60k + memberships

[Titleist1455]

[quote name='Conman48' timestamp='1335737394' post='4811314']
I see tons of pricey and impressive bags here everyday and it led me to wonder how many people on here are part of a high price membership? I am at a 60k course here in fr worth and no one I know at the club has been on the site. So let's hear it!
[/quote]

are you talking about an initiation fee of $60k?

if so, ours is currently $65k...however, i was "gifted" my membership when my grandfather passed away and i only pay $285/month (monthly dues).

[ssp]

I have been a member at 5 private country clubs over my lifetime. Most expensive was $18K up front and $500 per month with a minimum.

That being said .... I would never join a club that required Financial Statements. I understand the need for maybe a credit rating and I would approve that (and have).

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

There's only one club in my area with any significant up-front fee. And that one tends to not let you in (regardless of your willingness to pay) unless you're the "right kind of people". Which mostly means your daddy was the "right kind of people". Which mostly meant his daddy was the "right kind of people". They tend not to want your money unless it's old money.

Everywhere else is a few thousand dollars at most to get in. And in today's economy most of them are knocking that down to more or less "What do we have to do to get you into a new club today"?

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='raynorfan1' timestamp='1335974609' post='4832168']
[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1335973800' post='4832058']
Lets presume the club in question isn't struggling... You get voted in by the BOD/membership committee after a series of meetings, dinners, and rounds of golf with various key club members. At my last club it took three months before approval. To start, you'll provide detailed financials and bank references to be verified. Along the way the approval committee will discuss how sound your resources are; under the premise, our club has no debit, and on sound fiscal ground). We expect our members to be the same.

If someone requests a payment plan our first thought is he can't afford this club. But, to take it further, the question is can he afford dues of 800-1k, + the large payment towards paying off the initiation fee, on top of other club costs; and comfortably cover his cost of living. If a club offers a payment plan, IMO it suggests concern. But, if they do, it's typically 2-4yrs; NOT 10-30 like a mortgage. Furthermore, when someone has a high salary - say 20-30k monthly, or more, but not the disposable income to make one payment, it causes deeper review. Someone that wants a payment plan to join such a club, and uses the line, his 100k is invested elsewhere, is likely living above his means...
[/quote]

It's funny how regional this is. The clubs that I'm familiar with would [i]never[/i] ask about finances. It's just not done. The implicit assumption is that a sponsor wouldn't put somebody forward who couldn't afford it. The idea that you would ask for [i]references[/i]? If a member sponsored me and two seconded my application, that's all the references that the club needs. Any discussion of finances is strictly frowned upon - I didn't even know what the initiation fee and dues were until I got the bill (I later learned that the 'correct' process is that the Sponsor is meant to let the applicant know what the fees are). The implication being that if you have to ask, you can't afford it.

As for payment plans, interestingly enough, our initation fees can, with a discreet inquiry, be paid over three or five years. This is mostly to allow legacy members (i.e. the kids of members) an opportunity to join at a young age without a huge commitment up front.
[/quote]

Not regional. I just didn't detail all the club scenarios I've been exposed to. Board members typically visit other clubs to share leadership ideas, and enjoy 18; plus it helps to be known in the region.

But, you're correct. Some older limited clubs still don't allow just anyone to apply. Even my old yacht club was that way. Two members must sign the application and the candidate is posted for thirty days. As for the financial requirements, that's strictly articulated in the clubs charter. Over the last ten years, all the clubs I've been to want financials and investigate now-a-days. Initiation fees are high, so are dues, and members run up some big monthly tabs. Imagine the cost of hosting a full field of golfers over 2-7 day events. It's not like a credit card; payment is expected when the bill arrives. I won't go into the consequences if members get behind, and some do.

Many clubs offer payments to "junior" members as well, including my last two clubs. But, once Juniors turn 40, they must be buy a full membership; least that's the case at all the clubs I've visited. In equity clubs, unless the member holds a full membership, he can't vote, nor does he own a piece of the rock. Hence he writes a check for the initiation fee or leaves the club, and that includes legacy members.

[raynorfan1]

[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1335997283' post='4835050']
I won't go into the consequences if members get behind, and some do.
[/quote]

We have a pretty simple and effective way: if your account is 60 days in arrears, your name is posted at the front desk and you may not use the facilities until your account is fully paid. The rule has been in place for more than a hundred years and works surprisingly well.

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='raynorfan1' timestamp='1336007506' post='4836072']
[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1335997283' post='4835050']
I won't go into the consequences if members get behind, and some do.
[/quote]

We have a pretty simple and effective way: if your account is 60 days in arrears, your name is posted at the front desk and you may not use the facilities until your account is fully paid. The rule has been in place for more than a hundred years and works surprisingly well.
[/quote]

Embarrassment... My last club did that as well. That's when friends find out what someone is made of... Its not surprising to see someone that makes 400k per yr showing off for people outside the club, by picking up their costs over multiple visits, and getting behind. What's surprising is he lost his job over a year ago and told no one, yet kept spending at the club to the tune of six-figures and couldn't repay. He walked into the club one day and noticed he had been posted. He turned around walked out and was never seen again.

[JLTD63]

I could listen to Pepperturbo go on all day...please sir, tell us more about your yacht club!!!

[gr8 flopshot]

there are several private clubs here in Southern CA that have triple digit initiation fees and duesthat run well into the thousands of dollars per year. My course is one that many here in So Cal have never heard of and the initiaion fee is $65K + $400 per month F&B + $400 in dues.
It is hilarious though to read all the mis-information on this thread.
1) Troon North does not cost $75 per year (been there & played many times)
2) I can easliy see Trump Bedminster costing close to $75k per year. The initiaion fee is upwards of $300K and club membership is capped at 300 or 400 people. Do the math...the cost to maintain that course would be sky high. (BTW...Trump Los Angeles is semi-private so it is not comparing apples to apples when comparing it to Trump Bedminster)
3) There are some super exclusive clubs that can cost well into the 6 figures for a year or two if it is a true equity membership. Think about it...$1K for F&B + $1K dues + an assessment for the new clubhouse which cost $5MM. The fees in an assessment year can easily break $75K.

[gr8 flopshot]

[quote name='raynorfan1' timestamp='1335889935' post='4824452']
[quote name='teejaywhy' timestamp='1335889186' post='4824342']
I assume the word you are looking for is "debt."

Tell that to the members of Quintero, Superstition Mountain, Blackstone, The Rim Club, etc.

I guarantee there are a lot of clubs built during the real estate boom that are being crushed by debt. But I guess, despite the six figure initiation, these are just middle class clubs.
[/quote]

Add Boston Golf Club to the list...and I suppose that it's not debt per se. Some of them (I believe BGC is on this list) got built with cash from one or two individuals, but didn't attract enough members to cover the operating expenses and the original individuals get to a point where they no longer want to (or are able to) subsidize the club operations.

I would agree with Pepperturbo's assertion that the "high end" in AZ, CA, and TX is all in the 6 figure range. The interesting thing is that the 'old' ones: Riviera, LACC, etc. tend to be on the lower end of the range, while the 'new' ones: Bridges, Sherwood, etc. tend to be on the high end of the range.

The Northeast market is a little bit different in that we really don't have many "new" high-end clubs and the "old" ones aren't as expensive as most people believe them to be.
[/quote]

I must disagree a little bit...LACC, Riviera, Wilshire and Hillcrest are all still 6 figure initiaion fees. Additionally, all 4 are very old school...Just played at Riv for the first time. No cell phones allowed, no shorts allowed on the course, no denim allowed on the property, no guest can play more than 4 times per year & then the guest fee + caddie + cart fee made it a $500 day but the facility is unreal. add great food and a great singel malt selection to that as well.

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='gr8 flopshot' timestamp='1336088056' post='4843426']
[quote name='raynorfan1' timestamp='1335889935' post='4824452']
[quote name='teejaywhy' timestamp='1335889186' post='4824342']
I assume the word you are looking for is "debt."

Tell that to the members of Quintero, Superstition Mountain, Blackstone, The Rim Club, etc.

I guarantee there are a lot of clubs built during the real estate boom that are being crushed by debt. But I guess, despite the six figure initiation, these are just middle class clubs.
[/quote]

Add Boston Golf Club to the list...and I suppose that it's not debt per se. Some of them (I believe BGC is on this list) got built with cash from one or two individuals, but didn't attract enough members to cover the operating expenses and the original individuals get to a point where they no longer want to (or are able to) subsidize the club operations.

I would agree with Pepperturbo's assertion that the "high end" in AZ, CA, and TX is all in the 6 figure range. The interesting thing is that the 'old' ones: Riviera, LACC, etc. tend to be on the lower end of the range, while the 'new' ones: Bridges, Sherwood, etc. tend to be on the high end of the range.

The Northeast market is a little bit different in that we really don't have many "new" high-end clubs and the "old" ones aren't as expensive as most people believe them to be.
[/quote]

I must disagree a little bit...LACC, Riviera, Wilshire and Hillcrest are all still 6 figure initiaion fees. Additionally, all 4 are very old school...Just played at Riv for the first time. No cell phones allowed, no shorts allowed on the course, no denim allowed on the property, no guest can play more than 4 times per year & then the guest fee + caddie + cart fee made it a $500 day but the facility is unreal. add great food and a great singel malt selection to that as well.
[/quote]

I know Riviera very well, having been there numerous times. Every time I have played there it was with high profile members; cell phones and shorts were the order of the day too. Yes, its six-figure, but not really old school, by real old CC standards. Too many Hollywood types for that to work. Riviera and a few other pvt clubs use to be owned by Hathaway & family, If I recall correctly, LACC doesn't allow Hollywood celebrities, nor are shorts allowed on the golf course; but they are allowed on the courts. I believe Wilshire CC has similar rules. Clubs do not make rules that infringe upon their high profile member lifestyles. They just want members and guests to show respect for their surroundings and club history.

[CPSOX]

[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1335914202' post='4827202']
[quote name='teejaywhy' timestamp='1335907489' post='4826574']
[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1335895674' post='4825084']
It sounds as though you're suggesting that what constitutes "high end" is subjective here; I don't think so, and club metrics (wealth) do not vary either.
[/quote]

So your definition of a "high end" club is simple: One that does not fail.
[/quote]

Not at all. What constitutes high end clubs like Whisper Rock, The Bridges in SD and Sherwood CC, Islesworth, Lake Nona, and Augusta, has everything to do with club culture and the economic level of its membership, and owner(s). Someone (single) that makes 150k per year can afford 40-60k buy in, but most of the time needs a mufti-year payment plan, and 300-500 per month dues. That same person easily gets hurt by a faltering economy, and could end up struggling, as his reserves are limited. Now, consider any club with the majority of its members in the 100-200k range, and a limited number of really wealthy members, is likely to hurt as well. Big difference between that level of club and one where the average earning is 500k -1M and retirees have 15M+ or more in the bank.

I know a guy that without thinking much about cost, plunked down 12M "cash" to buy the club he was a member of. Another person I am acquainted with plunked down 5M "cash" to buy a resort / high end course because he's always wanted one... mind you that's not his profession. He owns another company.
[/quote]

The good news is, the best clubs in the world are the antithesis of the clubs you've mentioned so far in this thread where one can't get in simply by the size of his checkbook.

[Conman48]

So how many peoples clubs here have a voted on o be member policy? In Dallas certain clubs like National or Vaquero anyone can join if you have the dough but places like Colonial or Preston Trails you have to be recommended and go in front of the committee.

[parpar41]

Yes, some clubs still have initiation fees, (although generally much lower than before 2008)

Anyway, here is my suggestion about the initiation fee.

You have to acknowledge and accept that [b]once you pay it, it is gone. [/b]

If you can't accept that, then you shouldn't bother joining the club.

Even if the club says it is refundable; even if the club says it is some form of equity, you gotta assume you will never see the money back in your hands again.

And, btw, if you need a payment plan to manage the initiation fee, then chances are you have not yet reached the point in your financial life where you should be joining a private club. In other words, you probably have other, more pressing needs for that money at this stage in your life. Look after those more pressing priorities now and join a club in a few more years.

[Siper11]

[quote name='gr8 flopshot' timestamp='1336087673' post='4843390']
there are several private clubs here in Southern CA that have triple digit initiation fees and duesthat run well into the thousands of dollars per year. My course is one that many here in So Cal have never heard of and the initiaion fee is $65K + $400 per month F&B + $400 in dues.
It is hilarious though to read all the mis-information on this thread.
1) Troon North does not cost $75 per year (been there & played many times)
2) I can easliy see Trump Bedminster costing close to $75k per year. The initiaion fee is upwards of $300K and club membership is capped at 300 or 400 people. Do the math...the cost to maintain that course would be sky high. (BTW...Trump Los Angeles is semi-private so it is not comparing apples to apples when comparing it to Trump Bedminster)
3) There are some super exclusive clubs that can cost well into the 6 figures for a year or two if it is a true equity membership. Think about it...$1K for F&B + $1K dues + an assessment for the new clubhouse which cost $5MM. The fees in an assessment year can easily break $75K.
[/quote]


[b][size="2"]Virginia Country Club?[/size][/b]

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='CPSOX' timestamp='1336095819' post='4844260']
The good news is, the best clubs in the world are the antithesis of the clubs you've mentioned so far in this thread where one can't get in simply by the size of his checkbook.
[/quote]

Size of the check book is obviously a factor; but it's not the only determining factor. Potential members have to fit in with the club culture. Are you not saying what determines the "best" club varies per person. Antithesis - doesn't fit.. too many variables.

[b]@parpar41[/b] is absolutely right! Regardless what the tax accountant tells people and the IRS acknowledges; that an equity membership falls on the asset side of the balance sheet... you had better be able to walk away without feeling the loss.

[rockinar]

Initiation fee at my club is $50K if you own a house in the community, and $110K if you don't. Dues are $900/month +$20 for each cart, per player and there's no F&B minimum. I end up paying about $1,300 a month depending on how much I play or ring up in food costs.. In my opinion it's worth if if you can swing it or just really like to enjoy your rounds of golf.

The club is 100% private, low member numbers and if you go out in the late evenings, you have the course to yourself. Beats being forced to pair up with some clowns at a muni, that's for sure.

[gr8 flopshot]

[quote name='Siper11' timestamp='1336155711' post='4848904']
[quote name='gr8 flopshot' timestamp='1336087673' post='4843390']
there are several private clubs here in Southern CA that have triple digit initiation fees and duesthat run well into the thousands of dollars per year. My course is one that many here in So Cal have never heard of and the initiaion fee is $65K + $400 per month F&B + $400 in dues.
It is hilarious though to read all the mis-information on this thread.
1) Troon North does not cost $75 per year (been there & played many times)
2) I can easliy see Trump Bedminster costing close to $75k per year. The initiaion fee is upwards of $300K and club membership is capped at 300 or 400 people. Do the math...the cost to maintain that course would be sky high. (BTW...Trump Los Angeles is semi-private so it is not comparing apples to apples when comparing it to Trump Bedminster)
3) There are some super exclusive clubs that can cost well into the 6 figures for a year or two if it is a true equity membership. Think about it...$1K for F&B + $1K dues + an assessment for the new clubhouse which cost $5MM. The fees in an assessment year can easily break $75K.
[/quote]

That's the one.
[b][size="2"]Virginia Country Club?[/size][/b]
[/quote]

[CPSOX]

[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1336157093' post='4849066']
[quote name='CPSOX' timestamp='1336095819' post='4844260']
The good news is, the best clubs in the world are the antithesis of the clubs you've mentioned so far in this thread where one can't get in simply by the size of his checkbook.
[/quote]

Size of the check book is obviously a factor; but it's not the only determining factor. Potential members have to fit in with the club culture. Are you not saying what determines the "best" club varies per person. [/quote]

I'm saying that the clubs that you've quoted in this thread (except Augusta) are all joinable by those with a checkbook and a little persistence (if even). The great clubs of the world don't have to worry about providing "high end" amenities since their culture, course and membership don't need mahogany lockers to tell them they're special. You'll see 10x more Buicks in the parking lots than Ferraris even though the memberships can afford far, far greater.

So I guess I agree, what determines "best" is very different for me.

[mshills]

[quote name='CPSOX' timestamp='1336258299' post='4856020']
[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1336157093' post='4849066']
[quote name='CPSOX' timestamp='1336095819' post='4844260']
The good news is, the best clubs in the world are the antithesis of the clubs you've mentioned so far in this thread where one can't get in simply by the size of his checkbook.
[/quote]

Size of the check book is obviously a factor; but it's not the only determining factor. Potential members have to fit in with the club culture. Are you not saying what determines the "best" club varies per person. [/quote]

I'm saying that the clubs that you've quoted in this thread (except Augusta) are all joinable by those with a checkbook and a little persistence (if even). The great clubs of the world don't have to worry about providing "high end" amenities since their culture, course and membership don't need mahogany lockers to tell them they're special. You'll see 10x more Buicks in the parking lots than Ferraris even though the memberships can afford far, far greater.

So I guess I agree, what determines "best" is very different for me.
[/quote]

^^^^This.^^^^

[kygolfer1980]

I live about 30 minutes from a very nice course called Victoria National. I got to play it once and it was amazing, I have heard it is upwards of 50k upfront but I never asked the member I played with. It's definitely out of the price range of a registered nurse. I typically play public/ semi private courses in the $20-50 range and have no problem with it. Makes it that more exciting when I get the chance to play a course like that though.

[mljones99]

60k up to a little over 100k isn't unheard of around here.

[PattonFrench]

[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1335753046' post='4812920']
I drive by a course daily (though you can't see it), that's $150K and by invitation only.
[/quote]

Name?

[Sean2]

[quote name='PattonFrench' timestamp='1336445962' post='4869750']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1335753046' post='4812920']
I drive by a course daily (though you can't see it), that's $150K and by invitation only.
[/quote]

Name?
[/quote]
The Boston Club

[CPSOX]

[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1336446180' post='4869774']
[quote name='PattonFrench' timestamp='1336445962' post='4869750']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1335753046' post='4812920']
I drive by a course daily (though you can't see it), that's $150K and by invitation only.
[/quote]

Name?
[/quote]
The Boston Club
[/quote]

Maybe before the club nearly failed and was bought out by a handful of members. I would be very surprised if it was over $50,000 today. Great golf course though.

[CowtownTexas]

I have a membership at the same club as the OP and know of at least 3 other members that read this forum.

Some pretty good comedy reading this thread.

[Tommymn]

Paid 750 for my membership. I only make 60 a year haha

[mctrees02]

Here's a list of Dallas/Ft Worth courses with initiations and dues. This was published by Avid Golfer in March 2012. Judging by this list, the starter of this thread is either a member at Colonial or Shady Oaks CC.

List here ---> http://www.myavidgolfer.com/resources/2012%20Fees%20&%20Dues.jpg

[arydolphin]

[quote name='CPSOX' timestamp='1336483810' post='4871404']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1336446180' post='4869774']

The Boston Club
[/quote]

Maybe before the club nearly failed and was bought out by a handful of members. I would be very surprised if it was over $50,000 today. Great golf course though.
[/quote]

Pretty sure it's not 50k to get in there now. This is from an article in the Globe about a week ago:

[quote]It’s also not invitation-only anymore, since Boston Golf Club would like to increase its membership to more than 200 (it’s currently at slightly more than 100). Once the deal went through in January, any former member could rejoin at a cost of $30,000 - the initiation fee for new members is slightly higher, but also brings an equity stake - with the understanding that if the club remains healthy, there will be another capital call down the road. And while the majority of former members have re-upped, some have not, stung by the heavy financial losses incurred.[/quote]

Full article here: http://articles.boston.com/2012-05-03/sports/31540132_1_private-club-equity-club-young-club

Of course, one can still go to the Boston Golf Club website and it says that it's invitation only. It seems a little odd that the website would say that, yet I've seen multiple articles about the course that says that they are looking for new members. That leads to another question: how to inquire about membership in golf clubs that publicly say that they are invitation-only or something to that effect. As others have alluded to in this thread, it would seem that the barrier of entry for a lot of clubs in the past ($$$) is not as much of a factor now.

[tesuquegolfer]

So, the club in my area, Las Campanas in Santa Fe, NM, was cited in Golf Digest or Golf Magazine not too long ago about Private Clubs that have issues in today's economy. The members took over the club in 2010 from the developer and what I understand is that the bank that really owned the club tried to get the members to pay off some debt but they settled because the developer left some things undone or something. Anyway, it was an equity membership that was going for $90k and 20% would go to the club upon sale. The monthly dues were in the $750 range plus a minimal F&B charge. I almost bought in but what prevented me from jumping in was that I had to go on a list to sell and there were over 135 memberships on the list at that time. Well, I played with a guy at the local muni that used to be a member and he validated a rumor that the going rate is now ~$30k for the memberships and the dues are now up to ~1300/mo. Mind you the course is in northern NM and open about 7 months of the year. This guy and another 100+ members gave their memberships back to the club as they couldn't sell them and didn't want to pay the $1300+/mo. It is a beautiful facility with 2 Jack Nicklaus course that almost never have anyone on them. I told the guy that I was waiting for them to make it semi-private and he said don't count on it. They have enough members that can piss away money just to keep it to themselves. He said they had an oportunity to sell 12 tee times per day to a resort and they turned it down. I play as a guest for $125 a few times a year and a couple of charity tournaments when I can. Too rich for my blood and bank account!

[Sean2]

Ary: maybe you have to invite yourself.