Scotty Cameron Classic Mini

[Jesperday]

Oh yeah... And some B**ches got RickRoll'd towards the end! :D

[TuffKukae]

Does anyone have the cliffnotes on this thread so I don't have to read 21 pages?

 

 

Scotty lied, TCC cried

 

In all seriousnessness I have a few $$$$ scotties, but this thread was an eye opener.

[RobotDoctor]

Does anyone have the cliffnotes on this thread so I don't have to read 21 pages?

 

 

nickpoz said there were 5 minis

forgasim called complete b.s.

forgasim gives history lesson

he said

he said

your momma

no your momma

my daddy can beat your daddy in an arm wrestling match

no my daddy can beat your daddy in an arm wrestling match

good information

scotty this

scotty that

everyone is baffled that the guy wouldn't sell the mini for $40k

the deal was for $45k but fell through

a 3rd party was involved

i said a 3rd party was trying to skim off the top (jokingly)

biscuity goes off on all putter makers for no reason

rrkman swears up and down he's done posting but no one believes him

foregasim gives some more history

someone shows a pic of scotty as suddam hussain

someone actually gets offended by the pic

someone calls a pic of scotty gay

someone actually gets offended by a member calling the pic gay

CPSOX sounds pretty reasonable on his version

Forgasim sounds reasonable on his version

 

well...you get this point. just click on forgasim's profile for the good stuff. sorry fore :D

 

oh yeah... byron has made some mini's (dh9) and so has bettinardi (3/4)- both are solid!

 

Thanks Jesper! This post made me laugh. :)

[Jesperday]

Does anyone have the cliffnotes on this thread so I don't have to read 21 pages?

 

 

nickpoz said there were 5 minis

forgasim called complete b.s.

forgasim gives history lesson

he said

he said

your momma

no your momma

my daddy can beat your daddy in an arm wrestling match

no my daddy can beat your daddy in an arm wrestling match

good information

scotty this

scotty that

everyone is baffled that the guy wouldn't sell the mini for $40k

the deal was for $45k but fell through

a 3rd party was involved

i said a 3rd party was trying to skim off the top (jokingly)

biscuity goes off on all putter makers for no reason

rrkman swears up and down he's done posting but no one believes him

foregasim gives some more history

someone shows a pic of scotty as suddam hussain

someone actually gets offended by the pic

someone calls a pic of scotty gay

someone actually gets offended by a member calling the pic gay

CPSOX sounds pretty reasonable on his version

Forgasim sounds reasonable on his version

 

well...you get this point. just click on forgasim's profile for the good stuff. sorry fore :D

 

oh yeah... byron has made some mini's (dh9) and so has bettinardi (3/4)- both are solid!

 

Thanks Jesper! This post made me laugh. :)

 

 

Just let me know if I left something out. :D

[ball game]

How is Scotty viewed amongst his peers that have worked with him? It is one thing to be envious of success; however, there seems to be much deeper issues. Do any contemporaries that have worked with Cameron have any positive experiences? Is it more than not paying homage to the putting legends?

 

 

• TP Mills –
  
• David Mills -
  
• Bettinardi -
  
• Tad Moore ?
  
• Byron ?
  
• Ray Cook?
  
• Kia Ma?
  
• George P?
  
• Add any missing
  

 

Thanks

 

 

Ball Game

 

[xxio]

Is it just me or does anyone else find it ironic that all this info comes from a thread started by Nickpoz extolling the value of a Cameron?

[Jesperday]

Is it just me or does anyone else find it ironic that all this info comes from a thread started by Nickpoz extolling the value of a Cameron?

 

 

All I know is next time I consider posting a thread I'm going to ask myself "WWFD?" and if it would lead into 21 pages. If so, I'll keep my s**t to myself! :D

[tangojay]

Were is Nickpoz ? Thanks for the information guys, this has been an overall informative and civilized thread, thanks :blind:

[oregongolf]

Were is Nickpoz ? Thanks for the information guys, this has been an overall informative and civilized thread, thanks :blind:

As much as everyone would like to use the "still folding sweaters" line, I'm sure he's been called off of posting here by the those who butter his bread.

[RobotDoctor]

Does anyone have the cliffnotes on this thread so I don't have to read 21 pages?

Scotty lied, TCC cried

In all seriousnessness I have a few $$$$ scotties, but this thread was an eye opener.

What are $$$$ scotties?

 

 

I would say high dollar putters.

[markheardjr]

How is Scotty viewed amongst his peers that have worked with him? It is one thing to be envious of success; however, there seems to be much deeper issues. Do any contemporaries that have worked with Cameron have any positive experiences? Is it more than not paying homage to the putting legends?

 

 

• TP Mills –
  
• David Mills -
  
• Bettinardi -
  
• Tad Moore ?
  
• Byron ?
  
• Ray Cook?
  
• Kia Ma?
  
• George P?
  
• Add any missing
  

 

Thanks

 

 

Ball Game

 

 

Ken Giannini

Dave Whitlam

John Ortega

George P I believe is Polambi, he's on here. GeoPutters

[hodges]

Is it just me or does anyone else find it ironic that all this info comes from a thread started by Nickpoz extolling the value of a Cameron?

 

Nick posted "The owner of the putter turned down an offer of $40,000 last year. "

I don't think he extolled or offer any point of view on the value of the putter. He just posted what he knew, was confirmed by someone else connected to the deal and had someone who knew nothing about the deal call it bs.

Why would you want to continue posting in a thread where you could be personally attacked by people that don't have any facts?

 

Most things the value is determined by what someone will pay for an item.

 

Maybe the putter is only worth the buyers offer, but if he is unable to purchase one at his offering price maybe it is worth more.

 

It is such a small market for an item like this that the value would be nearly impossible to determine prior to a sale.

 

It would be like trying to put a value on the Honus Wagner basball card or the inverted Jenny stamp.

It would all be guessing until one sells.

 

Anyone offering an opinion on the value of any mini is simply speculating.

[pennstater23]

Its time I make a post, I have done so on PT and TCC....so why not here! I dont want the thread to die yet....I think this is a great thread....at the least it makes you think....whatever that thought is...envoking thought is often what blogging is about...the personal attacks should be left out, but people often have a strong opinion and get a bit carried away.....I think the freedom of speech in here works very well, which is obviously something that does not work well on TCC...

 

I had a bad experience with SC....where was I to post about it? could not do it on TCC or banished I would have been....so I went to PT to talk about it....and what do I get...2 Cameron Crazies pissed off at me....and sending me PM's on TCC telling me so....actually got warned about my TCC account from posting on another site....S**T what? I would have thought buying a 350g putter for $2200 would be 350g (not the 333g it came as....and all the crap that followed!) for me it was the best thing that could have happened because I started to search all the other manufactors and learned a lot....and saw the quality that all these manufactors posess....including SC on occasion, which from time to time I still game one...(not often though)

 

I think it would be wise for the Cameron Crazies to open there mind a bit....it helps...yes others could do the same I suppose, but all to often I see the other side as having a decent reason for there beef with SC...including mine

 

Another side story, but it is moments like the following that show SC's and Titleist ability to be club / putter W****S on the tour....I was at the AT and T national....hanging out with Jay Green around the putting green....Bob Estes, sporting his TP MILLS handmade, was putting so I walked over to watch....the Titleist rep grabs a large duffle that had 30 or 40 putters in it with tags on it....he dives in and pulls out an SC tour bullseye (very similair to his handmade) tagged Bob E., walks over to B.E. and says "Scotty had this made for you, thought you might like to get back to an SC putter"........you have to be kidding me.......B.E. takes one look, takes a stance with it....hands it back and says the Lie angle is wrong...and turns around.....NICE!

 

B.E. went back to putting! when he was finished he saw me standing next to his bag with my TP Mills shirt on....and said you would like this putter, David made it for me....then handed it over the fence and let me roll a few with it....even though I am left handed! I said dont change anytime soon....which he said was not an issue....

 

Consistently I see the T/SC reps try this move with guys not using SC's....but never any of the other reps....I understand it is there job, but I just found it a bit trashy...yet again another experiance that turns me away from the Marketing Machine known as SC....not the better putter maker.....actually not even close

 

Just my thoughts......or JAT for you Cam Fans!

 

Vince

[TM golf guy]

Why would you want to continue posting in a thread where you could be personally attacked by people that don't have any facts?

 

Don't you mean why would he continue posting in a thread where he has no facts to refute what they are saying? :beruo:

[texas-ex]

I love putters. I hate "collectibles". My Pre-Titleist Cameron putters are some of my favorites and my Cami&Co NPII GSS is in the bag right now. I could give a crap what they are worth on the resale market or what machine shop milled them. I own a machine shop with all the same CNC capabilities at RJB, K-Tech, and whoever else is milling/turning steel in this country. I could make all the putters I want but it doesn't interest me to do so -- there isn't any money in it unless you are flipping 1000+ head batches.

 

Anyway, the reason I game the CamiCo is because it looks almost identical to a Pat Pend Anser 2 but it's milled from a solid piece of 303 stainless. The feel is better than the old PING. I don't care that it's a $5000 "copy".

 

Putt with what gets the ball in the hole in the fewest strokes. Worry less about internet people and collectible markets. Enjoy your life.

[wentorf11]

I've avoided really posting on the "issues" of this thread, but just wanted to address somethings below. Again thanks to those that have brought valuable information to the thread and backed it with sources and not just put spin on things like a seasoned politician.

 

Is it just me or does anyone else find it ironic that all this info comes from a thread started by Nickpoz extolling the value of a Cameron?

 

Nick posted "The owner of the putter turned down an offer of $40,000 last year. "

I don't think he extolled or offer any point of view on the value of the putter. He just posted what he knew, was confirmed by someone else connected to the deal and had someone who knew nothing about the deal call it bs.

 

I don't think the deal was called BS, but the whole 1/5 issue...

 

Why would you want to continue posting in a thread where you could be personally attacked by people that don't have any facts?

 

Personally I think the "attacks" of Nick had decent backing, maybe not in court but for an internet forum, pretty decent evidence has been layed before us.

Most things the value is determined by what someone will pay for an item.

 

Maybe the putter is only worth the buyers offer, but if he is unable to purchase one at his offering price maybe it is worth more.

 

It is such a small market for an item like this that the value would be nearly impossible to determine prior to a sale.

 

It would be like trying to put a value on the Honus Wagner basball card or the inverted Jenny stamp.

It would all be guessing until one sells.

 

Anyone offering an opinion on the value of any mini is simply speculating.

 

 

 

 

 

[jick]

I am just wondering about the minis going around, Cameron, Bettinardi, and even Morgan.

 

But let's start with the Cameron since it is the topic here.

 

What is the headweight on that putter? It is really unusually light or were the proportions to make it small moved elsewhere (such as deeper face, fatter plumber's neck) to make it a normal-weight putter (320 to 360 grams)?

[tpariff]

I love putters. I hate "collectibles". My Pre-Titleist Cameron putters are some of my favorites and my Cami&Co NPII GSS is in the bag right now. I could give a crap what they are worth on the resale market or what machine shop milled them. I own a machine shop with all the same CNC capabilities at RJB, K-Tech, and whoever else is milling/turning steel in this country. I could make all the putters I want but it doesn't interest me to do so -- there isn't any money in it unless you are flipping 1000+ head batches.

 

Anyway, the reason I game the CamiCo is because it looks almost identical to a Pat Pend Anser 2 but it's milled from a solid piece of 303 stainless. The feel is better than the old PING. I don't care that it's a $5000 "copy".

 

Putt with what gets the ball in the hole in the fewest strokes. Worry less about internet people and collectible markets. Enjoy your life.

 

You have a machine shop, so you obviously know a thing or two about metal. What's your take on GSS vs. regular stainless steel? Are there any differences in the composition of the metal?

 

I know some think they FEEL different, but I'd like to get your thoughts on any scientific differences.

 

Thanks.

Kevin

[TM golf guy]

I am just wondering about the minis going around, Cameron, Bettinardi, and even Morgan.

 

But let's start with the Cameron since it is the topic here.

 

What is the headweight on that putter? It is really unusually light or were the proportions to make it small moved elsewhere (such as deeper face, fatter plumber's neck) to make it a normal-weight putter (320 to 360 grams)?

 

Jick,

 

I can't help you on the Cameron, but since you mentioned Bettinardi and Morgan I can help you on those two. My Bettinardi 3/4 is 362 grams, and the Byron I just ordered is 350 grams.

[varsityhacker]

I am just wondering about the minis going around, Cameron, Bettinardi, and even Morgan.

 

But let's start with the Cameron since it is the topic here.

 

What is the headweight on that putter? It is really unusually light or were the proportions to make it small moved elsewhere (such as deeper face, fatter plumber's neck) to make it a normal-weight putter (320 to 360 grams)?

 

Jick,

 

I can't help you on the Cameron, but since you mentioned Bettinardi and Morgan I can help you on those two. My Bettinardi 3/4 is 362 grams, and the Byron I just ordered is 350 grams.

 

That didn't take long lol :D . Thinking of buying one of the Copper Mini's but, before I do I need to see a picture of all 5 heads. ;)

[TM golf guy]

I am just wondering about the minis going around, Cameron, Bettinardi, and even Morgan.

 

But let's start with the Cameron since it is the topic here.

 

What is the headweight on that putter? It is really unusually light or were the proportions to make it small moved elsewhere (such as deeper face, fatter plumber's neck) to make it a normal-weight putter (320 to 360 grams)?

 

Jick,

 

I can't help you on the Cameron, but since you mentioned Bettinardi and Morgan I can help you on those two. My Bettinardi 3/4 is 362 grams, and the Byron I just ordered is 350 grams.

 

That didn't take long lol :D . Thinking of buying one of the Copper Mini's but, before I do I need to see a picture of all 5 heads. ;)

 

Supposedly I got the last copper one LOL.

[varsityhacker]

I am just wondering about the minis going around, Cameron, Bettinardi, and even Morgan.

 

But let's start with the Cameron since it is the topic here.

 

What is the headweight on that putter? It is really unusually light or were the proportions to make it small moved elsewhere (such as deeper face, fatter plumber's neck) to make it a normal-weight putter (320 to 360 grams)?

 

Jick,

 

I can't help you on the Cameron, but since you mentioned Bettinardi and Morgan I can help you on those two. My Bettinardi 3/4 is 362 grams, and the Byron I just ordered is 350 grams.

 

That didn't take long lol :D . Thinking of buying one of the Copper Mini's but, before I do I need to see a picture of all 5 heads. ;)

 

Supposedly I got the last copper one LOL.

 

Well scratch that one. Nice pickup, can't wait to see the pics.

[KDMullins]

I love putters. I hate "collectibles". My Pre-Titleist Cameron putters are some of my favorites and my Cami&Co NPII GSS is in the bag right now. I could give a crap what they are worth on the resale market or what machine shop milled them. I own a machine shop with all the same CNC capabilities at RJB, K-Tech, and whoever else is milling/turning steel in this country. I could make all the putters I want but it doesn't interest me to do so -- there isn't any money in it unless you are flipping 1000+ head batches.

 

Anyway, the reason I game the CamiCo is because it looks almost identical to a Pat Pend Anser 2 but it's milled from a solid piece of 303 stainless. The feel is better than the old PING. I don't care that it's a $5000 "copy".

Putt with what gets the ball in the hole in the fewest strokes. Worry less about internet people and collectible markets. Enjoy your life.

 

Nice post. No matter where you stand on these issues, it's hard to disagree with the bold text above. At the end of the day, that's all that matters.

[psd]

I've read every post in this, now, 22-page thread. Some of the supposed "damning" evidence against Scotty Cameron simply doesn't make sense to me.

 

For example, WHY would someone weld over the A.B. initials on a tour putter and reissue it as something else? And WHY is that such a big deal?

 

Similarly, why WOULDN'T someone re-do a putter that mistakenly had a 'Y' added? If this was a mistake, and it was rectified where the mistake took place, why wouldn't is be considered authentic?

 

And lastly, WHY is it so hard to believe that only one mini was stamped, eg. 1 of 5?

 

I understand there are a number of people who may not agree with some of Titleist's or Scottty Cameron's business practices, but why are certain other instances that seem totally reasonable/sensible held up as devious or misleading practices? It seems there is a clear bias on both sides.

 

Full disclosure: I'm a member at CameronCollector.com but a very small fish in a relatively large lake.

[RobotDoctor]

I've read every post in this, now, 22-page thread. Some of the supposed "damning" evidence against Scotty Cameron simply doesn't make sense to me.

 

For example, WHY would someone weld over the A.B. initials on a tour putter and reissue it as something else? And WHY is that such a big deal?

 

The A.B could be initials for Aaron Baddeley and that would make the putter most likely a tour used putter and be worth a lot. Rewelding the initials then re-issuing the putter would remove the association to Baddeley reducing the price. The only reason to do this is either the owner asked to do this or to devalue the putter because of who owned it. Of course this could be a way to reduce the value of the piece because of who owns it, too. Since I do not know of the reason I will leave it at that.

 

Similarly, why WOULDN'T someone re-do a putter that mistakenly had a 'Y' added? If this was a mistake, and it was rectified where the mistake took place, why wouldn't is be considered authentic?

 

This is a HUGE faux pas or a blatant attempt to screw with the owner of a putter. By adding a Y this putter is marred. Cameron used SCOTT for handmade putters and these command the most money in the collector's market. Handmade putters were supposed to be done by Cameron himself and used to be done with his personal mill in his garage (from what I know). These could be heads that were done somewhere else but in any case these were heads that had a lot of hours by Cameron himself, not some CNC machine or anyone else. Handmades are generally in the high 4 figures to low 5 figures in value. Stamping the Y associates this putter as a custom, not handmade and will reduce the price significantly. Rewelding the Y then re-facing the putter makes this putter a refinished putter, again losing significant value. This "error" cost the owner thousands of dollars and is not right.

 

And lastly, WHY is it so hard to believe that only one mini was stamped, eg. 1 of 5?

 

I can accept this and believe this was done.

 

I understand there are a number of people who may not agree with some of Titleist's or Scottty Cameron's business practices, but why are certain other instances that seem totally reasonable/sensible held up as devious or misleading practices? It seems there is a clear bias on both sides.

 

Full disclosure: I'm a member at CameronCollector.com but a very small fish in a relatively large lake.

 

Ask the owner of a grip company somewhere in the US how he feels about Cameron's business practices then let us know.

 

________________________________________________________________________________

 

 

For what it's worth, search RobotDoctor at TCC and see the posts (1,600+) that I made and see how supportive I had been towards Cameron. Even in the past year I have been supportive but I know some things that the administrator and moderators do not want people to know. One thing I do not like about TCC is the secrecy of certain issues that should be made public. Certain questions should be asked and answered in public forums, just like this one. Here is an example of the stealth nature that is nurtured at TCC. This is a partial post to get to the point.

 

.... But there are other "personal matters" that will not get answered. If you have a concern about posting a question on the site, send it to one of the Mods first and we can help you.

 

Greg

 

http://www.cameroncollector.com/forum/inde...,103210.65.html

 

He is saying that ask the tough questions to the moderators and they will take care of it. If the question is too harsh or casts a bad light then they can sweep it under the rug. If the question is too harsh I would not be surprised that he bans you. I am all but certain he is who banned me because I said I wanted to see an "Inspired by T.P. Mills" putter. Because of this culture I am glad I am not a member there.

[WWW3]

WOW! When I joined GolfWRX, and later The Cameron Club, I had no idea that there was so much contentiousness between the two. Actually, I had read that BombSquad was the tough crowd to stay away from. I joined anyway. However, I have never seen on BombSquad a thread as vicious as this one. I think now that GolfWRX is the new tough guy in town. The Cameron Club always seemed much more calm. However, TCC must have done something really bad to you to create such animosity. Anything specific?

[stage1350]

WOW! When I joined GolfWRX, and later The Cameron Club, I had no idea that there was so much contentiousness between the two. Actually, I had read that BombSquad was the tough crowd to stay away from. I joined anyway. However, I have never seen on BombSquad a thread as vicious as this one. I think now that GolfWRX is the new tough guy in town. The Cameron Club always seemed much more calm. However, TCC must have done something really bad to you to create such animosity. Anything specific?

 

And you never will see a thread as "vicious" as this on TCC or Bombsquad. The moderating team at both sites will not allow any discussion or controversy that may impact sales, "values", or "investments."

 

If you take the time to read Sam's post above, you have a prime example of why people are not fond of TCC. He posts a tongue in cheek comment and is banned. Not warned, not suspended, but outright banned. Why would he harbor anything but animosity to a place that treats you like that?

 

As for "tough guy" status, your previous post leads me to believe that you are only looking for positive posts. If that is the case, TCC and BSG are for you. You will never hear a negative word about their product...ever. They won't allow it to happen. And the reason that this place may seem a little more lively is that sometimes you need to truthfully say that a clubhead/shaft/grip/etc. just plain sucks. Or that customer service from company XXX is crap. Or if you are a high spin player, don't spend your money on XXX driver.

 

Criticism doesn't have to be negative. I read reviews of about a dozen gentlemen on this site who have swing characteristics similar to my own. When they tell me a club/shaft works for them, I may want to consider it. If they tell me that a shaft is horrible with their swing, it's still a good thing. They just saved me from spending money on a shaft that probably wouldn't work for me either.

 

Sometimes, the truth hurts. But living in a house of cards is just as dangerous when reality finally comes knocking at your door.

[TM golf guy]

Ask the owner of a grip company somewhere in the US how he feels about Cameron's business practices then let us know.

 

I had the privilege to spend some time chatting with the owner of that grip company. Very nice guy, and refused to say anything bad about Cameron. He briefly explained what happened with the two companies and simply said "I'll let you form your own opinion on the matter". And I did. I have a stock pile of grips from that company LOL.

[psd]

Thank you RobotDoctor. I had missed the reference to "hand made" on the one putter in question. The A.B. (Andy Bean, Aaron Baddeley, Alec Baldwin :cheesy: ) is still rather odd, but difficult to determine whether it was done for valuation purposes.

 

I have been at TCC for over a year. I understand why they manage their site the way they do and accept that premise. IBTPM is actually pretty funny, but I guess zero tolerance was the rule in that case. Thanks again for the insight.

[RobotDoctor]

WOW! When I joined GolfWRX, and later The Cameron Club, I had no idea that there was so much contentiousness between the two. Actually, I had read that BombSquad was the tough crowd to stay away from. I joined anyway. However, I have never seen on BombSquad a thread as vicious as this one. I think now that GolfWRX is the new tough guy in town. The Cameron Club always seemed much more calm. However, TCC must have done something really bad to you to create such animosity. Anything specific?

 

This thread has had its moments, I can agree with that. However, there is much that people are not aware of.

 

I will say that Cameron was most kind to donate his time in refinishing a couple of putters a couple of years ago for a couple of kids that were nominated as "Cameron Kids" and a video was produces. That was a tremendous, and selfless, act of kindness. The following thread made me proud to be a member of TCC and appreciate Cameron.

 

http://www.cameroncollector.com/forum/inde...,103210.65.html

 

Then there is the other side. This thread is discussing a specific putter and the refusal of Cameron fans to acknowledge that more putters, of an extremely rare putter, existed. To acknowledge this might reduce the value of the putter and that is not what Cameron or the high roller collectors are willing to do. I have seen friendships discarded by Cameron collectors because of the refusal of acknowledging certain things (try NASA head cover reissue for example). When people find out the truth of the business side of Cameron then their perception changes. This is the side that disturbs me and why I chose the path I took.

 

There is where the division between Cameron fans and the rest of putter fans. Of course when people question Cameron issues, we are quickly branded Cameron Haters when most of us are not. However, instead of opening a constructive dialog to persuade the rest of the putter fan group to accept the stance from the Cameron camp, mud is slung and generally no substantive facts are offered. This is why there is a division. You will never see this side from TCC. If you think TCC is such a calm place then ask an uncomfortable question. Here are a few to ask:

 

1) There is a rumor that the NASA head cover was reintroduced after the initial run. Is this true?

2) Is the Rising Sun engraving on the Inspired by Ryuji Imada putter copied from David Mills' sun engraving?

3) Were any putters cast or made out of the United States then imported back in and finished in the US?

 

Try asking these questions, or some other that is uncomfortable, and see how calm your experience at TCC is. With GolfWRX or PT you can ask these questions on any board, to anyone, at any time.

 

As my buddy Forrest Gump says, "And that is all I have to say about that."