R11s versus RBZ

[chrisday83]

Hit the 3 different drivers yesterday.As the poster above says there is little difference between the 3 in performance terms, though I'd agree that the RBZ spins more. The R11S club head looks HUGE! Appears larger than the RBZ (which sat a little closed to me) and much bigger than the RBZ tour (which resembled my Superdeep and sat nice and square to my eye). The 3 are all extremely loud. Got good distance from the R11S and RBZ tour, the standard RBZ spun way too much. Could only hit the stock shafts which again weren't a great fit for me.The R11S has really taken adjustability to much greater extremes. The fitter was showing it cranked 3 degrees open and then cranked down to 8 degree loft etc, etc. How much this will help the average guy I don't know but if you get professionaly fit then this is the club for you.The RBZ 3 wood does indeed go obscene distances. Without trying to be that guy who quotes stupid distances i was getting up towards 285 yards with a 3 wood which for me is unheard of (thats more like driver on a good day for me). Maybe the LM was a little enthusiastic but it was certainly going further than my regular 3 wood. It also sits nicely and feels lively too. Didn't have a chance to see this in its tour version though.

[scottvw13]

Can you comment any further on the hybrid? Most noteably, any increases in ballspeed compared to other hybrids? I use a hybrid in the place of a 3 wood so any gains in ballspeed would be great...

[bowlopho]

is it just me, or does the R11 resemble more of the 09 burner driver shape and the RBZ looks more like a R9 460 driver.

[CALI]

Will the old R9/R11 shafts fit in to the R11S and or the RBZ?

Thanks!

-Chris

[Actarus]

If it's that long, how is it that Golf Digest didn't gives 5stars to the RBZ? Me, i give 5stars to the BRZ from Subaru...

[Tumba]

Can some one help me understand the difference between the R11S and the RBZ driver

I know they both have the ability to have their lofts adjusted both ways up or down by 1.5 degrees, through the FCT tecnology.

I also know that the R11S has the ASP technology which allows you to independently open or close the face of the new R11s driver by 3°, without affecting loft.

I know that the RBZ does not have ASP technology.

Does then mean that when a player adjusts the loft of the RBZ driver the face angle will change with each change in loft?

If the face angle does change as loft is added or taken away, how much of a face angle change is really going on there? Is it a huge amount or is it subtle?

[Boogs2]

I'd love to try both, but more than likely, the RBZ 3 wood will be in the bag. Dont know about the drivers though, I need to learn how to hit driver first before I make an investment. Hopefully they have a trade in program for the RBZ line when they release, I got some clubs that I'd love to get rid of to get a RBZ 3 wood!

[chrisday83]

[quote name='Tumba' timestamp='1325895570' post='4039167']<br />Can some one help me understand the difference between the R11S and the RBZ driver<br /><br />I know they both have the ability to have their lofts adjusted both ways up or down by 1.5 degrees, through the FCT tecnology.<br /><br />I also know that the R11S has the ASP technology which allows you to independently open or close the face of the new R11s driver by 3°, without affecting loft.<br /><br />I know that the RBZ does not have ASP technology. <br /><br />Does then mean that when a player adjusts the loft of the RBZ driver the face angle will change with each change in loft? <br /><br />If the face angle does change as loft is added or taken away, how much of a face angle change is really going on there? Is it a huge amount or is it subtle?<br />[/quote]<br /><br /><br />

You pretty much nailed it.

The (cheaper) RBZ can adjust loft via FCT, but in doing so you are changing face angle. If you open the face you lose loft, if you close you gain loft. The standard RBZ also lacks moveable weight tech (MWT) and has a slight draw bias (the tour version is neutral bias).

The R11S is club fitters nirvana.
You can change face angle via FCT but then also change the sole plate. this means you can change loft but then also change face angle. Some people dispute this, particularly those that hover at address. I don't hover and think that the tech works.
It also features MWT so you can set up for a draw or fade bias depending on what you want. You can also change swing weight via these weights if you prefer a heavier or lighter feel.

You pay ~ $100 more for this adjustability, and an extra $100 if you want the TP shaft offerings (and then some of those carry an upcharge!)

[Qegurezi]

[quote name='Actarus' timestamp='1325888110' post='4038687']
If it's that long, how is it that Golf Digest didn't gives 5stars to the RBZ? Me, i give 5stars to the BRZ from Subaru...
[/quote]

Distance is just one part of the equation. Forgiveness, turf interraction, feel, etc, etc - the list goes on.

Definitely perked my interest tho. I await the Tour model WRX reports.

[moonshine]

Why is there a $229 tp model FW and a $329...the latter ti? I would not want speculation going into my bag....I'm finding a fitter with trackman and shaft options...or not buying the hype!

[Peoples Golf]

[quote name='CALI' timestamp='1325886059' post='4038557']
Will the old R9/R11 shafts fit in to the R11S and or the RBZ?

Thanks!

-Chris
[/quote]


Yes, I believe so.

[dlefty]

[quote name='CALI' timestamp='1325886059' post='4038557']
Will the old R9/R11 shafts fit in to the R11S and or the RBZ?

Thanks!

-Chris
[/quote]

Yes, 100%

[albatrosser]

[quote name='devlin3000' timestamp='1325216041' post='4003727']
When they have some real numbers then I will start believing all the increased distance claims.
Nothing on the current market can outdrive my [b][size="4"]Adams prototype 3wood[/size][/b]...and I'm average Joe swing speed .
You know these performance increase number claims are becoming silly!
One caveat last years products, specifically the Cleveland SL drivers with miyazaki's and TM's r11 with the blur shafts did product actual measurable and realistic distance increase for average joes...and I suspect that was more because of shaft technology ( yes lighter does mean faster and longer) advancements.
I think that this year (2012) the manufacturers will be hard pressed to produce the same results as last years product lines.
[/quote]

I looked at your sig , but knew before I looked that you had to be talking about the "clamshell" (3446). Best fairway EVER produced and for some reason they made less than 500??! DUMB!!!

[jwfgolfpro]

[quote name='ionakana511' timestamp='1325906011' post='4039957']
I'd love to try both, but more than likely, the RBZ 3 wood will be in the bag. Dont know about the drivers though, I need to learn how to hit driver first before I make an investment. Hopefully they have a trade in program for the RBZ line when they release, I got some clubs that I'd love to get rid of to get a RBZ 3 wood!
[/quote]

http://www.taylormadegolfpreowned.com/tradein/

JWF

[Tumba]

[quote name='chrisday83' timestamp='1325924400' post='4040781']
[quote name='Tumba' timestamp='1325895570' post='4039167']<br />Can some one help me understand the difference between the R11S and the RBZ driver<br /><br />I know they both have the ability to have their lofts adjusted both ways up or down by 1.5 degrees, through the FCT tecnology.<br /><br />I also know that the R11S has the ASP technology which allows you to independently open or close the face of the new R11s driver by 3°, without affecting loft.<br /><br />I know that the RBZ does not have ASP technology. <br /><br />Does then mean that when a player adjusts the loft of the RBZ driver the face angle will change with each change in loft? <br /><br />If the face angle does change as loft is added or taken away, how much of a face angle change is really going on there? Is it a huge amount or is it subtle?<br />[/quote]<br /><br /><br />

You pretty much nailed it.

The (cheaper) RBZ can adjust loft via FCT, but in doing so you are changing face angle. If you open the face you lose loft, if you close you gain loft. The standard RBZ also lacks moveable weight tech (MWT) and has a slight draw bias (the tour version is neutral bias).

The R11S is club fitters nirvana.
You can change face angle via FCT but then also change the sole plate. this means you can change loft but then also change face angle. Some people dispute this, particularly those that hover at address. I don't hover and think that the tech works.
It also features MWT so you can set up for a draw or fade bias depending on what you want. You can also change swing weight via these weights if you prefer a heavier or lighter feel.

You pay ~ $100 more for this adjustability, and an extra $100 if you want the TP shaft offerings (and then some of those carry an upcharge!)
[/quote]


On the Taylormade golf web site it says this! Tune for extreme distance. Engineered with Flight Control Technology for easy face angle and loft tuning.

It says the face angle can be tuned?

My question is how is this different from the R11S?

[Boogs2]

[quote name='jwfgolfpro' timestamp='1325962043' post='4041961']
[quote name='ionakana511' timestamp='1325906011' post='4039957']
I'd love to try both, but more than likely, the RBZ 3 wood will be in the bag. Dont know about the drivers though, I need to learn how to hit driver first before I make an investment. Hopefully they have a trade in program for the RBZ line when they release, I got some clubs that I'd love to get rid of to get a RBZ 3 wood!
[/quote]

[url="http://www.taylormadegolfpreowned.com/tradein/"]http://www.taylormad...ed.com/tradein/[/url]

JWF
[/quote]


I think this is only to buy preowned TM stuff? The trade in bonus is great though.

[jwfgolfpro]

[quote name='Tumba' timestamp='1325963062' post='4042019']
[quote name='chrisday83' timestamp='1325924400' post='4040781']
[quote name='Tumba' timestamp='1325895570' post='4039167']<br />Can some one help me understand the difference between the R11S and the RBZ driver<br /><br />I know they both have the ability to have their lofts adjusted both ways up or down by 1.5 degrees, through the FCT tecnology.<br /><br />I also know that the R11S has the ASP technology which allows you to independently open or close the face of the new R11s driver by 3°, without affecting loft.<br /><br />I know that the RBZ does not have ASP technology. <br /><br />Does then mean that when a player adjusts the loft of the RBZ driver the face angle will change with each change in loft? <br /><br />If the face angle does change as loft is added or taken away, how much of a face angle change is really going on there? Is it a huge amount or is it subtle?<br />[/quote]<br /><br /><br />

You pretty much nailed it.

The (cheaper) RBZ can adjust loft via FCT, but in doing so you are changing face angle. If you open the face you lose loft, if you close you gain loft. The standard RBZ also lacks moveable weight tech (MWT) and has a slight draw bias (the tour version is neutral bias).

The R11S is club fitters nirvana.
You can change face angle via FCT but then also change the sole plate. this means you can change loft but then also change face angle. Some people dispute this, particularly those that hover at address. I don't hover and think that the tech works.
It also features MWT so you can set up for a draw or fade bias depending on what you want. You can also change swing weight via these weights if you prefer a heavier or lighter feel.

You pay ~ $100 more for this adjustability, and an extra $100 if you want the TP shaft offerings (and then some of those carry an upcharge!)
[/quote]


On the Taylormade golf web site it says this! Tune for extreme distance. Engineered with Flight Control Technology for easy face angle and loft tuning.

It says the face angle can be tuned?

My question is how is this different from the R11S?
[/quote]

Less adjustable. No adjustable sole plate.

JWF

[Tumba]

[quote name='jwfgolfpro' timestamp='1325982490' post='4043107']
[quote name='Tumba' timestamp='1325963062' post='4042019']
[quote name='chrisday83' timestamp='1325924400' post='4040781']
[quote name='Tumba' timestamp='1325895570' post='4039167']<br />Can some one help me understand the difference between the R11S and the RBZ driver<br /><br />I know they both have the ability to have their lofts adjusted both ways up or down by 1.5 degrees, through the FCT tecnology.<br /><br />I also know that the R11S has the ASP technology which allows you to independently open or close the face of the new R11s driver by 3°, without affecting loft.<br /><br />I know that the RBZ does not have ASP technology. <br /><br />Does then mean that when a player adjusts the loft of the RBZ driver the face angle will change with each change in loft? <br /><br />If the face angle does change as loft is added or taken away, how much of a face angle change is really going on there? Is it a huge amount or is it subtle?<br />[/quote]<br /><br /><br />

You pretty much nailed it.

The (cheaper) RBZ can adjust loft via FCT, but in doing so you are changing face angle. If you open the face you lose loft, if you close you gain loft. The standard RBZ also lacks moveable weight tech (MWT) and has a slight draw bias (the tour version is neutral bias).

The R11S is club fitters nirvana.
You can change face angle via FCT but then also change the sole plate. this means you can change loft but then also change face angle. Some people dispute this, particularly those that hover at address. I don't hover and think that the tech works.
It also features MWT so you can set up for a draw or fade bias depending on what you want. You can also change swing weight via these weights if you prefer a heavier or lighter feel.

You pay ~ $100 more for this adjustability, and an extra $100 if you want the TP shaft offerings (and then some of those carry an upcharge!)
[/quote]


On the Taylormade golf web site it says this! Tune for extreme distance. Engineered with Flight Control Technology for easy face angle and loft tuning.

It says the face angle can be tuned?

My question is how is this different from the R11S?
[/quote]

Less adjustable. No adjustable sole plate.

JWF
[/quote]

So both the R11s and the RBZ driver can be adjusted for face angle, but the R11s can be adjusted more?

[Boogs2]

[quote name='Tumba' timestamp='1325982932' post='4043133']
[quote name='jwfgolfpro' timestamp='1325982490' post='4043107']
[quote name='Tumba' timestamp='1325963062' post='4042019']
[quote name='chrisday83' timestamp='1325924400' post='4040781']
[quote name='Tumba' timestamp='1325895570' post='4039167']<br />Can some one help me understand the difference between the R11S and the RBZ driver<br /><br />I know they both have the ability to have their lofts adjusted both ways up or down by 1.5 degrees, through the FCT tecnology.<br /><br />I also know that the R11S has the ASP technology which allows you to independently open or close the face of the new R11s driver by 3°, without affecting loft.<br /><br />I know that the RBZ does not have ASP technology. <br /><br />Does then mean that when a player adjusts the loft of the RBZ driver the face angle will change with each change in loft? <br /><br />If the face angle does change as loft is added or taken away, how much of a face angle change is really going on there? Is it a huge amount or is it subtle?<br />[/quote]<br /><br /><br />

You pretty much nailed it.

The (cheaper) RBZ can adjust loft via FCT, but in doing so you are changing face angle. If you open the face you lose loft, if you close you gain loft. The standard RBZ also lacks moveable weight tech (MWT) and has a slight draw bias (the tour version is neutral bias).

The R11S is club fitters nirvana.
You can change face angle via FCT but then also change the sole plate. this means you can change loft but then also change face angle. Some people dispute this, particularly those that hover at address. I don't hover and think that the tech works.
It also features MWT so you can set up for a draw or fade bias depending on what you want. You can also change swing weight via these weights if you prefer a heavier or lighter feel.

You pay ~ $100 more for this adjustability, and an extra $100 if you want the TP shaft offerings (and then some of those carry an upcharge!)
[/quote]


On the Taylormade golf web site it says this! Tune for extreme distance. Engineered with Flight Control Technology for easy face angle and loft tuning.

It says the face angle can be tuned?

My question is how is this different from the R11S?
[/quote]

Less adjustable. No adjustable sole plate.

JWF
[/quote]

So both the R11s and the RBZ driver can be adjusted for face angle, but the R11s can be adjusted more?
[/quote]



RBZ only has FCT so loft can be changed. R11s can adjust loft via FCT, has Moveable Weight Technology (MWT) for fine tuning in weight of the head/club, and The ASP (adjustable Sole Plate) to allow manipulation for clubhead to look open or closed.

[jwfgolfpro]

[quote name='Tumba' timestamp='1325982932' post='4043133']
[quote name='jwfgolfpro' timestamp='1325982490' post='4043107']
[quote name='Tumba' timestamp='1325963062' post='4042019']
[quote name='chrisday83' timestamp='1325924400' post='4040781']
[quote name='Tumba' timestamp='1325895570' post='4039167']<br />Can some one help me understand the difference between the R11S and the RBZ driver<br /><br />I know they both have the ability to have their lofts adjusted both ways up or down by 1.5 degrees, through the FCT tecnology.<br /><br />I also know that the R11S has the ASP technology which allows you to independently open or close the face of the new R11s driver by 3°, without affecting loft.<br /><br />I know that the RBZ does not have ASP technology. <br /><br />Does then mean that when a player adjusts the loft of the RBZ driver the face angle will change with each change in loft? <br /><br />If the face angle does change as loft is added or taken away, how much of a face angle change is really going on there? Is it a huge amount or is it subtle?<br />[/quote]<br /><br /><br />

You pretty much nailed it.

The (cheaper) RBZ can adjust loft via FCT, but in doing so you are changing face angle. If you open the face you lose loft, if you close you gain loft. The standard RBZ also lacks moveable weight tech (MWT) and has a slight draw bias (the tour version is neutral bias).

The R11S is club fitters nirvana.
You can change face angle via FCT but then also change the sole plate. this means you can change loft but then also change face angle. Some people dispute this, particularly those that hover at address. I don't hover and think that the tech works.
It also features MWT so you can set up for a draw or fade bias depending on what you want. You can also change swing weight via these weights if you prefer a heavier or lighter feel.

You pay ~ $100 more for this adjustability, and an extra $100 if you want the TP shaft offerings (and then some of those carry an upcharge!)
[/quote]


On the Taylormade golf web site it says this! Tune for extreme distance. Engineered with Flight Control Technology for easy face angle and loft tuning.

It says the face angle can be tuned?

My question is how is this different from the R11S?
[/quote]

Less adjustable. No adjustable sole plate.

JWF
[/quote]

So both the R11s and the RBZ driver can be adjusted for face angle, but the R11s can be adjusted more?
[/quote]

[color="#FF0000"][b]R11S[/b][/color]

[b]Our Most-Tunable Driver Ever.[/b]
The new R11S Tour is bigger, faster, more tunable and longer than the original R11 Tour driver. A 460cc matte-white finish head is powered by a new 5-sided ASP plate, new 1.5º FCT sleeve and movable weights. With 3D Tuning, you can independently tune loft, face angle and flight path your swing.

Features: [list][*]Tune loft up or down by 1.5° with Flight Control Technology (FCT)[*]Tune the face to one of five angles (±3°) with Adjustable Sole Plate (ASP) Technology[*]Tune the center of gravity toward the heel or toe with Movable Weight Technology (MWT)[*]460cc titanium head with Thick-Thin Crown design for lower CG[*]Inverted Cone Technology (ICT) promotes more ball speed on off-center hits[*]White non-glare crown and black clubface for easy alignment[/list]


[color="#00FF00"][b]RBZ Tour[/b][/color]

Features: [list][*]Flight Control Technology makes tuning the loft and face angle easy.[*]Lightweight Matrix shaft and lightweight grip promotes faster swing speed for more distance.[*]Thick-thin crown design creates lower CG to promote higher launch for more distance.[*]Speed-enhancing head aerodynamics reduces wind resistance to promote faster head speed for more distance.[*]Inverted Cone clubface technology promotes faster ball – speed and distance on off-center hits.[*]Matte-white crown and black face makes alignment easier and eliminates glare at address.[*]Deeper face for a more penetrating ball flight.[/list]Features: [list][*]Open face angle[*]Neutral flight bias[*]Tour shaft options[/list]

[dlefty]

Real simple, you adjust loft BY adjusting face angle.

Closing face = more effective loft

Opening face = less effective loft

The great thing in the ASP plate is, you can decouple the two, by being able to adjust face angle appearance when the club is grounded independent of whatever FCT loft adjustment you have made.

[Cobra Kai]

So I bought the RBZ TP on ebay and got it in 2 days ago... It turned out to be a TOUR TP instead of just the standard head... I need more of a Draw bias club so should I be looking to trade for a std RBZ head? or is the FCT able to help me close the face to where I need it to be.

I have the 9* TOUR if that matters.

[xerpro]

[quote name='Cobra Kai' timestamp='1331301769' post='4468909']
So I bought the RBZ TP on ebay and got it in 2 days ago... It turned out to be a TOUR TP instead of just the standard head... I need more of a Draw bias club so should I be looking to trade for a std RBZ head? or is the FCT able to help me close the face to where I need it to be.

I have the 9* TOUR if that matters.
[/quote]

You can change the FCT setting to higher, making it play 10.5 effective loft, and will close the face 2 degrees....
Should work out better for you....

As far as trading it goes, If you need more spin, this is not the head for you. Very low spin face....
Good luck!!!

[Cobra Kai]

[quote name='xerpro' timestamp='1331304093' post='4469119']
[quote name='Cobra Kai' timestamp='1331301769' post='4468909']
So I bought the RBZ TP on ebay and got it in 2 days ago... It turned out to be a TOUR TP instead of just the standard head... I need more of a Draw bias club so should I be looking to trade for a std RBZ head? or is the FCT able to help me close the face to where I need it to be.

I have the 9* TOUR if that matters.
[/quote]

You can change the FCT setting to higher, making it play 10.5 effective loft, and will close the face 2 degrees....
Should work out better for you....

As far as trading it goes, If you need more spin, this is not the head for you. Very low spin face....
Good luck!!!
[/quote]

Okay, Ill try closing it and playing it at 10* or 10.5*. Thanks!

Now I just need a damn wrench for the thing...

[SafariThomas]

So I bought the RBZ TP on ebay and got it in 2 days ago... It turned out to be a TOUR TP instead of just the standard head... I need more of a Draw bias club so should I be looking to trade for a std RBZ head? or is the FCT able to help me close the face to where I need it to be.

 

I have the 9* TOUR if that matters.

 

Kai; A true draw is hit with an open club face (see new ball flight laws). Change your swing path and you will be fine.

push-draw is a result of an open clubface with a swing path that's more inside-out than the clubface is open. For example, if the clubface is 3° open at impact but the swing path is 6° inside-out, the ball will start right (open clubface relative to the target) and curve left (closed clubface relative to the swing path).

http://thesandtrap.c...all_flight_laws

[Cobra Kai]

So I bought the RBZ TP on ebay and got it in 2 days ago... It turned out to be a TOUR TP instead of just the standard head... I need more of a Draw bias club so should I be looking to trade for a std RBZ head? or is the FCT able to help me close the face to where I need it to be.

 

I have the 9* TOUR if that matters.

 

Kai; A true draw is hit with an open club face (see new ball flight laws). Change your swing path and you will be fine.

push-draw is a result of an open clubface with a swing path that's more inside-out than the clubface is open. For example, if the clubface is 3° open at impact but the swing path is 6° inside-out, the ball will start right (open clubface relative to the target) and curve left (closed clubface relative to the swing path).

http://thesandtrap.c...all_flight_laws

 

 

Interesting... Great perspective.

 

My flight is a fade/push fade... Trying my best to correct it... Not sure how I can correct my swing to do that though.

[EthansGolf]

[quote name='johnstitch' timestamp='1325496692' post='4016607']
So how much longer will they persevere with the tacky white heads? According to trade figures the R11 shifted big numbers but just not seeing at my club or in league matches? Who buys them? Low hcp players in my area are heavily focused to Titleist and Ping with nothing else making a showing...I hit both of last year's models and they were good, but not mind blowing and the white head is a no no, too gimmicky. If they offered a dark head RBZ at 44.5 I could be tempted...
[/quote]

+1
definitely agree!
I wish they made rbz or r11s in black crown with regular metal color face.
all this white crown with black face (taylormade) and black crown with black face (titleist & callaway & ping) is pretty annoying IMO.
i really hope they make some traditional looking drivers for 2013

[espressoo]

^^
This thread came back from the dead but I have to agree with preferring the black crown. Hard to keep the white looking shiny and new.

[PZero]

I was at Golf Galaxy earlier and I saw a R11S with the sole plate sitting flush in the driver. It was new and the only R11S on the rack with that. Am I missing something or is this something they started doing in later releases?