The Arm Swing Illusion / Jim Waldron's Swing Philosophy

[JPGolf FL]

If chopping wood is the analogy for the player model....What would the down swing feel for the pro model be? For someone who shallows the shaft that is.

[Ezgolfer]

I now have a feeling that there is a certain angle for each club at which the up motion blends well with shoulder turn . I think if you push the club at that angle the shoulder turn will be easy and somewhat automated so that both motions will blend nicely . Practice and range time should help with that .

With the up motion my brain tells me to open the clubface a little, while pushing at 45 degrees. This may have to do with the slight forearm rotation . Is it okay to do so ?
I have a cupped left wrist at the top as well ( may be my weak grip )

Thanks

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='JPeacockGolf' timestamp='1367597591' post='6964314']
If chopping wood is the analogy for the player model....What would the down swing feel for the pro model be? For someone who shallows the shaft that is.
[/quote]

Kind of like using an axe to chop down a tree, ie aiming a slightly more sidearm blow at the base of the tree trunk.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='Ezgolfer' timestamp='1367599041' post='6964426']
I now have a feeling that there is a certain angle for each club at which the up motion blends well with shoulder turn . I think if you push the club at that angle the shoulder turn will be easy and somewhat automated so that both motions will blend nicely . Practice and range time should help with that .

With the up motion my brain tells me to open the clubface a little, while pushing at 45 degrees. This may have to do with the slight forearm rotation . Is it okay to do so ?
I have a cupped left wrist at the top as well ( may be my weak grip )

I prefer the clubface to stay square to the arc for most part on takeaway. Grip type does have an influence. Slightly strong in the left hand, and neutral in the right is the model grip for most of my students. The upper arms rotate clockwise in the shoulder sockets naturally a little during the pushaway so that is likely what you are feeling. Just don't overdo it. You achieve a flat left wrist by hingeing the right wrist back toward the forearm as you c0ck both wrists up.

Thanks
[/quote]

[filthee]

[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1367550418' post='6962003']
[quote name='Cwebb' timestamp='1367542173' post='6961153']
[quote name='Ezgolfer' timestamp='1367528663' post='6959971']
[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1367500375' post='6956761']
The Right Arm Angle Illusion version of this is that the angle in your right arm at the elbow - about 75-90 degrees at the Top, will release mostly in the vertical dimension, ie downward - and very little in the horizontal dimension, unless you are using the Pro Model transition move of shaft flattening, and even then it is still mostly in the downward dimension - like chopping wood with an axe. When you are under the spell of the Illusion, you will release mostly in the horizontal dimension, which can result in big wipe slices or even the opposite, snap hooks, depending on how your forearms rotate as you release the angle.

The reason the clubhead will NOT actually come into the ground on a vertical 90 degree angle is that your Pivot shallows out the angle of attack.
[/quote]

This paragraph is so well written....The great thing about jim is ability to communicate,.. explaining these illusions
And able to describe the feels , essence of a great teacher in any field..
Very well stated..
Chopping the wood is what I feel now and a feeling of cramped up somewhat.
My mind finds it hard to believe that I can hit an iron or wood with a downward chop.
But surprisingly I am making very good contact..
Will continue to work on this stuff..
Pre shot rehearsal swings are very helpful.
Chopping the wood ..scissor action...
[/quote]

Isn't it ironic that "chopping" at a golf ball can actually be a good thing
[/quote]

Actually you don't really chop at the "ball" - if you are working on the downward dimension of wrists un-c0cking, [b]your aiming point for the clubhead is on your toe line, basically where the club would hit the ground if you fully un-c0cked at P6 without pivoting at all[/b]. The Pivot brings the Low Point forward to a bit target-side of the ball.
[/quote]

Jim I'm having trouble understanding the bolded part. Is there another way to say that for dumber folk like me?

[Jim Waldron]

Jim I'm having trouble understanding the bolded part. Is there another way to say that for dumber folk like me?


Sure - this is a Wrist Illusion drill, NOT an actual real golf swing. For folks who are Ball-Bound and who flip their wrists sideways during Release. From P6 or Halfway Down position, you simply freeze your body and tap the ground with only your wrists unc0cking, three taps, and then make a normal swing starting at that P6 position, and "intend" to tap the same spot on the ground over your toe line. You really will not do that since your Pivot will move the Low Point, the place where the club hits the ground, forward to target-side of the ball. This is our Woodchopping Drill. Make sure you keep the angle in back of right wrist intact as you do the tapping.

[filthee]

Awesome thank you. When you say 'take a normal swing starting from that P6 position,' I assume that means start the backswing from the P6, NOT try a chopped off follow through swing from the P6 position. I.E. take a full backswing from P6 then try to hit the spot you just tapped 3 times.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='filthee' timestamp='1367607572' post='6965274']
Awesome thank you. When you say 'take a normal swing starting from that P6 position,' I assume that means start the backswing from the P6, NOT try a chopped off follow through swing from the P6 position. I.E. take a full backswing from P6 then try to hit the spot you just tapped 3 times.
[/quote]

Yes = start your normal full backswing from P6 position.

[SimonC]

Thanks for this thread Jim, I've only just came across it but I think this may well apply to me. I'm currently playing of 5 in the UK but I'm so inconsistent and I really feel as though I have a lot lower handicap in me than where I currently am.

I've attached a video below where I look as though I'm sucking the arms in instead of out and up at the start of the swing. Also I know you don't want to get into the downswing but I get stuck and really steepen the shaft. Will bringing the right and left elbows closer together on the downswing help with this? Or do I just need to get the left arm working more out and down on the downswing? Will turning the hips too quickly cause the above issues as this is how I've been starting the downswing sequence?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm struggling to find the cash & time to see a pro at the moment hence why I'm asking for some help.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvYR39tYgZU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

It's not the best quality video, another typically dull day in England.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='SimonC' timestamp='1367652570' post='6968530']
Thanks for this thread Jim, I've only just came across it but I think this may well apply to me. I'm currently playing of 5 in the UK but I'm so inconsistent and I really feel as though I have a lot lower handicap in me than where I currently am.

I've attached a video below where I look as though I'm sucking the arms in instead of out and up at the start of the swing. Also I know you don't want to get into the downswing but I get stuck and really steepen the shaft. Will bringing the right and left elbows closer together on the downswing help with this? Or do I just need to get the left arm working more out and down on the downswing? Will turning the hips too quickly cause the above issues as this is how I've been starting the downswing sequence?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm struggling to find the cash & time to see a pro at the moment hence why I'm asking for some help.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvYR39tYgZU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

It's not the best quality video, another typically dull day in England.
[/quote]


Yeah, not much light in that video. Hips do seem a bit fast, that can cause being stuck for sure. You are ok on the backswing, your arms do not appear to be going way inside at all, pretty good on plane move on backswing. Sideways elbow pressure can help. You just need to learn how to tilt more and rotate the upper arms to flatten the shaft if you want to hit it farther.

Tough to analyze much more without doing a lesson with you and finding out more about your game, your goals, your misses, etc.

[SimonC]

[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1367655043' post='6968564']
[quote name='SimonC' timestamp='1367652570' post='6968530']
Thanks for this thread Jim, I've only just came across it but I think this may well apply to me. I'm currently playing of 5 in the UK but I'm so inconsistent and I really feel as though I have a lot lower handicap in me than where I currently am.

I've attached a video below where I look as though I'm sucking the arms in instead of out and up at the start of the swing. Also I know you don't want to get into the downswing but I get stuck and really steepen the shaft. Will bringing the right and left elbows closer together on the downswing help with this? Or do I just need to get the left arm working more out and down on the downswing? Will turning the hips too quickly cause the above issues as this is how I've been starting the downswing sequence?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm struggling to find the cash & time to see a pro at the moment hence why I'm asking for some help.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvYR39tYgZU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

It's not the best quality video, another typically dull day in England.
[/quote]


Yeah, not much light in that video. Hips do seem a bit fast, that can cause being stuck for sure. You are ok on the backswing, your arms do not appear to be going way inside at all, pretty good on plane move on backswing. Sideways elbow pressure can help. You just need how to tilt more and rotate the upper arms to flatten the shaft if you want to hit it farther.

Tough to analyze much more without doing a lesson with you and finding out more about your game, your goals, your misses, etc.
[/quote]

Thanks Jim I get the tilt bit as this should shallow the shaft a little instead of turning the hips to start the downswing. I'm not clear on what you mean when you say sideways elbow pressure? I assume I would have to rotate my upper arms clockwise in order to shallow the shaft out, is this correct?

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='SimonC' timestamp='1367655454' post='6968576']
[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1367655043' post='6968564']
[quote name='SimonC' timestamp='1367652570' post='6968530']
Thanks for this thread Jim, I've only just came across it but I think this may well apply to me. I'm currently playing of 5 in the UK but I'm so inconsistent and I really feel as though I have a lot lower handicap in me than where I currently am.

I've attached a video below where I look as though I'm sucking the arms in instead of out and up at the start of the swing. Also I know you don't want to get into the downswing but I get stuck and really steepen the shaft. Will bringing the right and left elbows closer together on the downswing help with this? Or do I just need to get the left arm working more out and down on the downswing? Will turning the hips too quickly cause the above issues as this is how I've been starting the downswing sequence?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm struggling to find the cash & time to see a pro at the moment hence why I'm asking for some help.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvYR39tYgZU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

It's not the best quality video, another typically dull day in England.
[/quote]


Yeah, not much light in that video. Hips do seem a bit fast, that can cause being stuck for sure. You are ok on the backswing, your arms do not appear to be going way inside at all, pretty good on plane move on backswing. Sideways elbow pressure can help. You just need how to tilt more and rotate the upper arms to flatten the shaft if you want to hit it farther.

Tough to analyze much more without doing a lesson with you and finding out more about your game, your goals, your misses, etc.
[/quote]

Thanks Jim I get the tilt bit as this should shallow the shaft a little instead of turning the hips to start the downswing. I'm not clear on what you mean when you say sideways elbow pressure? I assume I would have to rotate my upper arms clockwise in order to shallow the shaft out, is this correct?
[/quote]

I meant keeping the Triangle warp-free with sideways pressure. Perhaps you are referring to the right elbow drop and loop move on Transition to flatten the shaft? Yes - that is one way to flatten. Your right upper arm rotates externally and your left upper arm internally to flatten as well, so yes - clockwise.

[SimonC]

[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1367655805' post='6968584']
[quote name='SimonC' timestamp='1367655454' post='6968576']
[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1367655043' post='6968564']
[quote name='SimonC' timestamp='1367652570' post='6968530']
Thanks for this thread Jim, I've only just came across it but I think this may well apply to me. I'm currently playing of 5 in the UK but I'm so inconsistent and I really feel as though I have a lot lower handicap in me than where I currently am.

I've attached a video below where I look as though I'm sucking the arms in instead of out and up at the start of the swing. Also I know you don't want to get into the downswing but I get stuck and really steepen the shaft. Will bringing the right and left elbows closer together on the downswing help with this? Or do I just need to get the left arm working more out and down on the downswing? Will turning the hips too quickly cause the above issues as this is how I've been starting the downswing sequence?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm struggling to find the cash & time to see a pro at the moment hence why I'm asking for some help.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvYR39tYgZU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

It's not the best quality video, another typically dull day in England.
[/quote]


Yeah, not much light in that video. Hips do seem a bit fast, that can cause being stuck for sure. You are ok on the backswing, your arms do not appear to be going way inside at all, pretty good on plane move on backswing. Sideways elbow pressure can help. You just need how to tilt more and rotate the upper arms to flatten the shaft if you want to hit it farther.

Tough to analyze much more without doing a lesson with you and finding out more about your game, your goals, your misses, etc.
[/quote]

Thanks Jim I get the tilt bit as this should shallow the shaft a little instead of turning the hips to start the downswing. I'm not clear on what you mean when you say sideways elbow pressure? I assume I would have to rotate my upper arms clockwise in order to shallow the shaft out, is this correct?
[/quote]

I meant keeping the Triangle warp-free with sideways pressure. Perhaps you are referring to the right elbow drop and loop move on Transition to flatten the shaft? Yes - that is one way to flatten. Your right upper arm rotates externally and your left upper arm internally to flatten as well, so yes - clockwise.
[/quote]

Ok that makes more sense now with regards to the triangle. I try to drop my right elbow on the downswing but I tend to pull the handle and steepen the shaft. Would this tend to be because I lose the sideways elbow pressure when I pull the right elbow down?

[Jim Waldron]

You don't really pull down with the right elbow - it is moving toward mid-line which flattens the shaft, no way that can steepen the shaft. You may be cupping the left wrist which will steepen the shaft. You could try bowing the left wrist which also flattens.

[Stryker]

[quote name='Kiwi2' timestamp='1366915984' post='6916813']
[quote name='juststeve' timestamp='1366912237' post='6916469']
Kiwi2:

You wrote:

If we isolate the arm action from the pivot, they initially move at a 45 degree angle to the chest towards the
target line until, for a right handed golfer, the right arm reaches waist
high.

Is that what you meant to say?

Steve
[/quote]

Yes.

The pivot action is being disregarded here. The explanation relates to the arms independently. It is the only way I am aware of that the illusion can be explained. That is to isolate the arm movement.

Jim prefers the term move away rather than takeaway. In his model there is no independent arm action in the first part of this movement. The term move away implies a body motion. The belly is used to initiate the backswing after a rebound from what he calls the bump. The arms don’t come into it yet. There is no pushing away of the arms at that stage. The arms will move however as a result of connection of the left arm. [b]The independent arm motion kicks in when the hands reach the right hand side of the right leg[/b] .

The explanation was not describing the takeaway or backswing.
[/quote]

I think I missed a very important part, the bolded part of Kiwi's post. Jim, what happens if you initiate the 45* move to early? I'm guessing you'll be too outside the plane going back, anything else?

Also the arm movement in the 45* drill is greatly exaggerated compared to the actual movement in the back swing correct?

Kiwi's post regarding the last statement.....

[quote name='Kiwi2' timestamp='1366997797' post='6922987']

The arm movement in the backswing is actually very small. Jim describes it as tiny on the backswing. Three inches of movement of the end of the upper arm away from your torso and three inches up.The upper end is where the arm attaches to the shoulder socket.
[/quote]

[Cwebb]

[quote name='Stryker' timestamp='1367678767' post='6969422']
[quote name='Kiwi2' timestamp='1366915984' post='6916813']
[quote name='juststeve' timestamp='1366912237' post='6916469']
Kiwi2:

You wrote:

If we isolate the arm action from the pivot, they initially move at a 45 degree angle to the chest towards the
target line until, for a right handed golfer, the right arm reaches waist
high.

Is that what you meant to say?

Steve
[/quote]

Yes.

The pivot action is being disregarded here. The explanation relates to the arms independently. It is the only way I am aware of that the illusion can be explained. That is to isolate the arm movement.

Jim prefers the term move away rather than takeaway. In his model there is no independent arm action in the first part of this movement. The term move away implies a body motion. The belly is used to initiate the backswing after a rebound from what he calls the bump. The arms don’t come into it yet. There is no pushing away of the arms at that stage. The arms will move however as a result of connection of the left arm. [b]The independent arm motion kicks in when the hands reach the right hand side of the right leg[/b] .

The explanation was not describing the takeaway or backswing.
[/quote]

I think I missed a very important part, the bolded part of Kiwi's post. Jim, what happens if you initiate the 45* move to early? I'm guessing you'll be too outside the plane going back, anything else?

Also the 45* drill is greatly exaggerated compared to the actual movement in the back swing correct?
[/quote]

I would also be interested in a description of what the "bump" is, that I'm assuming is a swing trigger to initiate the takeaway?

[Jayman101]

Just video'd my swing for the first time in a long time. Jim, do you sell a pill to cure hit impulse? I've got a major case!

[hurst66]

Jim
Could we have the Illusion of the wrists thread please... with some footage.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='Stryker' timestamp='1367678767' post='6969422']
[quote name='Kiwi2' timestamp='1366915984' post='6916813']
[quote name='juststeve' timestamp='1366912237' post='6916469']
Kiwi2:

You wrote:

If we isolate the arm action from the pivot, they initially move at a 45 degree angle to the chest towards the
target line until, for a right handed golfer, the right arm reaches waist
high.

Is that what you meant to say?

Steve
[/quote]

Yes.

The pivot action is being disregarded here. The explanation relates to the arms independently. It is the only way I am aware of that the illusion can be explained. That is to isolate the arm movement.

Jim prefers the term move away rather than takeaway. In his model there is no independent arm action in the first part of this movement. The term move away implies a body motion. The belly is used to initiate the backswing after a rebound from what he calls the bump. The arms don’t come into it yet. There is no pushing away of the arms at that stage. The arms will move however as a result of connection of the left arm. [b]The independent arm motion kicks in when the hands reach the right hand side of the right leg[/b] .

The explanation was not describing the takeaway or backswing.
[/quote]

I think I missed a very important part, the bolded part of Kiwi's post. Jim, what happens if you initiate the 45* move to early? I'm guessing you'll be too outside the plane going back, anything else?

Also the arm movement in the 45* drill is greatly exaggerated compared to the actual movement in the back swing correct?

Kiwi's post regarding the last statement.....

[quote name='Kiwi2' timestamp='1366997797' post='6922987']

The arm movement in the backswing is actually very small. Jim describes it as tiny on the backswing. Three inches of movement of the end of the upper arm away from your torso and three inches up.The upper end is where the arm attaches to the shoulder socket.
[/quote]
[/quote]

Not an exaggeration with the arm pushaway in terms of actual range of motion - for most average build and height golfers, about 10-12 inches of movement of the hands out on that angle away for the body. The 3 inches Kiwi referenced is from the actual origin point of the motion, where upper arm connects to shoulder socket. Very little arm movement from that point - way less than the average person believes.

Yes - if too early with the arms, shaft and arms will be outside the ideal plane.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='Cwebb' timestamp='1367680992' post='6969532']
[quote name='Stryker' timestamp='1367678767' post='6969422']
[quote name='Kiwi2' timestamp='1366915984' post='6916813']
[quote name='juststeve' timestamp='1366912237' post='6916469']
Kiwi2:

You wrote:

If we isolate the arm action from the pivot, they initially move at a 45 degree angle to the chest towards the
target line until, for a right handed golfer, the right arm reaches waist
high.

Is that what you meant to say?

Steve
[/quote]

Yes.

The pivot action is being disregarded here. The explanation relates to the arms independently. It is the only way I am aware of that the illusion can be explained. That is to isolate the arm movement.

Jim prefers the term move away rather than takeaway. In his model there is no independent arm action in the first part of this movement. The term move away implies a body motion. The belly is used to initiate the backswing after a rebound from what he calls the bump. The arms don’t come into it yet. There is no pushing away of the arms at that stage. The arms will move however as a result of connection of the left arm. [b]The independent arm motion kicks in when the hands reach the right hand side of the right leg[/b] .

The explanation was not describing the takeaway or backswing.
[/quote]

I think I missed a very important part, the bolded part of Kiwi's post. Jim, what happens if you initiate the 45* move to early? I'm guessing you'll be too outside the plane going back, anything else?

Also the 45* drill is greatly exaggerated compared to the actual movement in the back swing correct?
[/quote]

I would also be interested in a description of what the "bump" is, that I'm assuming is a swing trigger to initiate the takeaway?
[/quote]

That just means the traditional body forward press - you bump your weight forward and then rebound back a tiny bit, kind of a rhythmic dance step, except your feet stay planted. Very small motion here, almost hard to see it. Most who try it way overdo it. There are other triggers that can work as well.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='Jayman101' timestamp='1367683763' post='6969710']
Just video'd my swing for the first time in a long time. Jim, do you sell a pill to cure hit impulse? I've got a major case!
[/quote]

Yes - our Hit Impulse Magic Pill is on sale this month for one million dollars - free shipping! We are also offering specials on Quick Fixes and Secrets.

Awareness is the beginning of the end of the Hit Impulse. It is NOT a mechanical flaw - it manifests as a mechanical flaw, but the Root Cause is 100% mental, and triggered by the mind frozen on the ball, the clubhead and anticipation of impact between the two.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='hurst66' timestamp='1367684438' post='6969738']
Jim
Could we have the Illusion of the wrists thread please... with some footage.
[/quote]

Time constraints make that a tough one for me. I still actually have to work for a living, do chores, workout two to three hours a day, hang with my wife, meditate, etc. Posting here is fun for me and I hope informative for the readers, but all I can do is offer a few tidbits. If you want the real deal, you need to take a lesson and if you really want it, you need to come see me in person.

[Stryker]

[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1367689309' post='6969966']

Not an exaggeration with the arm pushaway in terms of actual range of motion - for most average build and height golfers, about 10-12 inches of movement of the hands out on that angle away for the body. The 3 inches Kiwi referenced is from the actual origin point of the motion, where upper arm connects to shoulder socket. Very little arm movement from that point - way less than the average person believes.

Yes - if too early with the arms, shaft and arms will be outside the ideal plane.
[/quote]

Thanks Jim, much clearer for me now.

[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1367689429' post='6969974']
That just means the traditional body forward press - you bump your weight forward and then rebound back a tiny bit, kind of a rhythmic dance step, except your feet stay planted. Very small motion here, almost hard to see it. Most who try it way overdo it. There are other triggers that can work as well.
[/quote]

I think Matteo Manassero might have this trigger. Looks like that is what he is doing here....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6bREev1swQ

[sblack5]

[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1367689429' post='6969974']

That just means the traditional body forward press - you bump your weight forward and then rebound back a tiny bit, kind of a rhythmic dance step, except your feet stay planted. Very small motion here, almost hard to see it. Most who try it way overdo it. There are other triggers that can work as well.
[/quote]

this is what Sam Snead referred to as his starter move. he pushed off his right foot into his left instep so that he could push off his left foot to get everything going back together.

[Qegurezi]

[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1367689855' post='6969988']
[quote name='hurst66' timestamp='1367684438' post='6969738']
Jim
Could we have the Illusion of the wrists thread please... with some footage.
[/quote]

Time constraints make that a tough one for me. I still actually have to work for a living, do chores, workout two to three hours a day, hang with my wife, meditate, etc. Posting here is fun for me and I hope informative for the readers, but all I can do is offer a few tidbits. If you want the real deal, you need to take a lesson and if you really want it, you need to come see me in person.
[/quote]

And this is the thing at the end of the day. You've already gone over and above and we have to remember this is what brings food to the table.

[InaSilentWay]

I find the downward "chopping" motion too inside and too inside out with my hands jammed too close to my body. The pushing and lifting up at takeaway helps a lot. But on the downswing, I do better when the motion is more around instead of down. Maybe I'm naturally a one planer.

[hurst66]

[quote name='Qegurezi' timestamp='1367692593' post='6970160']
[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1367689855' post='6969988']
[quote name='hurst66' timestamp='1367684438' post='6969738']
Jim
Could we have the Illusion of the wrists thread please... with some footage.
[/quote]

Time constraints make that a tough one for me. I still actually have to work for a living, do chores, workout two to three hours a day, hang with my wife, meditate, etc. Posting here is fun for me and I hope informative for the readers, but all I can do is offer a few tidbits. If you want the real deal, you need to take a lesson and if you really want it, you need to come see me in person.
[/quote]

And this is the thing at the end of the day. You've already gone over and above and we have to remember this is what brings food to the table.
[/quote]I understand but this has been Gold. Will have to wait for the books.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='InaSilentWay' timestamp='1367692750' post='6970174']
I find the downward "chopping" motion too inside and too inside out with my hands jammed too close to my body. The pushing and lifting up at takeaway helps a lot. But on the downswing, I do better when the motion is more around instead of down. Maybe I'm naturally a one planer.
[/quote]

Once again, this just a Blending issue - the wrist un-c0cking down is only too much inside and too steep when your body is too slow relative that wrist motion. You need to speed up the body to be more on-plane.

One more thing on wrists - there are two basic types of Wrist release: active and passive. Active means that from a deep release point at P6, you fire the muscles in your forearms/wrists to throw the clubhead very fast down and out. Passive means that you do nothing with those muscles, and let centifugal force from your pivot snap open your wrist angles. I strongly advocate for a passive release for average golfers - it is the way the LPGA pros do it and takes less timing and forearm/wrist strength than the active release. Active wrist release tends to succumb to the Hit and/or Steering Impulses and almost always rsults in a too early release. Active release requires above average athletic ability to do well.

Wrist Illusion just means that from the standpoint of your wrist joints, they un-c0ck 90 degrees or nearly so to the ground. NOT sideways into the horizontal dimension. For some golfers, this is even harder to fathom than the Arm Illusion. It is the Number One cause of both wrist throwaway during transition and flipping wrists during Release.

[CSagan]

Mr. Waldron thanks for telling me earlier "its an awareness issue". This whole time I'm really trying to get it right and my positions look fine...but my timing/sequence is just a little off. I've been taught to have 2 modes of practice...self aware and target. But for some reason the aware part was never really fully aware. Just started reading this book "The Miracle of Mindfulness: A manual to meditation".

Reading the book and being mindful of what I'm doing at every moment in time. We ride to work thinking about all the day's issues and are not even aware that we are driving to work. Same with golf swing...we may be working on stuff...but may not be fully aware of our body. Doing slow motion swings each night and hitting balls with eyes closed has helped so much in a couple days. Tossed in some tempo drills and am having fun!

I'll put the pipe down now, kinda rambling..but thanks..you got me to open my mind and be (more) aware.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='sblack5' timestamp='1367692199' post='6970134']
[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1367689429' post='6969974']

That just means the traditional body forward press - you bump your weight forward and then rebound back a tiny bit, kind of a rhythmic dance step, except your feet stay planted. Very small motion here, almost hard to see it. Most who try it way overdo it. There are other triggers that can work as well.
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this is what Sam Snead referred to as his starter move. he pushed off his right foot into his left instep so that he could push off his left foot to get everything going back together.
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Yes, exactly. Most of the senior pros use this as their start of swing trigger. And - yes, Matteo is doing that move too. It's just one way. You can also shift your belly muscles left and then back to the right as your Trigger with no real weight shift like the forward press move uses. Or like Tiger - just shift belly to the right. There are pros and cons to each way. But you do need to find a Trigger as your ignition key and do it the same way on every shot. Your conscious mind saying "Okay, Jim - let's start the backswing NOW" is the absolute worst way to Trigger. You need a physical trigger, never a mental trigger. Meaning there needs to be Flow to how you start, ie a sequence of motion, and you need to have your mind in the right place as well, called Focal Point, just before you trigger and all the way to the Finish - only one Focal Point.