Bradley Hughes, Impact, the truth about your swing.

[tembolo1284]

Merry Christmas to all you swing nuts!

[Massforce]

Hey first post here. I worked with Brad for a couple years at a course, and can tell you he knows his stuff. The best player I have played with and the most modest. He could teach any method he would like, but is teaching what he believes to be the best. He was a player that made his own swing through practice and a great ball striker, he started changing his swing as the coach said and contiually got worse. He started getting coached for the same reason many pros do, he hit the ball great but wanted to get better. All the things that they took out of his swing were the things that made him hit it good, although then he did not know this.

He is great to learn from, somebody said it is rare to have a previous player and ball striker of that level that teaches. He has knowledge that is unique. He has been in tournaments with great ball strikers, talked with them, and knows the commanalities that create the ball flight and sound great ball strikers create.

A few said that his swing and Erikson are nothing a like and you are correct in appearance, but not in function. Brad teaches how to create and use pressures in the swing. Opposing forces can create that pressure. You have many pressures in the swing, the ulitmate goal is to have a pressured shaft at impact.

The club has to slow down when it hits the ball, but some say if that is correct then how can he be accelerating through the strike. He is saying if the ball was not there and you were accelerating through the strike then the shaft would have pressure in it and flexed backwards after where the ball would have been. When the ball is there there and hit with a pressured shaft the clubhead slows down at impact, this causes the pressured shaft to release. The shaft releases its energy into the ball. Some of you might say it does not do anything, do some research on slap shots in hockey. The goal is to do the same thing but we do not use the ground before impact.

[tembolo1284]

What was Brad's stock shot when he killed the field in the Aussie Masters? Seemed like it was an online to slight pull fade.

[tembolo1284]

Not able to find any videos clearly showing his ball flight i'm afraid!

[PreppySlapCut]

Maybe if the keyboard jockeys on here hadn't been so hellbent on trying to tear him down it'd be easier to get an answer from BH directly. Unfortunately, world-class players who give advice and talk of their experiences for free on internet forums don't come around that often...

[Hstead]

I went back and checked some old posts etc to see if I could understand some of BH's stuff better. I believe the whole problem on this site was the "super slotting" where guys were making large moves that were drastic to get the "feel" of the move vs where the club actually is swung in real time. I may be wrong but I think that is what derailed the thread. I was one of those guys that incorrectly assumed BH taught SS in the beginning thinking BH was wanting to see the club swung from way under plane, too far in to out. But that is not what I have found. I was skeptical because that was my exact problem in the past, way too under plane. Brad explained it a couple of years ago but for some reason on this thread I think he enjoyed watching some guys make arses of themselves instead of explaining to them what he really teaches.

[Arnsybill]

[quote name='Donny Ross' timestamp='1385264054' post='8197964']
I just got sucked back into this site from a long hiatus...couldnt stay away.

Ive read all 4 pages and a couple observations:

1. I've sent my swing to Bradley. His observations helped, and I've reviewed his lesson notes often. I recommend sending him your swing videos, and I teach the game for a living.

2. Only ONE poster talked about whether or not he could even physically get the club into that flatter position. Many of you will NEVER be able to get the club into the position that some of these gentlemen prescribe to. You just physically might not be able to. Shame on any teacher that force-feeds you this before checking you out...and if they dont then find someone who knows how.

3. I find it interesting that someone 6-4 is using a 5-9 Ben Hogan as a swing model. I get it, but still. All that god-given leverage..
[/quote]


Thanks. Interesting. Could you please give more details re. point 2... How can you determine if you have the athletic, physical ability?

[playa]

[quote name='Massforce' timestamp='1388771424' post='8391351']
Hey first post here. I worked with Brad for a couple years at a course, and can tell you he knows his stuff. The best player I have played with and the most modest. He could teach any method e would like, but is teaching what he believes to be the best. He was a player that made his own swing through practice and a great ball striker, he started changing his swing as the coach said and contiually got worse. He started getting coached for the same reason many pros do, he hit the ball great but wanted to get better. All the things that they took out of his swing were the things that made him hit it good, although then he did not know this.

He is great to learn from, somebody said it is rare to have a previous player and ball striker of that level that teaches. He has knowledge that is unique. He has been in tournaments with great ball strikers, talked with them, and knows the commanalities that create the ball flight and sound great ball strikers create.

A few said that his swing and Erikson are nothing a like and you are correct in appearance, but not in function. Brad teaches how to create and use pressures in the swing. Opposing forces can create that pressure. You have many pressures in the swing, the ulitmate goal is to have a pressured shaft at impact.

The club has to slow down when it hits the ball, but some say if that is correct then how can he be accelerating through the strike. He is saying if the ball was not there and you were accelerating through the strike then the shaft would have pressure in it and flexed backwards after where the ball would have been. When the ball is there there and hit with a pressured shaft the clubhead slows down at impact, this causes the pressured shaft to release. The shaft releases its energy into the ball. Some of you might say it does not do anything, do some research on slap shots in hockey. The goal is to do the same thing but we do not use the ground before impact.
[/quote]
I'm Aussie and can remember Hughes when he started and he was a super ball striker, one of the guys who stood out even among tour players. Sounds like he is another addition to the long list of great players ruined by so called golf teachers. So many great players of the past taught themselves and didn't take lessons. Why would a tour player think a guy who would struggle to break 90 on tour would know more than them about how to hit a golf ball. IMO the only guys worth getting lessons from if you are a tour player would be a former tour player who used to hit better than you. I'm not even a good am and I don't trust teachers. I have avoided lessons like the plague for over 10 years and have slowlyimproved, but I would see BH in a flash if given the opportunity. As stated, he has his own eexperience plus a career of watching other great players in action to call on.

[Massforce]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1388771667' post='8391371']
What was Brad's stock shot when he killed the field in the Aussie Masters? Seemed like it was an online to slight pull fade.
[/quote]
He would hit it both ways when we practiced, but fade would be his shot. The ball does not curve much, sounds like hitting pebbles, rocks when he was flushing. Worked with him a few years ago in the US before he went back to Australia, do not know the exact shot in the tournament.

[quote name='PreppySlapCut' timestamp='1388863899' post='8397679']
Maybe if the keyboard jockeys on here hadn't been so hellbent on trying to tear him down it'd be easier to get an answer from BH directly. Unfortunately, world-class players who give advice and talk of their experiences for free on internet forums don't come around that often...
[/quote]
Correct, he does want players to learn and ask him questions. He post a lot on forums and has many students, if they ask questions to say thats dumb or not right then he would rather give free advice to someone else. I have been reading things on here for two years, and think there is some of the best information on here. There are many different people on here that I have learned from and like 70% of what they say, just because the 30% that didn't work for me doesn't mean I should say they are wrong. I just do not use that 30% and don't comment on it, thats why this is my second post.

[Massforce]

[quote name='Hstead' timestamp='1388866972' post='8397935']
I went back and checked some old posts etc to see if I could understand some of BH's stuff better. I believe the whole problem on this site was the "super slotting" where guys were making large moves that were drastic to get the "feel" of the move vs where the club actually is swung in real time. I may be wrong but I think that is what derailed the thread. I was one of those guys that incorrectly assumed BH taught SS in the beginning thinking BH was wanting to see the club swung from way under plane, too far in to out. But that is not what I have found. I was skeptical because that was my exact problem in the past, way too under plane. Brad explained it a couple of years ago but for some reason on this thread I think he enjoyed watching some guys make arses of themselves instead of explaining to them what he really teaches.
[/quote]

His swing being different than Erikson goes exacly with what they teach, players create the pressures and opposing forces in different ways. Greg Norman and Johnny Miller look different than Bobby Jones and Sandy Lyle, all build and use the same pressures. Norman and Miller swing back out to in, flattening the shaft with forearm rotation. Jones and Lyle swing back in to out, flattening the shaft with forearm rotation. Same thing is going on, many ways to do it.

He does not teach the super slotting, showed me about it before he left. I have done 9 modules with him, and it is not a needed additon. Module 6 covers the shaft flattening and slotting, super slotting is a next level to that.

He is smart, creating opposing forces. When you were swinging in to out and having trouble from under plane I would think you were CF releasing. He teaches how to CP release from under plane, but it must be set up at transition with the shaft flattening forearm rotation because it is needed later in the swing.

[Darth Leverage]

[quote name='Hstead' timestamp='1388866972' post='8397935']
I went back and checked some old posts etc to see if I could understand some of BH's stuff better. I believe the whole problem on this site was the "super slotting" where guys were making large moves that were drastic to get the "feel" of the move vs where the club actually is swung in real time. I may be wrong but I think that is what derailed the thread. I was one of those guys that incorrectly assumed BH taught SS in the beginning thinking BH was wanting to see the club swung from way under plane, too far in to out. But that is not what I have found. I was skeptical because that was my exact problem in the past, way too under plane. Brad explained it a couple of years ago but for some reason on this thread I think he enjoyed watching some guys make arses of themselves instead of explaining to them what he really teaches.
[/quote]

I agree with a lot of ABS stuff, just not the super slotting. Or the lack of interest in the backswing. The super slotting is what derailed the thread, then the physics huff and puff. However if Brad has his name on ABS then people will assume that he endorses the elective module. He admits he does not, so curious people like myself will ask why not. I know that is takes a special kind of student to meet the criteria.

[RBImGuy]

[quote name='playa' timestamp='1388954272' post='8403595']

Why would a tour player think a guy who would struggle to break 90 on tour would know more than them about how to hit a golf ball. IMO the only guys worth getting lessons from if you are a tour player would be a former tour player who used to hit better than you.
[/quote]

It seems logical normally that why take a lesson from someone who might not been a tour pro but if that was true you wouldnt have trainers in pole jumping or high jump as very few have actually competed or done such (jumped high enough) as they are better as a trainer.
You also can ask why Bradley went to a trainer and ruined his swing in the first place and not stayed and just played.
You can argue that well this guy or that guy or that trainer or this trainer dont know what goes on and true enough if analyzing the golf field it seems to be filled with a load of debate about something that already should been a standard as there isnt that many ways you can create the needed force to make the ball behave as it should.

Talking with tour level players or trainers they have no clue what they actually are trying to do or do so when someone would suggest to me that a tour pro gone trainer knows what he does my first thought would be sceptism as there is no way to say they actually do know things.
The funny thing you find is that the tour pro who was good and then went to a swing trainer and lost their swing and game along the way those also tends to be better equipped to teach.

I just point out your own logic is flawed.

Bradley base his teachings on what the old players did and played with a different equipment and courses.
There are good things to find there but seldom its their technique as much about their ability to actually play that level even when not really understanding how they were able to do so. What Bradley states and what someone like Tapio states from 4D swing is essentially the same as it cant be much difference in a golf swing due to the physics requried.

I would counter argue the golf swing taught as you will be a shorter hitter normally and need to build muscle to stay in the ballpark.
But that would derail this so I stop.

[tembolo1284]

This is good stuff. I hope Bradley comes back.

[Massforce]

[quote name='MadForeIt' timestamp='1388970805' post='8405103']
[quote name='Hstead' timestamp='1388866972' post='8397935']
I went back and checked some old posts etc to see if I could understand some of BH's stuff better. I believe the whole problem on this site was the "super slotting" where guys were making large moves that were drastic to get the "feel" of the move vs where the club actually is swung in real time. I may be wrong but I think that is what derailed the thread. I was one of those guys that incorrectly assumed BH taught SS in the beginning thinking BH was wanting to see the club swung from way under plane, too far in to out. But that is not what I have found. I was skeptical because that was my exact problem in the past, way too under plane. Brad explained it a couple of years ago but for some reason on this thread I think he enjoyed watching some guys make arses of themselves instead of explaining to them what he really teaches.
[/quote]

I agree with a lot of ABS stuff, just not the super slotting. Or the lack of interest in the backswing. The super slotting is what derailed the thread, then the physics huff and puff. However if Brad has his name on ABS then people will assume that he endorses the elective module. He admits he does not, so curious people like myself will ask why not. I know that is takes a special kind of student to meet the criteria.
[/quote]

I will have to ask him for sure if he endorses it or not, but he did show it to me when he first learned it. It is not part of the required ABS, but the student can choose to do it. It is hard, you must be able to rotate your forearms enough to get the shaft flat enough and face open enough to be in that slot combined with being able to use all that rotation you have created. To use the rotation created by that slot you need a great pivot rotation to bring the shaft from that deep behind and great forearm rotation to square the club from that open.

Every player that does not know ABS would say all this is teaching is how to get stuck. Most players would feel that way and thats why John and Brad are big on post impact pivot thrust. That is the only thing that will bring the club into impact correctly from that postition. There are people that know how to fly a space shuttle that do not fly space shuttles. Knowing how to do it and the ability to do it are different. It would be a small number that could do it correctly. This has more to do with why he might not teach it, but I have only heard him speak very highly of John thoughts on the swing and ABS. I have ask him every question I could think of and still have not heard him say John or ABS is wrong.

Hogan stood behind his weak grip of the club, pros hit weak fades doing what he taught in the book or what he told them. He did not say he was wrong, he said they are doing it wrong. They were not doing the grip wrong, but instead the pivot. Hogan did not have a weak ball flight, but it was a fade.They were hitting weak fades with the same grip that Hogan used to hit the best ball striking fades in golf. The grip does not make players slice, the grip only reveals how much is lacking. He was a worker and wanted everybody to work, here is the grip. He gives you x + y = z to figure. Z is Hogan, X is the grip, solve for Y.

“I hit my right shoulder on my downswing, I lag so much. One day, I lagged so much, I hit my right ankle!” Moe Norman
Moe Norman had his own version of this, and he was not wrong.

[Massforce]

[quote name='MadForeIt' timestamp='1388970805' post='8405103']
[quote name='Hstead' timestamp='1388866972' post='8397935']
I went back and checked some old posts etc to see if I could understand some of BH's stuff better. I believe the whole problem on this site was the "super slotting" where guys were making large moves that were drastic to get the "feel" of the move vs where the club actually is swung in real time. I may be wrong but I think that is what derailed the thread. I was one of those guys that incorrectly assumed BH taught SS in the beginning thinking BH was wanting to see the club swung from way under plane, too far in to out. But that is not what I have found. I was skeptical because that was my exact problem in the past, way too under plane. Brad explained it a couple of years ago but for some reason on this thread I think he enjoyed watching some guys make arses of themselves instead of explaining to them what he really teaches.
[/quote]

I agree with a lot of ABS stuff, just not the super slotting. Or the lack of interest in the backswing. The super slotting is what derailed the thread, then the physics huff and puff. However if Brad has his name on ABS then people will assume that he endorses the elective module. He admits he does not, so curious people like myself will ask why not. I know that is takes a special kind of student to meet the criteria.
[/quote]

Meant to reply to the backswing also, and why it's not important to ABS. It matters but is not a swing key, it is secondary. You learn the drills and how they feel, then the backswing is personal preference on how to get the club to the top. Once at transition the training takes over. Brad had pictures on his wall of the greatest ball strikers displaying each module, one shows Nicklaus, Floyd, Hogan, Snead, Jones, Knudson, Trevino, more on the backswing. All different. This is the only part of the swing that has many differences between them. Each player does what feels best to them to to put them in the position to start the downswing. If Floyd was taught to swing back a certain way it might have made him lose his feel of how to get the club into a position that made him hit how he did. Same with all the greats and most important is that backswings are a result from what each player is doing

[Massforce]

The important thing is that backswings are a result of what each player is trying to do on the downswing. Most teach the downswing is a result of what each player is trying to do on the backswing. Trying to explain more of how it works, not down anything.

[Donny Ross]

[quote name='Arnsybill' timestamp='1388939884' post='8402381']
[quote name='Donny Ross' timestamp='1385264054' post='8197964']
I just got sucked back into this site from a long hiatus...couldnt stay away.

Ive read all 4 pages and a couple observations:

1. I've sent my swing to Bradley. His observations helped, and I've reviewed his lesson notes often. I recommend sending him your swing videos, and I teach the game for a living.

2. Only ONE poster talked about whether or not he could even physically get the club into that flatter position. Many of you will NEVER be able to get the club into the position that some of these gentlemen prescribe to. You just physically might not be able to. Shame on any teacher that force-feeds you this before checking you out...and if they dont then find someone who knows how.

3. I find it interesting that someone 6-4 is using a 5-9 Ben Hogan as a swing model. I get it, but still. All that god-given leverage..
[/quote]


Thanks. Interesting. Could you please give more details re. point 2... How can you determine if you have the athletic, physical ability?
[/quote]


Measure it.

[tembolo1284]

bradley hasn't been back in awhile eh? Too bad!

[ej002]

[quote name='no where to look' timestamp='1391204206' post='8573772']
[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1391202782' post='8573620']
There's evidence that fast hip contribute to distance/power. Rory had the fastest hips TPI has measured. Just because Monte hit one 300+ off of his knees doesn't mean he didn't use his hips. I guarantee he didn't JUST swing his arms. He still had sequence of other parts of the body which transferred to his arms and hands last.
[/quote]

TB07, I think your referring to the kinematic sequence.
As per TPI, clubhead speed is a result of properly timed DECELERATION in sequence.
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qN1KSyIJ_Gg"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qN1KSyIJ_Gg[/url]
[/quote]

Here you Brad - show to the lag tell him science refutes the "5th accumulator"

Cheers

[gogo29732]

All I can say is I had a lesson from BH back in Sept. completely changed my ball striking. much more solid and actually simpler now. Hitting it much better - putter currently holding me back some. but hdcp has improved from 3 to 0, just because my GIR improved so much. averaging 10.5 currently which is up from ~ 7 per. He hit some balls to demonstrate certain aspects....WOW. it makes a completely different sound. good stuff...highly recommend Bradley. need to find out when he is back in the US for a review / tune up.

[tembolo1284]

so is bradley gone? Can't we all just get along?

[bph7]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1399653358' post='9263875']
so is bradley gone? Can't we all just get along?
[/quote]

Why do you dig these threads back up after three months lol? But yeh, based on how this thread went, I wouldn't imagine Bradley would be inclined to spend much time posting here, and I certainly wouldn't blame him for that.

[tembolo1284]

Still trying to find out more about tumbling and shallowing for maximum porkage.

[ej002]

[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1399653925' post='9263927']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1399653358' post='9263875']
so is bradley gone? Can't we all just get along?
[/quote]

Why do you dig these threads back up after three months lol? But yeh, based on how this thread went, I wouldn't imagine Bradley would be inclined to spend much time posting here, and I certainly wouldn't blame him for that.
[/quote]
Yeah he failed to answer tough questions and flipped out.

I am still interested how someone can hit a ball with a stressed shaft more than 10 feet high.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1399659607' post='9264409']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1399653925' post='9263927']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1399653358' post='9263875']
so is bradley gone? Can't we all just get along?
[/quote]

Why do you dig these threads back up after three months lol? But yeh, based on how this thread went, I wouldn't imagine Bradley would be inclined to spend much time posting here, and I certainly wouldn't blame him for that.
[/quote]
Yeah he failed to answer tough questions and flipped out.

I am still interested how someone can hit a ball with a stressed shaft more than 10 feet high.
[/quote]

8 feet high!

[bph7]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1399659607' post='9264409']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1399653925' post='9263927']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1399653358' post='9263875']
so is bradley gone? Can't we all just get along?
[/quote]

Why do you dig these threads back up after three months lol? But yeh, based on how this thread went, I wouldn't imagine Bradley would be inclined to spend much time posting here, and I certainly wouldn't blame him for that.
[/quote]
Yeah he failed to answer tough questions and flipped out.

I am still interested how someone can hit a ball with a stressed shaft more than 10 feet high.
[/quote]

I agree that I would've really like to see how he answered the tough questions, and I am not saying he is totally blameless. But at a certain point for a player of his caliber I can see how he feels like he is being hounded endlessly and it's just not worth the time for him. Again, it would've been nice to see how he answered some of this stuff, but I'd personally rather have someone like Brad Hughes posting, even if he avoids certain things, than not posting at all.

[ej002]

Agreed.

[sixunder]

ABS is not about excessive forward lean at impact actually about normal at impact like Manzella terms. So the low shot comment is off base.
Like most great teachers that were on this site they dont have time to give out every answer to all questions

[bph7]

He said "stressed shaft" not "forward lean"...

[sixunder]

bph 7 thanks for correction. We all know the shaft bends proven by scientists thru shaft bending profiles also thru Manzella latest summit video on youtube this is proven facts. ABS used the word stress or stressed just there word meaning it exists . They also knew it would go back to normal or bend the other way or toe down effect this was not a new discovery.
That stress or bending in the change of direction is a feel or awareness.