Some people get out of hand with this "pace of play" BS

[sigmapete1]

Is there such a thing as too fast?

Let me say to start that I can't stand being behind a really slow group and there is no excuse for a 6 hour round, that being said, some people take it too far.

This past Sunday I played a round with my father at a local county course. He is just getting back into the game after about 10 years off due to chronic back injuries. He retired this year, lost 60lbs and can now play pain free. We teed off at 12:30pm and were walking, just the two of us.

At about the 8th hole (a par 5) I am hitting my third shot into the green when a ball flies past me and into the left trees. I am clearly in view and heard no warning. We finish the hole as they drive up in their carts and I asked for a little warning next time. We play the subsequent par 3 pretty quick, putting out as they drive up to the tee but they insist on hitting the minute my foot steps off the green. Next hole (the 9th) is a short par 4 and the ranger drives up to us in the fairway and tells us the group behind us was complaining of slow play. It was only about an hour and 20 minutes since we teed off. I told the ranger what time we teed off and he said, "Oh, well then carry on, I'll go talk to them." (As an aside this was the first intelligent ranger I've encountered on this course)

We sped up a little anyway and watching these guys come up the hole next to us, I realized that they were basically playing speed golf. They were all terrible golfers, just bunting the ball 100 or so yards at a clip, no practice swings and driving in their carts as fast as they could to the next shot. No once did they ask to play through or even drive up to us so that we could offer. All they did was try to catch us the entire day, rarely even putting out. I had to turn around and say something a few times as shots got close to us. If they had approached like civilized people, I certainly would have let them play through if they wanted to play that fast, although I suspect that once they were in front the speed golf would have stopped.

We finished the round in just over 3 hours. Pretty damn fast in my estimation. If you play at 1pm on a Sunday afternoon, don't expect a faster round than that.

My question is this, why this insane obsession with playing as fast as you can?

Also, there is never an excuse to hit at someone. For 90% of the round we were plenty ahead of them, but every so often they caught up to us and refused to wait before hitting. Luckily we were usually in the fairway which was fairly safe from their shots. The fact that my father was with me and not some of my more hot headed golf buddies prevented a confrontation on numerous occasions (I tend to be the calm one in my regular group).

Golf is not a speed game, relax, enjoy the game, and if you are anything like these a**holes, maybe concentrate a little more on the score instead of the time.

Oh and if you hit at someone that is in plain sight, don't be surprised to find your ball missing or behind a tree or perhaps even sailing back in your direction.

[mdouet]

You should have saved yourself alot of headache and let them play through. I always let fast impatient golfers play through, saves me alot of stress in the long run. I agree though, too many golfers seem to want to get their round over with as quickly as possible. I'm out there because I enjoy the game and the course, I want to savor the game.

[jaskanski]

Whilst slow play is the bain of many golf courses, fast players can be just as loathsome. I like a steady pace of play (3-4 hours maximum), but I can't understand those individuals who seem to hit their shots while running at the same time. Golf isn't a race to see who can finish first. Didn't Walter Hagen once say, "don't forget to stop to smell the flowers on the way"? You bet.

[stage1350]

Slow play is much more of a pain than fast players.

 

It's difficult to explain to people that they are slowing up the ENTIRE GOLF COURSE.

 

Fast people? Just make them walk. Nobody will be huffing and puffing from jogging to their golf ball. They will play at a decent pace if you eliminate the carts.

[Dizz]

I mean there is no real way to make everybody happy so if you want to play golf at a fast pace then go to an empty course (if you can find one) or play as early as possible. I only play golf once or twice a week now and only on the weekends anymore if its a place I've never played before or a really good friend wants to play. Other than that I can't be bothered to spend 3 hours after work to play 9 holes.

 

I will say though that if you truly finished in 3 hours then I can't believe there were 1. people waiting on you every shot and 2. they had the nerve to complain of slow play.

[mat562]

I'm all for keeping up a brisk pace of play, but it sounds like that group weren't typical of the average bloke (like me) who simply thinks it's reasonable to get round a golf course in under 4 hours - even on foot and in a fourball.

 

That said, however keen I am to get on with things I don't hit into people, even if they're moving in slow motion. The limit of my demonstration will be to politely ask to play through (assuming that the group are actually the slow ones and have some clear space ahead of them) and, if they don't cotton on to that then I tend to do the usual mickey-taking stuff - like sitting on my bag in the fairway, lying down on the tee for a nap etc. making sure it's obvious to the snails.

 

As annoyed as I am at slow play, sometimes it's simply unavoidable when groups get backed up and things grind to a near-halt. What does annoy me is when you get behind a group that think they own the course and are oblivious to the fact that they are the only people on the entire course that are holding things up and the two clear holes ahead of them. People can play as slowly as they like for me as long as they're aware of how they fit into the grand scheme of things and consider other people by letting them through where it's appropriate. That's the really annoying part of slow play and the thing that needs to be addressed in my opinion.

 

It sounds like the OP and his father were playing pretty quickly and just ran into some people who've got a thing about flying round the course - to the detriment of manners and common sense. I agree it would probably have been better to let them through and hopefully carry on with their silliness all the way to the clubhouse and, presumably, another few gallons of extra-strength coffee in the spike bar to celebrate breaking 150 in a new, record time.

[sigmapete1]

Well, I am glad I am not the only one who thought that was ridiculous. The thing about letting them play through was that they never once made an attempt to drive up and ask to do so. I am all for letting faster players play through. It almost seemed as if they would hang back just enough so that they could piss me off, or possibly were a little worried after I berated them for hitting at us from 200yds away.

 

I'll admit after a few times getting hit into, we simply agreed that we would refuse to let them play through even if they did ask, and that was stubborn of me. We were much better players so we would pull ahead of them on longer par 4s and 5s and they would inevitably catch up just enough when there was a lengthy walk between holes.

 

And yes I was entirely accurate about the time. Teed off at 12:30pm and was in my car driving home by 4pm. I am guessing we walked off the 18th green in about 3 hours and 15 min.

 

This leads me to another question....what do you guys do when you get hit at like that? The second time it happened, he sliced his ball into the woods which happened to be by the next tee. On my way over there, I found the ball and made sure it found its way to a nice position up against a tree. Probably not a real mature thing to do, but boy did I enjoy watching him try and hit it.

[777twist]

Well, I am glad I am not the only one who thought that was ridiculous. The thing about letting them play through was that they never once made an attempt to drive up and ask to do so. I am all for letting faster players play through. It almost seemed as if they would hang back just enough so that they could piss me off, or possibly were a little worried after I berated them for hitting at us from 200yds away.

 

I'll admit after a few times getting hit into, we simply agreed that we would refuse to let them play through even if they did ask, and that was stubborn of me. We were much better players so we would pull ahead of them on longer par 4s and 5s and they would inevitably catch up just enough when there was a lengthy walk between holes.

 

And yes I was entirely accurate about the time. Teed off at 12:30pm and was in my car driving home by 4pm. I am guessing we walked off the 18th green in about 3 hours and 15 min.

 

This leads me to another question....what do you guys do when you get hit at like that? The second time it happened, he sliced his ball into the woods which happened to be by the next tee. On my way over there, I found the ball and made sure it found its way to a nice position up against a tree. Probably not a real mature thing to do, but boy did I enjoy watching him try and hit it.

 

Just pick up his ball...keep it. I hate to give advice as to what you should do though...it all depends on your confrontation power, meaning...how much are you willing to get into it with someone? These guys do sound like some serious Word not allowedes, but I would have hung back on a hole and let them play through. So you can't completely blame them for never asking. I have had people wait for me... I play a lot alone, so I'm going to be quicker. Shoot last week, some guys hit into me on a hole, but they didn't know I was there. I was on the other side of a hill off in the left rough. I was waiting till the group left the green as it was only 200 yards out. Anyway, those guys hit into me, but I just stepped out in the fairway and then they said "sorry." I said no problem. I played out that hole, and the guys in front of me played their tee shots and waited for me to come up and asked if I wanted to play through. I said "thank you."

 

But there is no excuse to hit into someone on purpose...unless you are rocketing a ball back at them for hitting into you!!!!!!! hehehe

[HackerD]

Sounds like you spent most of the round p*ssed off because of the group behind you. Although it is irritating in the moment, simply stopping at the next tee and allowing them to play through could have made for an overall better day for you and your dad.

[larrybud]

There's never a good excuse for hitting into another group.

 

That said, you need offer the group behind you to play through. Few people will ask to play through. Just wait 2 minutes on the next tee, as it sounds as though they would drive up to your tee in no time.

[Ronzo]

There is still a big difference between gracious fast play and rude fast play.

 

This past Saturday, we had four groups of slow players in front of us. We started as a twosome. When the twosome behind us met us on the third tee, we asked them to join us, since there was no place to play though anyway. They graciously accepted, and we enjoyed playing with them for the rest of the day. On the next tee, however, a threesome of incredibly rude people headed up by a good player dressed in Miami Hurricanes orange started to park close to our carts, got up on the tee and teed the ball up, waving the driver around, while we were driving to our tee shots.

 

It was a very unsubtle bit of intimidation. I'm personally not inclined to be intimidated by anyone. I let myself get upset and angry, and my game went to pot until I finally asked the "gentlemen" if they indeed wanted to play through on the ninth tee.

 

I was nine strokes better on the back nine after these people had passed us. What was interesting to see was that they did exactly the same intimidation deal to FOUR other groups ahead of us.

 

It's a good thing I'm far more mature than I was 35 years ago. ACL surgery performed with a sand wedge wouldn't have been pretty to watch, and would have gotten me locked up and sued. But if you were that guy in orange, and you see me again -- I'm pretty difficult to miss -- I'd be more than happy to discuss this further with you.

[billhager]

i'd say eff that your out there to play golf. as long as your keeping up with play you can take 5hours to play look at what pga pros go though .. i like to look at all the options and deside what shot to play just like they do .. you think rushing though a round in 3 1/2 hours gives you the best score your wrong .. those guys take 6 or 7 practice strokes to find exactly what they want to do and then commit to it .. so f*** all those people who want to get out there and just beat the ball around

[Blues Golfer]

you could have been funny.

 

"Are you a NASCAR driver?"

 

"Do you remember the last year you putted out?"

 

"Are you late for a lesson?"

 

"Are you trying to get a good look at my A@@?"

 

"If you are trying to hit me, I can do better. Go stand by the pin, close your eyes, maybe I'll yell fore."

 

"please and thank you are a whole lot easier than I'm sorry ma'am, I'll since I killed your husband I'll pay your son's tuition to Harvard."

 

In the South, a simple "didn't your mamma teach you any manners?" is usually enough to get your point across.

[joe68odessa]

i think they just sound like a bunch of idiots.

[proknows]

If you are holding up a group behind you, it is your responsibility to ask them if they would like to play through. I think this would have made the day a lot more enjoyable for you and your Dad. If they were jerks, it is better to just let them pass and to never worry about them again. Congratulations on playing in 3:15, as most of us only dream of that quick of round...

[Blues Golfer]

sorry proknows, I do not agree.

 

If you are on pace, you are under no obligation to ask someone to play through. If the group behind wants to play through, the proper way to do so is ask "excuse me PLEASE, we'd like to play through. Would that be alright with you so you can enjoy your round?" Most people drive carts. They can drive ahead of their ball to the group ahead, politely make their request, and then drive back to their ball to play and catch up on the next tee.

 

I walk and play, and if I'm playing alone I can play 18 in three to three and a half. If someone comes up behind me who I can see is playing faster, I have no problem letting them play through, if they ask.

 

I play behind two and threesomes all the time when I'm alone. Many times they ask if I want to go through or join them. Often I say no thanks, I'm working on my game. But when I want to get through and they don't offer, I ask. In over 30 years of playing, not once has anyone turned down my request to play through.

 

I don't hit into the group ahead and then expect bad behaviour to be rewarded.

 

from USGA.org

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Pace of Play

 

Play at Good Pace and Keep Up

 

Players should play at a good pace. The Committee may establish pace of play guidelines that all players should follow.

 

It is a group's responsibility to keep up with the group in front. If it loses a clear hole and it is delaying the group behind, it should invite the group behind to play through, irrespective of the number of players in that group.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

So yea, IF someone has fallen behind, then yes, proper etiquette is that they offer. This case was pretty clear that they had not fallen behind.

[Ronzo]

This weekend, the ranger at the course I played asked us to hold up for a twosome at the third hole, so we as a threesome would not be holding them up. We waited about 10 minutes for them to finish the 2nd, while the group ahead played their second shots to the green and putted out.

 

The twosome drives up without a thank-you, then proceeds to hit their tee shots; one into the bushes near the tee, and other into the trees on the right.

 

In the meantime, the group that was behind them finishes the 2nd hole just as we're preparing to tee off after the twosome we allowed through finally got out of range. We teed off OK, and then that group behind us -- another twosome -- starts to push to be allowed through as well. With noplace to go in front of us.

 

I was playing with a friend and a customer. My customer left after nine holes, saying he couldn't play under those conditions. BTW, his son is a pro at another local course. He plays OK, and he knows the etiquette.

 

This is getting to suck really badly. These people are out of hand, and out of line.

[KevCarter]

I agree Ronzo,

 

You could be part of a foursome, playing at an acceptable 4 hour pace, and be forced to allow one and two-somes through all day. That is not right. Why should the foursomes round be constantly disrupted by groups of fewer than 4?

 

Kevin

[Ronzo]

Thanks for the support, Kevin. When did the distaste for slow play -- which I share -- degenerate into an excuse for rude and dangerous behavior?

[avrag]

It is a group's responsibility to keep up with the group in front. If it loses a clear hole and it is delaying the group behind, it should invite the group behind to play through, irrespective of the number of players in that group.

 

I think that's the point, and the only thing that matters.

[777twist]

First off, it seems that the reason "pace" is tough to enforce and deal with is because the only rule/etiquette about it is so arbitrary.

 

For example, it says that you are to keep pace... but what is pace? And even if they set a pace it would still be arbitrary. Courses of different lengths and ratings will play different.

 

Then you have the whole if you lose a clear hole you should let the group behind play through. But what's losing a hole? There are plenty of times when we tee off and no one is in front of us...not anywhere on the first hole. So, no if a group comes up behind us at some point, have we lost a hole?

 

Certainly if there is a hole open in front of us and a faster group comes up from behind, we will let them play through. But I think the rules should be more clearly defined. And each course should define the pace based on their course ...and it should almost be a per day alteration.

 

Like, what about a course that has a certain rating, but they let the grass grow in the rough another inch or more than normal...and it rained. We don't have spotters on our balls, so it may take a little longer for everyone to get through this course.

 

Plus, some course book too many people too quickly. I think the average time hole should take is 13 min based on a 4 hour pace. But some of the courses I play book people on the 10 or even as low as 7 min mark. That's just asking for trouble.

 

Oh, and I disagree with Blues Golfer. I think the group that's in front, and techincally has the power should be the ones to ask if the group behind wants to play through. But that's just me. Plus, who want's a fast group playing up your arse all day, if there's an open hole...ask them to play through.

[Terrible-Tom]

Nothing more frustrating then to let a group play through and then sit behind them on every shot. Now your pace is delayed along with everybody behind you once they catch up to the next group. Sometimes there's just nowhere to go.

[Ronzo]

Nothing more frustrating then to let a group play through and then sit behind them on every shot. Now your pace is delayed along with everybody behind you once they catch up to the next group. Sometimes there's just nowhere to go.

 

AMEN, BROTHER!!!

[Sherlockian]

A friend and I were playing last Wednesday at one of our local courses. We walk almost all of the time, unless we play an exceptionally long course. We do not linger and are pretty fast players ourselves. We also play conservative shots, which prevents excessive walking to errant shots. When we hit off of the #6 par 5 tee, I noticed a cart approaching the previous green. As I was hitting my second shot, I heard a driver "crack" behind me. I was annoyed but noticed the ball landed about a 150 yards off the tee. Well we finished that hole and proceeded to walk to the next tee(par 3). On this hole you actually walk up the entire fairway to the tee box. When we got on the tee, the players behind us were hitting their 4th approach shot. We hit our shots and on the walk to the green(I was on and my friend was about 10 feet off), we met the guys behind us in their cart. They smiled, we waved, and continued to our balls(maybe 1 minute max). I had just stepped up to the green, when we hear a yell from behind. "Hey ya'll mind if we play through?" I turned around to see one of the guys with his ball teed and standing at address with a Driver(167 yard par 3). Since I walk I normally let people in carts play through, but this pissed me off. I told him that I was on the green and we would let them play through at the next tee. This got me a "Mother-------" and a slamming driver. Well we putted out and walked to the next tee. We let them play through after waiting around 5 minutes for them to get to the tee. Of course I made a few comments on proper etiquette, courtesy, and language. This was not well received, which I didn't think it would be. Luckily my friend pointed out some more appropriate ways for them to ask for a play through and they were off. The most annoying thing about this is, after we let them play through, we were on their heels the rest of the course. This is the type of behavior that makes me loathe playing public courses without tee times and course oversight. It's almost like some drivers on the road, they have to be in front. You know the people I am talking about. You are driving 55 and they pass you like a bat out of He--, only to get in front of you and slow down to 53.

[roll - gybe]

I've been stewing about this issue for a while. At a certain rate of speed, you are no longer playing golf. Of course, some people never really do...

I get accused of playing slowly occasionally by my friends who suck at golf. However, they are faulting me for looking at the putt from the low side; having a setup routine, etc. I think my 15 fewer shots more than makes up for it as compared to their game.

 

When I play with my lower handicap friends, we take our time, hole out putts, and hit good shots. The result is almost always a FASTER round.

 

Playing with someone up your rear end stinks. If they are going too fast, I don't really want to let them through and have to wait for them to clear out (after they hack it up). Usually, they fall back on the merit of their own hacking eventually anyway. Sometimes I give them a shot to play through and see if they are really ready. If not, I just move on and they can stay back there.

[harold baines]

if you have space open in front of you, and anyone is on your heels, you should let them go thorough even if you are on pace to finish 18 in 2 hours

 

no reason to attempt to be the "pace police" and slow people down because while you may playing faster than the course requires there is no reason to slow anyone else down if it's avoidable

 

don't be like those asshats on the freeway driving 70 in the fast lane

[Swingtheclub]

Well as you all know I do not advocate speed golf it seems such a waste then again I am not exactly slow either.

 

It is becoming the new phenomena see how fast you can get around so you can sit in the clubhouse and suck beer.

 

I will say this if I was taking ten hours to play the minute one of them hit into me they lost all chance of playing through

 

The next time I would have hit there ball off in some other direction not back to them you might hit them

 

I once backhanded one in a nearby pond The third time well that has not ever happened thank goodness

[Dizz]

I've been stewing about this issue for a while. At a certain rate of speed, you are no longer playing golf. Of course, some people never really do...

I get accused of playing slowly occasionally by my friends who suck at golf. However, they are faulting me for looking at the putt from the low side; having a setup routine, etc. I think my 15 fewer shots more than makes up for it as compared to their game.

 

When I play with my lower handicap friends, we take our time, hole out putts, and hit good shots. The result is almost always a FASTER round.

 

Playing with someone up your rear end stinks. If they are going too fast, I don't really want to let them through and have to wait for them to clear out (after they hack it up). Usually, they fall back on the merit of their own hacking eventually anyway. Sometimes I give them a shot to play through and see if they are really ready. If not, I just move on and they can stay back there.

 

You dont need to be slow to be good. What do you mean by at a certain rate of speed you aren't playing golf? I played 9 holes on lunch break this year on an open course in 40 minutes and shot 30. I'm sorry but if you're looking at every single angle on that 10 foot par putt then you are probably taking too long, especially if you waited for all 3 other players to play before even looking at your putt. I mean there is nothing wrong with being thorough as long as you are ready to hit when its your turn. The chances are if you are getting called out by players not up to your skill level for playing slow then you are too slow.

 

If you pay attention to those around you then you'll notice the guys who can go through.

[LottaBalata]

Sometimes I get caught up in how well I'm playing. . .the only time I really rush is when I'm playing alone and in a cart--and I'm playing well. I try to relax and enjoy the game. . .I've been walking a lot more recently. I had foot surgery last year, so walking 18 hasn't really been an option until just recently.

 

Honestly, for the most part, people are APATHETIC INCOSIDERATE MONKEYS. They have no respect for others, they only care about themselves. Personally, if I were you and that group was behind me, we would have definitely had words. If I'm slow, its because I was grouped with some Sloth of a player, or I'm behind a couple of Sloths.

 

People need to learn patience in many aspects of life. I see impatient people on the roads, in gas stations, in Mickey D's. . .It doesn't matter to them. . ."ME, ME, ME" is all they're thinking.

 

I try to play with as much respect and etiquette as anyone. If I'm behind slower players that are really screwin' up the flow--I'll just call the clubhouse.

[Ronzo]

if you have space open in front of you, and anyone is on your heels, you should let them go thorough even if you are on pace to finish 18 in 2 hours

 

no reason to attempt to be the "pace police" and slow people down because while you may playing faster than the course requires there is no reason to slow anyone else down if it's avoidable

 

don't be like those asshats on the freeway driving 70 in the fast lane

 

If there is no place for you to go after I permit you to play through, even if you asked me nicely, what's the point?

 

Oh, and BTW... if I'm in the fast lane on the highway and you come up behind me and flash your lights, I'm happy to move over as soon as I have a break in the traffic on my right to do so. But if you tailgate me, you WILL get a faceful of my brake lights and rear bumper. And God help you if you hit me. Then we'd see if your lawyer could beat up my lawyer, and how much of your salary you'd have garnished.

 

As I said in an earlier post, I'm not inclined to tolerate attempts at intimidating me.