SLICEFIXER BOOK UPDATE

[Hoot151]

I reached out to him some time ago via email for lessons and never got a response. Seems like he's got more work than time already.

[tembolo1284]

Think he's always been that way Hoot. Your best bet is to call him. And call him again.

[Hoot151]

Thanks tembolo. I've read here that he's pretty hard to chase down. Problem is I don't want to spend a bunch of my time trying to track someone down that I'm asking to pay for their service. Same thing happened with a local instructor that I was working with. I texted him to schedule and never heard back so I moved on. Seems like both parties have plenty of business, which is great for them.

[dpb5031]

[quote name='Hoot151' timestamp='1411067141' post='10141897']
Thanks tembolo. I've read here that he's pretty hard to chase down. Problem is I don't want to spend a bunch of my time trying to track someone down that I'm asking to pay for their service. Same thing happened with a local instructor that I was working with. I texted him to schedule and never heard back so I moved on. Seems like both parties have plenty of business, which is great for them.
[/quote]

Geoff can be the " absent minded professor" at times. He is literally a one man show and not always the most organized... but don't let it put you off if you're interested in top-notch instruction...

[iteachgolf]

I'm going to preface this by saying I have zero issues with Geoff and a ton of respect for the man. Helps a lot of golfers get better and is passionate about the game which is extremely important part of teaching. All too often guys are going through the motions have no actual interest in the students progress, it's a job to them. Geoff isn't like that and has a big heart. Often times we get sidetracked and things that should be priorities get put on the back burner.

That being said, I don't get the "one man show" comments that are thrown around. The overwhelming majority of golf instructors are "one man shows". I'm sure Monte is and I know I am. I know that most days I'm teaching live lessons starting at 7:30am and don't finish til 5-7pm. After that I come home and have hours of online lessons to do (which as a general rule all get turned around within 24 hours). I generally end up putting in 12-14 hour days 6 days a week. And we all have personal lives where we have to spend time with the people we care about and get every day things done. I still manage to turn around internet lessons and reply to all emails with 24 hours and many times much shorter than that. Replying to emails takes very little time and if stayed on top of doesn't get back logged. The key is staying on top of it. If being a "one man show" means you don't have time to follow up and provide the best service you can, it might be time to hire someone to help answer emails and make return phone calls. Why many people have "administrative assistants"

At the end of the day customer service, both before and after the sale, has to be a priority if you wanna build a good business. The only reason I do the online lessons is because it helps people and allows follow up, it's certainly not worth it from a money/time investment. But its worth it from an overall standpoint of service I can provide. I firmly believe the golf industry is always a service industry and should be treated as such. I know I hate when my emails go unanswered or take days to get a response, so I avoid doing that to others. It's actually probably my biggest pet peeve in life. Geoff and many other pros are extremely busy and I'm sure he doesn't care what most of us think, but being reachable both before and more importantly after the sale for follow up makes people not only happier but better. It should be a part of the plan and time should be budgeted for it. I guess I'm old school but I don't spend money with someone who is indifferent about my business no matter how good the product. I deal with this all the time in the auto industry (most who know me know I build and like fast cars) and am willing to pay much more to get things done when they say they'll be done and be done right the first time, and a big part of that is following up and managing expectations.

This isn't about Geoff specifically but more so a problem I see all over the golf industry and other industries. People spread themselves too thin, service starts to drop off, and then business is affect as well as personal health quality of life.

[tembolo1284]

Well said Dan!

[J13]

Yeah I agree 100% with Dan. If you reach out to purchase or inquire about a product or service and after 2 attempts you don't hear back within a day or two then I will take my business elsewhere. Sorry but if you think he has some secret that he only shares with his students to make them scratch golfers your wrong. He is passionate and knowledgeable but so are many other teaching pro's that will actually respond without you having to track them down to take your money. Honestly it's insane to do that.

[Timanator]

When you goto a really good restaurant, and there is a line, you have 2 choices. Wait or go somewhere else not so good.

Thats life, people have priorities. And Geoff's is his current students. Any time I call or text I get a reply, and if you do not have a relationship with the man, and he does not get back to you asap. You have that choice.

But he is the best, and I'm sticking to that.

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='Timanator' timestamp='1411137984' post='10147047']
When you goto a really good restaurant, and there is a line, you have 2 choices. Wait or go somewhere else not so good.

Thats life, people have priorities. And Geoff's is his current students. Any time I call or text I get a reply, and if you do not have a relationship with the man, and he does not get back to you asap. You have that choice.

But he is the best, and I'm sticking to that.
[/quote]

Not quite the same at all. The restaurant sets expectations and tells you there is going to be a long wait. Not the same as ignoring potential customers. If you went to a busy restaurant and the hostess didn't even acknowledge you because there was no open seats you wouldn't give that place your business regardless whether it was good or not. It's why busy restaurants do everything they can to set expectations and accommodate such as telling you that you can go to the bar area while you wait. I will say that many of the busiest restaurants actually have some of the best service. Which is a big part of why they are successful.

It'd be more like a mechanic who is busy working on cars not calling back or responding to potential new customers who want their car fixed. The key is setting expectations and making everything known up front and giving the customer the option to determine if he is ok with those circumstances

[verderraul]

[quote name='Timanator' timestamp='1411137984' post='10147047']
When you goto a really good restaurant, and there is a line, you have 2 choices. Wait or go somewhere else not so good.

Thats life, people have priorities. And Geoff's is his current students. Any time I call or text I get a reply, and if you do not have a relationship with the man, and he does not get back to you asap. You have that choice.

But he is the best, and I'm sticking to that.
[/quote]

And we are talking elbulli , noma here

[jurr80]

Dan:

I'm not going to go too deep into Geoff's business, but I want to throw out some perspective.
First off, workload.

The guy gets to the site at 8-9 o'clock, and he usually has 3 or 4 students with him from all over the world. They stay at his house.
The students get started, and the guy is helping them (recording footage, giving analysis, providing drills). Around the clock, students from the area are also trickling in for a lesson. This happens ALL DAY LONG. Most days I have stayed with him, this goes on until 10 at night. This goes on seven days a week. Every single day.

Combine that with the fact that he's doing lessons in NY.
He is even busier there than he is back home.

Combine THAT with the fact that he takes time to travel to different areas of the country to support his pro students at tournaments.

Combine THAT with the fact that he has TWO children, one of which is a top notch competitive golfer.

Despite all of this, he is readily available to text with a question about the swing or to give a quick answer about what to drill down off of iphone video.

He is more than generous with his time. He charges INCREDIBLY LESS per hour than he should.

I doubt that Geoff is worried about his "business model". He gets to wake up every day in a small town, surrounded by a freakin' UN convention of students, and he gets to talk golf while helping folks out. Those of us that make the effort to work with him appreciate his time and know that we are blessed to have a friend, coach, and mentor like him.

Would having a more complex system help keep him more organized? Would it help him generate more income? Probably. Does his demand way outrace his "supply"? Yup.

The man does the best he can with the demands placed upon him, and he keeps things simple because that is the way he wants to operate. When students are understanding of this and are patient, they get a chance to learn from a phenomenal man who truly takes a vested interest in their improvement as golfers and individuals. All of this happens at a price that is incredibly fair.

[J13]

Jurr80- Geoff is a great instructor no doubt but if he is booked solid and doesn't have time for new students then just let people know that. It's not hard to post on your website or set an autoresponse via email. EASY things to do that require zero effort on his end. No one is questioning his work ethic or skill.

[iteachgolf]

His workload is self inflected and highly doubt it is more than mine or many others. I have had people from China, Australia, and England all in the last 2 weeks. Literally people fly in from all over daily on top of having multiple juniors in the top 50 of junior rankings and many others trying to get there on a regular basis. Plenty of pros sprinkled in as well and hour lessons to give to members and locals. Throw in all the online lessons I have to do daily that most others don't do my workload is as big as anyones. I would say that doubling up on lessons and having too many people there at one time is part of the issue as well. Like I said being spread too thin causes issues with putting things and people that should be priorities on the back burner. This is why I book my lessons by hour blocks and when that person has that hour they have me 100% attention and focus. Everybody around knows that they don't interrupt someone else's time because when its their turn they will get the same courtesy. Trying to walk down the lime and teach multiple people at a given time throughout the day and give equal time to everyone involved is a recipe for making some very happy and others disappointed. I think Geoff is a great guy and have absolutely nothing wrong with him. I just think that one should at the minimum acknowledge your customers and set reasonable expectations. BTW I know plenty who were current students of his who couldn't get a response for weeks or months.

[PreppySlapCut]

He needs an assistant.

[Timanator]

Dan, Geoff has never been banned from Golfwrx for questionable behaviors, can you say the same about your self?

Besides, I am a student of Geoff Jones, and He gets back to me in a timely manner for his schedule. Which is normally with in 2-3 days, and thats even while he is traveling. Should I expect more as some one that sees him once per year?

[rteach1]

I went to see Geoff years ago for what I was told would be 2 days of private instruction. However, as has been posted, people from the area came wandering in constantly. When this happened, at least 5-6 times during the time that I thought would be private, Geoff would leave me to work on my own while he went to give instruction to these other students. When I finally objected, I was told that Geoff was watching me out of the corner of his eye. Before you ask, yes, I am absolutely positive that we had arranged for *private* instruction. Had I been told in advance that Geoff operated in this manner, I would never have flown to see him.

I know how this works: people will act as if I attacked their father or a deity. Before you do, ask yourself how you would react if you hired *any* professional and he permitted this. If you went to speak to a lawyer, would it be o.k. with you if he allowed 5-6 other clients to walk into the middle of your time with him?

For those of you who have been helped by Geoff, great. His actions with me were unprofessional and flat-out wrong.

rteach1

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='Timanator' timestamp='1411175676' post='10150667']
Dan, Geoff has never been banned from Golfwrx for questionable behaviors, can you say the same about your self?

Besides, I am a student of Geoff Jones, and He gets back to me in a timely manner for his schedule. Which is normally with in 2-3 days, and thats even while he is traveling. Should I expect more as some one that sees him once per year?
[/quote]
I have never been banned or even suspended from golfwrx. Thanx for ensenuating so though.

I respond to everyone within 24 hours, many times within a few hours, whether they are regulars or have never once come to see me or given me a dime. To me yes 2-3 days is way too long to wait. I turn around online lessons within 24-48 hours while on the road traveling which take infinitely longer than a email or text. Not everyone shares the same definition of good customer service but I know what mine is.

[J13]

[quote name='rteach1' timestamp='1411176162' post='10150707']
I went to see Geoff years ago for what I was told would be 2 days of private instruction. However, as has been posted, people from the area came wandering in constantly. When this happened, at least 5-6 times during the time that I thought would be private, Geoff would leave me to work on my own while he went to give instruction to these other students. When I finally objected, I was told that Geoff was watching me out of the corner of his eye. Before you ask, yes, I am absolutely positive that we had arranged for *private* instruction. Had I been told in advance that Geoff operated in this manner, I would never have flown to see him.

I know how this works: people will act as if I attacked their father or a deity. Before you do, ask yourself how you would react if you hired *any* professional and he permitted this. If you went to speak to a lawyer, would it be o.k. with you if he allowed 5-6 other clients to walk into the middle of your time with him?

For those of you who have been helped by Geoff, great. His actions with me were unprofessional and flat-out wrong.

rteach1
[/quote]

Your not the first person to have this experience. Geoff over extends himself bottom line but he's a good instructor. If I paid money for private instruction you better believe I want private instruction, when I hear about him doing this it blows my mind.

[shanksalot]

Marshall's where are you?

I vote for the thread being locked

[Golfah]

I think there is a time-management issue at play. I have seen Geoff when we started early and I had his undivided attention for hours and he commented on every shot. I learned more about the golf swing in one day than 20 yrs of study. I have seen Geoff when he took hours to get himself ready to go, chit-chat, "life lessons", became easily distracted by other students (or even folks who just wandered in), and all the while I'm chomping at the bit thinking of the commitment of time, effort and money I put in to see him. I did not learn as much from that lesson, and I felt bad for the backlog of students who started showing up. However, part of the buy-in with Geoff is the big personality and unfortunately it cuts both ways sometimes. I think if he ran his operation like a swiss watch, he would be very unhappy, and honestly, it's part of the fun of the experience.

That being said, I think the lack of a book is not for lack of a finished product. Think about it. Your entire livelihood going forward depends on a certain set of information you worked your entire life to obtain, you have a niche of people willing to line up to pay for your "special expertise", and you have competitors all around you in the arena of ideas. Would you make it available for everyone for a one-time payoff of questionable amount? Maybe 1:100th of GolfWRX is not going to make it a New York Times bestseller.

[JustTheTips]

[quote name='Golfah' timestamp='1411182905' post='10151309']

That being said, I think the lack of a book is not for lack of a finished product. Think about it. Your entire livelihood going forward depends on a certain set of information you worked your entire life to obtain, you have a niche of people willing to line up to pay for your "special expertise", and you have competitors all around you in the arena of ideas. Would you make it available for everyone for a one-time payoff of questionable amount? Maybe 1:100th of GolfWRX is not going to make it a New York Times bestseller.
[/quote]

If the book is remotely decent, it would double the line out the door. No book has enough secrets to prevent people from wanting to see the master. Now if it is remotely worthwhile to write a book is another question. I would vote not from my experiences in other fields.

[dpb5031]

Some terrible professional jealousy on display in this thread along with a thinly veiled attempt at self promotion. The old backhanded compliment...preface with a few compliments before taking a shot. Embarassing...

Everyone, including golf instructors, has strengths and weaknesses. Geoff is a great teacher and his track record speaks for itself, but he'd be the first to admit that he's not for everyone.

Very lame that another instructor would come into this thread and take an unprovoked shot, and in my view it speaks volumes about character, or lack thereof...

[Darth Leverage]

I don't believe Iteach has said anything out of order. For those who cannot get a response off Geoff go see Fort Worth Pro.

Geoff clearly works too hard to cope with his enquiries. Hire a PA? If you are paying 100% of the lesson fee, you want 100% attention including follow ups

[jhoffy22]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1411131454' post='10146427']
This isn't about Geoff specifically but more so a problem I see all over the golf industry and other industries. People spread themselves too thin, service starts to drop off, and then business is affect as well as personal health quality of life.
[/quote]

Quite an interesting paradigm. Many great services have died off for this sole reason alone. Since you said you are into cars, an example comes to mind. A few years ago when I was a part of a large Acura forum, we had no tuning or forced induction options available for our 2007-2008 TL-s. A guy came along with an MS3 and a Precision 62 turbo with all of the plumbing and included a safe and reliable tune.

Things were great for about 3 months but he was way over his head and couldn't keep up with the demand. The kit itself was great. He just got overwhelmed and couldn't keep up with the demand and was a 1 man operation so eventually it came to people having to wait 6-8 months for kits until he couldn't fulfill all of the orders and the service died all together. Surprisingly, nobody has filled the demand to this day.

It's the same problem small businesses have when they are growing so rapidly that they don't have time to hire and train new personnel. This sort of thing has to be planned for from the beginning. It's a choice you make as a service provider from the beginning on how you want to handle your operations. He doesn't actively advertise his services here so it's not like he's in the wrong. It would be different if he was aggressively advertising and then slow to respond.

[jurr80]

I get it. Some guys don't understand the concept of working hard and achieving a task without a babysitter.
Geoff shows you what you are needing to work on. He gives you countless examples. He helps you establish a feel.
He then watches you do the drill/swing idea/etc for a period of time. He then expects you to work for the next amount of time on that concept.

If a guy is in TXK for a lesson, he is there all day. Not 8-12 PM like some instructors who call that a "one day clinic".
In any one day, I will start at 8:30 with Geoff, get the "keys for the day", then get to work. He fills in the gaps and answers questions that I have during the day. We finish at 9-10 PM. At some point during the day, he films again to show me what I am getting better at. It all goes on a DVD that goes home with me. During a three day stay, I go home with tons of information.

For those that do a three day school, they go home with 6 hours of video taken during the time they were there. He records it as he talks. You get short game, mental game, full swing, drills, and your personal swing plan.

To spend 3 days with someone of Geoff's expertise...to stay at his freaking HOUSE...to get a chance to hit unlimited balls...to get his videos custom made to you....and to get to work with him from 8AM to 10PM every day of that trip (not 4 hours)...excuse me if you have to possibly wait for an hour at times to get an update on your progress.

If you are incapable of working on a swing drill for 60 minutes with focus, trying to get the right feel, then maybe you aren't serious about making real changes. You obviously have an expectation that the guy will wave his wand and grant you a golf swing.

It does NOT work that way. In any one day with Geoff, you get much more than 4 hours of his time. And checking the costs of some of the other "pros" I've seen, I wohld say that Geoff is a flat out BARGAIN.

[eightiron]

[quote name='Darth Fader2' timestamp='1411218659' post='10152367']
I don't believe Iteach has said anything out of order. For those who cannot get a response off Geoff go see Fort Worth Pro.

Geoff clearly works too hard to cope with his enquiries. Hire a PA? If you are paying 100% of the lesson fee, you want 100% attention including follow ups
[/quote]

I think there was a problem of a group of people including a dentist who was caught cheating in a tourney , that we're trying to poach slicefixer students

[russc1597187869]

DSM-V is the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders that is used by mental health professionals

301.81--NARCISSISTIC PERSONALITY DISORDER
Let me quote some of descriptions of this disorder

They routinely overestimate their abilities and inflate their accomplishments
They have a grandiose sense of self importance,often appearing boastful and pretentious
Their self esteem is often very fragile
They lack empathy
They are often contemptuous and impatient with others
Arrogant ,haughty behaviors characterize these people

Some of the posters on this current golf topic seem to exhibit some or all of the above characteristics,but obviously the ONLY way to tell is to schedule a visit with a certified psychologist or psychiatrist.If you are in the Northern New jersey area,I can help arrange such a visit

[Darth Leverage]

Carefull eight....Sensitive lot the Texarkana mafia

[eightiron]

[quote name='russc' timestamp='1411223146' post='10152577']
DSM-V is the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders that is used by mental health professionals

301.81--NARCISSISTIC PERSONALITY DISORDER
Let me quote some of descriptions of this disorder

They routinely overestimate their abilities and inflate their accomplishments
They have a grandiose sense of self importance,often appearing boastful and pretentious
Their self esteem is often very fragile
They lack empathy
They are often contemptuous and impatient with others
Arrogant ,haughty behaviors characterize these people

Some of the posters on this current golf topic seem to exhibit some or all of the above characteristics,but obviously the ONLY way to tell is to schedule a visit with a certified psychologist or psychiatrist.If you are in the Northern New jersey area,I can help arrange such a visit
[/quote]

So you have experience with psych professionals?

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='dpb5031' timestamp='1411217503' post='10152299']
Some terrible professional jealousy on display in this thread along with a thinly veiled attempt at self promotion. The old backhanded compliment...preface with a few compliments before taking a shot. Embarassing...

Everyone, including golf instructors, has strengths and weaknesses. Geoff is a great teacher and his track record speaks for itself, but he'd be the first to admit that he's not for everyone.

Very lame that another instructor would come into this thread and take an unprovoked shot, and in my view it speaks volumes about character, or lack thereof...
[/quote]

What could I possibly be jealous of? I can assure you there is no jealousy involved, certainly not from a business standpoint as I'm as busy as I would ever want to be and turn down lessons all the time due to not being able to fit 12 hours into a 10 hour day. You can think whatever you want of my character. There was no backhanded compliment. I truly think he is a great teacher and a great guy. But that also doesn't mean that I think it's right for anyone in any business to take multiple days to get back to a current customer and completely ignore potential customers that contact you because you are busy. The response was to your "one man show" comment as if every other instructor out there except a handful aren't "one man shows". And if being a one man show means you can't keep up than maybe you should hire someone to pick up the slack