Anti-Semitism/Racism in Boston-Area Private Clubs

[FensterBos]

My wife and I are interested in joining a club for the 2013 season. My family has been in Boston since the 1940s; during those times private golf clubs were well-known to exclude Jewish and minorities from joining as members. A few clubs have been started that cater specifically to those groups or known to be accepting of all cultures, but their locations or not ideal for where my wife and I live. There are a few clubs outside of Boston that I am interested in seeking membership, but they have had a bad rap for being culturally exclusive.

I know that this can be a touchy subject, but I am the type of person that wants to associate my family with a welcoming community and open ideals. I judge a person by their integrity and personality. Have private golf clubs in the Boston area, such as Newton, Brookline, and off of 128/I-95, still carry a tradition of being culturally selective or are they more welcoming of all ethnicities and religions. Can you suggest any methods on finding out if a club is culturally exclusive?

Thank you!

[Shemp]

Belmont Country Club. Great Donald Ross track, large Jewish membership. Blue Hills CC also has a significant Jewish population amongst members. I have a hard time believing that places like Charles River, Woodlands, Brae Burn still have an anti-semitic atmosphere, though I'm not Jewish and when I play there as a guest I always feel welcome. I think most Boston area courses treat you according to who you are. If you're a good guy to play with you'll be welcomed. If you're a jerk, high maintenance, rude... you won't.

[profsmitty]

Members, it is obvious that this thread has the potential to "go south" (no pun intended) very quickly. Please remember that GolfWRX reserves the right to remove any post that is deemed unacceptable, insulting, inflammatory, and/or is off-topic in any way. It is our goal to "take the high road". We will do everything we can to make sure that every post in this thread adheres to this standard.

[FensterBos]

[quote name='Shemp' timestamp='1358621942' post='6260223']
Belmont Country Club. Great Donald Ross track, large Jewish membership. Blue Hills CC also has a significant Jewish population amongst members. I have a hard time believing that places like Charles River, Woodlands, Brae Burn still have an anti-semitic atmosphere, though I'm not Jewish and when I play there as a guest I always feel welcome. I think most Boston area courses treat you according to who you are. If you're a good guy to play with you'll be welcomed. If you're a jerk, high maintenance, rude... you won't.
[/quote]
I agree - if I am denied membership into a club I want it to be because I don't live up to their standards. Of course, I'm a pretty laid back guy and don't take myself that seriously, so I'd be cautious about joining a club that has extreme and rigorous application processes.

[Sean2]

I live in the Boston area. I always thought it was whether or not you had the money to join!

[Thrillhouse]

I'm not saying any still do have policies like that, and I'm completely unfamiliar with anything to do with the Boston area, but I would think that any club that had any sort of restriction on who could join would be invitation only.

It seems like it would be so much of a hassle to have an open membership yet restrict people. That being said its 2012, not 1930, I'd like to think we have moved past such things.

[AFcelica]

There is a private club in my hometown ( hosting the 2015 Womens US Open ) that at least 10 years ago still refused to allow Jewish people ( not sure about minorities ) to be members. not sure about now, but i would hope they have woken up by now, especially with the publicity they will be getting in 2015.

having said that I am also not familiar with boston and actually have never been there but i would think the best way to find out would probably be to Email the membership board or if you happen to know any members of a particular club ask them.

[Thrillhouse]

I'd advise against contacting membership boards to ask if they have racist or discriminatory practices at their club.

[AFcelica]

[quote name='Thrillhouse' timestamp='1358629475' post='6260787']
I'd advise against contacting membership boards to ask if they have racist or discriminatory practices at their club.
[/quote]

well i wouldn't word it like that lol. I was more thinking of asking them if they have any membership restrictions

[Thrillhouse]

[quote name='AFcelica' timestamp='1358629952' post='6260823']
[quote name='Thrillhouse' timestamp='1358629475' post='6260787']
I'd advise against contacting membership boards to ask if they have racist or discriminatory practices at their club.
[/quote]

well i wouldn't word it like that lol. I was more thinking of asking them if they have any membership restrictions
[/quote]

My point is that I doubt they would admit it if they did, and even if they did they'd probably get offended by the question.

[AFcelica]

doesn't almost every club have some sort of membership rules/restrictions? whether it be money, rounds per year, race/religion etc? it couldn't hurt to ask, if you are worried about them being offended email them under a pseudonym

[Thrillhouse]

[quote name='AFcelica' timestamp='1358631589' post='6260951']
doesn't almost every club have some sort of membership rules/restrictions? whether it be money, rounds per year, race/religion etc? it couldn't hurt to ask, if you are worried about them being offended email them under a pseudonym
[/quote]

Yeah but there is a big difference between saying "we don't let juniors play before 2pm on the weekends" and "we have a policy that systematically excludes people based on race or religion."

Hey, if you want to go around asking private clubs those sort of questions it's your business, all I'm saying is I wouldn't and if someone asked me if they should I would advise against it.

[pingfool]

to OP:

not sure if you are anticipating a problem - based on heresay? (from the 1940's?

or, have you actually encountered discrimination @ particular club?

sounds like you may have a few clubs in mind....

prefer to avoid stereotypes here - and avoid broad-brushing any group

let's just say this - there are snobs at almost any upscale private club - in every city

and there are some great family-oriented clubs where most of the membership are there to relax and enjoy the game - no matter what your ethnicity is.

[FensterBos]

In regards to asking the board/recruitment I wasn't planning on blatantly asking, "So, African-Americans and Jews, yea or nea?" But I think it is completely appropriate to ask how diverse their membership is if it is something that is important to the individual.
tmfool does bring up a good point, though, I am looking for a family-oriented club that has activities for my daughter and gives my wife something to do as well. I do have a few clubs in mind and I've even talked to one or two, but I've heard some "heresay" about one or two that were discriminatory toward some groups of people. But who knows - it is 2013, Augusta just initiated two women into what used to be one of the most discriminated private clubs in the US. I suppose the best way to find out is to begin the application process and if I start getting a feeling that I am being discriminated against or start noticing signs of that behavior than I'll back away.
I appreciate the honest opinions on this thread and I wasn't trying to ruffle any feathers or bad-mouth specific clubs. I just don't have much to experience at any of these clubs, nor do I have any knowledge about local clubs other than the heresay mentioned by tmfool, which is why I began this thread in the first place.

[DLiver]

The kind of discrimination the OP is asking about still exists in Boston Area golf and country clubs.

[profsmitty]

[quote name='FensterBos' timestamp='1358620963' post='6260163']
My wife and I are interested in joining a club for the 2013 season. . . . Have private golf clubs in the Boston area, such as Newton, Brookline, and off of 128/I-95, still carry a tradition of being culturally selective or are they more welcoming of all ethnicities and religions[?]. Can you suggest any methods on finding out if a club is culturally exclusive?
Thank you!
[/quote]
I am reposting OPs questions. Any responses that do not address one of these two questions will not be on topic and may be deleted. Thank you.

[mshills]

There is no way to just ask, and quite frankly, the questions posed by the OP show a certain level of naïveté. If the OP is actually looking to join one of the high-end clubs in Newton, Brookline, or similar, OP is not going to be helped by a message board.

If you are considering membership, I would hope that you know some of the members and have spent time around the prospective club. By this point it ought to be obvious to you if the club has exclusionary policies or unwelcoming attitudes...

[FensterBos]

I will say that mshills isn't inaccurate on my level of "[color=#282828]naïveté". My family were never members of any country clubs and only one or two of my friends belonged to clubs - of the one that still belongs to one, I probably wouldn't seek membership in that club. Thus, I seek the opinions of the online universe to see if anyone has any knowledge or experience in the private clubs in the Boston area.[/color]
[color="#282828"]That being said, I understand the exclusivity of the high-end clubs around Boston and as mentioned previously I would actually be more comfortable in a more casual atmosphere. There are a few clubs I am interested in reaching out to where I am confident that I am an adequate candidate for membership, but have heard rumors of discrimination (see: heresay). I did not want single any specific club out nor insult their members, which is why I have been vague in some ways. I know using this forum as a method of research isn't perfect, but I don't have much to work with right now. [/color]

[station2station]

[quote name='Thrillhouse' timestamp='1358629475' post='6260787']
I'd advise against contacting membership boards to ask if they have racist or discriminatory practices at their club.
[/quote]

Agreed…and what year are we living in??

[pingfool]

[quote name='mshills' timestamp='1358640098' post='6261655']
There is no way to just ask, and quite frankly, the questions posed by the OP show a certain level of naïveté. If the OP is actually looking to join one of the high-end clubs in Newton, Brookline, or similar, OP is not going to be helped by a message board.

If you are considering membership, I would hope that you know some of the members and have spent time around the prospective club. By this point it ought to be obvious to you if the club has exclusionary policies or unwelcoming attitudes...
[/quote]

agree w/ naivete premise....which is why i posed several questions in my 1st post

and also agree exclusionary policies should be obvious - if you due diligence.

hate to put this out there - but i just feel like this is very strange way to research potential country club memberships - relative to potential bias

[Dill Pickleson]

I'm surprised this sort of thing would even cross your mind before applying for a membership. It shouldn't even be an issue, it's 2013.

[FensterBos]

You think it wouldn't be an issue, but I've been surprised with random displays of discrimination.
Anyway, the reason for me starting this thread was to put the old reputations in the past; outside of a few members commenting on my methods in a negative way I am encouraged by the responses.

[Sean2]

Well, I live in a very blue collar town. I'm sure if I tried to join one of those clubs, and they saw my address, it might give them pause. There is more than one kind of "distinction". I've played at some nice courses and people will ask me what town I live in and when I tell them there is just the tiniest of pauses and a kind of "oh".

[dplevin]

[quote name='Thrillhouse' timestamp='1358627347' post='6260619']
I'm not saying any still do have policies like that, and I'm completely unfamiliar with anything to do with the Boston area, but I would think that any club that had any sort of restriction on who could join would be invitation only.

It seems like it would be so much of a hassle to have an open membership yet restrict people. That being said its [s][b]2012 [/b][/s][b]2013 (happens to everyone the first month of the year)[/b], not 1930, I'd like to think we have moved past such things.
[/quote]

Profsmitty, I know it's off topic, but...

[highergr0und]

Obviously you don't want to get admitted to a place where the membership won't treat you right, but I would make appointments at any club that catches your eye and feel it out. It's the only way you'll know for sure. Talk to staff, talk to members, heck get a look at the member list, possibly off of a handicap posting or tournament results.

[KYMAR]

OP i might make an effort to identify a hand full of places that interest you based on the things you're looking for and then, hit the internet HARD and do your homework. If any of the places on that short list have had issues with this abhorrent behavior, I am sure it will have been posted on a variety of outlets. Don't be shy about calling on trusted friends, even those who don't play the game. They may have other friends who do and were part of a conversation that would be a red flag for you. This information is out there and you will have to find it for yourself I am afraid. [size=4]As for the cries of "hey it's 2013. That doesn't happen!" that is beyond naive. [/size]

[Fore_Man]

[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1358706241' post='6265365']
Well, I live in a very blue collar town. I'm sure if I tried to join one of those clubs, and they saw my address, it might give them pause. There is more than one kind of "distinction". I've played at some nice courses and people will ask me what town I live in and when I tell them there is just the tiniest of pauses and a kind of "oh".
[/quote]

Funny you say that Sean. I'm in So.NH and there are some MA towns that carry that stigma and most are the known blue collar areas. Dracut is one that comes to mind. Where are you Sean?

[Sean2]

[quote name='Fore_Man' timestamp='1358711204' post='6265745']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1358706241' post='6265365']
Well, I live in a very blue collar town. I'm sure if I tried to join one of those clubs, and they saw my address, it might give them pause. There is more than one kind of "distinction". I've played at some nice courses and people will ask me what town I live in and when I tell them there is just the tiniest of pauses and a kind of "oh".
[/quote]

Funny you say that Sean. I'm in So.NH and there are some MA towns that carry that stigma and most are the known blue collar areas. Dracut is one that comes to mind. Where are you Sean?
[/quote]

Fore_Man I live on the South Shore in a town called Weymouth. I'll give you an example. Next door is a town called Hingham. Very nice, very well heeled. They were building a shopping area in an old shipyard in Hingham and there was talk of putting in a small theater as well. In the Hingham paper one letter to the editor was opposed to said theater because it might, and I quote, "attract the riff-raff from Weymouth." :-)

[KYMAR]

[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1358712452' post='6265829']
[quote name='Fore_Man' timestamp='1358711204' post='6265745']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1358706241' post='6265365']
Well, I live in a very blue collar town. I'm sure if I tried to join one of those clubs, and they saw my address, it might give them pause. There is more than one kind of "distinction". I've played at some nice courses and people will ask me what town I live in and when I tell them there is just the tiniest of pauses and a kind of "oh".
[/quote]

Funny you say that Sean. I'm in So.NH and there are some MA towns that carry that stigma and most are the known blue collar areas. Dracut is one that comes to mind. Where are you Sean?
[/quote]

Fore_Man I live on the South Shore in a town called Weymouth. I'll give you an example. Next door is a town called Hingham. Very nice, very well heeled. They were building a shopping area in an old shipyard in Hingham and there was talk of putting in a small theater as well. In the Hingham paper one letter to the editor was opposed to said theater because it might, and I quote, "attract the riff-raff from Weymouth." :-)
[/quote]

LOL sometimes sean all you can do is laugh at these things. I sorta get a visual of some ancient Blue hair women, in some thousand year old Brownstone bought with very old money sitting at her writing desk and rolling the top back "My Dearest Editor...." What a joke! Come to Cleveland Sean, My local movie theater and the restaurants around it would welcome your Weymouth money! [size=4] [/size]

[Fore_Man]

Oh yes I'm famiar with Hingham. Super nice area, was just in Hull a couple months ago. Had to drive through Hingham to get to a friends house which is right under the wind turbine lol.