60k + memberships

[4puttz]

Ouch you guys are getting hosed.

 

Best club in Cape Town (in my opinion) is $6K up front and $2.5K a year. No green fees, no waiting, unlimited range balls, great practice facilities and an on-site winery. :)

 

Was recently voted the best golf resort in the world outside the US, so I reckon the price/quality ratio is pretty fair! Ratings were: Course Design & Access, Golf Staff & Services, Rooms, Service, Food/Dining, Location, Overall Design, and Activities/Facilities.

 

 

Well it's all about supply and demand. These are all resorts, they have built-in revenues from resort guests. A private club doesn't have a hotel and resort company to fund the golf course, not to mention maintenance, staff, etc. The members put up the money to build, maintain, staff, etc, either directly or indirectly. And you don't have to put up with hotel guests that don't have a clue how to play or about etiquette.

 

And on top of that, if you join a club where you have full equity like mine, you get all your money back and then some (hopefully). It just costs the monthly dues.

 

 

These are resorts, not golf clubs. I have played a few of these and would certainly not want a steady diet of these resort style, cart only six hour round tourist courses.

[Thrillhouse]

I play number 12 on that list 3 times a month, it's pretty fun but you better tee off before 8:30 in July and August or it's gonna be a six hour day.

[oregongolf]

[quote name='poizster' timestamp='1337740206' post='4962110']
I've heard stories about a club near me that is upwards of 6 figures to join, by invitation only. I actually heard through the grapevine that someone I had played golf with from time to time was on the waiting list for years, when it got to his interview they found out he had got divorced and was shown the door. I actually played there last year in the Oregon Amateur, the course is old, only 6,400 yards and was lit up last year in the stroke play qualifying. Not even that great of a course but it's been there since 1896.
[/quote]

I'm almost 100% positive that both Waverley and PGC are much cheaper than people think. I personally know someone who was interested in joining PGC before they lost their greens and he was basically told to put up 40k and they'll find a member to sponsor him.

I can't speak to the exclusivity of Waverley, but I would doubt it's the locked house people think it is.

On a side note, they just finished their reno of the course I guess. I'm gonna try and play it on an upcoming Monday. Supposedly it has toughened it up.

[Stretch]

[quote name='4puttz' timestamp='1338179665' post='4987872']
These are resorts, not golf clubs. I have played a few of these and would certainly not want a steady diet of these resort style, cart only six hour round tourist courses.
[/quote]
There are resorts, and "resorts". The hotel at Steenberg has 24 rooms and the golf club (which is a separate entity) is limited to 350 members. Congestion is [i]not[/i] an issue and visitors are required to take a caddie whether or not they hire a cart -- so most choose to walk.

My point in posting that table was just to establish that genuinely "premium" memberships in other parts of the world can be orders of magnitude cheaper than clubs of comparable quality in the US. Last time I lived in the States (2005ish), even the fairly ordinary CC near our house in the Boston suburbs was $30K to join and about $6500 in annual dues, minimums etc. as I remember. May well have come down a bit since, I know.

[JJFWebster]

My course is $40k equity share and $5k a year. Up here we are lucky to get 5 months.

This is why.."[color=#323232]Calgary has the highest percentage of golfers in the world as well as the highest per capita spending on golf in Canada" [/color]

[Holeinone2012]

Come out to La Quinta Ca all the new ones are so pricey.
Bighorn
Vintage
Mountain View
Mission Hills
The Palms (Freddy place)
The Madison Club
The Hideaway Club
The Quarry at La Quinta
Pork u pine creek

Just to name a few all over $75k to join.

[Shemp]

I don't belong to one, but I play at a bunch of them every year. My course is $3k/year. Cornish Silva design. Suits me fine. My old course was a Ross course up in NH that's probably around $6-7k/year now.

[Shemp]

[quote name='Stretch' timestamp='1338191758' post='4988182']
[quote name='4puttz' timestamp='1338179665' post='4987872']
These are resorts, not golf clubs. I have played a few of these and would certainly not want a steady diet of these resort style, cart only six hour round tourist courses.
[/quote]
There are resorts, and "resorts". The hotel at Steenberg has 24 rooms and the golf club (which is a separate entity) is limited to 350 members. Congestion is [i]not[/i] an issue and visitors are required to take a caddie whether or not they hire a cart -- so most choose to walk.

My point in posting that table was just to establish that genuinely "premium" memberships in other parts of the world can be orders of magnitude cheaper than clubs of comparable quality in the US. Last time I lived in the States (2005ish), even the fairly ordinary CC near our house in the Boston suburbs was $30K to join and about $6500 in annual dues, minimums etc. as I remember. May well have come down a bit since, I know.
[/quote]

The premier old money clubs around Boston haven't dropped much, if any. Several of the nouveau suburban clubs have had to drop their initiations appreciably.

[Shemp]

[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1337800343' post='4965822']


What lending institutions are you dealing with. For the sake of your statement I just got off the phone with my banker. She said consumer loans, whether originated at a bank or finance company, are based upon credit rating & credit reporting data; which shows all our loans, payment history and current credit, add the application you filled out. All the lending officer does is add up what's listed on your report, using formulas, throw in % for taxes, food and utilities, etc., and BAM... She sees what a person's approximate take home pay is.

After receiving your application for membership, the next thing any responsible club does is runs a credit report. That was the case at my last two clubs... they even asked to contact my CPA or banker, leaving the option to me. That's also the case at each of the clubs I am now considering. If a club didn't check out financial worthiness of potential members, they would be exposing themselves to potential losses.
[/quote]

As the President of a bank and a lender for 36 years, I can assure you that the vast majority of all lenders base consumer credit application underwriting on gross income. There are too many discretionary variables in trying to use net income.

Current FNMA conforming mortgage debt to income ratios are 28% for housing/36% for total debt. Equity lenders, car loans, credit cards etc go higher on the back ratio, but all are based on gross iincome.

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='Shemp' timestamp='1339878820' post='5108650']
[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1337800343' post='4965822']

What lending institutions are you dealing with. For the sake of your statement I just got off the phone with my banker. She said consumer loans, whether originated at a bank or finance company, are based upon credit rating & credit reporting data; which shows all our loans, payment history and current credit, add the application you filled out. All the lending officer does is add up what's listed on your report, using formulas, throw in % for taxes, food and utilities, etc., and BAM... She sees what a person's approximate take home pay is.

After receiving your application for membership, the next thing any responsible club does is runs a credit report. That was the case at my last two clubs... they even asked to contact my CPA or banker, leaving the option to me. That's also the case at each of the clubs I am now considering. If a club didn't check out financial worthiness of potential members, they would be exposing themselves to potential losses.
[/quote]

As the President of a bank and a lender for 36 years, I can assure you that the vast majority of all lenders base consumer credit application underwriting on gross income. There are too many discretionary variables in trying to use net income.

Current FNMA conforming mortgage debt to income ratios are 28% for housing/36% for total debt. Equity lenders, car loans, credit cards etc go higher on the back ratio, but all are based on gross iincome.
[/quote]

Thanks for chiming in, and I understand the ratios. As you know, not all banks and financial institutions follow the same rules. If that were the case, we wouldn't be seeing banks and credit institutions crumbling left and right; but another topic.. have a good day.

[CowtownTexas]

[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1340039935' post='5121840'] Thanks for chiming in, and I understand the ratios. As you know, not all banks and financial institutions follow the same rules. If that were the case, we wouldn't be seeing banks and credit institutions crumbling left and right; but another topic.. have a good day. [/quote]

You're correct, so you may want to pay attention to what we're telling you. We follow the same rules here in Texas that Shemp follows in Boston. Most banks follow these rules. If you're insinuating that banks out in California don't follow the same rules, that might be why there are now fewer banks with charters based in the State of California than there are with charters based just in my hometown. I have no doubt that many banks in California followed a different set of rules, though that's likely a large part of the reason that all of those banks were in trouble and few of them exist anymore.

I wouldn't want to be in your friends shoes next time the examiners show up. Sounds like some awful underwriting.

[ChipDriver]

[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1340039935' post='5121840']
[quote name='Shemp' timestamp='1339878820' post='5108650']
[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1337800343' post='4965822']

What lending institutions are you dealing with. For the sake of your statement I just got off the phone with my banker. She said consumer loans, whether originated at a bank or finance company, are based upon credit rating & credit reporting data; which shows all our loans, payment history and current credit, add the application you filled out. All the lending officer does is add up what's listed on your report, using formulas, throw in % for taxes, food and utilities, etc., and BAM... She sees what a person's approximate take home pay is.

After receiving your application for membership, the next thing any responsible club does is runs a credit report. That was the case at my last two clubs... they even asked to contact my CPA or banker, leaving the option to me. That's also the case at each of the clubs I am now considering. If a club didn't check out financial worthiness of potential members, they would be exposing themselves to potential losses.
[/quote]

As the President of a bank and a lender for 36 years, I can assure you that the vast majority of all lenders base consumer credit application underwriting on gross income. There are too many discretionary variables in trying to use net income.

Current FNMA conforming mortgage debt to income ratios are 28% for housing/36% for total debt. Equity lenders, car loans, credit cards etc go higher on the back ratio, but all are based on gross iincome.
[/quote]

Thanks for chiming in, and I understand the ratios. As you know, not all banks and financial institutions follow the same rules. If that were the case, we wouldn't be seeing banks and credit institutions crumbling left and right; but another topic.. have a good day.
[/quote]

Sure they are for the most part. Lending restrictions are much tighter and more uniformly applied. It's why businesses and individuals can't qualify for loans over the last 2-3 years...when previously they could. We don't need cheaper money, we need more relaxed credit/lending standards.

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='CowtownTexas' timestamp='1340046041' post='5122544']
[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1340039935' post='5121840'] Thanks for chiming in, and I understand the ratios. As you know, not all banks and financial institutions follow the same rules. If that were the case, we wouldn't be seeing banks and credit institutions crumbling left and right; but another topic.. have a good day. [/quote]

You're correct, so you may want to pay attention to what we're telling you. We follow the same rules here in Texas that Shemp follows in Boston. Most banks follow these rules. If you're insinuating that banks out in California don't follow the same rules, that might be why there are now fewer banks with charters based in the State of California than there are with charters based just in my hometown. I have no doubt that many banks in California followed a different set of rules, though that's likely a large part of the reason that all of those banks were in trouble and few of them exist anymore.

I wouldn't want to be in your friends shoes next time the examiners show up. Sounds like some awful underwriting.
[/quote]

Com'on - banks are failing across the US, including some in CA. You're comment suggests assumptions too. I appreciate the input. Thankfully my judgment has kept my company profitable with the guidance of my bankers and financial advisers for over thirty years. Have a good day.

[Motley]

Why in the world would you join a private club, and play the same course over and over and over. How boring. I go out and play high end public courses. I rarely play the same course twice in a year.

It's like having Pizza for dinner every night. Oh YUCK!

[ChipDriver]

[quote name='Motley' timestamp='1340055742' post='5123494']
Why in the world would you join a private club, and play the same course over and over and over. How boring. I go out and play high end public courses. I rarely play the same course twice in a year.

It's like having Pizza for dinner every night. Oh YUCK!
[/quote]


Why do you assume that club-joiners stop playing other courses??? I know several folks who have joined several clubs. And they don't stop playing other courses.

If that's the case - I'd suggest not joining a club. Your club(s) is/are your most used courses - but certainly NOT your ONLY course.

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='Motley' timestamp='1340055742' post='5123494']
Why in the world would you join a private club, and play the same course over and over and over. How boring. I go out and play high end public courses. I rarely play the same course twice in a year.

It's like having Pizza for dinner every night. Oh YUCK!
[/quote]

We joined, and both my wife and I still played other courses. That's a key deciding factor behind joining a private club. Can the potential member choose to play elsewhere, and not feel uncomfortable or justify the choice. For example, twice a year our course was in conditioning phase, so many members went elsewhere to play.

[CowtownTexas]

I could play my course every day for the rest of my life and never get bored.

[Conman48]

[quote name='Motley' timestamp='1340055742' post='5123494']
Why in the world would you join a private club, and play the same course over and over and over. How boring. I go out and play high end public courses. I rarely play the same course twice in a year.

It's like having Pizza for dinner every night. Oh YUCK!
[/quote]

See with some of the higher end courses it's a treat every time you step on the course. I still play all over but nothing personally beats my course. It just depends on the course I guess but it's not like every round of golf is ever even remotely the same

[Thrillhouse]

[quote name='CowtownTexas' timestamp='1340120091' post='5128308']
I could play my course every day for the rest of my life and never get bored.
[/quote]

I could play your course every day for the rest of my life and never get bored as well. I was lucky enough to play it once during my college golf years in Texas, it's still in my top ten.

[TomWishon]

[quote name='Conman48' timestamp='1335737394' post='4811314']
I see tons of pricey and impressive bags here everyday and it led me to wonder how many people on here are part of a high price membership? I am at a 60k course here in fr worth and no one I know at the club has been on the site. So let's hear it!
[/quote]

Used to be close to that number since Austin CC was a $50K initiation/$450 month club when I was a member there in the 90s. Sold the membership when we moved to Durango, CO in 2002 and joined Dalton Ranch G&CC for $5K/200 a month. And seriously, while the Pete Dye Austin CC was a VERY good layout, Dalton Ranch is a gorgeous course set between the red cliffs of the Animas Valley. And with a supt who cut his teeth working at the Broadmoor in Colo Spgs, Dalton is almost always in superb condition, better than ACC was. And on top of that, the clubhouse, range, workout center, pool at Dalton are actually better/nicer than the facilities at ACC.

So in my case, less has been more. Not only that but with the 6500 feet elevation at Dalton Ranch, we live in the "land of the 175 yd 7-iron!! Could not do that in Austin !! "

TOM

[Conman48]

[quote name='Thrillhouse' timestamp='1340177840' post='5133838']
[quote name='CowtownTexas' timestamp='1340120091' post='5128308']
I could play my course every day for the rest of my life and never get bored.
[/quote]

I could play your course every day for the rest of my life and never get bored as well. I was lucky enough to play it once during my college golf years in Texas, it's still in my top ten.
[/quote]

Where are you at cowtown?

[NWGolf]

The situation in Seattle is similar to what Shemp said about Boston. The two old courses in Seattle are in the price range mentioned in the topic but the suburban courses are way down in their initiation fees, many having non-equity programs that allow you pay a monthly and play.

[edub72]

[quote name='Conman48' timestamp='1340218582' post='5136912']
[quote name='Thrillhouse' timestamp='1340177840' post='5133838']
[quote name='CowtownTexas' timestamp='1340120091' post='5128308']
I could play my course every day for the rest of my life and never get bored.
[/quote]

I could play your course every day for the rest of my life and never get bored as well. I was lucky enough to play it once during my college golf years in Texas, it's still in my top ten.
[/quote]

Where are you at cowtown?
[/quote]

If I remember correctly its a PGA tour event course in Fort Worth, so pretty easy to figure out. That is just one of the coolest country clubs period and I've been to some nice ones.

[onemoetime]

Hello everyone 1st time poster LONG time lurker. My dads club in Naples, FL is a pricey place $200k and you buy equity in the club. They have a cap on members which is nice so that place is never overbooked. The Terra Cotta is played there and last time I was there I got to meet one of their members by the name of Fuzzy Zelloer.

[hurley9192]

[quote name='gr8 flopshot' timestamp='1336088056' post='4843426']
[quote name='raynorfan1' timestamp='1335889935' post='4824452']
[quote name='teejaywhy' timestamp='1335889186' post='4824342']
I assume the word you are looking for is "debt."

Tell that to the members of Quintero, Superstition Mountain, Blackstone, The Rim Club, etc.

I guarantee there are a lot of clubs built during the real estate boom that are being crushed by debt. But I guess, despite the six figure initiation, these are just middle class clubs.
[/quote]

Add Boston Golf Club to the list...and I suppose that it's not debt per se. Some of them (I believe BGC is on this list) got built with cash from one or two individuals, but didn't attract enough members to cover the operating expenses and the original individuals get to a point where they no longer want to (or are able to) subsidize the club operations.

I would agree with Pepperturbo's assertion that the "high end" in AZ, CA, and TX is all in the 6 figure range. The interesting thing is that the 'old' ones: Riviera, LACC, etc. tend to be on the lower end of the range, while the 'new' ones: Bridges, Sherwood, etc. tend to be on the high end of the range.

The Northeast market is a little bit different in that we really don't have many "new" high-end clubs and the "old" ones aren't as expensive as most people believe them to be.
[/quote]

I must disagree a little bit...LACC, Riviera, Wilshire and Hillcrest are all still 6 figure initiaion fees. Additionally, all 4 are very old school...Just played at Riv for the first time. No cell phones allowed, no shorts allowed on the course, no denim allowed on the property, no guest can play more than 4 times per year & then the guest fee + caddie + cart fee made it a $500 day but the facility is unreal. add great food and a great singel malt selection to that as well.
[/quote]

Riveria is the kind of club where you can throw down $250k and get in immediately. We refer to that as the zip line.

[shanked71]

Initially jumped in here to see if any members from Oak Hill commented, its the one private in the area that i truly have no idea what the dues are. However in exchange i did learn quite a bit, i guess im fortunate to live in an area where you can choose from several privates for 3-700 a month with initiations of sub 5k!

[rockinar]

[quote name='XFelon' timestamp='1335811341' post='4816334']
I just joined Whirlwind which is a troon course for 2800. Living in AZ helps with the year round golfing.

However - I know that Troon North (up in Scottsdale) is $75k per year PLUS $500 dollars in dues every month.


Even if I hit the lotto, I would not spend that kind of money for golf..
[/quote]

Troon North is not $75K a year. That's the initiation fee. And it's a one time payment.

[rockinar]

[quote name='Motley' timestamp='1340055742' post='5123494']
Why in the world would you join a private club, and play the same course over and over and over. How boring. I go out and play high end public courses. I rarely play the same course twice in a year.

It's like having Pizza for dinner every night. Oh YUCK!
[/quote]



I'm a member at a private club. I can go there any day of the week at any time and get a round in without making a tee time. The members fill their divots and fix ball marks and take care of the course. There's no idiots hitting into you. If someone does, they did it as a joke because you know them. Not once have I ever been forced to be paired up with anyone ever in years. I can play as fast or slow as I want and it does not matter because there's never anyone in front of me or behind me. If I catch up to a group I can go around because 99% of the time it's wide open in front of them. Need putting practice? Drop 5 balls and practice for 15 minutes on any green, nobody will be behind me.

Try that on any public course. It will never happen. Private is like be fed Filet Mingion by hot chicks in bikinis who want to satisfy your every demand every time your stomach growls.

You're just jealous.

[ChipDriver]

[quote name='rockinar' timestamp='1343913815' post='5395544']
[quote name='Motley' timestamp='1340055742' post='5123494']
Why in the world would you join a private club, and play the same course over and over and over. How boring. I go out and play high end public courses. I rarely play the same course twice in a year.

It's like having Pizza for dinner every night. Oh YUCK!
[/quote]



I'm a member at a private club. I can go there any day of the week at any time and get a round in without making a tee time. The members fill their divots and fix ball marks and take care of the course. There's no idiots hitting into you. If someone does, they did it as a joke because you know them. Not once have I ever been forced to be paired up with anyone ever in years. I can play as fast or slow as I want and it does not matter because there's never anyone in front of me or behind me. If I catch up to a group I can go around because 99% of the time it's wide open in front of them. Need putting practice? Drop 5 balls and practice for 15 minutes on any green, nobody will be behind me.

Try that on any public course. It will never happen. Private is like be fed Filet Mingion by hot chicks in bikinis who want to satisfy your every demand every time your stomach growls.

You're just jealous.
[/quote]

Your statement is simply not true of all privates.

There are good privates and bad ones; good publics and bad ones. And there are many publics that are better than some privates.

But IMO there is more similarity if the course is "expensive" whether or not it's public or private.

[golfheaven69]

Was in Boone NC last week and researched 3 courses. Astonished at the initiation fees.

Grandfather Mountain - $100k
Linville CC - 100k
Hound Ears - 60k

Open 6-7 months. Wow.