Leoupold lost a loyal customer today

[Wardonation]

I used last years GX4i flawlessly. My buddy wanted it so I sold it to him and bought the new GX4I DNA. Noticed it would not lock on prisms? Rep said it was user error and I explained that I had no problems with the old one. He was nice enough to bring me out another because I had a tourney. He said this one works great. Well during practice round once again it would not lock on prism at all! It also would flash the yds instead of being steady. Called rep he said that the engineers discovered that the processor was to wuick and they had a fix for it. I said I need in a week as I have a big tourney, He said send it in no problem. So I paid $49 to overnight it and two weeks later and several calls I went and picked it up at Leoupold myself. A guy came out and said he was sorry but it was working great. So I get to the tourney and what do you know SAME FRIGGIN issue. I sked him if I could get a refund and last years model. He said no take it back to Progolf and they will refund your money? He told me to try another range finder.. WOW!!! I love the Leoupold but now my buddy has the one that works and I have one that does not! I am going to write a letter to the president of the company.

[Wardonation]

Any ideas without being a smart a**?

[greens hit]

Have you compared it to a floor model? If you dont have prism flag near by you can use a street sign. See if it locks in and gives you a beep. How about yardage? Was it accurate? I never use the prism lock on mine. I always click it once and hover over the flag. It's their version of pin seeker. Never failed me. I'm always wary of users that end up with multiple defective items consecutively. Odds are it is user error or you are the unluckiest person in the world.

ProGolf? Are you in the northwest? Where is Leuopold HQ?

[Ti-Cip]

the 4 is not legal for tourn play.. so maybe you should be glad you didn't use it or you might have been dq'd..
seems like if they twice said there was nothing wrong with the unit, maybe it is user error?? i have the same model and i can assure you mine locks on to prisms easily, so i don't know about any thing defective with the unit..

[Wardonation]

[quote name='Ti-Cip ' timestamp='1339222556' post='5056620']
the 4 is not legal for tourn play.. so maybe you should be glad you didn't use it or you might have been dq'd..
seems like if they twice said there was nothing wrong with the unit, maybe it is user error?? i have the same model and i can assure you mine locks on to prisms easily, so i don't know about any thing defective with the unit..
[/quote] I have had other GX's and it is a problem with processor in the DNA models. Not user error and it is legal BTW.. Too many idiots on this site anymore. WOW fools and hacks. lol

[dave1269]

The GX-4 is non-conforming, see post: http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/374197-leupold-gx-4/

[TM_HOYER]

The GX-2, GX-4 and GX-4i are non-conforming and cannot be used for tournament play. The visible key showing the slope is turned off on the GX-4 and GX-4i does not make them legal. If the device has a non-conforming function, even if it can be turned on or off, it is non-conforming.

[greens hit]

[quote name='Wardonation' timestamp='1339297558' post='5060046']
[quote name='Ti-Cip ' timestamp='1339222556' post='5056620']
the 4 is not legal for tourn play.. so maybe you should be glad you didn't use it or you might have been dq'd..
seems like if they twice said there was nothing wrong with the unit, maybe it is user error?? i have the same model and i can assure you mine locks on to prisms easily, so i don't know about any thing defective with the unit..
[/quote] I have had other GX's and it is a problem with processor in the DNA models. Not user error and it is legal BTW.. Too many idiots on this site anymore. WOW fools and hacks. lol
[/quote]

You're right, too many idiots on this site. Lol

Now I'm 100% sure it's user error.

[mickw]

the 4 is not legal for tourn play.. so maybe you should be glad you didn't use it or you might have been dq'd..

seems like if they twice said there was nothing wrong with the unit, maybe it is user error?? i have the same model and i can assure you mine locks on to prisms easily, so i don't know about any thing defective with the unit..

I have had other GX's and it is a problem with processor in the DNA models. Not user error and it is legal BTW.. Too many idiots on this site anymore. WOW fools and hacks. lol

 

The GX-4i is non-conforming...you would have been DQ'd

 

Sorry for the diagnosis...lol.

[Ti-Cip]

[quote name='Wardonation' timestamp='1339297558' post='5060046']
[quote name='Ti-Cip ' timestamp='1339222556' post='5056620']
the 4 is not legal for tourn play.. so maybe you should be glad you didn't use it or you might have been dq'd..
seems like if they twice said there was nothing wrong with the unit, maybe it is user error?? i have the same model and i can assure you mine locks on to prisms easily, so i don't know about any thing defective with the unit..
[/quote] I have had other GX's and it is a problem with processor in the DNA models. Not user error and it is legal BTW.. Too many idiots on this site anymore. WOW fools and hacks. lol
[/quote]

yes,, add another idiot on this site too.. YOU!! i only get confrontational because of your reply!! as i said,, i have the SAME exact model, and it has no problem with prisms!! read again,, i have the gx 4i DNA..
and it is not legal for tournament play!!! do some research befor calling names!! or apologize..
btw,, i even spoke with leupold customer service recently , which i might they were awesome!! and he even confirmed the gx 4i is NOT LEGAL for tournament play, even if you switch the keys!!
man,, don't you do research before you buy something?? the model last year was the gx-4, and this year it is the gx-4i..LOL
i vote user error!!!
what does everyone else think???

[dxdgenert]

sounds like a 14 year old kid to me...

[nitram]

Another Ingemar Stenmark thread.......

[Llortamaisey]

I can't think of one "big tourney" that allows range finders regardless if it performs slope functions or not.

[flip flappy]

I am not a tournament player, so forgive my ignorance. Is it legal to use a rangefinder in a practice round regardless if it has slope feature or not, or is the legal issue just for the actual tournament?

[JJFWebster]

Rangefinders with the slope feature are not allowed to be used during tournaments or for handicap purposes. Rangefinders without slope are perfectly legal.

[DaveLeeNC]

[quote name='JJFWebster' timestamp='1339358815' post='5062442']
Rangefinders with the slope feature are not allowed to be used during tournaments or for handicap purposes. Rangefinders without slope are perfectly legal.
[/quote]

This is being picky, but technically speaking the course that you are playing should have a local rule allowing rangefinders before they really are legal. I admit that this is being quite picky.

dave

[junior22]

[quote name='Ti-Cip ' timestamp='1339299495' post='5060196']
[quote name='Wardonation' timestamp='1339297558' post='5060046']
[quote name='Ti-Cip ' timestamp='1339222556' post='5056620']
the 4 is not legal for tourn play.. so maybe you should be glad you didn't use it or you might have been dq'd..
seems like if they twice said there was nothing wrong with the unit, maybe it is user error?? i have the same model and i can assure you mine locks on to prisms easily, so i don't know about any thing defective with the unit..
[/quote] I have had other GX's and it is a problem with processor in the DNA models. Not user error and it is legal BTW.. Too many idiots on this site anymore. WOW fools and hacks. lol
[/quote]

yes,, add another idiot on this site too.. YOU!! i only get confrontational because of your reply!! as i said,, i have the SAME exact model, and it has no problem with prisms!! read again,, i have the gx 4i DNA..
and it is not legal for tournament play!!! do some research befor calling names!! or apologize..
btw,, i even spoke with leupold customer service recently , which i might they were awesome!! and he even confirmed the gx 4i is NOT LEGAL for tournament play, even if you switch the keys!!
man,, don't you do research before you buy something?? the model last year was the gx-4, and this year it is the gx-4i..LOL
i vote user error!!!
what does everyone else think???
[/quote]

[left]You are just wrong, all the way through...my brother is a touring professional, i caddy, and we both use the gx4 straight from the leupold tour staff...so just think about what you are saying, do you really think a company that has been the leader in optical t[size=4]arget acquisition (not just golf but shooting and hunting, providing optics to United States armed forces) would release not only a second but a third generation of a device that is supposed to be able to be switched from conforming to non-conforming with ease and no issues before they knew whether or not their orignal idea (almost 5 years ago) would be considered legal? i don't think so. that would be a huge risk and colossal waste of time for any company. but perhaps the most convincing piece of evidence here is that i have personally used the gx-4 without slope in a pga event and with slope in many practice rounds. next time there is an event in your area, go out and watch and see how much bright yellow you see on the front of guys rangefinders. and for an issue like this, THAT would be sufficient "[i]research"[/i][/size][/left]

[JJFWebster]

[quote name='junior22' timestamp='1339380462' post='5064326']
[left]You are just wrong, all the way through...my brother is a touring professional, i caddy, and we both use the gx4 straight from the leupold tour staff...so just think about what you are saying, do you really think a company that has been the leader in optical t[/left]
[left]arget acquisition (not just golf but shooting and hunting, providing optics to United States armed forces) would release not only a second but a third generation of a device that is supposed to be able to be switched from conforming to non-conforming with ease and no issues before they knew whether or not their orignal idea (almost 5 years ago) would be considered legal? i don't think so. that would be a huge risk and colossal waste of time for any company. but perhaps the most convincing piece of evidence here is that i have personally used the gx-4 without slope in a pga event and with slope in many practice rounds. next time there is an event in your area, go out and watch and see how much bright yellow you see on the front of guys rangefinders. and for an issue like this, THAT would be sufficient "[/left]
[i]research"[/i]
[/quote]
They are 100% illegal here in Canada.


[left][size=4]"[/size][color=#333333]Distance-Measuring Devices:[/color][/left]

[left][size=4][color=#333333][Specify as appropriate, e.g., In this competition, or For all play at this course, etc.], a player may obtain distance information by using a device that measures distance only. However, if, during a stipulated round, a player uses a distance-measuring device that is designed to gauge or measure other conditions that might affect his play (e.g., gradient, wind-speed, temperature, etc.), the player is in breach of Rule 14-3, for which the penalty is disqualification, regardless of whether any such additional functions are actually used."[/color][/size][/left]

[Ti-Cip]

[u]you can use any leupold device in practice rounds, but the gx 4 and gx 4i are NOT legal for tournament play..i think it's a silly rule, especially with the leupold key!! but leupold customer service told me a few motnhs ago that these units are NOT legal,, apparently even the possibility of painting the yellow key is enough to keep the usga form approval. he even mentioned it might even be bushnell that is trying to keep these leupold products down...[/u]
[u]i have the gx 4i and don't care if it is or is not legal, i won't use it if it's illegal for tourn play.[/u]

[junior22]

[quote name='JJFWebster' timestamp='1339380868' post='5064374']
[quote name='junior22' timestamp='1339380462' post='5064326']
[left]You are just wrong, all the way through...my brother is a touring professional, i caddy, and we both use the gx4 straight from the leupold tour staff...so just think about what you are saying, do you really think a company that has been the leader in optical t[/left]
[left]arget acquisition (not just golf but shooting and hunting, providing optics to United States armed forces) would release not only a second but a third generation of a device that is supposed to be able to be switched from conforming to non-conforming with ease and no issues before they knew whether or not their orignal idea (almost 5 years ago) would be considered legal? i don't think so. that would be a huge risk and colossal waste of time for any company. but perhaps the most convincing piece of evidence here is that i have personally used the gx-4 without slope in a pga event and with slope in many practice rounds. next time there is an event in your area, go out and watch and see how much bright yellow you see on the front of guys rangefinders. and for an issue like this, THAT would be sufficient "[/left]
[i]research"[/i]
[/quote]
They are 100% illegal here in Canada.




[left]"[color=#333333]Distance-Measuring Devices:[/color][/left]

[left][color=#333333][Specify as appropriate, e.g., In this competition, or For all play at this course, etc.], a player may obtain distance information by using a device that measures distance only. However, if, during a stipulated round, a player uses a distance-measuring device that is designed to gauge or measure other conditions that might affect his play (e.g., gradient, wind-speed, temperature, etc.), the player is in breach of Rule 14-3, for which the penalty is disqualification, regardless of whether any such additional functions are actually used."[/color][/left]
[/quote]

You all need to just accept this ok?...Adjustable drivers fall into a similar category...Taylormades R11, for example, has many many settings, however you must adjust the settings and then you may not touch them for the rest of play for that round. Accepting this as a rule basically means that your R11 driver is really more than 10 drivers in one, but you may only use one per round. Now back to the gx-4 (WHICH I HAVE USED IN PROFESSIONAL PLAY!), by having two separate face plates that when activated, have two different sets of features, it is indeed considered to be two different devices. Which of the two devices (yellow, slope activate key or silver 'distance-only' key) must be set and checked in before every round, just like your golf clubs. If you've ever actually used a gx-4 or even seen one you will see that underneath the interchangeable "keys" there is what looks like a mini-usb female port. You might also then notice that the only key with the male end is the yellow, sloped key. What this means is that the device without any of the keys inserted is a "DISTANCE-ONLY" measuring device and that inserting the yellow key changes the properties of the device by adding slope, a club selector, and temperature, all of which by the rules of golf, help the player to best make his next shot and are therefore illegal. So back to the R11. Lets say someone had a head with a "hot face" for their R11. Putting that head on the shaft before the round would mean you're teeing off with an illegal club. Changing to that head mid-round would mean that you are altering your equipment during a round, also illegal. The GX-4s yellow, sloped key is like that hot head for the R11, only for an extra $100 leupold includes it with your purchase of the device. If we all thought of this as a GX-3 with an optional, non-conforming adapter (which is all it really is) we wouldn't even be having this discussion. Now back to the rules, the rule says you must have a device that measures distance only. You MAY NOT alter any equipment during the round. So, you may not change the key in your GX-4 during around...thats why it is bright yellow and says "does not conform to the rules of golf' in the first place, so if anyone on the course or officials see it they know that someone has [i][b]ALTERED[/b][/i] their device, because if it started out yellow it was illegal to begin with, and you wouldn't have teed off. Again, i have used it in professional tournament play, both in the states and Europe...its a great piece of equipment so I am not quite sure why there are so many of you who refuse to use it because you think you might get DQ'ed from your amateur tourneys...I promise you, its not going to happen.

P.S it would be just as easy for me to get both a GX3 and a GX2 or all 4 of them so just trust

[Scratch2Plus]

[quote name='Wardonation' timestamp='1339297558' post='5060046']
[quote name='Ti-Cip ' timestamp='1339222556' post='5056620']
the 4 is not legal for tourn play.. so maybe you should be glad you didn't use it or you might have been dq'd..
seems like if they twice said there was nothing wrong with the unit, maybe it is user error?? i have the same model and i can assure you mine locks on to prisms easily, so i don't know about any thing defective with the unit..
[/quote] I have had other GX's and it is a problem with processor in the DNA models. Not user error and it is legal BTW.. Too many idiots on this site anymore. WOW fools and hacks. lol
[/quote]

Hey Wardonation, how about an apology to all the idiots, fools and hacks on this site?

[DaveLeeNC]

[quote name='junior22' timestamp='1339388818' post='5065118']

SNIP

... Now back to the rules, the rule says you must have a device that measures distance only. You MAY NOT alter any equipment during the round. So, you may not change the key in your GX-4 during around...thats why it is bright yellow and says "does not conform to the rules of golf' in the first place, so if anyone on the course or officials see it they know that someone has [i][b]ALTERED[/b][/i] their device, because if it started out yellow it was illegal to begin with, and you wouldn't have teed off. Again, i have used it in professional tournament play, both in the states and Europe...its a great piece of equipment so I am not quite sure why there are so many of you who refuse to use it because you think you might get DQ'ed from your amateur tourneys...I promise you, its not going to happen.

P.S it would be just as easy for me to get both a GX3 and a GX2 or all 4 of them so just trust
[/quote]

I agree with your analysis about why the GX-4 SHOULD be legal. However (unfortunately) the USGA/R&A have taken a differing position on this. See [url="http://www.usga.org/news/2009/November/USGA-R-A-Joint-Statement-On-Electronic-Devices/"]http://www.usga.org/news/2009/November/USGA-R-A-Joint-Statement-On-Electronic-Devices/[/url]

where they say

[i][color=#000000][size=3][left]The device has the capability to assist in calculating the effective distance between two points (i.e., distance after considering gradient, wind speed and/or direction, temperature or other environmental factors).[/left][/size][/color][/i]
[color=#000000][size=3][left][i]There would be a breach of the Rules even if all of the above features can be switched off or disengaged, and in fact are switched off or disengaged.[/i][/left][/size][/color]
[color=#000000][size=3][left]That is why many of us refuse to use it (even though many of us also disagree with the interpretation).[/left][/size][/color]
[color=#000000][size=3][left]dave[/left][/size][/color]

[phil75070]

[quote name='junior22' timestamp='1339388818' post='5065118'] Again, i have used it in professional tournament play, both in the states and Europe...
[/quote]

I would sure like to know on which tour and in what tournaments you were allowed to use DME. I do know that one of the "minor" tours here in the States allows their use but I doubt that it includes using anything with the slope function as every organization I know plays under USGA/R&A Rules. The Rules specifically state what it takes to be able to use a DME (laser or GPS) but the Rules make no exception for slope or any other factor. If it isn't being enforced it is because of lack of knowledge on the part of the Rules Officials regarding the yellow face plate. I would assume they they are assuming that people are honest and not using a device that the USGA hasn't approved.

If you go here ([url="http://golf.leupold.com/library/GX_brochure.pdf"]http://golf.leupold.com/library/GX_brochure.pdf[/url]) the brochure from Leupold shows that the GX4 is under appeal, which indicates it is NOT currently approved for use by the USGA. DUH

Also, does the GX4 have the capability to recommend which club to use? Is that feature also enabled by the key? That would also make it "illegal" putting slope aside.

[greens hit]

These additional features currently make the GX-4 non USGA-compliant, even though the extra information will only be displayed when using the bright-yellow faceplate/smart key. There is hope among some golfers that the USGA will approve this particular rangefinder for competitive play and we've seen reports of tournaments allowing the GX-4 without the smart key attached. But currently, from the information we have been able to gather, the GX-4 Rangefinder is not legal for all tournaments. For alternatives to the GX-4 that can be used all competitive golf situations, see both the GX-1 and GX-3 models.

[theshow]

The GX4 is completely illegal! You cannot post a score using this device, and you cannot use this device in a tournament. If it has the ability to do other things then measure distance, the device is illegal. If you don't believe me, contact the USGA, or Leupold. Many tour guys use slope devices in their practice rounds, but nobody uses them in their tournament play.

Lastly a retail store by me ordered a dozen of the GX4 w/prism lock. They sold them all, and all 12 came back because the unit never locked on the prisms. I think that part of the device is defective.

[theshow]

[u][b]Junior22[/b][/u] you're way off on the rules w/regards to the rangefinders being legal and illegal. You need to slow your roll!!!

[Skaffa77]

[quote name='DaveLeeNC' timestamp='1339415316' post='5065786']
[quote name='junior22' timestamp='1339388818' post='5065118']
SNIP

... Now back to the rules, the rule says you must have a device that measures distance only. You MAY NOT alter any equipment during the round. So, you may not change the key in your GX-4 during around...thats why it is bright yellow and says "does not conform to the rules of golf' in the first place, so if anyone on the course or officials see it they know that someone has [i][b]ALTERED[/b][/i] their device, because if it started out yellow it was illegal to begin with, and you wouldn't have teed off. Again, i have used it in professional tournament play, both in the states and Europe...its a great piece of equipment so I am not quite sure why there are so many of you who refuse to use it because you think you might get DQ'ed from your amateur tourneys...I promise you, its not going to happen.

P.S it would be just as easy for me to get both a GX3 and a GX2 or all 4 of them so just trust
[/quote]

I agree with your analysis about why the GX-4 SHOULD be legal. However (unfortunately) the USGA/R&A have taken a differing position on this. See [url="http://www.usga.org/news/2009/November/USGA-R-A-Joint-Statement-On-Electronic-Devices/"]http://www.usga.org/...tronic-Devices/[/url]

where they say



[left][i][color=#000000][size=3]The device has the capability to assist in calculating the effective distance between two points (i.e., distance after considering gradient, wind speed and/or direction, temperature or other environmental factors).[/size][/color][/i][/left]

[left][color=#000000][size=3][i]There would be a breach of the Rules even if all of the above features can be switched off or disengaged, and in fact are switched off or disengaged.[/i][/size][/color][/left]

[left][color=#000000][size=3]That is why many of us refuse to use it (even though many of us also disagree with the interpretation).[/size][/color][/left]

[left][color=#000000][size=3]dave[/size][/color][/left]

[/quote]

DaveLeeNC is absolutely correct and I've been following this ruling ever since it originally came out. I disagree with the USGA/R&A ruling because of the analogy to TM's adjustable woods and wedge (faces) and the fact that the game is supposed to be one of integrity where people are entrusted to follow the rules by not using those features, but the facts are the facts. If the range finder has the ability to calculate slope and/or elevation, it is deemed illegal for tournaments REGARDLESS if the feature is used or completely shut-off (even if it is done through an explicity manner - face plate).

[volrus]

For what it's worth, I have the Leupold GX-3i and I can't get it to lock on prisms either...I'm at the point where I'm thinking I maybe have that option turned off or something because it has never locked.

[slookx24]

I have a GX-3i and it locks onto street signs. I have not yet played a course with prisms, but I know for sure it works on street signs.

[dxdgenert]

Wow... Ah, Junior, you are a complete moron. You can argue all that you want but you are 100% wrong. If you are so confident in your stance then how bout telling me the name of your "touring pro" brother so I can contact your local state golf association and let them know he is using the GX-4. If you're right, you have nothing to worry about...