Is Cleveland the most under rated OEM today?

[TPMAN]

Yes one of them. The only thing I like about the is the new classic driver. I am not far from pulling the trigger

[leftypga]

[quote name='Thrillhouse' timestamp='1332482539' post='4561454']
Man I can't believe people are saying they don't see anyone playing ping clubs, ping irons are probably the most popular iron around here, tons of people playing them.
[/quote]

I'm one that said it and I can't believe it either. I think part of the reason here is that my home course only carries Titleist clubs in the shop. They also have Cobra and Nike accounts, so you see a small mix of those clubs as well. Taylormade is pervasive everywhere, but for all of the other brands, we just don't have access. It's strange, I live in Napa, where you think there would be at least one golf shop. I have to drive almost an hour to get to a Golfsmith or Golf Mart. I think Most people around here are just too lazy to get away and try the other lines.

[HawkeyeDan]

[quote name='jokerusn' timestamp='1332500488' post='4561768']
[quote name='Ranger Rick' timestamp='1332495792' post='4561666']
I think most companies these days are great, there are very few companies you couldn't bag from driver to putter. Adams woods and hybrids have been great for a long time, WRXers love their irons, wedges are a touch lacking but apparently the Pugiellies can hold their own and Yes! putters are great. Cleveland too, Nike, Callaway, Titliest all fit the bill. Cobra don't have putters but their equipment is solid, the list goes on. [b]I don't think there is a thing as under-rated in golf anymore. Just under marketed.[/b]
[/quote]

This. But because companies market poorly or only for a specific type of product (Cleveland wedges, Adams hybrids, TM woods, etc) their other products are thought of as inferior. Lately, I've seen more ads/commercials from companies for their entire line which IMO is going help fix that perception.
[/quote]

Agreed - and also, what is Cleveland's identity?

For good or bad (or true vs false), this is generally the OEM marketing identities:

Titleist: Better player's clubs
PING: Best at fitting
Mizuno: Best forged stuff
Taylor Made: Best woods and forgiving clubs
Adams: Best hybrids and hybrid iron sets
Callaway: Phil's clubs and Odyssey putters
Nike: Tiger's clubs
Wilson Staff: Seriously? Seriously!

Cleveland: ???
Bridgestone: ???
Cobra: ???

I used to think of Cleveland as the best wedge company...now, not so much. Not because they don't make incredible wedges anymore - they do for sure - but moreso because I think most of the other OEM's do too.

[wobgon]

[quote name='leftypga' timestamp='1332480054' post='4561346']
[quote name='wobgon' timestamp='1332475162' post='4561036']
Not bad clubs. A step above Nike.
[/quote]

You've obviously not hit any of the recent Nike offerings. I was a Titleist man for years, but Nike has infiltrated almost my entire bag. The irons are some of the most solid I've ever hit. I probably wouldn't have tried the woods if they weren't given to me, but I'm so glad I did. I'm not completely sold on the putter yet, but It just performs. TM wedges aren't going anywhere for a long time. While Nike is stepping up their game to challenge the big boys, Cleveland is simply fading away.
[/quote]

I hit all the new Nikes. Don't like them. Seem a bit clunky. You like what you like, i'll like what i like.

[Oldboy]

[quote name='HawkeyeDan' timestamp='1332511604' post='4562498']
[quote name='jokerusn' timestamp='1332500488' post='4561768']
[quote name='Ranger Rick' timestamp='1332495792' post='4561666']
I think most companies these days are great, there are very few companies you couldn't bag from driver to putter. Adams woods and hybrids have been great for a long time, WRXers love their irons, wedges are a touch lacking but apparently the Pugiellies can hold their own and Yes! putters are great. Cleveland too, Nike, Callaway, Titliest all fit the bill. Cobra don't have putters but their equipment is solid, the list goes on. [b]I don't think there is a thing as under-rated in golf anymore. Just under marketed.[/b]
[/quote]

This. But because companies market poorly or only for a specific type of product (Cleveland wedges, Adams hybrids, TM woods, etc) their other products are thought of as inferior. Lately, I've seen more ads/commercials from companies for their entire line which IMO is going help fix that perception.
[/quote]

Agreed - and also, what is Cleveland's identity?

For good or bad (or true vs false), this is generally the OEM marketing identities:

Titleist: Better player's clubs
PING: Best at fitting
Mizuno: Best forged stuff
Taylor Made: Best woods and forgiving clubs
Adams: Best hybrids and hybrid iron sets
Callaway: Phil's clubs and Odyssey putters
Nike: Tiger's clubs
Wilson Staff: Seriously? Seriously!

Cleveland: ???
Bridgestone: ???
Cobra: ???

I used to think of Cleveland as the best wedge company...now, not so much. Not because they don't make incredible wedges anymore - they do for sure - but moreso because I think most of the other OEM's do too.
[/quote]

Cobra - youth as in rickie and lexi
Bridgestone - ball fitting

[smackygolf]

The March Datatech numbers will surprise a lot of you in terms of Cleveland and their market share.

[oscarpepper]

I have a Cleveland 290 Driver and I hit it just as good as the other brands. That said I will be adding a 910 in the near future. I am a Freshman in high school and have two sets of cleveland wedges, 1 set of custom scratch fitted by scratch for me, and am on my second set of Vokeys (SM4's). I guess I am a wedge ho haha, but I don't see any upgrade in the new cleveland wedges they have offered in the past few seasons.

[phatchrisrules]

I would say in the Wood and Iron market, yes, Cleveland is one of the most underrated OEMs today in that regard. They make some killer product, but sadly, in drivers and fairways, marketing is king. However, the shop I work at is selling the Cleveland Classic like hot cakes all day long. I would say we sell 1-2 a day easily, and it is consistently one of the top performers every time. Personally, I would not have even come out with the Black 265, I haven't even had 1 person ask to hit it since it came out. Yet, a lot of people want to try the Classic, it just looks cool and different from everything else out right now.

I would say the MOST underrated OEM right now is Wilson Staff. Their "tour" line of clubs such as the Fg59 blade, and Fg59 v2 cavity back are absolutely gorgeous looking, soft feel, very workable, and actually fairly inexpensive for forged clubs. The matching wedges are real good looking too with great spin and feel. Also, their drivers, for the average guy, are stupid easy to hit. They have a neutral look to them and are pretty long. They also usually pop some very good shafts in their clubs free of charge as well. I remember last year they had a real Voodoo SVS in their driver which retailed for $299.99 new (CAD), and the next closest thing to that was the Nike VR Str8fit which had a slightly modified Voodoo yet retailed at $429.99 brand new. Go figure. Also, their Fybrid Heavy Sole fairways are/were very easy to get the ball in the air, were long, and again sat dead square with a clean look.

Wilson is a really solid company, they just need a really good tour pro on their stable, or someone who can bring some flash back to their brand. Padraig looked promising, but he's faded a little in the last couple of years, and to be honest, Streelman and Barnes don't scream "cool" like Fowler or Tiger or Camilo did/do when they first came on tour.

[laurencelando]

[quote][quote name='phatchrisrules' timestamp='1332549649' post='4566666']
I would say in the Wood and Iron market, yes, Cleveland is one of the most underrated OEMs today in that regard. They make some killer product, but sadly, in drivers and fairways, marketing is king. However, the shop I work at is selling the Cleveland Classic like hot cakes all day long. I would say we sell 1-2 a day easily, and it is consistently one of the top performers every time. Personally, I would not have even come out with the Black 265, I haven't even had 1 person ask to hit it since it came out. Yet, a lot of people want to try the Classic, it just looks cool and different from everything else out right now.

I would say the MOST underrated OEM right now is Wilson Staff. Their "tour" line of clubs such as the Fg59 blade, and Fg59 v2 cavity back are absolutely gorgeous looking, soft feel, very workable, and actually fairly inexpensive for forged clubs. The matching wedges are real good looking too with great spin and feel. Also, their drivers, for the average guy, are stupid easy to hit. They have a neutral look to them and are pretty long. They also usually pop some very good shafts in their clubs free of charge as well. I remember last year they had a real Voodoo SVS in their driver which retailed for $299.99 new (CAD), and the next closest thing to that was the Nike VR Str8fit which had a slightly modified Voodoo yet retailed at $429.99 brand new. Go figure. Also, their Fybrid Heavy Sole fairways are/were very easy to get the ball in the air, were long, and again sat dead square with a clean look.[/quote]



Wilson is a really solid company, they just need a really good tour pro on their stable, or someone who can bring some flash back to their brand. Padraig looked promising, but he's faded a little in the last couple of years, and to be honest, Streelman and Barnes don't scream "cool" like Fowler or Tiger or Camilo did/do when they first came on tour.
[/quote]

Well I have to say that I have moved from Ping K15 irons to a matched set of Clevland Black irons with Myazaki shafts. Same dispersion grouping but a full 20 yards more distance. They have managed to make a golf club that us older guys with lower swing speeds can match the others on the course. The Black drivers/faiway woods are also up to scratch. However can't wait for my Classic and my Scotty Black!

Play well.

[typhoonoid]

perhaps their wedges are awesome but the mashie I have now is an animal!!

[Gbyeball]

I remember when they first came out with the Launcher 330 with the gold Fujikura shaft. That head was huge compared to the Callaway Steelhead driver I was playing at the time. I ran to a golf shop that had an indoor hitting area and a dozen swings later it was to the cashier and out the door. I owned a 588 raw wedge at the time which was money so I was a very proud Cleveland Guy. Other than a few more wedges I've never owned any other Cleveland products. Not that I didn't think they made good stuff it is just other companies had my attention. As others have said it is all about marketing and a really strong identity, which Cleveland has never truly established, except as a wedge company.

[craz-e]

[quote name='SoCalTitleist' timestamp='1332473679' post='4560892']
Cleveland and Adams are very underated.
[/quote]

My thoughts exactly. I have always like a lot of stuff from cleveland. There new irons look beautiful for sure. We are pretty spoilt with the equipment out on the market at the moment, seems like everyone is producing some awesome equipment.

[spring70]

[quote name='smackygolf' timestamp='1332544928' post='4566190']
The March Datatech numbers will surprise a lot of you in terms of Cleveland and their market share.
[/quote]

This is a real golf world. vs The niche extremists of golf forum boards.

[KaBoom21]

Ezcellent post on the 1st page by mantan. Really captures it.

I still play the TA7 irons and original 588 wedges. Played TA5 irons previously and owned a set of CG2 irons but never put them in play because I was hitting the TA7s so well. They made quality gear, even the stock shafts in the 588s were decent.

Haven't really liked an iron since the TA7. The CG16 Tours look okay, but wouldn't win out against I15s, Raxr X Tours, etc.

Even the new 588 doesn't impress. Too expensive, too busy looking. Kind of a moot point since I have a set of Nomad WRX 588s and a set of X Forged wedges stashed away.

Outside of maybe a Black Platinum #7 putter or the 290 driver/FL fairway/Miyazaki combo, not much appeals to me.

[smackygolf]

[quote name='spring7' timestamp='1332592740' post='4569134']
[quote name='smackygolf' timestamp='1332544928' post='4566190']
The March Datatech numbers will surprise a lot of you in terms of Cleveland and their market share.
[/quote]

This is a real golf world. vs The niche extremists of golf forum boards.
[/quote]
LOL!! Sorry, I forget sometimes that this is fantasy land where Cleveland isn't the number 2 wood company for a couple months in a row.

[chicagohacker]

[quote name='wobgon' timestamp='1332517942' post='4563234']
[quote name='leftypga' timestamp='1332480054' post='4561346']
[quote name='wobgon' timestamp='1332475162' post='4561036']
Not bad clubs. A step above Nike.
[/quote]

You've obviously not hit any of the recent Nike offerings. I was a Titleist man for years, but Nike has infiltrated almost my entire bag. The irons are some of the most solid I've ever hit. I probably wouldn't have tried the woods if they weren't given to me, but I'm so glad I did. I'm not completely sold on the putter yet, but It just performs. TM wedges aren't going anywhere for a long time. While Nike is stepping up their game to challenge the big boys, Cleveland is simply fading away.
[/quote]

I hit all the new Nikes. Don't like them. Seem a bit clunky. You like what you like, i'll like what i like.
[/quote]

True enough, everyone is entitled to their opinion, however, i cannot see anyone describing the nike vr pro mb/combos as clunky. I bought them for the direct opposite reason

[tigerfan23]

Nike is the most underrated - Best lineup for 2012 - between the pro combos vr pro wedges and vr limited woods - the VRS woods are stellar.

Nike makes the best clothing as well and shoes IMO. Underratted for sure - in a few years they will be on top of the golf world. Cleveland will get bought out.

[Millhill88]

[quote name='Zach Attack' timestamp='1332472491' post='4560774']
I swear, Cleveland has some of the most BEAUTIFUL looking clubs in their line up right now. The 588 line is one of the best player's lines of clubs I have seen in a very long time, yet, I have not seen/heard very much buzz about them from anybody outside a very limited amount of talk here on WRX.


Add to that some great, affordable custom putters from Never Compromise and wonderful golf balls from Srixon, you'd think Cleveland would be one of the most talked about and played clubs out there. But they're not. Why is that?
[/quote]

Srixon actualy owns Cleveland. IMO Srixon has much nicer equipment than Cleveland. If they took the Srixon lineup, and put the Cleveland badge on it, it would sell more, and get more notoriety. Just my 2 cents!

[Nessism]

I think Cleveland is where they deserve to be. They make some good clubs, but it's hit or miss. I was really dissapointed with the 558 wedges. The back is way too busy looking, and the sole grind has minimal camber and a sharp leading edge. The 588 sole of the past had a good bit of camber which helps keep the leading edge from digging. Their Traction shaft is a noodle too. As for their irons, Cleveland was one of the early strong lofts adopters, which is a pet peeve of mine. Also, their driver shafts are too long. Bottom line for me is Cleveland is following a bunch of the dumb industry trends (long drivers, strong lofted irons), and not distinguishing themselves in many ways.

[Large David Hammer]

I think they are one of a couple underrated brands. ...and they are definitely underrated. Their woods & drivers are for sure.

I wish the crazy-strong lofts weren't dominating their irons so dramatically, but that is true of me for most all of the OEMs in that regard. I do not like the thought that I will soon need a gap wedge for my gap wedge.

I think the numerous well-reviewed gear they've got now is the first true wave since they got purchased by Srixon. Their balls are obviously very good. The newest Cleveland woods are getting the best stock shafts they've ever had because Srixon owns Miyazaki as well. Also, Never Compromise are pretty good putters too. Nicely weighted, solid feeling clubs.

As they become a fully integrated machine and really get their sea legs (which I think we're seeing the beginnings of) they seem to be trending in the right direction.

My regard for the Cleveland products that I own and play, only goes up, the more that I play them. As a buyer, that's the best a product can do.

They are underrated in the sense that they are frequently overlooked IMO. The general chatter doesn't include them as much as their quality tells me it ought to.

[Yepyukon]

I am not sure I would call them underrated as much as I would say they have an unfair bias against them. People that will legitimately give their woods and irons a shot are usually happy with their performance and their wedges are still one of the most played out there (even on tour).

[MtlJeff]

I agree with Cleveland being underrated, even i forget about them sometimes and i'm a total ho. I wish they had nicer clubs on the GI, SGI end of the spectrum. But very nice wedges, underrated drivers and the new 588 irons look fantastic.

I think they lost a lot of mindshare with awful hibores and rainbow colored CG irons. I probably didn't go to Cleveland's website for 4 years during that period

[KYMAR]

[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1332609708' post='4570406']
I agree with Cleveland being underrated, even i forget about them sometimes and i'm a total ho. I wish they had nicer clubs on the GI, SGI end of the spectrum. But very nice wedges, underrated drivers and the new 588 irons look fantastic.

I think they lost a lot of mindshare with awful hibores and rainbow colored CG irons. I probably didn't go to Cleveland's website for 4 years during that period
[/quote]

Crazy canadians speaking outta turn again! The Hibore XL tour was a BEAST of a driver. There, i said it, now challenge me to a curling match or something. (ok the XLS and Monster were hideous and ridiculous )

And the CG 16 (non tour) irons aren't GI enough for you? Or the re-release of the black TA7? There is more offset in those things than in the record books of a Texas energy company!!

[ultrahack]

The TL310 driver and fairway woods are FANTASTIC. I would have never even tried them if not for some threads here on golfwrx regarding the incredible Miyazaki shafts.

I think Cleveland needs to tout the technology side more, e.g. the great Miyazaki lightweight shafts in the clubs, and less on gimmicky things like persimmon-looking paint schemes which makes them seem like a not-so-serious golf company.

[Falang_Golfer]

I would agree Cleveland is about where they should be. They have some good stuff, I'm sporting the woods, but it's not like you have to go find them living under a rock or something. They are in most major shops and get talk. Wilson on the other hand I think is the most under rated. Best performance compared to the talk about them. Not saying the best, but most people won't even look at them. And they should.

[LObin]

[quote name='hittingitlong' timestamp='1332594102' post='4569230']
Nike is the most underrated - Best lineup for 2012 - between the pro combos vr pro wedges and vr limited woods - the VRS woods are stellar.

Nike makes the best clothing as well and shoes IMO. Underratted for sure - in a few years they will be on top of the golf world. Cleveland will get bought out.
[/quote

I disagree. As long as Nike will be using cheap watered down shafts in there woods, they wont get a bigger share of the market. No matter how hot the heads are. The fake fubuki that comes stock with the VR_S line is real garbage. They should look into purchasing a shaft company or review their philosophy. Cleveland and Adams did it (offering real premium shafts stock) and even though they are still underated, their wood lines seem to draw more attention. At least on wrx...

[tigerfan23]

Most golfers who walk into a golf store don't care about the stock shaft - they hit a bunch of clubs and buy the one that works best - who gets fitted or plays aftermarket shafts? 5% of the golfing population?

[Tanner25]

Representing the high cappers here, I was impressed with the XLI irons and enjoyed the swap deal ( this was an easy transaction, their staff was great) and traded for the Hb3's, which are basically the same clubs, very easy to it and great for chipping. They slimmed down the Hb3's - so, they are less goofy looking. I'd say these clubs can hang with any SGI competitors. You don't hear much about these clubs. So, agreed, Cleveland is under rated.

[jlevitt9]

I have a ton of respect for Cleveland....legit Miyazaki shafts in the 270, 290 and 310 heads? Love it.

The 588 wedge is great too, sans the noodleish shaft.

[kitsoasis]

[quote name='KYMAR' timestamp='1332613261' post='4570650']
[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1332609708' post='4570406']
I agree with Cleveland being underrated, even i forget about them sometimes and i'm a total ho. I wish they had nicer clubs on the GI, SGI end of the spectrum. But very nice wedges, underrated drivers and the new 588 irons look fantastic.

I think they lost a lot of mindshare with awful hibores and rainbow colored CG irons. I probably didn't go to Cleveland's website for 4 years during that period
[/quote]

Crazy canadians speaking outta turn again! The Hibore XL tour was a BEAST of a driver. There, i said it, now challenge me to a curling match or something. (ok the XLS and Monster were hideous and ridiculous )

And the CG 16 (non tour) irons aren't GI enough for you? Or the re-release of the black TA7? There is more offset in those things than in the record books of a Texas energy company!!
[/quote]

CG16 are plenty forgiving but doesn't feel as nice as Razr HL/Di11/G20 for me.

Cleveland are definitely underrated in almost every other department though. I thought the SL/TL woods were fantastic, and with 'real' Miyazaki shafts in them they are excellent value. The problem with Cleveland is the lack of brand appeal, but not as much as Wilson Staff - they own that department unfortunately.