Has golf technology peaked?

[fpyle3]

I'm interested to hear other members' thoughts on this, but the more "new" equipment I play, the more I'm convinced that we've seen the greatest advancements in technology that we're going to see. Just looking at equipment in general:

 

Drivers - can't get any bigger than 460 cc, can't go any higher than a .830 COR. Manufacturers have done a pretty good job of tweaking the aerodynamics, and shafts have come a long way over the past couple of years. But where else is there to go with drivers? The movable weight, replaceable shaft, etc. drivers don't feel as solid to me, but this may be in my head...

 

Fairway woods - none of the fairway woods I've bought, gamed, and later sold this season (R9 TP, Cally Diablo Edge Tour, among others) have been able to replace my NP-99. The only fairway wood that comes close is an old v-steel that still gets quite a bit of play.

 

Hybrids - it's good to see manufacturers are offering hybrids with an open face angle (i.e. Nike Victory Red), as older hybrids have been hook machines in my hands, but these clubs have not changed much over the past couple of seasons.

 

Irons - there have been some pretty good sets released over the past couple of seasons (Cally x forged 2009 and TM Tour Preferred come to mind), but again, the advancements year to year are pretty minimal.

 

Wedges - not a ton of difference between the old Cleveland 588s and the newer Vokeys, etc. save for finish and grooves, but the new groove rule should limit any major groove advancements.

 

Putters - what else can you say...find one that you like and stick with it!

 

Golf balls - the Pro V1 has been around for nearly 10 years. In my opinion there is still nothing better than the Pro V1x.

 

What do you all think will be the next step in golf equipment? Are we seeing the best right now?

[lightningbolt444]

I think we have seen big advancements in shafts so far but I still think that is where we are going to see the biggest jump in technology in the next decade.

[Swingie]

yup

[Doc420]

Peaked years ago.

[tonster]

For the better player yes. More shaft options are out which is nice and getting fitted for everything from driver to ball is more important than ever. FWIW, I do think blades (VRs, Protos, etc.) are much more forgiving than their counterparts from a couple years ago.

For the the high handicapper and/or weekend hack, GI irons, chippers, putter inserts, are continuously improving where they are making this game less frustrating.

[anth]

Technology has almost peaked. Customization is what will flourish over the next decade.

[Splitter]

Plenty more places to go.

5-10 years ago did you:

Think Hybrids would really catch on?
Think there would be an all hybrid set (that actually sold)?
Think chippers would be popular (again)
Think you could adjust weights in drivers?
Think you could swap out shafts with a wrench?
Think you could adjust driver face angle in 3 dimensions?
Think a ball hit on the toe could go within yards of a ball hit in the sweet spot?
Think that *most* ball manufacturers would give the prov1 a run for it's money?
Think that a toaster on a stick would become popular.
Think that Tiger would give up his Scotty for even a day? ;-)

Even the belittled wedge has given us more options at a consumer price point. That in itself is advancement.

That stuff is just off the top of my head. The BIG stuff that's easy to see and know about. I'm not even talking about materials and composites, etc... All in a measly 5-10 years time.

Why do we think we're so special that we get to see technology peak now?

I think the problem is that the American golfer has become so spoiled with everything, much less golf clubs, that we don't appreciate the steps that have been taken and in doing so have forgotten how to dream about what could be next. Hopefully the guys that get paid to do so are still at it.

[BlkNGld]

The problem with claiming things have peaked is that it's based on what we see as the current technology at the time.

What really drives the innovations are changes in materials science that allows materials (or combinations) to be used in clubs that allow doing things that had not been possible.

Many years ago, shafts were only made of wood. Then someone figured out how to make them in steel affordably.

Investment casting let Karsten Solheim do perimeter weighting on a large scale.

Because woods were made out of wood, they were limited in how large they could get. Hollow steel changed that and allowed resdistribution of weight. Then titanium changed that. Size is limited but advances in thinness allow greater weight redistribution.

You see the same things going on in all sports... rules aren't very good at anticipating changes in technology which change the nature of the game.

I think there will be further advances that allow greater and easier customization in the store, and techologies that correct for our swing faults that we haven't even begun to consider that will give the rule making bodies headaches.

[Obsessotron]

I am sure that there will be advancements in the future, but for every technological breakthrough (Hybrids) there are 60 gimmicks (Adjustable weights).

The new brand name shaft craze is a great way for manufacturers to feel as if there is real value added to their products and drive sales, but I honestly don't see enough noticeable differences in performance to feel as if shaft advancements will be game changing for the average player who is trying his/her best to hit the ball squarely on the club face and not slice every shot.

I played stock, manufacturer spec shafts (even knock off shaft/driver head combos) in all of my clubs for a very long time and didn't really feel as if anything other than stiffness affected my game very much.

[dcaput02]

Technology is artificially limited by the USGA and R&A. Without limitations equipment would be significantly better at hitting a ball as straight and far as possible. In order to see significant improvement the governing bodies would need to relax the rules on balls and/or clubs.

[tbowles411]

IMO, yes for pros really. Now you even seeing pros go backwards in technology. For example, we watched many pros go back to the "old" Ping Rapture V2 because it spins less than any head out there. Put a lower spin ball and a lower spin shaft, you get straighter, more controlled flight. Just one example, but yes, I do agree. For us hacks, no. They are constantly trying to make the game more accessible and easier to get the ball in the air more often.

[hoganfan924]

The heyday of golf technology is behind us due to the USGA limits on initial ball speed, COR, head volume, MOI and dimensions, but there will always be technological advancements and progress in other areas; things like:

variable spin on balls (less with driver, more with wedges)
expansion of effective sweet spot and launch/spin optimization from hits all over the clubface
clubhead aerodynamics
customization/fitting/adjustability

[moneiljr824]

not yet...somebody already mentioned shafts improving as well as things such as blades being way more forgiving than in previous years

[SpinMill75]

Come on guys, you never know what new invention Jack Hamm might come up with......

To be serious though, I think the USGA / R&A has put the brakes on things going too far with technology. I think we will continue to see innovations in club design, shafts, grooves, etc. But IMO, the biggest spotlight will be on the ball. With the TM Penta out now, who knows what the future holds?

[kencanuck]

I have wondered this myself but the problem is that we are looking forward from our current framework...I agree with the above poster that said there may be new materials right around the corner that changes the "game" so to speak...

Having said that I think AN answer maybe "yes" given what we know right now. It does seems like we are changing things on the margin rather than revolutionary changes...

Ken

[Guest]

I'm fairly involved in materials sciences and can think of many ways clubs could advance through use of cutting edge materials. I wouldn't be surprised if soon we seen drivers with non-metallic faces - a carbon nano-tube face for example. There are also countless thermoplastics with higher tensile strength and lower density than metals like titanium, they can also be engineered to have much higher energy transfer = hotter face and greater ability to distribute weight where the designer wants it. Some shaft makers are already using nano-tubes btw.

[caseyc1]

[quote name='Obsessotron' timestamp='1279897198' post='2594473']
I am sure that there will be advancements in the future, but for every technological breakthrough (Hybrids) there are 60 gimmicks (Adjustable weights).

The new brand name shaft craze is a great way for manufacturers to feel as if there is real value added to their products and drive sales, but I honestly don't see enough noticeable differences in performance to feel as if shaft advancements will be game changing for the average player who is trying his/her best to hit the ball squarely on the club face and not slice every shot.

I played stock, manufacturer spec shafts (even knock off shaft/driver head combos) in all of my clubs for a very long time and didn't really feel as if anything other than stiffness affected my game very much.
[/quote]

So you think adjustable weights is a gimmick? You obviously have never played with a driver that has them and if you did you really didnt know how to use it if you think its a gimmick:busted2:

[swbyps]

No it hasnt. Just like any other technology, engineers will continue to find ways to improve it. Even though there are limits in place, advancements in materials will still make it possible to get more performance from the established limits. I know this, the technology needs to be limited somehow. The existing courses are in danger of becoming obsolete already as it is.

[professor_doom]

I would say that the "capacity" of technology has peaked, in that, were you to go to a good fitter with a decent budget, the clubs you walk out with today will be as good as the clubs you would walk out with several years from now.

Aside from balls, drivers, grooves and shafts, technology for high-level players peaked years ago. Tiger and AK bag a 380cc driver. The top two players in the world play blade irons that could have existed 20 years ago--Tiger's blades are not dissimilar to the Mizunos he played as an amateur, and Phil's Callway's look a lot like the '94 Hogan Apex channel-back irons (which themselves are rumored to be based on an even older design that was never released). McDowell won the U.S. Open with an FT-3 that you could buy on ebay for fifty bucks. The most popular iron shaft is still the Dynamic Gold (released in 1980), which itself is very similar to the Dynamic--released in 1942. I'll admit that composite iron shafts like Aerotech might gain some ground, but steel will probably always lead by a wide margin.

As far as putters go, the idea has always been and will always be to simply find one that works for you. Tiger dumped the new polymer (polymer: a fancy word for plastic) technology for round 4 of the open to go back to the stick he knows and loves. Very old Ping products--putters, for sure, but also irons and wedges--are still a staple on tour. In my estimation, the 1948 Bullseye is still a fine putter, and I am sure there are guys on tour--Pavin, for one--who would agree with me.

Things like movable weight technology, adjustable faces, and especially the Cleveland Niblick strike me as gimmicks, but may help hackers.

I think the game might continue to get more accessible for duffers. Bigger sweet spots, ever-lower COG in irons, better launch conditions in woods. More distance for slower swing speeds. But single-digit players and especially pros have little to gain from any further advancements. But better players, who are more concerned with accuracy and feel than forgiveness and "breaking the 250 barrier" on drives, will stand little to gain from any new developments.

Lastly, I'd like to see the idea of "matched sets" die. I think most players could benefit from combination sets--even Tiger played a mixed set of Mizunos until he signed with Titleist, and his subsequent clubs have all been very similar to Only true beginners really need forgiveness or game-improvement features in, say, an 8 iron, while . The idea that each clubhead from the long irons to the pitching wedge should look similar has, in my opinion, been a big factor in the popularity of hybrids--better players looking for accuracy in the short and mid irons go with blade or "player's cavity" models, only to find the long irons are difficult. I'm convinced that a set comprising game improvement irons through the 4 iron, "player's cavity" in 5-7 iron, and blade 8-pw would fit the needs of a very large portion of golfers. Tomorrow's clubs won't necessarily be any better; they'll just fit players better.

[caseyc1]

if movable weights is for hackers than what do you call the PGA Tour Players who use them in their drivers? I agree chippers are useless but FCT and MWT is far from a gimmick or for hackers.

[Obsessotron]

[quote name='caseyc1' timestamp='1279900570' post='2594598']
So you think adjustable weights is a gimmick? You obviously have never played with a driver that has them and if you did you really didnt know how to use it if you think its a gimmick:busted2:
[/quote]

I played the original R7 425cc for about a season and while I loved the driver, I honestly didn't see enough of a change in ball flight between the settings to determine it as being a breakthrough. It's an interesting concept and I could definitely see a tour player using them to his/her advantage for a repeatable swing, but I think we could both agree it doesn't make the game any easier for your average 20 capper.

[professor_doom]

I doubt pros play MWT clubs specifically because of the weights--it probably has more to do with the simple fact that a lot of great drivers, like the R7 and R9, have been made with removable weights.

Now, if I was playing a course that definitely favored a certain shot type--Augusta and the draw, for example--I would consider a driver with a draw bias or movable weight/face control technology. If I was fighting a slice or a hook, it would be useful, too. If I played a certain shot type the vast majority of the time--Mickelson and his power fade, for example, it might help with consistency. Personally, I prefer a fade, but I'll draw the ball at least a quarter of the time, and I'd rather not have a club working against me on those shots. I don't usually have a problem getting my driver (9.5* loft, 1* open, neutral bias) to fade or draw on command. If circumstances dictate that the middle-of-the-road specifications on my driver are less than ideal--well, those are the sort of circumstances that dictate that playing a fairway wood or long iron might be more prudent to begin with.

[Slice]

the golf technology is only limited by the rules that regulate this game. Take that away, and the you are opening the flood gate of innovation.

[quote name='fpyle3' timestamp='1279858889' post='2593991']
I'm interested to hear other members' thoughts on this, but the more "new" equipment I play, the more I'm convinced that we've seen the greatest advancements in technology that we're going to see. Just looking at equipment in general:

Drivers - can't get any bigger than 460 cc, can't go any higher than a .830 COR. Manufacturers have done a pretty good job of tweaking the aerodynamics, and shafts have come a long way over the past couple of years. But where else is there to go with drivers? The movable weight, replaceable shaft, etc. drivers don't feel as solid to me, but this may be in my head...

Fairway woods - none of the fairway woods I've bought, gamed, and later sold this season (R9 TP, Cally Diablo Edge Tour, among others) have been able to replace my NP-99. The only fairway wood that comes close is an old v-steel that still gets quite a bit of play.

Hybrids - it's good to see manufacturers are offering hybrids with an open face angle (i.e. Nike Victory Red), as older hybrids have been hook machines in my hands, but these clubs have not changed much over the past couple of seasons.

Irons - there have been some pretty good sets released over the past couple of seasons (Cally x forged 2009 and TM Tour Preferred come to mind), but again, the advancements year to year are pretty minimal.

Wedges - not a ton of difference between the old Cleveland 588s and the newer Vokeys, etc. save for finish and grooves, but the new groove rule should limit any major groove advancements.

Putters - what else can you say...find one that you like and stick with it!

Golf balls - the Pro V1 has been around for nearly 10 years. In my opinion there is still nothing better than the Pro V1x.

What do you all think will be the next step in golf equipment? Are we seeing the best right now?
[/quote]

[dplasters]

[quote name='R_Scott7' timestamp='1279899772' post='2594577']
I'm fairly involved in materials sciences and can think of many ways clubs could advance through use of cutting edge materials. I wouldn't be surprised if soon we seen drivers with non-metallic faces - a carbon nano-tube face for example. There are also countless thermoplastics with higher tensile strength and lower density than metals like titanium, they can also be engineered to have much higher energy transfer = hotter face and greater ability to distribute weight where the designer wants it. Some shaft makers are already using nano-tubes btw.
[/quote]

that would break the rules of golf. the lighter materials may allow more perimeter weighting for 'forgiveness'. but hotter faces are out.

[Pepperturbo]

Golf technology is no different then all other technologies. Every technology reaches a point where there can't be any dramatic changes. Change is relegated to cosmetic changes until such time as product design uncovers something that is cutting edge.

[SMGolfer]

[quote name='BlkNGld' timestamp='1279896559' post='2594452']
The problem with claiming things have peaked is that it's based on what we see as the current technology at the time.

W[b]hat really drives the innovations are changes in materials science that allows materials (or combinations) to be used in clubs that allow doing things that had not been possible.[/b]

Many years ago, shafts were only made of wood. Then someone figured out how to make them in steel affordably.

Investment casting let Karsten Solheim do perimeter weighting on a large scale.

Because woods were made out of wood, they were limited in how large they could get. Hollow steel changed that and allowed resdistribution of weight. Then titanium changed that. Size is limited but advances in thinness allow greater weight redistribution.

You see the same things going on in all sports... rules aren't very good at anticipating changes in technology which change the nature of the game.

I think there will be further advances that allow greater and easier customization in the store, and techologies that correct for our swing faults that we haven't even begun to consider that will give the rule making bodies headaches.
[/quote]

I couldn't agree with you more with part of your statement, it is the materials. Whether is now or near future, what will replace titanium faced drivers? What new metal is going to make the next hot driver, irons, or wedges that will be allowed by the governing body of golf.

[stage1350]

There is plenty of innovation if the USGA doesn't keep trying to overregulate the game. They are listening to idiots and morons with catch phrases like "rollback" and "Pizza Hut Masters."

If everyone has access to the technology, why does it need to be regulated? It's just like the course. Everyone plays the same course.

[#1Ballin]

[quote name='hoganfan924' timestamp='1279898721' post='2594534']
The heyday of golf technology is behind us due to the USGA limits on initial ball speed, COR, head volume, MOI and dimensions, but there will always be technological advancements and progress in other areas; things like:

variable spin on balls (less with driver, more with wedges)
expansion of effective sweet spot and launch/spin optimization from hits all over the clubface
clubhead aerodynamics
customization/fitting/adjustability
[/quote]
this is it.

you have your answer.

petition the USGA to lift the limits. The game is still hard....even for the pros.

[caseyc1]

[quote name='Obsessotron' timestamp='1279914666' post='2595056']
[quote name='caseyc1' timestamp='1279900570' post='2594598']
So you think adjustable weights is a gimmick? You obviously have never played with a driver that has them and if you did you really didnt know how to use it if you think its a gimmick:busted2:
[/quote]

I played the original R7 425cc for about a season and while I loved the driver, I honestly didn't see enough of a change in ball flight between the settings to determine it as being a breakthrough. It's an interesting concept and I could definitely see a tour player using them to his/her advantage for a repeatable swing, but I think we could both agree it doesn't make the game any easier for your average 20 capper.
[/quote]

In the Supertri for me it has helped a ton with getting the spin and ballflight down where i want it plus taking away my slice i hit every once in awhile and now hit nice draws, agree a 20 capper wouldnt see the best results with it but it does help.

I dont think tour players play it just for the weights but they all use the weights to get the driver set up perfect for them, i have seen alot of videos of them adjusting the weights on a Trackman to get the spin and trajectory down to where they want it

[professor_doom]

We've come to the point where drivers are built the same way as aircraft. They're designed on computers, tested in wind tunnels, fabricated precisely using advanced welding and bonding technologies, and built out of titanium, aluminum, high-strength steels, and carbon fiber. A driver is a lot like an aircraft, in that it should be a light, thin-walled monocoque capable of handling immense stresses (due to pressure and loading in aircraft and due to impact in clubs), offering low air resistance.

Perhaps we can say that innovation in golf parallels innovation in aircraft, because of these underlying similarities. And the majority of improvements in aircraft recently have stemmed from improved materials, with improved aerodynamics coming second. If you want proof that today's cutting edge designs will be very similar to what the future holds, look at the fact that older airframe designs, like the 747 and the B-52, are still extremely effective today. Of course, because there's more money in aerospace than in golf, aerospace designs were optimized decades earlier. Golf technology has only reached a parallel level of sophistication in the past half decade.

The contribution of aerodynamics will be minimal at best. Golf clubs never get close to 150 mph. At these low speeds, aerodynamics are very well understood. There is nothing complicated; there are no compressibility effects. And we are not even concerned about lift--just minimizing drag. We won't see aerodynamic advances in golf clubs to the same degree that winglets and supercritical airfoils and computerized stability systems revolutionized aircraft. We could, however, see a percent or two increase in clubhead speed. That's one advance that will help everyone. Advances in materials will give us better strength/weight ratios, which will give designers more "discretionary weight," helping them optimize launch and increase MOI. However, this increase will probably be small in contrast to the increases that have already come from simply increasing the size of the clubhead. Either way, for good players with consistent swings who have already optimized their drivers to their swings, the effect will be minimal. Of course, this will mean that golf will become more accessible to beginners, and, hopefully, that the pace of play will improve. I wouldn't be surprised if feel gets better for all levels of players. These are all positive outcomes, and I hope to see them soon.

Hopefully, the USGA will develop regulations that prevent balls from getting any longer. Golf is hard and always will be, but the professional game has become too easy to be exciting. The 300-yard drive used to be a rare, majestic occurrence; now it's almost expected of professionals, since even run-of-the-mill amateurs can hit it 300 or more on a regular basis. However, I'd be all for a ball with a built-in locator--it would certainly save me a ton.