"I AM A GOOD BALL STRIKER"

[mozgolf]

[quote name='Chief Illiniwek' timestamp='1335185177' post='4772608']
[quote name='mozgolf' timestamp='1335168496' post='4772120']
Funny old thing in a touch over 30 years in the game, I have still never seen one of the mystical bogey golfers that regularly flushed the ball tee to green, but flubbed a high percentage of chips and was a rank 3 putt specialist.
[/quote]

Why do so many have this attitude? Do you never play with young guys? Every guy under 30 I know is the same. Long off the tee, lots of girs, but doesn't practice short game and ends up shooting 80. I turned 30 last year and said enough is enough. I'm tired of losing to old guys who don't seem to hit a green all day long and yet beat me. So I practiced my putting a bunch this winter. Most young guys don't. They pound an entire bucket of balls with driver and then hit the course.
[/quote]

Its not really an attitude its an observation.

I play with a load of guys of all ages. Though I wasn't really thinking of some one at your level. More the illusive internet warrior 20+ handicapper, "I'm a good ball striker, I just can not putt to save my self; needs blades to work the ball more, and wants to throw up a little just at the sight of some GI shovels", that seems fairly common on the net.

Sure I see the younger guy 10-12 cappper that could be a 5 or less if they had a short game. Like you say its largely as they don't practice their short game/ haven't learned how to get it up and down from a variety of lies etc

[HoldTheLag]

[quote name='GooseHook' timestamp='1335185942' post='4772668']
I used to be a good ball striker, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
[/quote]

Funny how it seems everywhere I turn there's someone saying the same thing.

[Chief Illiniwek]

Yes agree with that. If someone is a high capper, like 20+ and claims they are a good ball striker that would be pretty rare. You'd need to three putt A LOT to pull that off. I've seen guys that three putt four or five times a round, but hitting say, 12-14 greens a round and still being a 20+ capper would be a whole new level of bad putting!

[Sean2]

[quote name='russc' timestamp='1335152696' post='4771514']
I grew up in Milton and played out of Blue Hill CC .Where are you located ?
[/quote]
I'm in Weymouth...just down the road. :-)

[Yuck]

I agree with several of the above folks. The "good" ball striker" I was talking about shoots in the mid 70's because of a poor putting game. Not referring to a mid-capper. The good ball striker will have occasional rounds in the 60's, (a couple times a season), because the putts fell that day, but would have difficulty keeping a scratch or better handicap.

[Ranger Rick]

Good ballstriking to me is hitting it out the middle more often than not. I hit the ball pretty solid but my course has pretty small, well bunkered greens. If I miss left by a meter or two I might have missed the green but it doesn't mean I didn't strike it well. Also contrary to what the OP said, you will find guys hitting more GIR have more putts. It is easier to get up and down from 30ft away than it is to two putt the same distance.

[Veng]

[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1335152099' post='4771480']
[quote name='MadGolfer76' timestamp='1335146164' post='4770878']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1335145871' post='4770846']
I am not a good ball striker, but I am working on it. :-)
[/quote]

Nor am I...but I did stay at a Holiday Inn recently.
[/quote]
Make that a Holiday Inn [i]Express[/i], and all your golf ills will be cured. haha
[/quote]


Not even a Holiday Inn Express could cure my golf woes.

[mdgboxx]

I'm a good ball striker! But, if it weren't for Bad Luck, I'd have No Luck at all.

[geesecougar2]

[quote name='mandudebro' timestamp='1335160676' post='4771972']
Just out of curiosity, how do you all define good ball striking? I've always thought of it as hitting it solid/flush the vast majority of the time. I suppose one could also judge it by the results though, ie. how on target are one's shots? Granted, hitting it solid usually means you're hitting it close to your target, but not always.
[/quote]

It's a good way of looking at it. There are many ways of defining good ballstriking when talking about amateurs. It's easy to call a spade a spade when we see a real stick, but I've seen plenty of high single / low teens handicappers that I would consider good ballsrikers.

I am always impressed by guys just know how to get the sweet spot back on the ball; it may not always go where they want, but it's definitely a talent to be able to flush it. It's half the battle, the harder half. Even if they don't hit a lot of greens, I would call those guys good ballstrikers who just need to get organized. They can easily be a 10 handicap with a bad short game. The sound of their contact is sexy and when they are on their ballflights are marvelous. I also love playing with these guys because they usually don't take themselves too seriously or have overly long routines.

On the other side of the coin are the guys who don't necessarily flush it all the time but somehow get on the green or give themselves easy up and downs. They don't have great looks at birdie very often and their ball flights are not very impressive looking but they find a way to get on the green. I would call those guys good ballstrikers as well.

[JLTD63]

This is a funny thread...I get a little chuckle whenever I read some of the stuff that the OP mentioned. More or less along the same lines, I also laugh at the fact that basically EVERY time a thread gets going when people are telling tales of their longest drives the stories all end with "even though I reached in two with a 9-iron I three-jacked...nice par" or something of the like. As if your story is only believable if you three-putt!! LOL

[ram01002]

I have never seen a good ball striker who wasn't a plus handicap.

[CallawayLefty]

Good ballstriking to me by definition has to mean more than hitting it "flush" or out of the center of the face. I have hit a ton of shots that were flush and/or out of the center of the face that have been directionally off the planet earth and everywhere inside of that. There must be a directional component to good ballstriking. There are also trajectory/spin and general control components. Sometimes you can flush the hell out of one right out of the center of the face that is either a ballooning ball that lands short or a flyer (including a fairway flyer not related to any kind of rough) that blazes over the green. Then of course there is working the ball, which in my opinion is essential to being a true good ballstriker (be it high, low, left, right, shorter, longer, or any combination).

I think a lot of people would walk up to a guy like me on the range and think that I am a good ballstriker. Their definition would be based on the fact that I hit it relatively long with a good trajectory and rarely hit a traditional shank, skull, fat, blade, etc., regardless of the fact that I routinely hit balls 20+ yards off target with irons and even wedges and up to 75 yards or so off target with woods. But that's "good ballstriking" to most golfers. I think for them it equals "good contact" as in pretty and sounds good and not duffed. But to me, saying someone with my characteristics is a "good ballstriker" is laughable. Good ballstrikers know where the ball is going basically 100% of the time. Even when they miss, they know where it's going (think one sided or one directional miss - and usually a minor one by "miss" standards). They can hit it all kinds of different lengths, but direction and control are constant. I would submit that there are very few, if any, truly good ballstrikers who are not + handicaps. They essentially by default will be good--at least passable--at everything else (putting, chipping, pitching, etc.).

EDIT: And by the way, there are also, in my opinion, lots of scratch and + handicaps who are NOT good ballstrikers. To get to that level, they are at least passable, and they make up for their ballstriking with excellent course management and short games and a very strong ability to minimize damage caused by their misses.

[bigmoneyp]

The good ball strikers that I know who don't score well is because they have poor course management. They often pick incorrect clubs or hit incorrect shots and don't know where to miss.

[Dizz]

[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1335146787' post='4770962']
We see from most threads that things like driver distance or guys playing blades gets the most acclaim. Start a WITB with scratch blades and you are guaranteed 100 comments saying "those are beauties, they are so pure". Start a thread saying you can hit it 300yds and you will have 5000 views and countless people questioning you on it because NO ONE likes people who can hit it further then them. Short game threads? Crickets i tell you....

People are more comfortable saying their short game sucks because they feel they'll be judged less harshly then if they can't hit it far of hit blades.

Can't hit it far, you are a wuss. Need big fat forgiving irons? Yeah so does my [i]wife....[/i]
[i]
[/i]
But a poor short game goes over OK. So there you have it
[/quote]

Distance really drives this game. I played in a section event where a tour event is played and just killed one off the 18th hole. A guy in my group was just loving it say how he's never seen anyone in the event hit it there. He must have told 30 people about it after the round. Nobody cared what I shot, just that one tee shot. People love distance, why I don't know.

As far as the OP goes, everyone's level of "good" is different. Just like like everyone has a friend, son, nephew, grandson, landlord's brother's buddy who is "scratch."

[k b]

i'm a good ball striker, i just don't hit many greens.

"are these greens regulation size or what?"

[ram01002]

[quote name='CallawayLefty' timestamp='1335197774' post='4773732']


EDIT: And by the way, there are also, in my opinion, lots of scratch and + handicaps who are NOT good ballstrikers. To get to that level, they are at least passable, and they make up for their ballstriking with excellent course management and short games and a very strong ability to minimize damage caused by their misses.
[/quote]

Completely agree

[HitEmTrue]

[quote name='Chief Illiniwek' timestamp='1335185177' post='4772608']
[quote name='mozgolf' timestamp='1335168496' post='4772120']
Funny old thing in a touch over 30 years in the game, I have still never seen one of the [b]mystical bogey golfers[/b] that regularly flushed the ball tee to green, but flubbed a high percentage of chips and was a rank 3 putt specialist.
[/quote]

Why do so many have this attitude? Do you never play with young guys? Every guy under 30 I know is the same. Long off the tee, lots of girs, but doesn't practice short game and [b]ends up shooting 80[/b].
[/quote]

Shooting 80 is a far cry from a bogey golfer.

[CallawayLefty]

[quote name='J.W.' timestamp='1335198961' post='4773878']
[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1335146787' post='4770962']
We see from most threads that things like driver distance or guys playing blades gets the most acclaim. Start a WITB with scratch blades and you are guaranteed 100 comments saying "those are beauties, they are so pure". Start a thread saying you can hit it 300yds and you will have 5000 views and countless people questioning you on it because NO ONE likes people who can hit it further then them. Short game threads? Crickets i tell you....

People are more comfortable saying their short game sucks because they feel they'll be judged less harshly then if they can't hit it far of hit blades.

Can't hit it far, you are a wuss. Need big fat forgiving irons? Yeah so does my [i]wife....[/i]
[i]
[/i]
But a poor short game goes over OK. So there you have it
[/quote]

Distance really drives this game. I played in a section event where a tour event is played and just killed one off the 18th hole. A guy in my group was just loving it say how he's never seen anyone in the event hit it there. He must have told 30 people about it after the round. Nobody cared what I shot, just that one tee shot. People love distance, why I don't know.

As far as the OP goes, everyone's level of "good" is different. Just like like everyone has a friend, son, nephew, grandson, landlord's brother's buddy who is "scratch."
[/quote]

Exactly. To 95% of the golfing world, distance = ballstriking. You can shoot 92, but if you hit one drive 325 (doesn't even have to be in the fairway), even if the other 13 basically aren't in play, you're the best ballstriker they have even seen. I remember going to a Nationwide event last summer and basically being in awe of how straight they hit and the trajectory they produced. Not once did I think "boy that guy hit it long," but on every shot I would think "my god, that guy just hit his 5 iron as straight as I hit my putter."

Distance not only doesn't equal ballstriking, it can frequently be the antithesis, as any long but wild player (i.e. me) can atteset to.

[gators78]

I played with one guy in college who was the best ballstriker I've ever seen.

For the first few months I couldn't tell if he ever mishit a shot, they all seemed to end up around where he was aiming.

I was discussing it with my Dad over the phone and he said well he can hit it but does he have a good shortgame?

My response was well, he's hitting it so good he doesn't miss greens so....I dunno. Realistically averaged 16 greens a round, it was stupid.


So my answer is when you hit it so good I have no idea how good your shortgame is then you're a good ballstriker.

[CallawayLefty]

[quote name='gators78' timestamp='1335200160' post='4774010']
I played with one guy in college who was the best ballstriker I've ever seen.

For the first few months I couldn't tell if he ever mishit a shot, they all seemed to end up around where he was aiming.

I was discussing it with my Dad over the phone and he said well he can hit it but does he have a good shortgame?

My response was well, he's hitting it so good he doesn't miss greens so....I dunno. Realistically averaged 16 greens a round, it was stupid.


So my answer is when you hit it so good I have no idea how good your shortgame is then you're a good ballstriker.
[/quote]

I'd say the easiest answer on that guy is that his shortgame was horrendous. Because if it was good, he'd be playing on the PGA tour with a GIR % like that.

EDIT: And I love it how the old timers always ask "yeah, but how was his short game?" It's funny how if you hang around the game long enough you start to see that it's probably the biggest determining factor of how good you are...

[Number7]

Great thread and alot of funny posts. I have thought about it so often, cause it´s redic how many hcp 15 who claims to be good ballstrikers are in here. The two things are just mutually exclusive.

Obv ballstriker is just as subjective as many other things, so the term might have no value at all, but the claim is always used to justify playing blades or just to clearify that "I´m alot better than what the numbers say".

When it comes to the definition of a ballstriker, it´s not about your score or that you hit a good number of greens and are missing them on the right side etc. That´s a good golfer, making other terms redundant. A ballstriker has to do with the way one is striking the ball. If I was to define it in a simple way, it would be that a good ballstriker can flush and play with the trajectory (high draw/lowfade whatever) with his 3 iron just as natural as with his 7 iron.

[CallawayLefty]

[quote name='Number7' timestamp='1335201259' post='4774138']
Great thread and alot of funny posts. I have thought about it so often, cause it´s redic how many hcp 15 who claims to be good ballstrikers are in here. The two things are just mutually exclusive.

Obv ballstriker is just as subjective as many other things, so the term might have no value at all, but the claim is always used to justify playing blades or just to clearify that "I´m alot better than what the numbers say".

When it comes to the definition of a ballstriker, it´s not about your score or that you hit a good number of greens and are missing them on the right side etc. That´s a good golfer, making other terms redundant. A ballstriker has to do with the way one is striking the ball. If I was to define it in a simple way, it would be that a good ballstriker can flush and play with the trajectory (high draw/lowfade whatever) with his 3 iron just as natural as with his 7 iron.
[/quote]

Agree in principle. Although I would be curious to meet this mystery man who hits his 3 iron as good as his 7 iron. If that's your definition of good ballstriking, has there even been one throughout history? Even good old Ben Hogan probably couldn't say this. Of course, sometimes he didn't even carry a 7 iron, so I wonder how that would affect the discussion

[Number7]

Again I didnt say as good, but flushing it and shaping it as natural as his 7 iron. When you hook it or block it, physics will always make the result with the 3 iron a lotworse

[gators78]

[quote name='CallawayLefty' timestamp='1335201251' post='4774136']
[quote name='gators78' timestamp='1335200160' post='4774010']
I played with one guy in college who was the best ballstriker I've ever seen.

For the first few months I couldn't tell if he ever mishit a shot, they all seemed to end up around where he was aiming.

I was discussing it with my Dad over the phone and he said well he can hit it but does he have a good shortgame?

My response was well, he's hitting it so good he doesn't miss greens so....I dunno. Realistically averaged 16 greens a round, it was stupid.


So my answer is when you hit it so good I have no idea how good your shortgame is then you're a good ballstriker.
[/quote]

I'd say the easiest answer on that guy is that his shortgame was horrendous. Because if it was good, he'd be playing on the PGA tour with a GIR % like that.

EDIT: And I love it how the old timers always ask "yeah, but how was his short game?" It's funny how if you hang around the game long enough you start to see that it's probably the biggest determining factor of how good you are...
[/quote]

His short game was ok, nothing great, but when you hit that many greens all he had to do was not get into too much trouble and he could still post a number. I went to a school you've never heard of, and this guy went lights out and won either 4 or 5 events his freshman year. He was ranked in the top 50 college Golfweek rankings, and was getting looks from top programs, but my point is he was ahead of some guys you see on the PGA Tour now.


Then he went to an instructor you probably have heard of and the guy wanted to re-do a home grown move that worked so well.....needless to say, I learned why Butch Harmon describes his lessons with Tour players as "trying to not do harm."

[CallawayLefty]

[quote name='gators78' timestamp='1335202790' post='4774272']
[quote name='CallawayLefty' timestamp='1335201251' post='4774136']
[quote name='gators78' timestamp='1335200160' post='4774010']
I played with one guy in college who was the best ballstriker I've ever seen.

For the first few months I couldn't tell if he ever mishit a shot, they all seemed to end up around where he was aiming.

I was discussing it with my Dad over the phone and he said well he can hit it but does he have a good shortgame?

My response was well, he's hitting it so good he doesn't miss greens so....I dunno. Realistically averaged 16 greens a round, it was stupid.


So my answer is when you hit it so good I have no idea how good your shortgame is then you're a good ballstriker.
[/quote]

I'd say the easiest answer on that guy is that his shortgame was horrendous. Because if it was good, he'd be playing on the PGA tour with a GIR % like that.

EDIT: And I love it how the old timers always ask "yeah, but how was his short game?" It's funny how if you hang around the game long enough you start to see that it's probably the biggest determining factor of how good you are...
[/quote]

His short game was ok, nothing great, but when you hit that many greens all he had to do was not get into too much trouble and he could still post a number. I went to a school you've never heard of, and this guy went lights out and won either 4 or 5 events his freshman year. He was ranked in the top 50 college Golfweek rankings, and was getting looks from top programs, but my point is he was ahead of some guys you see on the PGA Tour now.


Then he went to an instructor you probably have heard of and the guy wanted to re-do a home grown move that worked so well.....needless to say, I learned why Butch Harmon describes his lessons with Tour players as "trying to not do harm."
[/quote]

That sucks. It's really unfortunate how many great home grown swings are lost. If you don't own the move, you're never going to do anything with it. That's not to say you can't learn something from somebody and come to own it, but if the basics are there and the result is good, sometimes you shouldn't mess with it.

[Skip1020]

I'm a good strike bowler but not a good ball striker.

Long live the sport of kegs.

[gators78]

[quote name='CallawayLefty' timestamp='1335202976' post='4774282']

That sucks. It's really unfortunate how many great home grown swings are lost. If you don't own the move, you're never going to do anything with it. That's not to say you can't learn something from somebody and come to own it, but if the basics are there and the result is good, sometimes you shouldn't mess with it.
[/quote]

Amen to that brother.

[596]

I think you need to be scratch or better to be considered a good ball striker. It's flushing every shot in the middle of the club face, hitting the shot you intended to hit, have the shot go where it was supposed to, AND have a short game to boot. I can't see a good ball striker without the ability to flush a pitch or chip.

As a 3 index I hit the ball well but I'm far from a good ball striker. I don't hit it long but I manage to stay away from trouble. I will actaully aim away from a tucked pin so I don't need to fly the ball over a bunker. I'll play for a 30 ft first putt, take my 2 putt and go home. I've also been known to intentinally hit my approach short left or right of a green to avoid trouble and chip and putt for the par. A good ball striker will aim at that pin, flight the ball perfectly, land it soft and putt for a birdie.

[northgolf]

[quote name='596' timestamp='1335203504' post='4774338']
I think you need to be scratch or better to be considered a good ball striker. It's flushing every shot in the middle of the club face, hitting the shot you intended to hit, have the shot go where it was supposed to, AND have a short game to boot. I can't see a good ball striker without the ability to flush a pitch or chip.

As a 3 index I hit the ball well but I'm far from a good ball striker. I don't hit it long but I manage to stay away from trouble. I will actaully aim away from a tucked pin so I don't need to fly the ball over a bunker. I'll play for a 30 ft first putt, take my 2 putt and go home. I've also been known to intentinally hit my approach short left or right of a green to avoid trouble and chip and putt for the par. A good ball striker will aim at that pin, flight the ball perfectly, land it soft and putt for a birdie.
[/quote]

What in the world makes you think a good ball striker would aim for a sucker pin?

[CallawayLefty]

[quote name='596' timestamp='1335203504' post='4774338']
I think you need to be scratch or better to be considered a good ball striker. It's flushing every shot in the middle of the club face, hitting the shot you intended to hit, have the shot go where it was supposed to, AND have a short game to boot. I can't see a good ball striker without the ability to flush a pitch or chip.

As a 3 index I hit the ball well but I'm far from a good ball striker. I don't hit it long but I manage to stay away from trouble. I will actaully aim away from a tucked pin so I don't need to fly the ball over a bunker. I'll play for a 30 ft first putt, take my 2 putt and go home. I've also been known to intentinally hit my approach short left or right of a green to avoid trouble and chip and putt for the par. A good ball striker will aim at that pin, flight the ball perfectly, land it soft and putt for a birdie.
[/quote]


Yup, exactly. Good ballstrikers would only aim away from something if there was bogey or double bogey trouble in their usual miss spot. Other than that, it's firing on all systems all the time with complete confidence. Because of that, I agree that you must be at least scratch to be considered a good ballstriker. Contrary to a crap-ton of posts around here, there has never been a 5 handicap that was a good ballstriker, let alone a 15 handicap. And the vast majority of good ballstrikers will have at least good short games, if not great or flawless, for the same reasons that they are good ballstrikers.