60k + memberships

[knickerbocker]

I pay $550 a year!

I can afford a membership at a private club, but I choose not spend $550 a month for dues.

[HardHatsRequired]

[quote name='raynorfan1' timestamp='1335813806' post='4816782']
There seems to be a fair amount of confusion - even among the golf experts here - about how fees are structured.

To the poster above claiming $75K per year for a Trump course - I don't believe it for a second. $75K initiation? Absolutely. $225K initiation payable over three years (i.e. $75K per year times three)? Sure. $75K a year for DUES? No. That would be 5x the dues of Trump National Los Angeles. Liberty National is $25K per year (with a $250K initiation). Do you seriously think The Donald can command a 3x premium over Liberty National?

And then the people who wonder how golfers can be members of so many nice clubs. It's called National Membership. If you're an elite club (and I'll define that as any club that hosted a major before 1980), there's a pool of golfers who live thousands of miles away who will pay some small-ish amount of money for the right to come and play a few times a year. It's a win-win. You pay an initiation of something in the $10K range, and annual dues in the $1,000 range and you can play up to X times per year. These are a great revenue source for the receiving clubs.
[/quote]

75k/yr must be a payment plan, not dues. Highest I've heard are 25k.

Liberty National is at 250k for a NON-REFUNDABLE initiation (you gotta be seriously rich to pay a quarter-mil and not expect anything in return except playing privileges). Fully-refundable is still 500k.

Most national memberships at these high-end clubs are about half what a local member would pay. Many don't have explicit round limits (but expect a call if you play as much as locals). The very high-end clubs -- think US Open rota and their ilk -- have national membership that are usually less than half local memberships; in those cases, access is restricted not by the money but instead by the connections you have.

[raynorfan1]

[quote name='HardHatsRequired' timestamp='1335819270' post='4817758']
Liberty National is at 250k for a NON-REFUNDABLE initiation (you gotta be seriously rich to pay a quarter-mil and not expect anything in return except playing privileges). Fully-refundable is still 500k.
[/quote]

As an aside, I've always found the 'refundable / non-refundable' thing a little strange, especially where there's no equity component to the refundable (as is the case @ Liberty). It's all just math and expectations - if you can afford $250K non-refundable, you can certainly afford $500K refundable.

The reality of places like this - Liberty National in particular - is that you justify the expense as an entertainment cost of doing business. Like front row seats at Yankee Stadium; same ballpark cost, same dubious benefits...

[teejaywhy]

[quote name='XFelon' timestamp='1335811341' post='4816334']
However - I know that Troon North (up in Scottsdale) is $75k per year PLUS $500 dollars in dues every month.
[/quote]

You may be thinking of Troon CC.

Troon North is a public daily fee course.

*EDIT*
I looked on their website and you are right, they offer memberships for $75K initiation +$510 monthlies. LOL, what kind of moron would pay such coin to "join" a public course.

[Prof3ssor]

[quote name='raynorfan1' timestamp='1335813806' post='4816782']
[quote name='Conman48' timestamp='1335737394' post='4811314']
I see tons of pricey and impressive bags here everyday and it led me to wonder how many people on here are part of a high price membership? I am at a 60k course here in fr worth and no one I know at the club has been on the site. So let's hear it!
[/quote]

There seems to be a fair amount of confusion - even among the golf experts here - about how fees are structured.

To the poster above claiming $75K per year for a Trump course - I don't believe it for a second. $75K initiation? Absolutely. $225K initiation payable over three years (i.e. $75K per year times three)? Sure. $75K a year for DUES? No. That would be 5x the dues of Trump National Los Angeles. Liberty National is $25K per year (with a $250K initiation). Do you seriously think The Donald can command a 3x premium over Liberty National?

And then the people who wonder how golfers can be members of so many nice clubs. It's called National Membership. If you're an elite club (and I'll define that as any club that hosted a major before 1980), there's a pool of golfers who live thousands of miles away who will pay some small-ish amount of money for the right to come and play a few times a year. It's a win-win. You pay an initiation of something in the $10K range, and annual dues in the $1,000 range and you can play up to X times per year. These are a great revenue source for the receiving clubs.
[/quote]

I know several members at Trump here in NNJ. 20k a year tops. The initiation was 250k several years ago but that dropped to $150k I believe.

[raynorfan1]

[quote name='teejaywhy' timestamp='1335821105' post='4818046']
I looked on their website and you are right, they offer memberships for $75K initiation +$510 monthlies. LOL, what kind of moron would pay such coin to "join" a public course.
[/quote]

I could see it if you lived in the development and played a lot of golf. Greens fees at $200+ really add up if you're retired and playing 5x per week.

[gkoro]

most courses around here range from 50-150$ a round with cart. A few of them are well past $150. I play on the weekdays at a fairly decent course, and before 9am, its 65$. Membership is $2500 for weekday, and $4500 7 days a week. Most courses have dropped initiation fee, but around $2,000-3,000 is what you'll pay per year, cart not included. There are PLENTY of courses well over 40k, i guess thats what you get for playing golf in the most expensive county to live in the US.

[mattsam]

I'm tagging this topic because for the last few years I have considered one of two courses both are $50K to join.
That price is FAR and away many times more than any other local course. Both courses are very nice and have good size memberships. But its the facilities and the restaurants, and the pools, and the service all TOP notch.
These are in New Orleans which has NO good golf, really none. Even less if you want it for a family with pool and tennis. The restaurants I've had the pleasure to dine at are superb.

The membership is mostly older gentleman but also very good local golfers. Money games constantly, could easily get a regular game any day of the week scheduled.

Good golf in the area runs $65-100 a round.

[teejaywhy]

[quote name='raynorfan1' timestamp='1335821959' post='4818190']
[quote name='teejaywhy' timestamp='1335821105' post='4818046']
I looked on their website and you are right, they offer memberships for $75K initiation +$510 monthlies. LOL, what kind of moron would pay such coin to "join" a public course.
[/quote]

I could see it if you lived in the development and played a lot of golf. Greens fees at $200+ really add up if you're retired and playing 5x per week.
[/quote]

But for $75K in this economy you can join a true private club.

[jbrunone]

[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1335753046' post='4812920']
I drive by a course daily (though you can't see it), that's $150K and by invitation only.
[/quote]
Which one? tcc?

[daco81se]

[quote name='Tony_Ireland' timestamp='1335809487' post='4816152']
[quote name='Slapjax7s ' timestamp='1335809281' post='4816126']
some of my friends belong to Trump courses out here in NJ which cost up to $75k per year. I am a member of a nice club @ $1500 unlimited greens fees for a Junior Membership (up to age 36) No initiation or Food minimums.
[/quote]

jnr membership upto age 36, am i missing something?
[/quote]

Course I play at the Jr membership (they call it the young executive) is 21-45, they've all been raising the Jr m/ship age lately.

[raynorfan1]

[quote name='jbrunone' timestamp='1335824281' post='4818464']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1335753046' post='4812920']
I drive by a course daily (though you can't see it), that's $150K and by invitation only.
[/quote]
Which one? tcc?
[/quote]

TCC isn't even close to that $$$.

The only ones in New England that [i]might[/i] get into that initiation territory are the "new" ones - Old Sandwich, Boston Golf Club, etc. - but I don't think anybody is in that territory right now. If you told me that there was one course commanding that cash right now, I would bet on Old Sandwich.

The old line clubs cost [i]much[/i] less than people think they do. Those clubs simply don't need the money - it's the trendy new ones that are grappling with financial issues that cost $$$.

[joshn08]

[quote name='ev780' timestamp='1335809862' post='4816196']
We have several.

A couple in the $140-$150 range. One is 80% and the other is 100% with an anytime exit.

Another at $125 for 50% and yet another at $45,000 with no equity. There is one more but I think it is a plaything for some rich dudes. Rumor has it it is $250,000 but I think they do not want any members.

Dues are not bad though $5,000-$9,000 per year. Oh wait.......that is for 5 months of a golf season.

Clearly no recession in the private golf world of the Colorado Rockies!!!!
[/quote]
are you talking about the Colorado Golf Club in Parker, CO. That one is $250,000 to join but don't know the monthly fee's. I've played it once and it's a beautiful course.

Colorado has some expensive courses.

[Slapjax7s]

[quote name='raynorfan1' timestamp='1335813806' post='4816782']
[quote name='Conman48' timestamp='1335737394' post='4811314']
I see tons of pricey and impressive bags here everyday and it led me to wonder how many people on here are part of a high price membership? I am at a 60k course here in fr worth and no one I know at the club has been on the site. So let's hear it!
[/quote]

There seems to be a fair amount of confusion - even among the golf experts here - about how fees are structured.

To the poster above claiming $75K per year for a Trump course - I don't believe it for a second. $75K initiation? Absolutely. $225K initiation payable over three years (i.e. $75K per year times three)? Sure. $75K a year for DUES? No. That would be 5x the dues of Trump National Los Angeles. Liberty National is $25K per year (with a $250K initiation). Do you seriously think The Donald can command a 3x premium over Liberty National?

And then the people who wonder how golfers can be members of so many nice clubs. It's called National Membership. If you're an elite club (and I'll define that as any club that hosted a major before 1980), there's a pool of golfers who live thousands of miles away who will pay some small-ish amount of money for the right to come and play a few times a year. It's a win-win. You pay an initiation of something in the $10K range, and annual dues in the $1,000 range and you can play up to X times per year. These are a great revenue source for the receiving clubs.
[/quote]

Founding member..and UP TO $75K a year. Guy pays more for his membership than he will for a car. Remember, this is an elite COUNTRY CLUB, not just a golf club. Many other factors involved than just golf.

[raynorfan1]

[quote name='Slapjax7s ' timestamp='1335828007' post='4818998']
Founding member..and UP TO $75K a year. Guy pays more for his membership than he will for a car. Remember, this is an elite COUNTRY CLUB, not just a golf club. Many other factors involved than just golf.
[/quote]

I don't really know what that means.

Is "up to" what he spends in a year, or what his dues are? I definitely know guys who rack up that kind of tab at their clubs - once you add in guest fees, caddy fees, lessons, food + bev, etc. - but not on dues alone.

Also, I have no idea why you'd drop that kind of $$$ on one of the Trump courses unless you're a modern-day Al Czervik who can't get in to one of the [u]many[/u] cheaper and better options (Merion, Aronimink, etc.).

[3_Jack_Par]

[quote name='XFelon' timestamp='1335811341' post='4816334']
However - I know that Troon North (up in Scottsdale) is $75k per year PLUS $500 dollars in dues every month.
[/quote]
It's amazing that people would pay that kind of dough to join a club that allows public play. I've played both courses, and while they're very nice, $70k initiation is insane.

Note -- it's a $70k one-time fee, not annual.

[Conman48]

[quote name='parpar41' timestamp='1335753117' post='4812924']
[quote name='Nej1140' timestamp='1335752306' post='4812856']
60k membership?
[/quote]

Regrettably, I'm sure they exist.


Might even be common in the mega cities where the professional economy is still strong and the demand for golf is high.

Places like: Toronto, Vancouver, Seattle, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Boston and the like ?
[/quote]


See this is surprising to me because in Dallas/ Ft. Worth tere are dozens of courses that are at least 50,000 initiation with the max of 215,000 at Dallas National which is unbelievable for anyone!

[raynorfan1]

[quote name='Conman48' timestamp='1335829062' post='4819110']
[quote name='parpar41' timestamp='1335753117' post='4812924']
[quote name='Nej1140' timestamp='1335752306' post='4812856']
60k membership?
[/quote]

Regrettably, I'm sure they exist.


Might even be common in the mega cities where the professional economy is still strong and the demand for golf is high.

Places like: Toronto, Vancouver, Seattle, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Boston and the like ?
[/quote]


See this is surprising to me because in Dallas/ Ft. Worth tere are dozens of courses that are at least 50,000 initiation with the max of 215,000 at Dallas National which is unbelievable for anyone!
[/quote]

According to this article:

http://www.discoverylandco.com/assets/58500/cmwcnvfs_1211230478.pdf

(Which is admittedly dated 2008, but the general direction of initiation fees since 2008 has not been up)

there are 13 clubs in DFW with initiation fees 50K and above. I think the reality of that market is that clubs have to pay off the recent construction debt with big initiation fees and high dues. You see the same thing in Arizona and Florida. Older clubs that have already paid off the mortgage don't need to charge huge fees.

[Conman48]

Regrettably, I'm sure they exist.


Might even be common in the mega cities where the professional economy is still strong and the demand for golf is high.

Places like: Toronto, Vancouver, Seattle, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Boston and the like ?
[/quote]


See this is surprising to me because in Dallas/ Ft. Worth tere are dozens of courses that are at least 50,000 initiation with the max of 215,000 at Dallas National which is unbelievable for anyone!
[/quote]

According to this article:

http://www.discoverylandco.com/assets/58500/cmwcnvfs_1211230478.pdf

(Which is admittedly dated 2008, but the general direction of initiation fees since 2008 has not been up)

there are 13 clubs in DFW with initiation fees 50K and above. I think the reality of that market is that clubs have to pay off the recent construction debt with big initiation fees and high dues. You see the same thing in Arizona and Florida. Older clubs that have already paid off the mortgage don't need to charge huge fees.
[/quote]


The prices on there are accurate but it's missing quite a few courses but my course has dropped 20k from the time of the list which is nice on my part!

[Slapjax7s]

[quote name='raynorfan1' timestamp='1335828446' post='4819062']
[quote name='Slapjax7s ' timestamp='1335828007' post='4818998']
Founding member..and UP TO $75K a year. Guy pays more for his membership than he will for a car. Remember, this is an elite COUNTRY CLUB, not just a golf club. Many other factors involved than just golf.
[/quote]

I don't really know what that means.

Is "up to" what he spends in a year, or what his dues are? I definitely know guys who rack up that kind of tab at their clubs - once you add in guest fees, caddy fees, lessons, food + bev, etc. - but not on dues alone.

Also, I have no idea why you'd drop that kind of $$$ on one of the Trump courses unless you're a modern-day Al Czervik who can't get in to one of the [u]many[/u] cheaper and better options (Merion, Aronimink, etc.).
[/quote]

It's all about what the club can offer you. I have played there many times, nice course, not hard, really nice amenities. Plus its about the name.

[Skydiver22]

60k a year "boys club" phhhissh... I belong to a real nice club, cost me 20+yrs of my life but now I get exclusive membership in some of the nicest courses around. You to can be a member.... just join the military.

[raynorfan1]

[quote name='Slapjax7s ' timestamp='1335830593' post='4819326']
It's all about what the club can offer you. I have played there many times, nice course, not hard, really nice amenities. Plus its about the name.
[/quote]

I get that people spend a lot of money on golf, particularly at private clubs - I'm one of them - but $75K per year is just implausible. That would probably make it the most expensive annual dues in the country (certainly top 5). I get that it could be awesome, but those "amenities" must be pretty spectacular...

[HardHatsRequired]

[quote name='raynorfan1' timestamp='1335831261' post='4819464']
[quote name='Slapjax7s ' timestamp='1335830593' post='4819326']
It's all about what the club can offer you. I have played there many times, nice course, not hard, really nice amenities. Plus its about the name.
[/quote]

I get that people spend a lot of money on golf, particularly at private clubs - I'm one of them - but $75K per year is just implausible. That would probably make it the most expensive annual dues in the country (certainly top 5). I get that it could be awesome, but those "amenities" must be pretty spectacular...
[/quote]

Truth. The OP's friend may, indeed, rack up that kind of annual tab, but it's not because of dues. It's because he's hosting a ton of guest play with an ungodly bar/food/lodging tab, not annual dues. I have a good idea of the numbers at the two clubs in NJ, and neither is 25k yearly.

[ev780]

[quote name='joshn08' timestamp='1335825252' post='4818610']
[quote name='ev780' timestamp='1335809862' post='4816196']
We have several.

A couple in the $140-$150 range. One is 80% and the other is 100% with an anytime exit.

Another at $125 for 50% and yet another at $45,000 with no equity. There is one more but I think it is a plaything for some rich dudes. Rumor has it it is $250,000 but I think they do not want any members.

Dues are not bad though $5,000-$9,000 per year. Oh wait.......that is for 5 months of a golf season.

Clearly no recession in the private golf world of the Colorado Rockies!!!!
[/quote]
are you talking about the Colorado Golf Club in Parker, CO. That one is $250,000 to join but don't know the monthly fee's. I've played it once and it's a beautiful course.

Colorado has some expensive courses.


[/quote]



I had not heard about Colorado Golf Club being that high. But not surprising.

I was referring to Eagle Springs, up near Vail.

[hillrat0917]

[quote name='ev780' timestamp='1335883848' post='4823658']
[quote name='joshn08' timestamp='1335825252' post='4818610']
[quote name='ev780' timestamp='1335809862' post='4816196']
We have several.

A couple in the $140-$150 range. One is 80% and the other is 100% with an anytime exit.

Another at $125 for 50% and yet another at $45,000 with no equity. There is one more but I think it is a plaything for some rich dudes. Rumor has it it is $250,000 but I think they do not want any members.

Dues are not bad though $5,000-$9,000 per year. Oh wait.......that is for 5 months of a golf season.

Clearly no recession in the private golf world of the Colorado Rockies!!!!
[/quote]
are you talking about the Colorado Golf Club in Parker, CO. That one is $250,000 to join but don't know the monthly fee's. I've played it once and it's a beautiful course.

Colorado has some expensive courses.


[/quote]



I had not heard about Colorado Golf Club being that high. But not surprising.

I was referring to Eagle Springs, up near Vail.
[/quote]


I know someone that belongs there and plays there about 15x a year since he lives in MN. He says it is nice.

[ssp]

I believe there are a few clubs that total up the bill to run the club for the year and just divide it by the number of members (typically not many).

[bananapel]

You guys are seriously mistaken about the Trump initiation fees. Right now they are ZERO! I know for a fact that they are zero as a good friend of mine joined last year. 2 years ago it was 100k. Now, it's zero because they are hurting for members. Further, with Trump you can get in trump colts neck for 16k a year for life. That's golf only (no food min, caddies, tips, etc.) included. However, that course is not all that great. Trump Bedminster is a lot better and there is no initiation fee as well. I don't know the specific dues for that offhand but if you are a member at any trump you can play any trump course, provided you pay the member reciprocity fee.

Second, liberty national is not all that it's cracked up to be. You are paying for convenience to the city and the views. Bayonne is a much better golf course and it's right there as well; not to mention much cheaper.



The real gems of NJ are down south however. Shoregate, twisted dunes, sand barrens, galloway....All extremely great golf courses and a huge bargain compared to up north. Galloway is the most expensive at a meager 10k or 12k a year (can't recall price offhand but it's one of the two).

[raynorfan1]

[quote name='bananapel' timestamp='1335886120' post='4823926']
You guys are seriously mistaken about the Trump initiation fees. Right now they are ZERO! I know for a fact that they are zero as a good friend of mine joined last year. 2 years ago it was 100k. Now, it's zero because they are hurting for members. Further, with Trump you can get in trump colts neck for 16k a year for life. That's golf only (no food min, caddies, tips, etc.) included. However, that course is not all that great. Trump Bedminster is a lot better and there is no initiation fee as well. I don't know the specific dues for that offhand but if you are a member at any trump you can play any trump course, provided you pay the member reciprocity fee.

Second, liberty national is not all that it's cracked up to be. You are paying for convenience to the city and the views. Bayonne is a much better golf course and it's right there as well; not to mention much cheaper.



The real gems of NJ are down south however. Shoregate, twisted dunes, sand barrens, galloway....All extremely great golf courses and a huge bargain compared to up north. Galloway is the most expensive at a meager 10k or 12k a year (can't recall price offhand but it's one of the two).
[/quote]

Yeah, I have no idea what the Trump initiation fees are. Hearing that they're being waived doesn't surprise me - that's a pretty common scenario on newer courses that had big fees just a few years ago.

I'm only pointing out that the alleged $75K/year dues is highly unlikely.

And I'm not arguing that Liberty National is all that great, just that it would be a highly attractive alternative to Trump, given proximity to the city, PGA event access, etc. I view it as similar to TPC Boston - probably a better place to entertain/impress clients than to play golf.

[HardHatsRequired]

[quote name='bananapel' timestamp='1335886120' post='4823926']
You guys are seriously mistaken about the Trump initiation fees. Right now they are ZERO! I know for a fact that they are zero as a good friend of mine joined last year. 2 years ago it was 100k. Now, it's zero because they are hurting for members. Further, with Trump you can get in trump colts neck for 16k a year for life. That's golf only (no food min, caddies, tips, etc.) included. However, that course is not all that great. Trump Bedminster is a lot better and there is no initiation fee as well. I don't know the specific dues for that offhand but if you are a member at any trump you can play any trump course, provided you pay the member reciprocity fee.

Second, liberty national is not all that it's cracked up to be. You are paying for convenience to the city and the views. Bayonne is a much better golf course and it's right there as well; not to mention much cheaper.



The real gems of NJ are down south however. Shoregate, twisted dunes, sand barrens, galloway....All extremely great golf courses and a huge bargain compared to up north. Galloway is the most expensive at a meager 10k or 12k a year (can't recall price offhand but it's one of the two).
[/quote]

Bedminster got as high as 300k. I believe that they aren't requiring upfront initiation fees now but are instead deferring the 150k nut, payable after something like five years. My memory is a little foggy, so this might not be exactly correct -- and it could have changed since last summer.

This isn't really an argument about course merits. There's a bunch of great ones in NJ...and the real gem in south NJ is PV...

[Pepperturbo]

The high end private clubs (equity or benevolent dictator owned) in CA, AZ, TX, etc., don't advertise, have no debit, and are not struggling for members. Fifty thousand initiation isn't high end either; more upper middle class; but that's not to say they don't have really wealthy members. Club stature depends on where the club is located, demographics and the culture. High end clubs are between 80k-400k initiation with dues from 700-1700 per month, plus F&B quarterlies, trail fees, lockers, etc. Its easy to spend 1500-2500k per mo, plus special events, ancillary costs, and annual capital expenditures. Many members at high end clubs typically have multiple membership too.

To the poster above that says high end clubs have to pay off debit... wrong. Age of club isn't germane either. High end club members write lump sum checks, so clubs have no debit to speak of. The clubs you're referring to are moderate cost clubs build around homes, where wealth varies among members, and club leadership has questionable fiscal judgment.

PS - I haven't been to all clubs.. but having been on the BOD of one, and visiting many, haven't heard of or encountered one where dues where 75k per yr. That's not to say someone couldn't spend that much; at some clubs that's easy. All it takes is a member hosting one big party or a company event.