The NBA basketball thread 2013-2014

[mnplayer]

That's the thing about LeBron though, I really think he'll act like that never happened if he thinks he has a better chance to win in Cleveland. I don't think he cares about what other people think about him or what they've said or his legacy, he's just going ring chasing.

[scratchswinger]

Did you guys see this deal? I think Minn would be crazy not to take it, unless they can get a few first round picks. My only hesitation would be with getting Thompson is if he will walk once his contract is up. At least with picks you get the guys for more time.

So would Love sign the extension with GS or are they willing to roll the dice? I must have missed that.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11108483/golden-state-warriors-add-klay-thompson-possible-kevin-love-trade

[mnplayer]

I think Love, Barea, Martin, and a lottery pick for two guys who are most likely going to walk after two years is maybe too much. It is probably the best we're going to get for Love though.

[tocino]

As a warriros fan I'm acutally "Ok" with this deal, especially if the lottery pick is in this year's draft. I'd also want to make sure that Love signs long term as a condition of the trade (i don't want a repeat of the dwight howard/lakers issue)

[RJRJRJ]

[quote name='tocino' timestamp='1403216437' post='9534861']
As a warriros fan I'm acutally "Ok" with this deal, especially if the lottery pick is in this year's draft. I'd also want to make sure that Love signs long term as a condition of the trade (i don't want a repeat of the dwight howard/lakers issue)
[/quote]

I'd say its unlikely he signs an extension as it would be costing him a lot of money. He can only sign a 2 year extension (instead of 4-5 on a new deal a year from now). Also his max salary will be limited because he's in his sixth year and the max salary for 0-6 of experience years is lower than a 7+ year player.

I think this is great deal for Minnesota considering the risk GS is taking on.

[baseballfrk8998]

[quote name='RJRJRJ' timestamp='1403220918' post='9535387']
[quote name='tocino' timestamp='1403216437' post='9534861']
As a warriros fan I'm acutally "Ok" with this deal, especially if the lottery pick is in this year's draft. I'd also want to make sure that Love signs long term as a condition of the trade (i don't want a repeat of the dwight howard/lakers issue)
[/quote]

I'd say its unlikely he signs an extension as it would be costing him a lot of money. He can only sign a 2 year extension (instead of 4-5 on a new deal a year from now). Also his max salary will be limited because he's in his sixth year and the max salary for 0-6 of experience years is lower than a 7+ year player.

I think this is great deal for Minnesota considering the risk GS is taking on.
[/quote]

How much is it really costing him though? After the 2 years, he'll still be a max contract type of player.

I can't imagine GS making this move without a guarantee of an extension.

[MtlJeff]

[quote name='mnplayer' timestamp='1403211495' post='9534309']
I think Love, Barea, Martin, and a lottery pick for two guys who are most likely going to walk after two years is maybe too much. It is probably the best we're going to get for Love though.
[/quote]

Thompson i believe is restricted as he's still on his rookie deal, so you'd have him a while

[MtlJeff]

[quote name='tocino' timestamp='1403216437' post='9534861']
As a warriros fan I'm acutally "Ok" with this deal, especially if the lottery pick is in this year's draft. I'd also want to make sure that Love signs long term as a condition of the trade (i don't want a repeat of the dwight howard/lakers issue)
[/quote]

If you can pair Love and Curry together you have to do it. That is a terrifying pick and roll combo. Those guys with Iguodala, Barnes, Green, Bogut....that's a very good team. You have to do that deal

[MtlJeff]

I don't get the Jabari thing as #1 now for Cleveland. I just don't get it....Yes he's a sure thing, but an offensive sure thing. So you've got Kyrie (no defense), Anthony Bennett or Tristan Thompson at the 4 (no rim protection) and Dion Waiters at the 2 (so far, no defense)

So you decide, oh yeah totally, we're going with Jabari... a guy who a lot of scouts see as a stretch 4 in the NBA, and who doesn't play defense

Is their strategy to give up 139 points per game next season?

You gotta take Wiggins, or still Embiid....you HAVE to take defense

[RJRJRJ]

[quote name='baseballfrk8998' timestamp='1403221587' post='9535461']
[quote name='RJRJRJ' timestamp='1403220918' post='9535387']
[quote name='tocino' timestamp='1403216437' post='9534861']
As a warriros fan I'm acutally "Ok" with this deal, especially if the lottery pick is in this year's draft. I'd also want to make sure that Love signs long term as a condition of the trade (i don't want a repeat of the dwight howard/lakers issue)
[/quote]

I'd say its unlikely he signs an extension as it would be costing him a lot of money. He can only sign a 2 year extension (instead of 4-5 on a new deal a year from now). Also his max salary will be limited because he's in his sixth year and the max salary for 0-6 of experience years is lower than a 7+ year player.

I think this is great deal for Minnesota considering the risk GS is taking on.
[/quote]

How much is it really costing him though? After the 2 years, he'll still be a max contract type of player.

I can't imagine GS making this move without a guarantee of an extension.
[/quote]

I dot know the exact numbers, but its usually a "bird in the hand" type thing for these guys to lock up a good long term deal as soon as they can.

[RJRJRJ]

lol @ Pat Reilly comparing this team to some of the all time greats.

[tatertot]

[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1403225203' post='9535831']
I don't get the Jabari thing as #1 now for Cleveland. I just don't get it....Yes he's a sure thing, but an offensive sure thing. So you've got Kyrie (no defense), Anthony Bennett or Tristan Thompson at the 4 (no rim protection) and Dion Waiters at the 2 (so far, no defense)

So you decide, oh yeah totally, we're going with Jabari... a guy who a lot of scouts see as a stretch 4 in the NBA, and who doesn't play defense

Is their strategy to give up 139 points per game next season?

You gotta take Wiggins, or still Embiid....you HAVE to take defense
[/quote]
Did Embiid suffer a broken foot? Big men with broken feet are scary ...

Wiggins is a no-brainer. Unless the Cavs know they're getting LeBron.

[tocino]

[quote name='tatertot' timestamp='1403281131' post='9539823']
[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1403225203' post='9535831']
I don't get the Jabari thing as #1 now for Cleveland. I just don't get it....Yes he's a sure thing, but an offensive sure thing. So you've got Kyrie (no defense), Anthony Bennett or Tristan Thompson at the 4 (no rim protection) and Dion Waiters at the 2 (so far, no defense)

So you decide, oh yeah totally, we're going with Jabari... a guy who a lot of scouts see as a stretch 4 in the NBA, and who doesn't play defense

Is their strategy to give up 139 points per game next season?

You gotta take Wiggins, or still Embiid....you HAVE to take defense
[/quote]
Did Embiid suffer a broken foot? Big men with broken feet are scary ...

Wiggins is a no-brainer. Unless the Cavs know they're getting LeBron.
[/quote]

yup stress fracture i believe. how do you weigh that? Legitimate 7'+ center that can run like a gazelle and has the most upside of this draft BUT he may potentially have back problems this early in his career and he just broke his foot... 2nd coming of the Dream or Oden 2.0?

I would definitely go Wiggins. The defensive will be there right from the start and you also dont need him to be the "man" right away on offense since Kyrie is still running point. Parker is OK but that's not what you need right now. In fact, if I was the cavs GM I would rank my top 3 as:

#1 Wiggins
#2 Embiid (even with the Injury)
#3 Parker

[Dizz]

[quote name='lilmike24' timestamp='1403186899' post='9531321']
I love how heat fans are now saying lebron has no help in MIA because they lost the finals. lol After the repeat they added better players! And with the immense amounts of pure talent that is on that team ........

And I really thought a team superstar is bring the level of play on his team up and will his team to a victory.
[/quote]

I don't think that's the issue though-- there is plenty of talent in Miami. The problem, which was always the problem in Cleveland is that when you get down to the final 4 team... the Eastern Conference Finals and then the NBA Finals he pretty much has to play flawless basketball to get it done. BUT it takes a perfect storm for the other team to beat them.... the Mavs 4 years ago. The Spurs played unbelievable basketball and just dominated the series. They could probably re-play that series 50 times and the Heat would probably win more than half (IMO- of course) BUT the Spurs played awesome basketball, made a TON of shots and just wanted it more.... bottom line. They were a much more complete team.

Does Miami need to re-tool?? Sure but I don't think LeBron is blaming anyone else.... part of it is his style of play. He just has to play flawlessly with help to win the NBA Finals.... and since the league isn't totally watered down then that's how it should be.

Personally I think Miami would be better off dealing Wade or moving him to bring in a younger player with more energy. Wade really played like a 6th man style player anyway for most of the season as well as post season.... he did have a few solid games in the East Finals. BUT his better years are way behind him. Bosh has turned from a big man that used to average 20-10 to a mid-range and beyond player.

Wherever LeBron goes they are an instant title contender but I don't think it will matter-- he still needs to play pretty much flawless basketball to win a ring. Although-- I would love to see LeBron and Kevin Love play on the same team... someone that can hit those mid range and 3 point shots like Bosh does as well as actually play down low and bang... get rebounds... put back and also run an insanely lethal pick and roll. Can you imagine a LeBron and Love pick and roll? Bosh went from averaging 22.5-24.0 + 10-11 rebounds per game for several years to now average under 7 rebounds per game. Obviously the scoring is gonna go down since he's playing with LBJ and Wade but he should still be rebounding the ball. He turned from 6 foot 11 center that could play inside and extend into the mid range to now playing mid range and shooting 3's.

Bosh has improved in a lot of areas but honestly I think the Heat need that banger player more than another 3 point specialist. They have the best 3 point shooter in NBA history... why not utilize Bosh's abilities down low?

Either way, the Heat went to the Finals four straight years and got two of them. Jordan set the bar so high by going 6 for 6 in the Finals so people are judging LeBron based on that-- which is obviously not fair. I don't care where LeBron goes, his team will be in the Conference Finals no matter where he goes--- it just takes a little more to win it all... and I don't think its necessarily adding better players or pieces. It comes down mostly to him and a little luck that's needed to hit those big shots in big moments.... especially the ones coming from role players. Hell, the drive and dish to Bosh in the corner to win Game 2 was the same play they used (that Bosh missed) in Game 5 of the East Finals which ended the game on the other side. Those are the shots and moments where your other players besides LeBron need to hit to win.

[scratchswinger]

[quote name='J.W.' timestamp='1403290208' post='9541023']
[quote name='lilmike24' timestamp='1403186899' post='9531321']
I love how heat fans are now saying lebron has no help in MIA because they lost the finals. lol After the repeat they added better players! And with the immense amounts of pure talent that is on that team ........

And I really thought a team superstar is bring the level of play on his team up and will his team to a victory.
[/quote]

I don't think that's the issue though-- there is plenty of talent in Miami. The problem, which was always the problem in Cleveland is that when you get down to the final 4 team... the Eastern Conference Finals and then the NBA Finals he pretty much has to play flawless basketball to get it done. BUT it takes a perfect storm for the other team to beat them.... the Mavs 4 years ago. The Spurs played unbelievable basketball and just dominated the series. They could probably re-play that series 50 times and the Heat would probably win more than half (IMO- of course) BUT the Spurs played awesome basketball, made a TON of shots and just wanted it more.... bottom line. They were a much more complete team.

Does Miami need to re-tool?? Sure but I don't think LeBron is blaming anyone else.... part of it is his style of play. He just has to play flawlessly with help to win the NBA Finals.... and since the league isn't totally watered down then that's how it should be.

Personally I think Miami would be better off dealing Wade or moving him to bring in a younger player with more energy. Wade really played like a 6th man style player anyway for most of the season as well as post season.... he did have a few solid games in the East Finals. BUT his better years are way behind him. Bosh has turned from a big man that used to average 20-10 to a mid-range and beyond player.

Wherever LeBron goes they are an instant title contender but I don't think it will matter-- he still needs to play pretty much flawless basketball to win a ring. Although-- I would love to see LeBron and Kevin Love play on the same team... someone that can hit those mid range and 3 point shots like Bosh does as well as actually play down low and bang... get rebounds... put back and also run an insanely lethal pick and roll. Can you imagine a LeBron and Love pick and roll? Bosh went from averaging 22.5-24.0 + 10-11 rebounds per game for several years to now average under 7 rebounds per game. Obviously the scoring is gonna go down since he's playing with LBJ and Wade but he should still be rebounding the ball. He turned from 6 foot 11 center that could play inside and extend into the mid range to now playing mid range and shooting 3's.

Bosh has improved in a lot of areas but honestly I think the Heat need that banger player more than another 3 point specialist. They have the best 3 point shooter in NBA history... why not utilize Bosh's abilities down low?

Either way, the Heat went to the Finals four straight years and got two of them. Jordan set the bar so high by going 6 for 6 in the Finals so people are judging LeBron based on that-- which is obviously not fair. I don't care where LeBron goes, his team will be in the Conference Finals no matter where he goes--- it just takes a little more to win it all... and I don't think its necessarily adding better players or pieces. It comes down mostly to him and a little luck that's needed to hit those big shots in big moments.... especially the ones coming from role players. Hell, the drive and dish to Bosh in the corner to win Game 2 was the same play they used (that Bosh missed) in Game 5 of the East Finals which ended the game on the other side. Those are the shots and moments where your other players besides LeBron need to hit to win.
[/quote]

No offense JW but you lost me when you said the Heat would beat the Spurs more than half of the time.

[tocino]

[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1403293631' post='9541479']
No offense JW but you lost me when you said the Heat would beat the Spurs more than half of the time.

[/quote]

yeah, that Spurs are a really well-coached team. I would say they were still favored over the Heat but they probably don't blow them out like they did this year everytime

[Dizz]

[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1403293631' post='9541479']
[quote name='J.W.' timestamp='1403290208' post='9541023']
[quote name='lilmike24' timestamp='1403186899' post='9531321']
I love how heat fans are now saying lebron has no help in MIA because they lost the finals. lol After the repeat they added better players! And with the immense amounts of pure talent that is on that team ........

And I really thought a team superstar is bring the level of play on his team up and will his team to a victory.
[/quote]

I don't think that's the issue though-- there is plenty of talent in Miami. The problem, which was always the problem in Cleveland is that when you get down to the final 4 team... the Eastern Conference Finals and then the NBA Finals he pretty much has to play flawless basketball to get it done. BUT it takes a perfect storm for the other team to beat them.... the Mavs 4 years ago. The Spurs played unbelievable basketball and just dominated the series. They could probably re-play that series 50 times and the Heat would probably win more than half (IMO- of course) BUT the Spurs played awesome basketball, made a TON of shots and just wanted it more.... bottom line. They were a much more complete team.

Does Miami need to re-tool?? Sure but I don't think LeBron is blaming anyone else.... part of it is his style of play. He just has to play flawlessly with help to win the NBA Finals.... and since the league isn't totally watered down then that's how it should be.

Personally I think Miami would be better off dealing Wade or moving him to bring in a younger player with more energy. Wade really played like a 6th man style player anyway for most of the season as well as post season.... he did have a few solid games in the East Finals. BUT his better years are way behind him. Bosh has turned from a big man that used to average 20-10 to a mid-range and beyond player.

Wherever LeBron goes they are an instant title contender but I don't think it will matter-- he still needs to play pretty much flawless basketball to win a ring. Although-- I would love to see LeBron and Kevin Love play on the same team... someone that can hit those mid range and 3 point shots like Bosh does as well as actually play down low and bang... get rebounds... put back and also run an insanely lethal pick and roll. Can you imagine a LeBron and Love pick and roll? Bosh went from averaging 22.5-24.0 + 10-11 rebounds per game for several years to now average under 7 rebounds per game. Obviously the scoring is gonna go down since he's playing with LBJ and Wade but he should still be rebounding the ball. He turned from 6 foot 11 center that could play inside and extend into the mid range to now playing mid range and shooting 3's.

Bosh has improved in a lot of areas but honestly I think the Heat need that banger player more than another 3 point specialist. They have the best 3 point shooter in NBA history... why not utilize Bosh's abilities down low?

Either way, the Heat went to the Finals four straight years and got two of them. Jordan set the bar so high by going 6 for 6 in the Finals so people are judging LeBron based on that-- which is obviously not fair. I don't care where LeBron goes, his team will be in the Conference Finals no matter where he goes--- it just takes a little more to win it all... and I don't think its necessarily adding better players or pieces. It comes down mostly to him and a little luck that's needed to hit those big shots in big moments.... especially the ones coming from role players. Hell, the drive and dish to Bosh in the corner to win Game 2 was the same play they used (that Bosh missed) in Game 5 of the East Finals which ended the game on the other side. Those are the shots and moments where your other players besides LeBron need to hit to win.
[/quote]

No offense JW but you lost me when you said the Heat would beat the Spurs more than half of the time.
[/quote]

Lol... none taken its just my opinion. The Spurs played a perfect series and the Heat didn't play well. I honestly believe if they played the series 50 teams the outcome wouldn't be what it was... a 4-1 blowout. They've played The Finals twice and are 1-1. I just meant if they repeated it another 48 times I would be highly surprised if it was lopsided in either direction. Talking with my head it would be pretty damn even... with my heart I think the Heat win a couple more. We'll never know, and if last week was any indication of normal then they'd go 0-48. BUT the Heat did not play well and the Spurs played flawless basketball.... that's not gonna happen every single time they tip it. The Spurs were making tons of shots and got quite a bit of production outside their corps of "stars" where Miami got almost nothing from anyone aside from LeBron just playing normal. JMO.

Even if we dumb it down and lets say they play ten 7 game series. Right now its 1-1, you think San Antonio wins the other 8 series and goes 9-1 in 7 game series. Part of sports is playing good during the right stretches.... generally basketball is the best at determining a winner because you have 7 games to prove yourself. The NFL has more upsets in the playoffs simply because its one game and also sorta what makes it so much fun to watch if you're a fan. Just like I don't think the Seahawks beat the Broncos by 35 again if they played 10 more times... but that's another thread where we don't agree either.... LOL. I just think the Heat were not playing well, low on confidence and SA just flat out beat them down. BUT I don't think that happens again if they played ten of them. Good news is, they don't and we'll never know. The Heat flat out laid an egg IMO, I just don't think they'd do that again.

Go back to the Lakers-Pistons Finals where the Pistons got a title.... they play that series again... with LA Lakers playing more as a team unit and that does NOT happen again.... right? The LA Lakers were a better team but that 5 game stretch they weren't... and so goes sports.

I'm rambling-- how's your 915D3? LOL.

[scratchswinger]

After watching the most recent Finals and last years I honestly think the Spurs would continue and beat the Heat pretty decisively. The Heat have some obvious flaws that SA is able to really exploit. The Heat are probably the third best team in the West behind OKC and just above LAC.

[Dizz]

[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1403295887' post='9541817']
After watching the most recent Finals and last years I honestly think the Spurs would continue and beat the Heat pretty decisively. The Heat have some obvious flaws that SA is able to really exploit. The Heat are probably the third best team in the West behind OKC and just above LAC.
[/quote]

Agree to disagree... I think they'd handle the Thunder no problem. They played poorly and it showed... and like you said the Spurs totally exploited that. Not sure the Thunder coaching finds the same way to do it.

You don't make it to four straight Finals for nothing. Again, totally MY opinion... everyone has their own.

[scratchswinger]

I just think that besides LeBron the Heat were a bunch or role players that can't get their own shot and with Wade being a shadow of his former self their is just too much of a load for LBJ against any of the top tier West teams. The SA Spurs in the Playoffs were head and shoulders above everyone... The 2nd, 3rd and 4th best teams were fairly close to one another. I admit that prior to the Spurs series I thought more of the Heat after seeing how easily they were dominated it changed my perception of them.

[MtlJeff]

Lord knows me and Scratch don't agree on everything, but i agree with him on the Spurs/Miami series.

The difference between this year and last IMO, which i mentioned a few pages ago, is that the SA bench was way better and the Miami bench was significantly worse. Miami basically stopped playing Battier and got rid of Mike Miller, these were 2 guys who would routinely pop up for random games and go for 5-7 3's. Ray Allen was more gassed this year you could tell. The Heat just looked older then a year ago

Meanwhile the Spurs had Patty Mills, Belinelli, Manu playing better, Diaw, Danny Green, Leonard....etc...Their supporting cast was confident, could all shoot and pass.

The Heat were not as good this year. Frankly i think if they play the series 10 times the Spurs probably win 8 of them, maybe more. Maybe 9

The telltale sign for me was how Miami exploded on them early on in game 5, and SA soaked up every punch, then went on a 59-22 run that just sucked the soul out of the Heat. No panicking, no forcing stuff....they just sat back and unleashed another can of NOS that Miami didn't know they had

The Spurs were better this year IMO. This was a 7 game series that ended with 3 consecutive blowouts. I read somewhere, IIRC that this series had the largest +/- differential in history. Hard to argue that it wasn't a very lopsided match up given that stat, and the sample size of a best-of-7 series

[MtlJeff]

The latest Embiid news, should Parker fall to Cleveland....could land Wiggins in Milwaukee

Think about this lineup: Brandon Knight, Andrew Wiggins, Giannis, John Henson, Larry Sanders

Everyone is 25 or younger, and that's probably the rangiest lineup in the history of the word range. Look at the defensive potential there if everyone kind of pans out

[StarFleetGolfer]

[quote name='J.W.' timestamp='1403299978' post='9542365']
[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1403295887' post='9541817']
After watching the most recent Finals and last years I honestly think the Spurs would continue and beat the Heat pretty decisively. The Heat have some obvious flaws that SA is able to really exploit. The Heat are probably the third best team in the West behind OKC and just above LAC.
[/quote]

Agree to disagree... I think they'd handle the Thunder no problem. They played poorly and it showed... and like you said the Spurs totally exploited that. Not sure the Thunder coaching finds the same way to do it.

You don't make it to four straight Finals for nothing. Again, totally MY opinion... everyone has their own.
[/quote]


If the Heat were in the west it would not be 4 straight finals. And San Antonio should have won last year.

[MtlJeff]

Boom, Jalen Rose just compared Jabari Parker to Glenn Robinson on the latest podcast....i've been saying that all year.....SWISH!

[scratchswinger]

Jeff- if you were the Lakers and you could get Klay for the 7th pick, would you take it?

And no it's not a "loaded" question, just curios what you think. I would do it in a heartbeat.

[mnplayer]

I will be absolutely done if this trade goes through. Love and Martin for David Lee and the #7 pick? WTF.

[scratchswinger]

You don't think Harrison Barnes is in it to? Has to be.

[mnplayer]

I hope so, I've seen a bunch of different scenarios. It seems like just about everything is on the table, the most recent one I've seen is LA gets Klay Thompson, GS gets Love and Martin, and MN gets the Lakers pick and David Lee. I hope that doesn't happen, I really don't see how David Lee and the #7 pick is the best offer out there for Love. I'd love to get Barnes out of this though.

[MtlJeff]

[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1403400729' post='9548671']
Jeff- if you were the Lakers and you could get Klay for the 7th pick, would you take it?

And no it's not a "loaded" question, just curios what you think. I would do it in a heartbeat.
[/quote]

I could go either way on it. I don't think it's a good or a bad deal. I think there's a solid chance they get a better player then Klay. At the #7 spot Marcus Smart, Aaron Gordon, Julius Randle, Vonleh....one of these guys will be available. But of course there's a solid chance they won't be as good as Klay

I think if the play is to be good ASAP, then Klay probably gives them more cred next year to sign a FA, so in that case it might make sense. For example if Love makes it free agency (which isn't impossible), the Lakers with Klay Thompson are probably more appealing then a developping rookie

[MtlJeff]

I'm shocked that Thad Young and Arron Afflalo's names aren't being thrown around left and right. Maybe there is talk going on behind the scenes and the Sixers/Magic are asking for too much but i just don't get it. Both teams are rebuilding and may lose these guys for nothing. Afflalo is already 28

For a team that wants to win this year, i can't imagine a draft pick, or a couple of lower picks, wouldn't get them.

For example the Suns can't even fit all of their draft picks on their roster. 2 late first rounders for Thad Young doesn't make sense for both teams? (Philly would have 4 first round picks)

The 21st and 29 th picks for Arron Afflalo to OKC doesn't make sense for both teams?

What am i missing?