um... diamana back in the driver for tiger

[DemolitionMan]

I think it might just be that the Butch/Tiger/Scott swing looks and preforms incredible.

 

And Adam Scott is doing how this year? Last I remember is a 0 under the win column. Adam doesn't seem to able to putt any better than Tiger at this point (but that has always been his weakness) Think the king Aussie appears to be Mr. Ogilvy (2 pretty good wins)

 

The point is still valid to me. Pre-Butch TW had a great ballstriking week and a great putting week while lapping the field at Augusta '97. Post-Butch, sure he can win, that's obvious, but the consistency is so off it's not even comparable.

 

We all know putting is key, but what does not get talked about enough is how much your putting improves when the rest of your game is clicking. The game is a lot easier when you find fairways which allows you to hit closer approach shots and that takes pressure off your putting. When Driver is all over the place and your irons lack control, who cares how well you putt, you are not winning.

 

Tiger is not going to go from 32 putts to 26 putts by putting better and draining more 20 footers. Besides, he even said himself he was rolling it well today, but again, he's not hitting it close enough to give him legitimate chances over and over at birdie.

 

When he starts putting it inside 15 ft on a consistent basis then we'll see scores in the 60s. But first he has to find more fairways and to do that a better swing than the Hank Haney model.

 

Yes I know, I don't play professional golf, I'm not TW, I'm just a critic, blah, blah, blah. So what! I witnessed history in golf from 1999-2001. I saw a swing that looked damn near perfect. I saw approach shots all over pins and putts falling. Now I see a weird looking finish for such an athletic person, I see irons going all over the place, and I see confusion. Maybe I got it wrong, but for now, stats, wins, performance, call it whatever, from years past compared to today - it's like watching a totally different golfer and one that is not all that dominant.

[jeffreyjenkins]

i just want to know how the mechanics of the two different swings are that different.....i am curious and dont know the big differences....anybody got any answers.....i didnt really play much golf before he started the hank haney thing???

[DemolitionMan]

I'm short on time right now, but in a nutshell, Butch Harmon TW more upright, definitive two-plane swing. Do an internet search of Adam Scotty swing sequences, TW's was identical. Now, Hank Haney school is a one-plane swing, however there is serious debate as to whether or not there really is a one-plane swing as demonstrated by Hank Haney cohort Jim Hardy. Regardless, there is a definitive difference between the two swings and you can read about it here:

 

http://www.golfdigest.com/instruction/inde...wingplane1.html

[sandy]

Everyone is forgetting about why tiger has had two knee surgeries at such a young age. Partially due to the old swing. New swing does not place that stress on his knee--no longer snaps his left knee straight which was a part of the old swing.

[powaygolfer]

exactly. this swing change is meant to carry him through his late 30's, easier on his body. Its just as jack did later in his days. Also, Tiger has been having a lot of problems with the block, that is almost directly attributed to the flatter plane. He is laying it flatter at the top and when he brings it down, he gets stuck inside and cant turn his hands over quick enough.

[hacker17]

But the swing isn't his main problem anymore. He keeps leaving putts short so maybe he should switch putters and move to a nice Scotty Cameron Phantom Futura.

[MAJYk]

The day Tiger leaves his Newport will be the day I win the U.S. Open........(P.S. Tiger, dont rush it, I'm a little young to be winning the U.S. Open)

[hacker17]

You can't be serious. If Tiger doesn't start putting better I could easily see him switching putters by the end of the season.

[Ducky]

He keeps leaving putts short so maybe he should switch putters and move to a nice Scotty Cameron Phantom Futura.

If anything I would have thought he would be switching to one of Nike's soon-to-be-released putters.

[ferrispgm]

Let's please not turn this into another haney/tiger bashing thread. Tiger's prob is not his swing with the irons, he is hitting quality shots into the greens most of the time. When you are tied for last in the field in putting, you really can't expect to place too well.

[IHFN]

Everyone is forgetting about why tiger has had two knee surgeries at such a young age. Partially due to the old swing. New swing does not place that stress on his knee--no longer snaps his left knee straight which was a part of the old swing.

 

 

I have to think that this is a cop-out. He swings faster, harder, and snappier now than he ever did. Watch his tempo from even 97 and watch it now. You hardly ever saw his shaft flex at the top of his swing in 97. Now, it is flexed an extreme amount on almost every shot.

[seis]

Maybe Tiger's problem is too much time in the gym...the same thing that happened to Duval. The more buffed you are the more likely you are going to influence your swing in a negative way from you pre-buffed days. I speak from experience. Went back to weight training four years ago. I hit the ball farther than ever but with less accuracy, especially with the mid irons.

[creecool]

Everyone is overblowing this way too much imop .Tiger is not putting poorly,he was all around the hole yesterday,just couldn't get anything to drop.A few putts drop his way,and this discussion will be totally moot.Like Butch Harmon said,he will find a way to get the ball in the hole,he just needs to stop pressing and let it happen. :cheesy:

[ferrispgm]

Yes, but in Tiger's old swing he used to snap his left knee on the downswing, it even said so in his book. Now his knee doesn't snap and therefore he can go at it harder w/o hurting it.

[Konklifer]

-3 through five today.

[sandy]

Everyone is forgetting about why tiger has had two knee surgeries at such a young age. Partially due to the old swing. New swing does not place that stress on his knee--no longer snaps his left knee straight which was a part of the old swing.

 

 

I have to think that this is a cop-out. He swings faster, harder, and snappier now than he ever did. Watch his tempo from even 97 and watch it now. You hardly ever saw his shaft flex at the top of his swing in 97. Now, it is flexed an extreme amount on almost every shot.

 

I don't call two knee surgerys a cop out. He and several orthapedic surgeons have commented on what contributed to those surgerys. Tiger actually said the old swing was hard on his knees and was part of the reason he switched to the new swing. Snapping the knee straight has nothing to do with how much the shaft is flexed at the top of his swing. YIKES.

[IHFN]

Everyone is forgetting about why tiger has had two knee surgeries at such a young age. Partially due to the old swing. New swing does not place that stress on his knee--no longer snaps his left knee straight which was a part of the old swing.

 

 

I have to think that this is a cop-out. He swings faster, harder, and snappier now than he ever did. Watch his tempo from even 97 and watch it now. You hardly ever saw his shaft flex at the top of his swing in 97. Now, it is flexed an extreme amount on almost every shot.

 

I don't call two knee surgerys a cop out. He and several orthapedic surgeons have commented on what contributed to those surgerys. Tiger actually said the old swing was hard on his knees and was part of the reason he switched to the new swing. Snapping the knee straight has nothing to do with how much the shaft is flexed at the top of his swing. YIKES.

 

 

I'm not saying that his knee bending straight had something to do with shaft flex at the top of his swing. I read it now and it kind of comes across that way. Sorry, I didn't mean for it to be like that...

 

 

Yes, he has had surgery. Yes, he has said that his knee was one of the reasons that he switched. BUT, he still snaps that thing like crazy. Is it less snapping? possibly. I just have an extremely hard time believing that someone is going to tell the worlds greatest player who is absolutely killing everybody that he needs to stop snapping his knee, or else when he is in his 40's he will have serious problems. If someone had told me that I would have laughed at them, gone out, won 10 of the next 14 majors with that swing. Not only that, I've heard Tiger say different things on why he changed his swing. He has said, "because he wants to get better". Then an article comes out saying, "my knee was bad, I had to change.". Then in a press conference he says, "I wanted to get better, I'm always trying to get better, this was the way to get better", with no mention of his knee. :cheesy:

 

 

Also, the major snapping problem he had was just with his driver. He did not do it much with his irons, which is the reason he was soo good at distance control back then. Something he is horrible with now...

 

Could I be completely wrong? yeah, absolutely. But this is my opinion after watching a lot of old footage and comparing it to now... It just all confuses me. There are plenty of ways to still have a amazing consistent swing without snapping the knee...

[DemolitionMan]

Let's please not turn this into another haney/tiger bashing thread. Tiger's prob is not his swing with the irons, he is hitting quality shots into the greens most of the time. When you are tied for last in the field in putting, you really can't expect to place too well.

 

 

It's not bashing when there is plenty of evidence to support differing opinions. Haney should be held accountable for the confusion he contributes to the golf world.

 

It's a discussion forum, different, respectful opinions are allowed; it's what drives this community.

 

Bottom line is TW's swing is very different, even this year it shows changes from one tournament to the next. It's nowhere near as clean as it was under Butch Harmon.

 

TW is also very stubborn, so I don't ever expect him to go back to Butch and it's not like I am wishing for it. But eventually, I can see this experiment fading away and he slowly gets back to his old swing. With this current mess, he will not catch Jack for 18 majors unless they step up the St. Andrews rotation in the Open. With this swing we are not going to see him dismantle a US Open setup at Pebble Beach, get the USGA in a tizzy so they go crazy with Bethpage, and then TW wins that too. Nope, with this swing we see a few wins a year, maybe a major mixed in there, and one helluva an imagination for the recovery and short game.

 

Golf Digest should pay attention. Don't show me how Tiger sets up to hit a driver to find fariways, that's a lie. Show me a Tiger tip on how to hit out of the trees low hooking bullets or low ground fades; that's more realistic.

[hacker17]

Everyone is forgetting about why tiger has had two knee surgeries at such a young age. Partially due to the old swing. New swing does not place that stress on his knee--no longer snaps his left knee straight which was a part of the old swing.

 

 

I have to think that this is a cop-out. He swings faster, harder, and snappier now than he ever did. Watch his tempo from even 97 and watch it now. You hardly ever saw his shaft flex at the top of his swing in 97. Now, it is flexed an extreme amount on almost every shot.

 

Of course his shaft flexes more it's a grapite shaft instead of a steel shaft now in his driver.

[toddeaton]

It seems like he's pressing too much. But I'm glad to see the bi-matrix out of the bag, maybe if he starting using the same ugly cattle-brander putter michelle wie uses he can place top 5 with his B game?

[hacker17]

Let's please not turn this into another haney/tiger bashing thread. Tiger's prob is not his swing with the irons, he is hitting quality shots into the greens most of the time. When you are tied for last in the field in putting, you really can't expect to place too well.

 

 

It's not bashing when there is plenty of evidence to support differing opinions. Haney should be held accountable for the confusion he contributes to the golf world.

 

It's a discussion forum, different, respectful opinions are allowed; it's what drives this community.

 

Bottom line is TW's swing is very different, even this year it shows changes from one tournament to the next. It's nowhere near as clean as it was under Butch Harmon.

 

TW is also very stubborn, so I don't ever expect him to go back to Butch and it's not like I am wishing for it. But eventually, I can see this experiment fading away and he slowly gets back to his old swing. With this current mess, he will not catch Jack for 18 majors unless they step up the St. Andrews rotation in the Open. With this swing we are not going to see him dismantle a US Open setup at Pebble Beach, get the USGA in a tizzy so they go crazy with Bethpage, and then TW wins that too. Nope, with this swing we see a few wins a year, maybe a major mixed in there, and one helluva an imagination for the recovery and short game.

 

Golf Digest should pay attention. Don't show me how Tiger sets up to hit a driver to find fariways, that's a lie. Show me a Tiger tip on how to hit out of the trees low hooking bullets or low ground fades; that's more realistic.

 

What? A few wins a year? A major mixed in there? Were you paying any attention to him last year? His worst finish in a major last year was T4 and with the exception of missing the cut at this year's US Open he's been able to stay competitive ever since he got the Hank Haney swing working for him. So honestly what's wrong with "this swing"?

[JKB]

That's also the SQ tour, not the max. I wonder if this is a picture from a while ago?

 

This also has the SQ on the back of the driver it is a tour version of the sasquatch

[IHFN]

Let's please not turn this into another haney/tiger bashing thread. Tiger's prob is not his swing with the irons, he is hitting quality shots into the greens most of the time. When you are tied for last in the field in putting, you really can't expect to place too well.

 

 

It's not bashing when there is plenty of evidence to support differing opinions. Haney should be held accountable for the confusion he contributes to the golf world.

 

It's a discussion forum, different, respectful opinions are allowed; it's what drives this community.

 

Bottom line is TW's swing is very different, even this year it shows changes from one tournament to the next. It's nowhere near as clean as it was under Butch Harmon.

 

TW is also very stubborn, so I don't ever expect him to go back to Butch and it's not like I am wishing for it. But eventually, I can see this experiment fading away and he slowly gets back to his old swing. With this current mess, he will not catch Jack for 18 majors unless they step up the St. Andrews rotation in the Open. With this swing we are not going to see him dismantle a US Open setup at Pebble Beach, get the USGA in a tizzy so they go crazy with Bethpage, and then TW wins that too. Nope, with this swing we see a few wins a year, maybe a major mixed in there, and one helluva an imagination for the recovery and short game.

 

Golf Digest should pay attention. Don't show me how Tiger sets up to hit a driver to find fariways, that's a lie. Show me a Tiger tip on how to hit out of the trees low hooking bullets or low ground fades; that's more realistic.

 

What? A few wins a year? A major mixed in there? Were you paying any attention to him last year? His worst finish in a major last year was T4 and with the exception of missing the cut at this year's US Open he's been able to stay competitive ever since he got the Hank Haney swing working for him. So honestly what's wrong with "this swing"?

 

 

 

The reason he has been in the top 10 is because he is the baddest mofo around the greens. Regardless of swing, if you aren't putting good, you aren't going to win...

 

cough cough adam scott cough cough garcia cough

[DemolitionMan]

Last year was last year. What's wrong with his swing? I guess nothing for nine holes today. Where's the consistency off the tee and with the irons? TW started great but for his back 9 (Holes 1 - 9) it was back to earth.

 

And as for this putting theory? Come on, 30 putts today, two better than R1, but 5 strokes better in R2. How does that happen? Better shots, not better putting.

 

 

[markus1*]

329 yards and 71 percent fairways! The diamana works well for him... But putting is so bad in last time. Maybe he will to a Yes Putter (lol). I would just change putters, it often helps...

[IHFN]

Last year was last year. What's wrong with his swing? I guess nothing for nine holes today. Where's the consistency off the tee and with the irons? TW started great but for his back 9 (Holes 1 - 9) it was back to earth.

 

And as for this putting theory? Come on, 30 putts today, two better than R1, but 5 strokes better in R2. How does that happen? Better shots, not better putting.

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I saw that and I think part of it has to do with the new driver, which of course started this whole shabang. I'll say my last thing then I'll stop, because honestly, I'm not going to ever get anyone else to agree with me, and no one else is going to get me to agree with them. I'm just kinda bored at work, and hey, why not spend time here? :)

 

One struggle he has had recently, (meaning this year and last) was par 5s. He was hitting it so far right (sometimes left) that he couldn't hit the greens in two. Judging that he birdied 2 of 3 today and had 30 putts, I would guess he was back to hitting them in two since he switched to the diamana and the SQ Tour. Just a guess though, I could be losing my mind on this nice beautful Friday in which I'm stuck in a cube... :cheesy:

[DemolitionMan]

That's a very good point. TW used to dominate par 5's; they were the differentiator for him in many of his wins. Putting for eagle does wonders for your score.

[sandy]

Yes he is having a good round today and yesterday, but the fairways hit were 60 and 70 % not the 35-50 % range he has been in. And his GIR is much better when he does hit fairways despite all the people who say accuracy doesn't matter, just wedge it to the green. That philosophy also wrecked his GIR for a good while there. If he doesn't at least get back to the mid upper 60s he will never win another U.S. Open (unless it is at Pebble Beach) because he can't deal with the rough. This shaft seems to be better for his swing. So now he is making no putts for birdies as opposed to making no putts to save pars. (don't forget his only putting coach is no longer around). When I left today I think he was at least 7 strokes behind now. Remember the bi-matrix wasn't great the first time around. Still think Calc is the only guy who won with it. I still remember at Ping the huge order for bi-matrixes in the TISI after Calc won with it only to have 500 of them returned within months for reshafts. It may serve Bubba well but if I recall he can't hardly make a cut anymore after a pretty good start---doesn't look in any great shape at the Western.

[sandy]

An interesting comment on Tiger on USA when they showed the "highlights" of today's round. With that 67 Tiger will play the weekend---YIKES like that is some accomplishment.

[daihori]

Last year was last year. What's wrong with his swing? I guess nothing for nine holes today. Where's the consistency off the tee and with the irons? TW started great but for his back 9 (Holes 1 - 9) it was back to earth.

 

And as for this putting theory? Come on, 30 putts today, two better than R1, but 5 strokes better in R2. How does that happen? Better shots, not better putting.

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I saw that and I think part of it has to do with the new driver, which of course started this whole shabang. I'll say my last thing then I'll stop, because honestly, I'm not going to ever get anyone else to agree with me, and no one else is going to get me to agree with them. I'm just kinda bored at work, and hey, why not spend time here? :)

 

One struggle he has had recently, (meaning this year and last) was par 5s. He was hitting it so far right (sometimes left) that he couldn't hit the greens in two. Judging that he birdied 2 of 3 today and had 30 putts, I would guess he was back to hitting them in two since he switched to the diamana and the SQ Tour. Just a guess though, I could be losing my mind on this nice beautful Friday in which I'm stuck in a cube... :cheesy:

 

 

That's really an interesting point. Speaking of the SQ Tour, I saw Jason Gore yesterday with the Ignite driver on the 10th tee when he was getting started. I thought he was playing R7 before but he seems to have switched to Ignite. I wonder why he didn't switch to one fo the SQ models. Both of Jason's playing partners (Chad Campbell and Carl Pettersson) were using the SQ driver.