Bradley Hughes, Impact, the truth about your swing.

[ej002]

What is proven fact now? Not up to speed on manzo latest except he backpedaled on Dplane some.

If Brad wants to dole out his 2 cents he should be able to defend his theories and JE's.

[sixunder]

Ej002

Just talking about the golf club bending or as Bradley said stressing thats all i think we all agree on if not this conversation is dead. I cant speak for someone else.
As a golf instructor i went thru there whole program and finished it. Do i teach it to my students no, do i use some of it in my teaching yes, do i use trackman yes, do i teach a method no, what Bradley teaches i have no clue and will not comment.

[tembolo1284]

Is bradley back in the states? I think he's teaching out of NC.

[tembolo1284]

EJ wanna give him a call? LOL.

[ej002]

Pass - apparently he had another melt down on sitd. You know those "trolls" asking tough questions. Poor guy.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1402493975' post='9472849']
Pass - apparently he had another melt down on sitd. You know those "trolls" asking tough questions. Poor guy.
[/quote]

Dude I nearly fell off my chair.

[PreppySlapCut]

But I want a bunch of free information!!! In exchange, even though I'm a no-talent-a**-clown who's never done anything in the game save for maintaining a vanity handicap at some semi-private club in Podunk, I'll just question your legitimacy and insult you.

That's essentially what happens. It's why he left, it's why Dan eventually left, etc. It's just not worth the aggravation when you're giving up your free time to help people.

[tembolo1284]

I'm happy just reading whatever the guy writes. If he wants to talk about how awesome he is on the course while shooting -20 or whatever under in Australia i'm happy to read it.

[bph7]

[quote name='PreppySlapCut' timestamp='1402509435' post='9474529']
But I want a bunch of free information!!! In exchange, even though I'm a no-talent-a**-clown who's never done anything in the game save for maintaining a vanity handicap at some semi-private club in Podunk, I'll just question your legitimacy and insult you.

That's essentially what happens. It's why he left, it's why Dan eventually left, etc. It's just not worth the aggravation when you're giving up your free time to help people.
[/quote]

So, so true. While I'm sure there are some things Bradley teaches that not everyone would agree with, it's simply amazing to me the amount of stuff he has to put up with from other people who have no credentials at all. Bradley obviously teaches ABS stuff, which can be pretty divisive, but I don't really see him shying away from the tough questions (yes, I've read the stuff on the sitd thread). What seems to be happening is that people, who clearly have no interest in enrolling in ABS, constantly ask questions that he has either already answered or that simply are not relevant to what he teaches. It seems like he's constantly forced to defend the merits of ABS, which, IMO is a waste of time for him when he knows that some people simply are not going to do ABS no matter what, which is fine.

This is similar to what happens with all the teachers that stop posting, I imagine it just becomes not worth their time when half the posts directed toward them are snarky questions or stupid rhetorical questions trying to setup "gotcha" moments.

[scopek]

[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1402510257' post='9474617']
[quote name='PreppySlapCut' timestamp='1402509435' post='9474529']
But I want a bunch of free information!!! In exchange, even though I'm a no-talent-a**-clown who's never done anything in the game save for maintaining a vanity handicap at some semi-private club in Podunk, I'll just question your legitimacy and insult you.

That's essentially what happens. It's why he left, it's why Dan eventually left, etc. It's just not worth the aggravation when you're giving up your free time to help people.
[/quote]

So, so true. While I'm sure there are some things Bradley teaches that not everyone would agree with, it's simply amazing to me the amount of stuff he has to put up with from other people who have no credentials at all. Bradley obviously teaches ABS stuff, which can be pretty divisive, but I don't really see him shying away from the tough questions (yes, I've read the stuff on the sitd thread). What seems to be happening is that people, who clearly have no interest in enrolling in ABS, constantly ask questions that he has either already answered or that simply are not relevant to what he teaches. It seems like he's constantly forced to defend the merits of ABS, which, IMO is a waste of time for him when he knows that some people simply are not going to do ABS no matter what, which is fine.

This is similar to what happens with all the teachers that stop posting, I imagine it just becomes not worth their time when half the posts directed toward them are snarky questions or stupid rhetorical questions trying to setup "gotcha" moments.
[/quote]

What a shame. There are a few things I've learned from this site. One is that there are multiple ways to successfully swing a golf club and that different golfers benefit vastly different from different "methods" or approaches. The other thing I've learned is that no matter what someone says has worked from them, there is always some arrogant a*#hole who thinks their way is better and will do everything they can to point out why they think someone else is wrong. It really spoils a lot of potentially interesting threads.

It reminds me of when I was in middle school. We had this "heated" debate among some of the musician types over who was the best guitartist who ever lived. People ended up taking sides and either being in the Eddie VanHalen camp or the Jimmy Page camp. It's extremely funny to think about now, but we seriously debated who was "better" and it could get pretty intense. But, man, I feel like I'm watching a middle school debate sometimes.

[ej002]

I personally think all of that is rubbish. The board is where swing theory is debated. Same with SITD. People will always disagree on that stuff. Everyone knows that. I didn't see anyone treat him unfairly - at least not here. Also, there are no credential requirements to post. Anyone who wants to write should be encouraged to do so. They also make these cool tools called ignore buttons.

The free lessons that he wants to hand out (if that is his true intent) can be done where guys post their swings. I personally think it is a marketing scheme, and that is why he gets so pissed off when he is challenged. It hurts his credibility or whatever he said. Utter nonsense.

[scopek]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1402511236' post='9474735']
I personally think all of that is rubbish. The board is where swing theory is debated. Same with SITD. People will always disagree on that stuff. Everyone knows that. I didn't see anyone treat him unfairly - at least not here. Also, there are no credential requirements to post. Anyone who wants to write should be encouraged to do so. They also make these cool tools called ignore buttons.

[b]The free lessons that he wants to hand out[/b] (if that is his true intent) can be done where guys post their swings. I personally think it is a marketing scheme, and that is why he gets so pissed off when he is challenged. It hurts his credibility or whatever he said. Utter nonsense.
[/quote]

Free lesson? I contact the guy about a year ago and he told me the only option I had was to buy his full series. It was something like $500 or close to that.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='scopek' timestamp='1402511421' post='9474751']
[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1402511236' post='9474735']
I personally think all of that is rubbish. The board is where swing theory is debated. Same with SITD. People will always disagree on that stuff. Everyone knows that. I didn't see anyone treat him unfairly - at least not here. Also, there are no credential requirements to post. Anyone who wants to write should be encouraged to do so. They also make these cool tools called ignore buttons.

[b]The free lessons that he wants to hand out[/b] (if that is his true intent) can be done where guys post their swings. I personally think it is a marketing scheme, and that is why he gets so pissed off when he is challenged. It hurts his credibility or whatever he said. Utter nonsense.
[/quote]

Free lesson? I contact the guy about a year ago and he told me the only option I had was to buy his full series. It was something like $500 or close to that.
[/quote]

Like a free tip or whatever for a guy asking for advice. Not necessarily a free lesson.

[scopek]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1402511599' post='9474793']
[quote name='scopek' timestamp='1402511421' post='9474751']
[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1402511236' post='9474735']
I personally think all of that is rubbish. The board is where swing theory is debated. Same with SITD. People will always disagree on that stuff. Everyone knows that. I didn't see anyone treat him unfairly - at least not here. Also, there are no credential requirements to post. Anyone who wants to write should be encouraged to do so. They also make these cool tools called ignore buttons.

[b]The free lessons that he wants to hand out[/b] (if that is his true intent) can be done where guys post their swings. I personally think it is a marketing scheme, and that is why he gets so pissed off when he is challenged. It hurts his credibility or whatever he said. Utter nonsense.
[/quote]

Free lesson? I contact the guy about a year ago and he told me the only option I had was to buy his full series. It was something like $500 or close to that.
[/quote]

Like a free tip or whatever for a guy asking for advice. Not necessarily a free lesson.
[/quote]

Of course. He made it clear that there was no way to just sample his teaching. I was interested in his method, but coughing up that much money up front turned me away. Actually, committing to the lessons would probably good for me as I'll be the first to admit that I'm one of the worse flipper from swing method to swing method there is. At least I can say I have a little bit of first hand knowledge of several "methods!"

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='scopek' timestamp='1402512243' post='9474873']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1402511599' post='9474793']
[quote name='scopek' timestamp='1402511421' post='9474751']
[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1402511236' post='9474735']
I personally think all of that is rubbish. The board is where swing theory is debated. Same with SITD. People will always disagree on that stuff. Everyone knows that. I didn't see anyone treat him unfairly - at least not here. Also, there are no credential requirements to post. Anyone who wants to write should be encouraged to do so. They also make these cool tools called ignore buttons.

[b]The free lessons that he wants to hand out[/b] (if that is his true intent) can be done where guys post their swings. I personally think it is a marketing scheme, and that is why he gets so pissed off when he is challenged. It hurts his credibility or whatever he said. Utter nonsense.
[/quote]

Free lesson? I contact the guy about a year ago and he told me the only option I had was to buy his full series. It was something like $500 or close to that.
[/quote]

Like a free tip or whatever for a guy asking for advice. Not necessarily a free lesson.
[/quote]

Of course. He made it clear that there was no way to just sample his teaching. I was interested in his method, but coughing up that much money up front turned me away. Actually, committing to the lessons would probably good for me as I'll be the first to admit that I'm one of the worse flipper from swing method to swing method there is. At least I can say I have a little bit of first hand knowledge of several "methods!"
[/quote]

Haha you method slut. But I think that's a beautiful thing!

[scopek]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1402512567' post='9474919']
[quote name='scopek' timestamp='1402512243' post='9474873']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1402511599' post='9474793']
[quote name='scopek' timestamp='1402511421' post='9474751']
[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1402511236' post='9474735']
I personally think all of that is rubbish. The board is where swing theory is debated. Same with SITD. People will always disagree on that stuff. Everyone knows that. I didn't see anyone treat him unfairly - at least not here. Also, there are no credential requirements to post. Anyone who wants to write should be encouraged to do so. They also make these cool tools called ignore buttons.

[b]The free lessons that he wants to hand out[/b] (if that is his true intent) can be done where guys post their swings. I personally think it is a marketing scheme, and that is why he gets so pissed off when he is challenged. It hurts his credibility or whatever he said. Utter nonsense.
[/quote]

Free lesson? I contact the guy about a year ago and he told me the only option I had was to buy his full series. It was something like $500 or close to that.
[/quote]

Like a free tip or whatever for a guy asking for advice. Not necessarily a free lesson.
[/quote]

Of course. He made it clear that there was no way to just sample his teaching. I was interested in his method, but coughing up that much money up front turned me away. Actually, committing to the lessons would probably good for me as I'll be the first to admit that I'm one of the worse flipper from swing method to swing method there is. At least I can say I have a little bit of first hand knowledge of several "methods!"
[/quote]

Haha [b]you method slut[/b]. But[b] I think that's a beautiful thing[/b]!
[/quote]

LOL. Really? Why? I think it's held me back from progressing.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='scopek' timestamp='1402512785' post='9474943']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1402512567' post='9474919']


Haha [b]you method slut[/b]. But[b] I think that's a beautiful thing[/b]!
[/quote]

LOL. Really? Why? I think it's held me back from progressing.
[/quote]

Maybe from progressing...but you are learning a lot! So that's good!

In time you'll narrow it down and start to just play.

[scopek]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1402513475' post='9475007']
[quote name='scopek' timestamp='1402512785' post='9474943']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1402512567' post='9474919']
Haha [b]you method slut[/b]. But[b] I think that's a beautiful thing[/b]!
[/quote]

LOL. Really? Why? I think it's held me back from progressing.
[/quote]

Maybe from progressing...but you are learning a lot! So that's good!

In time you'll narrow it down and start to just play.
[/quote]

True. But sometimes I think the only thing it's helped with is to be able to understand the banter that goes on between KG and folks.

[bph7]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1402511236' post='9474735']
I personally think all of that is rubbish. The board is where swing theory is debated. Same with SITD. People will always disagree on that stuff. Everyone knows that. I didn't see anyone treat him unfairly - at least not here. Also, there are no credential requirements to post. Anyone who wants to write should be encouraged to do so. They also make these cool tools called ignore buttons.

The free lessons that he wants to hand out (if that is his true intent) can be done where guys post their swings. I personally think it is a marketing scheme, and that is why he gets so pissed off when he is challenged. It hurts his credibility or whatever he said. Utter nonsense.
[/quote]

Fair enough, although I don't agree with your points, they are reasonable and I can see why you have drawn the conclusions you have. I guess personally, and I think I have said this before in this very thread, I'd just personally rather have Bradley Hughes and Dan C and others like them posting, even if it means they are dodging some questions here and there, then not posting at all. I guess, in my view, their credentials gives them more benefit of the doubt than someone without any.

Also, from a practical point of view, you do realize that on sitd some of the main antagonists of him are Gerry Hogan people right? Supporters of GH's, as posters on here are all aware, made it their life's work to endlessly question anyone and anything that wasn't said by Gerry Hogan. I'd rather see what Bradley has to say, even if he is avoiding some stuff for marketing reasons or whatnot, then read the same repetitive drivel from the GH crew (Hands hands hands, .2 seconds, muscles can only pull.... you know the drill).

[tembolo1284]

Gerry Hogan...I had forgotten about him. True champ.

[flatnstuck]

I don't think you quite appreciate some of the sociopaths that inhabit Sitd, and their non stop degradation and defamation of anything they disagree with. The worst perpetrator being someone who's been caught lying his ace off about his touring credentials and supposed means of employment. There is no moderation there. I wouldn't put up with it. Especially not if I had actual touring pros playing this week in the Open.

[Atrayn]

Hopefully I'm not a sociopath. I read all the nitpicking regarding a word called "stressing" th shaft. I paid for ABS. It's well worth it. The stressing is no different than what Lynn Blake teaches as pressuring. It's vital to maintain it. People get so hung up on words. Open your mind to similar philosophy. The choice of words my be slightly different but what they describe is basically the same thing.

[scopek]

[quote name='Atrayn' timestamp='1402536536' post='9477313']
Hopefully I'm not a sociopath. I read all the nitpicking regarding a word called "stressing" th shaft. [b]I paid for ABS. It's well worth it[/b]. The stressing is no different than what Lynn Blake teaches as pressuring. It's vital to maintain it. People get so hung up on words. Open your mind to similar philosophy. The choice of words my be slightly different but what they describe is basically the same thing.
[/quote]

did you work with Bradely Huges? Did you find the ABS complimented the SF teaching and/or could compliment a pivot swing that Hardy teaches? I've debated about doing his program. He told me that I would have a lot of access to him and could just send in videos just about anytime to make sure I'm doing the drills correctly.

[Hstead]

But Gerry was a solid 6 handicap and could blast 6 irons 190 yards. What did Brad ever do in golf? I saw him have to hit a 5 iron from 190 in the Presidents Cup. Pfttt.

[hoganfan924]

[quote name='Atrayn' timestamp='1402536536' post='9477313']
Hopefully I'm not a sociopath. I read all the nitpicking regarding a word called "stressing" th shaft. I paid for ABS. It's well worth it. The stressing is no different than what Lynn Blake teaches as pressuring. It's vital to maintain it. People get so hung up on words. Open your mind to similar philosophy. The choice of words my be slightly different but what they describe is basically the same thing.
[/quote]

The devil is in the details. Stressing the shaft is done by every half decent player, but [b][i]delivering a pre-stressed shaft into impact[/i][/b] is entirely different. That is what the ABS guys believe and promote (that the shaft is still bent backwards at the start of impact). I've seen a lot of the old true temper shaftlab data and asked them some questions about this. Everyone that they ever measured (according to the guy I spoke to and the tour pro profiles that they had), has forward shaft kick at impact (the shaft has already kicked forward, past it's neutral axis by the start of impact). That means that they never measured anyone who delivers a "pre-stressed shaft into impact" on a full swing. I've also never seen any super high speed face on of anyone doing so either (that doesn't suffer rolling shutter effect). I won't say it's impossible, just that nobody has ever presented credible evidence that it is done by Jon, Bradley or anyone else on a regular basis.

[northgolf]

[quote name='hoganfan924' timestamp='1402538447' post='9477533']
[quote name='Atrayn' timestamp='1402536536' post='9477313']
Hopefully I'm not a sociopath. I read all the nitpicking regarding a word called "stressing" th shaft. I paid for ABS. It's well worth it. The stressing is no different than what Lynn Blake teaches as pressuring. It's vital to maintain it. People get so hung up on words. Open your mind to similar philosophy. The choice of words my be slightly different but what they describe is basically the same thing.
[/quote]

The devil is in the details. Stressing the shaft is done by every half decent player, but [b][i]delivering a pre-stressed shaft into impact[/i][/b] is entirely different. That is what the ABS guys believe and promote (that the shaft is still bent backwards at the start of impact). I've seen a lot of the old true temper shaftlab data and asked them some questions about this. Everyone that they ever measured (according to the guy I spoke to and the tour pro profiles that they had), has forward shaft kick at impact (the shaft has already kicked forward, past it's neutral axis by the start of impact). That means that they never measured anyone who delivers a "pre-stressed shaft into impact" on a full swing. I've also never seen any super high speed face on of anyone doing so either (that doesn't suffer rolling shutter effect). I won't say it's impossible, just that nobody has ever presented credible evidence that it is done by Jon, Bradley or anyone else on a regular basis.
[/quote]

It would be extremely difficult to deliver a club into impact with the shaft bending backward when the COG of the clubhead is behind the shaft - you would be fighting a tremendous amount of momentum (commonly mislabeled centrifugal force) (Werner, Grieg - "How Golf Clubs Really Work", 2000). When the center of gravity is behind the shaft, momentum pulls it away from the center of rotation and its (the COG) momentum would cause the shaft to flex forward. If the COG was in front of the shaft, then the shaft would flex backward (don't know of any golf clubs designed in such a manner). "Stressed shaft" is a he-man machismo myth (yell POW when you hit it).

[hoganfan924]

Right, you'd have to have greater tangential clubhead acceleration than centripetal acceleration, especially with a Cg that is rear of the centerline of the shaft. And I will submit that that is a physical impossibility for a human, probably on any shot longer than a chip.

Fortunately, Tutelman saved some of the shaftlab profiles. Here's a link:
http://www.tutelman.com/golf/shafts/ShaftLab1.php

[Hawkeye77]

[quote name='scopek' timestamp='1402511215' post='9474731']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1402510257' post='9474617']
[quote name='PreppySlapCut' timestamp='1402509435' post='9474529']
But I want a bunch of free information!!! In exchange, even though I'm a no-talent-a**-clown who's never done anything in the game save for maintaining a vanity handicap at some semi-private club in Podunk, I'll just question your legitimacy and insult you.

That's essentially what happens. It's why he left, it's why Dan eventually left, etc. It's just not worth the aggravation when you're giving up your free time to help people.
[/quote]

So, so true. While I'm sure there are some things Bradley teaches that not everyone would agree with, it's simply amazing to me the amount of stuff he has to put up with from other people who have no credentials at all. Bradley obviously teaches ABS stuff, which can be pretty divisive, but I don't really see him shying away from the tough questions (yes, I've read the stuff on the sitd thread). What seems to be happening is that people, who clearly have no interest in enrolling in ABS, constantly ask questions that he has either already answered or that simply are not relevant to what he teaches. It seems like he's constantly forced to defend the merits of ABS, which, IMO is a waste of time for him when he knows that some people simply are not going to do ABS no matter what, which is fine.

This is similar to what happens with all the teachers that stop posting, I imagine it just becomes not worth their time when half the posts directed toward them are snarky questions or stupid rhetorical questions trying to setup "gotcha" moments.
[/quote]

What a shame. There are a few things I've learned from this site. One is that there are multiple ways to successfully swing a golf club and that different golfers benefit vastly different from different "methods" or approaches. The other thing I've learned is that no matter what someone says has worked from them, there is always some arrogant a*#hole who thinks their way is better and will do everything they can to point out why they think someone else is wrong. It really spoils a lot of potentially interesting threads.

It reminds me of when I was in middle school. We had this "heated" debate among some of the musician types over who was the best guitartist who ever lived. People ended up taking sides and either being in the Eddie VanHalen camp or the Jimmy Page camp. It's extremely funny to think about now, but we seriously debated who was "better" and it could get pretty intense. But, man, I feel like I'm watching a middle school debate sometimes.
[/quote]

It must have been middle school, because there really is no debate about Jimmy Page being historically more significant than EVH, but I'll take Stevie Ray Vaughn over either.

[scopek]

[quote name='Hawkeye77' timestamp='1402542540' post='9477943']

It must have been middle school, because there really is no debate about Jimmy Page being historically more significant than EVH, but I'll take Stevie Ray Vaughn over either.
[/quote]
Ha! I'm with you on both points. Yes, it was in the 80's. I recently watched a YouTube clip of some old Zeppelin--I forgot how brilliant Page was in his prime. And, yes, I hear ya about SRV---one of the all time best. I even like how he plays Jimmy Hendrix better then Jimmy Hendrix. But this is now WAY off topic....

[tembolo1284]

I love this thread! Hope Bradley comes back!