliber. 

K sig is a firmer ball than pro v 1, right?

 

Did you have any luck or feel any better results by using the metallic dots on non RCT balls?

 

I feel like it’s better but still not as accurate so I don’t personally worry too much on is this the right amount of spin or not. 
 

on Monday I’ll post up data for 8iron and pw. I did the most testing of balls with my 6 iron this year mainly because I felt I was hitting that the best at the time. 

[Exactice808]

7 minutes ago, sheppick.dan said:

K sig is a firmer ball than pro v 1, right?

 

Did you have any luck or feel any better results by using the metallic dots on non RCT balls?

 

I feel like it’s better but still not as accurate so I don’t personally worry too much on is this the right amount of spin or not. 
 

on Monday I’ll post up data for 8iron and pw. I did the most testing of balls with my 6 iron this year mainly because I felt I was hitting that the best at the time. 

Yups Ksigs were firmer than Prov1s (Feel) wise.  Exterior cover is pretty durable so assuming thats part of the firm feel.

 

Ksigs, again have slightly lower BS and higher spin than the ProV1s,  Will go on the GC3 and re run some hard data with some spread sheets.

 

My Mevo+ was a unicorn, I have never had any major issues like some of the others i have heard/read.  using metallic dots netted me the same with  RCTs, so once I switched basically was the same other than "stuck" using data from a Prov1 which again in fairness I dont normally play.

I did use metallic dots on gamers before, (Callaway Chrome Hex- Costco Balls) Same result, slightly faster BS and lower spin so it was reflexive, to using a lower spin ball/budget cheapr ball vs a premium ball.

 

 

Let me run some 6 irons on my end,  might be easier since you are helping me doesnt hurt and its only 1 club! LOL! 

 

Thanks again for helping scratch that itch! 

[sheppick.dan]

7 minutes ago, Exactice808 said:

Yups Ksigs were firmer than Prov1s (Feel) wise.  Exterior cover is pretty durable so assuming thats part of the firm feel.

 

Ksigs, again have slightly lower BS and higher spin than the ProV1s,  Will go on the GC3 and re run some hard data with some spread sheets.

 

My Mevo+ was a unicorn, I have never had any major issues like some of the others i have heard/read.  using metallic dots netted me the same with  RCTs, so once I switched basically was the same other than "stuck" using data from a Prov1 which again in fairness I dont normally play.

I did use metallic dots on gamers before, (Callaway Chrome Hex- Costco Balls) Same result, slightly faster BS and lower spin so it was reflexive, to using a lower spin ball/budget cheapr ball vs a premium ball.

 

 

Let me run some 6 irons on my end,  might be easier since you are helping me doesnt hurt and its only 1 club! LOL! 

 

Thanks again for helping scratch that itch! 

lol, you bet. Glad to find someone as intrigued by it as me. 
 

the tour b xs which was the softer felt like it FLEW off the face. The CT feels pretty quick off the face too but I think I am just striking it more consistent. 

[Red4282]

The soft balls will have more ball speed and efficiency on irons and wedges because they compressing more. The added compressing also leads to less spin becuse there is less “rolling” up the face. The opposite happens with the longer clubs, where you can over compress the soft balls and begin to fully get the benefits of the firmer ball.

At the end of the day, distances may just be a wash, but that just depends in the course and golfer(if you are hitting a lot of driver/partial wedges, then the iron distance isnt helping much). 

 

As far as the Ksig goes, its not really a prov1 clone, but if i had to guess why it spins SO much more than everything else is just the dimple pattern, is that its creating a lot of drag. 

[Exactice808]

3 hours ago, sheppick.dan said:

K sig is a firmer ball than pro v 1, right?

 

Did you have any luck or feel any better results by using the metallic dots on non RCT balls?

 

I feel like it’s better but still not as accurate so I don’t personally worry too much on is this the right amount of spin or not. 
 

on Monday I’ll post up data for 8iron and pw. I did the most testing of balls with my 6 iron this year mainly because I felt I was hitting that the best at the time. 

 

Some quick 6 iron Data, 

 

Tried to blast some shots, not my best, but not my worst either.

KSig +1766 rpm average over the Cally Supersoft - Thats the big number spin

 

Swing speeds about the same 90ish mph,  Ball speed about the same as well.  not see major BS jump as I mentiond but was getting tired beating balls LOL So smash average was ok....

 

Ksig - 169 Carry

ProV1 - 174 carry (+5y ksig)

Cally SS - 180 carry (+6y Prov, +11y Ksig)

 

11y carry is a pretty big on course discrepency with a single iron.  but even 6 yards is a little much. 

 

Distance is nice, but I guess I have to accept and get used to using the Cally's or still tune and find a happy medium. I feel 4469 is too low spin for a 6 iron,  The Prov1 is the sweet spot launch condition wise, $60 for a dozen.....ughh ahaha

 

But dang it its nice to hit a 6iron 180y LOL....

[sheppick.dan]

3 minutes ago, Exactice808 said:

 

Some quick 6 iron Data, 

 

Tried to blast some shots, not my best, but not my worst either.

KSig +1766 rpm average over the Cally Supersoft - Thats the big number spin

 

Swing speeds about the same 90ish mph,  Ball speed about the same as well.  not see major BS jump as I mentiond but was getting tired beating balls LOL So smash average was ok....

 

Ksig - 169 Carry

ProV1 - 174 carry (+5y ksig)

Cally SS - 180 carry (+6y Prov, +11y Ksig)

 

11y carry is a pretty big on course discrepency with a single iron.  but even 6 yards is a little much. 

 

Distance is nice, but I guess I have to accept and get used to using the Cally's or still tune and find a happy medium. I feel 4469 is too low spin for a 6 iron,  The Prov1 is the sweet spot launch condition wise, $60 for a dozen.....ughh ahaha

 

But dang it its nice to hit a 6iron 180y LOL....

Ya, hitting a 6 iron 180 is nice!!!

 

you are right the pro V is looking like a great fit! Do they still have the buy 4 for price of 3 deal? Might ease the pain a little, lol!

 

if you wanna go real deep, send me a PM. I think I have some 2024 tour bx, tour bxs, ctx, tp5 and tp5x. I can send you some used CT as well if you wanna try. 
 

also 23 prov 1x

[Exactice808]

22 minutes ago, Red4282 said:

The soft balls will have more ball speed and efficiency on irons and wedges because they compressing more. The added compressing also leads to less spin becuse there is less “rolling” up the face. The opposite happens with the longer clubs, where you can over compress the soft balls and begin to fully get the benefits of the firmer ball.

At the end of the day, distances may just be a wash, but that just depends in the course and golfer(if you are hitting a lot of driver/partial wedges, then the iron distance isnt helping much). 

 

As far as the Ksig goes, its not really a prov1 clone, but if i had to guess why it spins SO much more than everything else is just the dimple pattern, is that its creating a lot of drag. 

Hey @Red4282

Huh! That all make sense, so the trade offs are the the way it compresses with different clubs.  That also makes sense why Pro's need the firmer ball and wont go with the softer ball.

 

They have swing speed and smash to "Over Compress" even at the lower end of the bag.  That makes sense now.

 

I will say across the bag "Driver" as well I am hitting further,  along with irons and wedges.  It looks due to spin, and some compression,

 

Reduction of spin on the top end is nice, but the bottom end is noticable. Roll out and control.

 

 

Hmmm.... the Rabbit hole goes deeper......

[Exactice808]

8 minutes ago, sheppick.dan said:

Ya, hitting a 6 iron 180 is nice!!!

 

you are right the pro V is looking like a great fit! Do they still have the buy 4 for price of 3 deal? Might ease the pain a little, lol!

 

if you wanna go real deep, send me a PM. I think I have some 2024 tour bx, tour bxs, ctx, tp5 and tp5x. I can send you some used CT as well if you wanna try. 
 

also 23 prov 1x

HAHAAH No No I am all good, I am a value (Cheapskate) in general. I love finding deals and or searching for the "Best Bang for the Buck". Plus this data thing, calms my PTSD... helps keep my mind distracted.

I can afford ProV1's/premium balls, I am just one of those I dont feel like I am a good enough player, and dont feel like I play enough to justify.

6 years ago before the second kid was born, I was playing easily once a week.  I am lucky to play once a month now,  But I do grind on the sim (Range)  I hit the sim about 3 times a week and beat about 50-100 balls per session.  

 

When I do get out, I shoot my Handi comfortably...but just looking to "optomize"

 

Again it was the random surprise finding the Cally Supersofts at Sams Club and a 2 box for under $30, I think it was $27.99 for 2 boxes.  taking them out to the course and seeing the distance jump. Surprised the heck out of me.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 20 by Exactice808

[elwhippy]

Avoid paralysis by analysis. Get out on the course and hit real shots into greens from your regular distances. I find the Supersoft great off irons but short off longer clubs. 

[sheppick.dan]

10 hours ago, Exactice808 said:

HAHAAH No No I am all good, I am a value (Cheapskate) in general. I love finding deals and or searching for the "Best Bang for the Buck". Plus this data thing, calms my PTSD... helps keep my mind distracted.

I can afford ProV1's/premium balls, I am just one of those I dont feel like I am a good enough player, and dont feel like I play enough to justify.

6 years ago before the second kid was born, I was playing easily once a week.  I am lucky to play once a month now,  But I do grind on the sim (Range)  I hit the sim about 3 times a week and beat about 50-100 balls per session.  

 

When I do get out, I shoot my Handi comfortably...but just looking to "optomize"

 

Again it was the random surprise finding the Cally Supersofts at Sams Club and a 2 box for under $30, I think it was $27.99 for 2 boxes.  taking them out to the course and seeing the distance jump. Surprised the heck out of me.

 

 

 

 

if you want to see soft and wicked distance try a Wilson duo. It’s like hitting a foam ball!

[Pepperturbo]

19 hours ago, Jim53 said:

Pepper we don't have much in common I doubt, but I have been a .45 shooter for many years and my son (who is now 30) starting shooting a .45 at 14 years old after taking some advanced tactical shooting classes  as the youngest ever allowed. He is now a LEO and still takes the Kimber Stainless 45 out now and then and can draw and zero a 3 point drill in under 3 seconds.

That Kimber I bought him new and it has over 25,000 rounds down range and in competitions, still shoots like a dream in the right hands. I shoot a custom Nighthawk Talon and even though I rarely practice anymore from 15-20 yards 7 of 9 will be in the center or very close. 

 

People nowadays just don't use the  1911 as a rule (due to round count) but it is still the most accurate and deadly weapon available. Why have 15 rounds when one will do?

Good job raising your son.  LEO 👏  Maybe more than what's obvious.  That Talon is nice, similar in ways to my Detonics, which has been on my side since the 70s.

 

Agree.  A .45, hits, regardless of where, it stops.  I've witnessed the 9mm take too many rds, not stop a combatant, which ended in hand-to-hand. 

 

Anyway, thanks for sharing... 

[Red4282]

13 hours ago, Exactice808 said:

HAHAAH No No I am all good, I am a value (Cheapskate) in general. I love finding deals and or searching for the "Best Bang for the Buck". Plus this data thing, calms my PTSD... helps keep my mind distracted.

I can afford ProV1's/premium balls, I am just one of those I dont feel like I am a good enough player, and dont feel like I play enough to justify.

6 years ago before the second kid was born, I was playing easily once a week.  I am lucky to play once a month now,  But I do grind on the sim (Range)  I hit the sim about 3 times a week and beat about 50-100 balls per session.  

 

When I do get out, I shoot my Handi comfortably...but just looking to "optomize"

 

Again it was the random surprise finding the Cally Supersofts at Sams Club and a 2 box for under $30, I think it was $27.99 for 2 boxes.  taking them out to the course and seeing the distance jump. Surprised the heck out of me.

 

 

 

 

To me, playing an expensive premium ball is all about frequency that you lose them. If you are going through 3+ balls a round, then maybe you ought to think of cheaper options. I hate paying 60 bucks too, but Ive now logged 3 straight rounds with one ball, so it eases my mind a little, 😅. Probably the best substitute for a prov1 on a budget IMO is Vice Pro at about $35. 

[Exactice808]

On 4/19/2024 at 10:00 PM, elwhippy said:

Avoid paralysis by analysis. Get out on the course and hit real shots into greens from your regular distances. I find the Supersoft great off irons but short off longer clubs. 

 True to be fair,  I mentioned as such and this was thread was the Analysis, part. I want to know the info or cause and effect. This is sometimes more fun than actually playing.

In any case, I may be in a sweet spot for compression where I am not seeing a loss in the longer clubs,  but I am noticing a large decrease in overall spin. Again driver is nice,  but the wedges are taking a beating on distance control.

 

@Red4282 enlightened the fact of actual compression, second that I didnt think made that much of a difference but makes sense dimple pattern. I am curious about this. I would have assumed some type of consistency with dimple design??? This is an interesting thought.  Knew dimples had something thing to do with "drag" but didnt think much about it.

 

 

Edited April 22 by Exactice808

[Exactice808]

12 hours ago, sheppick.dan said:

if you want to see soft and wicked distance try a Wilson duo. It’s like hitting a foam ball!

I remember when they first came out... unfortunately that was during my really bad golfing days,  all over the place.   so when it went long it went WAY wrong LOL!

[Exactice808]

8 hours ago, Red4282 said:

To me, playing an expensive premium ball is all about frequency that you lose them. If you are going through 3+ balls a round, then maybe you ought to think of cheaper options. I hate paying 60 bucks too, but Ive now logged 3 straight rounds with one ball, so it eases my mind a little, 😅. Probably the best substitute for a prov1 on a budget IMO is Vice Pro at about $35. 

I dont lose balls as often as a couple of years ago.  What I do notice is a ball doesnt last a round, due to wear....I am a little OCD as you can see and if it starts to get nicked, I change them.  I get some pretty good nicks when hitting full wedges or adding some spin to wedges, get some decent wear on the balls.

 

Ksigs have that hard shell and ProVs too for the most part... cheaper balls well.... are cheap for a reason I guess LOL!

[grochol17]

On 4/19/2024 at 11:27 PM, Exactice808 said:

 

Some quick 6 iron Data, 

 

Tried to blast some shots, not my best, but not my worst either.

KSig +1766 rpm average over the Cally Supersoft - Thats the big number spin

 

Swing speeds about the same 90ish mph,  Ball speed about the same as well.  not see major BS jump as I mentiond but was getting tired beating balls LOL So smash average was ok....

 

Ksig - 169 Carry

ProV1 - 174 carry (+5y ksig)

Cally SS - 180 carry (+6y Prov, +11y Ksig)

 

11y carry is a pretty big on course discrepency with a single iron.  but even 6 yards is a little much. 

 

Distance is nice, but I guess I have to accept and get used to using the Cally's or still tune and find a happy medium. I feel 4469 is too low spin for a 6 iron,  The Prov1 is the sweet spot launch condition wise, $60 for a dozen.....ughh ahaha

 

But dang it its nice to hit a 6iron 180y LOL....

 

This data set tells you a good bit of what you need to know, but not everything. 

 

First, for what it can't tell you... indoors launch monitors use a model for how the ball will fly through the air (I've read many places that the Pro V1 is the aerodynamic model used, but I haven't verified that with any of the LM manufacturers).  So, the various LMs can measure the initial launch conditions, but then they are just applying those conditions to a single ball and telling you what that ball would do with those launch numbers.  They do not take into account any differences in aerodynamics between different ball models.

 

As for what you can take away from your numbers...

 

Well, the obvious thing is that there is no magical jump in ball speed with a soft ball at low swing speeds.  The whole idea that at low speeds you can compress a ball more and get more ball speed is a marketing myth.  Compressing a ball is bad for ball speed because you're losing energy from the collision between the club and ball due to internal friction inside the ball when it is deforming and rebounding.  That's why "overcompression" at high swing speeds causes softer balls lose ball speed compared to harder balls. 

 

Any variations that you see in ball speed are going to be due to either strike differences or changing launch conditions.  You can see with your Pro V1 shots that had 1.33 and 1.39 smash factor a difference in launch of almost 4 degrees.  The 1.39 shot must have had more forward shaft lean, presenting less dynamic loft to the ball, which will naturally result in a high smash factor.  In contrast, your last two shots with the K Sig also had about 4* difference in launch, but no difference in smash factor, which means that you mishit the one with lower launch compared to the one that had the higher launch. 

 

Lastly, any on course differences that you're seeing between the balls appears to be mostly due to spin.  On average, you're getting pretty much the same ball speed and launch out of those three balls, but the spin varies by almost 2000 rpms.  So, in some sense, you're hitting flyers with the supersoft because of the low spin and the K Sig is short because it is spinning too much for you.  The aerodynamics of the dimple pattern may also be contributing, but we can't tell how much on an indoor simulator. 

 

Related note... in contrast to what another poster said, the dimple patterns don't make the ball spin more or less.  The dimple pattern, combined with the spin, controls how the air flows over the ball, which affects the lift and drag of the ball.  Spin rate is controlled by how the ball is constructed.  In their info about the newest AVX (you can find the full press release here: https://mediacenter.titleist.com/en-US/233363-titleist-introduces-next-generation-avx-golf-balls) Titleist says the following about spin:

 

"With three-piece construction golf balls, one of the real benefits is the hard-over-soft and soft-over-hard relationships which allow us to control spin in various aspects of the game,” Madson said. “For example, when there is a very high-speed impact condition, the cover is going to play less of a role during that collision. Most of what is interacting with the club face is that stiff casing layer and that soft core, which is a hard-over-soft relationship. When you have hard-over-soft, it drives spin down. Conversely, on shots around the green, the impact with a wedge is a lower speed collision or more of a glancing blow where the interaction is primarily between the cover and the casing layer. When you have that soft cover over that stiff casing layer, that soft-over-hard relationship drives spin up. This helps give AVX golfers the distance they enjoy at the top end of their bags as well as the greenside spin they seek with their wedges."

 

To your original question up at the very top about what to do with this info, I think you answered your own question in one of your posts... while is it nice that you're getting extra distance with the supersoft on irons, you're losing control on shorter shots due to the low spin.  So, you have to decide what is more important to you... hitting about half a club less into a green or having more spin to stop the ball faster when it hits the green?

[Red4282]

55 minutes ago, grochol17 said:

 

This data set tells you a good bit of what you need to know, but not everything. 

 

First, for what it can't tell you... indoors launch monitors use a model for how the ball will fly through the air (I've read many places that the Pro V1 is the aerodynamic model used, but I haven't verified that with any of the LM manufacturers).  So, the various LMs can measure the initial launch conditions, but then they are just applying those conditions to a single ball and telling you what that ball would do with those launch numbers.  They do not take into account any differences in aerodynamics between different ball models.

 

As for what you can take away from your numbers...

 

Well, the obvious thing is that there is no magical jump in ball speed with a soft ball at low swing speeds.  The whole idea that at low speeds you can compress a ball more and get more ball speed is a marketing myth.  Compressing a ball is bad for ball speed because you're losing energy from the collision between the club and ball due to internal friction inside the ball when it is deforming and rebounding.  That's why "overcompression" at high swing speeds causes softer balls lose ball speed compared to harder balls. 

 

Any variations that you see in ball speed are going to be due to either strike differences or changing launch conditions.  You can see with your Pro V1 shots that had 1.33 and 1.39 smash factor a difference in launch of almost 4 degrees.  The 1.39 shot must have had more forward shaft lean, presenting less dynamic loft to the ball, which will naturally result in a high smash factor.  In contrast, your last two shots with the K Sig also had about 4* difference in launch, but no difference in smash factor, which means that you mishit the one with lower launch compared to the one that had the higher launch. 

 

Lastly, any on course differences that you're seeing between the balls appears to be mostly due to spin.  On average, you're getting pretty much the same ball speed and launch out of those three balls, but the spin varies by almost 2000 rpms.  So, in some sense, you're hitting flyers with the supersoft because of the low spin and the K Sig is short because it is spinning too much for you.  The aerodynamics of the dimple pattern may also be contributing, but we can't tell how much on an indoor simulator. 

 

Related note... in contrast to what another poster said, the dimple patterns don't make the ball spin more or less.  The dimple pattern, combined with the spin, controls how the air flows over the ball, which affects the lift and drag of the ball.  Spin rate is controlled by how the ball is constructed.  In their info about the newest AVX (you can find the full press release here: https://mediacenter.titleist.com/en-US/233363-titleist-introduces-next-generation-avx-golf-balls) Titleist says the following about spin:

 

"With three-piece construction golf balls, one of the real benefits is the hard-over-soft and soft-over-hard relationships which allow us to control spin in various aspects of the game,” Madson said. “For example, when there is a very high-speed impact condition, the cover is going to play less of a role during that collision. Most of what is interacting with the club face is that stiff casing layer and that soft core, which is a hard-over-soft relationship. When you have hard-over-soft, it drives spin down. Conversely, on shots around the green, the impact with a wedge is a lower speed collision or more of a glancing blow where the interaction is primarily between the cover and the casing layer. When you have that soft cover over that stiff casing layer, that soft-over-hard relationship drives spin up. This helps give AVX golfers the distance they enjoy at the top end of their bags as well as the greenside spin they seek with their wedges."

 

To your original question up at the very top about what to do with this info, I think you answered your own question in one of your posts... while is it nice that you're getting extra distance with the supersoft on irons, you're losing control on shorter shots due to the low spin.  So, you have to decide what is more important to you... hitting about half a club less into a green or having more spin to stop the ball faster when it hits the green?

Great input. I have no doubt ball construction is the main contributor to initial spin rates as you have posted as well as the references Titleist quotes. However, the moment the ball leaves the club face, there is spin decay. The dimple pattern will have an effect on how much decay, lift and drag it will have. I will say that its probably the least factors of contribution to total performance, and the fact that the ksig delivers higher initial spin, it seems to indicate its something in the construction of the ball causing it.

Edited April 22 by Red4282