Bradley Hughes, Impact, the truth about your swing.

[bph7]

[quote name='scopek' timestamp='1402537378' post='9477417']
[quote name='Atrayn' timestamp='1402536536' post='9477313']
Hopefully I'm not a sociopath. I read all the nitpicking regarding a word called "stressing" th shaft. [b]I paid for ABS. It's well worth it[/b]. The stressing is no different than what Lynn Blake teaches as pressuring. It's vital to maintain it. People get so hung up on words. Open your mind to similar philosophy. The choice of words my be slightly different but what they describe is basically the same thing.
[/quote]

did you work with Bradely Huges? Did you find the ABS complimented the SF teaching and/or could compliment a pivot swing that Hardy teaches? I've debated about doing his program. He told me that I would have a lot of access to him and could just send in videos just about anytime to make sure I'm doing the drills correctly.
[/quote]

I know enough about those three methods to tell you they don't compliment each very well at all. Hardy's move with the right arm in transition/ds is about the total opposite of what Bradley would want. SF teaches you to let the pivot be the primary control of the swing, while ABS teaches the active firing of arms and wrists, with the pivot taking over later and being strong enough to keep clubface control. SF and ABS both can produce similar looking, "angle-hinge-like" post impact looks, but they get there in almost totally different ways.

[Asiz]

[quote name='scopek' timestamp='1402582868' post='9479883']
[quote name='Hawkeye77' timestamp='1402542540' post='9477943']

It must have been middle school, because there really is no debate about Jimmy Page being historically more significant than EVH, but I'll take Stevie Ray Vaughn over either.
[/quote]
Ha! I'm with you on both points. Yes, it was in the 80's. I recently watched a YouTube clip of some old Zeppelin--I forgot how brilliant Page was in his prime. And, yes, I hear ya about SRV---one of the all time best. I even like how he plays Jimmy Hendrix better then Jimmy Hendrix. But this is now WAY off topic....
[/quote]

I'm gonna have to disagree. SRV had some serious muscular guitar tone, but he was mostly copying Albert King. And when he wasn't copying King he was copying Hendrix. No wonder he could play Hendrix better than Hendrix, SRV was mostly a copycat giving it to listeners who enjoyed some "white" blues.

As far as Eddie Van Halen goes, a person needs to remember what was going on in rock and roll in 1977 before Van Halen came out. It was a whole lot of pentatonic 38 Special type sound. When Eddie came out, everyone had Marshalls, but no one was modifying them that hot. From their first record, they literally gave birth to the LA metal sound. No one was finger tapping till he did it. No one was using the whammy bar like he did and certainly not as often. No one was playing three note per string scales like he did. No one was playing as fast as he did. No one had the feel he had and although many imitators came out quickly following, no one could copy him enough to fool the listener into thinking they were actually him. Not true with Hendrix, not true with SRV.

The only reason SRV is still so influential is because no new guitar god has emerged to take his spot. Through out rock history, every 5-10 years a new guy would show up to take the spotlight and shift the focus. But not true in his case. Perhaps because kids are more interested in playing Guitar Hero than becoming a guitar hero.

[northgolf]

[quote name='hoganfan924' timestamp='1402540624' post='9477769']
Right, you'd have to have greater tangential clubhead acceleration than centripetal acceleration, especially with a Cg that is rear of the centerline of the shaft. And I will submit that that is a physical impossibility for a human, probably on any shot longer than a chip.

Fortunately, Tutelman saved some of the shaftlab profiles. Here's a link:
[url="http://www.tutelman.com/golf/shafts/ShaftLab1.php"]http://www.tutelman....s/ShaftLab1.php[/url]
[/quote]

Yes, Tutelman is fascinating. I still haven't gotten my mind around the effect of rotation of the shaft in the downswing (this is my third time I've been through that article).

[tembolo1284]

That is such a cool article.

[Atrayn]

[quote name='hoganfan924' timestamp='1402538447' post='9477533']
[quote name='Atrayn' timestamp='1402536536' post='9477313']
Hopefully I'm not a sociopath. I read all the nitpicking regarding a word called "stressing" th shaft. I paid for ABS. It's well worth it. The stressing is no different than what Lynn Blake teaches as pressuring. It's vital to maintain it. People get so hung up on words. Open your mind to similar philosophy. The choice of words my be slightly different but what they describe is basically the same thing.
[/quote]

The devil is in the details. Stressing the shaft is done by every half decent player, but [b][i]delivering a pre-stressed shaft into impact[/i][/b] is entirely different. That is what the ABS guys believe and promote (that the shaft is still bent backwards at the start of impact). I've seen a lot of the old true temper shaftlab data and asked them some questions about this. Everyone that they ever measured (according to the guy I spoke to and the tour pro profiles that they had), has forward shaft kick at impact (the shaft has already kicked forward, past it's neutral axis by the start of impact). That means that they never measured anyone who delivers a "pre-stressed shaft into impact" on a full swing. I've also never seen any super high speed face on of anyone doing so either (that doesn't suffer rolling shutter effect). I won't say it's impossible, just that nobody has ever presented credible evidence that it is done by Jon, Bradley or anyone else on a regular basis.
[/quote]

I never got any of that out of the ABS stuff. It's about pressuring the shaft into impact. I have seen the data. How is pressuring ENTIRELY different than Pre-stressing since pressure adds stress?
You are absolutely correct in saying the devil is in the details. Get too wrapped up in them and that devil will screw with your mind....

I never worked with Bradley. I actually only went through Mod 1 as all I needed for my game was right there even though I paid for 3 modules. I read everything he's ever put out though and practiced quite a bit of the stuff that he puts out there as well as John. To me, it's more about intent. Just like I said about Lynn Blake.
The work that is done in Mod 1 really allows you to use the forearms coming into impact without rolling and from a very open, shallow position. Am I technically pre-stressing the shaft? I can guarantee you I am applying a heck of a lot more pressure into it. The driver swing and iron swing is different due to AOA. I'm trying to keep the iron loaded through impact and beyond. Once it hits the ground, the shaft reacts.

Do I honestly care about what the shaft does on high speed video? Nope. But I definitely want a shaft that suits my swing. This is why ABS wants stiff and heavier clubs as well as flatter.

[hoganfan924]

[quote name='Atrayn' timestamp='1402672625' post='9487773']
[quote name='hoganfan924' timestamp='1402538447' post='9477533']
[quote name='Atrayn' timestamp='1402536536' post='9477313']
Hopefully I'm not a sociopath. I read all the nitpicking regarding a word called "stressing" th shaft. I paid for ABS. It's well worth it. The stressing is no different than what Lynn Blake teaches as pressuring. It's vital to maintain it. People get so hung up on words. Open your mind to similar philosophy. The choice of words my be slightly different but what they describe is basically the same thing.
[/quote]

The devil is in the details. Stressing the shaft is done by every half decent player, but [b][i]delivering a pre-stressed shaft into impact[/i][/b] is entirely different. That is what the ABS guys believe and promote (that the shaft is still bent backwards at the start of impact). I've seen a lot of the old true temper shaftlab data and asked them some questions about this. Everyone that they ever measured (according to the guy I spoke to and the tour pro profiles that they had), has forward shaft kick at impact (the shaft has already kicked forward, past it's neutral axis by the start of impact). That means that they never measured anyone who delivers a "pre-stressed shaft into impact" on a full swing. I've also never seen any super high speed face on of anyone doing so either (that doesn't suffer rolling shutter effect). I won't say it's impossible, just that nobody has ever presented credible evidence that it is done by Jon, Bradley or anyone else on a regular basis.
[/quote]

I never got any of that out of the ABS stuff. It's about pressuring the shaft into impact. I have seen the data. How is pressuring ENTIRELY different than Pre-stressing since pressure adds stress?
You are absolutely correct in saying the devil is in the details. Get too wrapped up in them and that devil will screw with your mind....

I never worked with Bradley. I actually only went through Mod 1 as all I needed for my game was right there even though I paid for 3 modules. I read everything he's ever put out though and practiced quite a bit of the stuff that he puts out there as well as John. To me, it's more about intent. Just like I said about Lynn Blake.
The work that is done in Mod 1 really allows you to use the forearms coming into impact without rolling and from a very open, shallow position. Am I technically pre-stressing the shaft? I can guarantee you I am applying a heck of a lot more pressure into it. The driver swing and iron swing is different due to AOA. I'm trying to keep the iron loaded through impact and beyond. Once it hits the ground, the shaft reacts.

Do I honestly care about what the shaft does on high speed video? Nope. But I definitely want a shaft that suits my swing. This is why ABS wants stiff and heavier clubs as well as flatter.
[/quote]

Because Jon posted a video a couple of years ago claiming he came into impact with a "pre-stressed" shaft. Claimed the evidence was that the shaft was bent back. Very poor HS camera and really showed nothing conclusive.

You can have a lot of "lag pressure" from the right index finger or knuckle and the shaft will still be kicked forward past the neutral axis at impact.

Here's one of the videos. Obviously when he's describing "holding shaft flex" he's not talking about forward flex!:

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJ_wqBdGCms"]https://www.youtube....h?v=qJ_wqBdGCms[/url]

Here's his original video of 5 years ago making the same claim:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjvJPeBWJGk

[Atrayn]

Not sure what your point is. These are just two videos showing him pressuring the shaft through impact. It's a key fundamental that is in alignment with this type of swing.
To me, it's a basic fundamental. Lynn Blake calls PP3 the secret. JE is just stating the same thing.

The only part of LB's video I don't like is that he demonstrates, maybe not on purpose the left armpit disconnecting through impact at the end.

[url="http://youtu.be/hzG7thLPnBU"]http://youtu.be/hzG7thLPnBU[/url]

[NewStart14]

[quote name='nfbandon' timestamp='1384637763' post='8159078']
As far as knee flex, yes that is desired. I have more than some because I am 6'4" playing gear 6 degrees flat. The flat gear is encouraged in ABS for various reasons. We drop into the ground, and then use the ground to pivot against. We do not believe in pivoting aggressively immediately, but rather we add knee flex in transition, then rotate our forearms and then pivot at and post impact. The later pivot pins the arms to the body and prevents any flip. You can see good clubface control on this swing.
[/quote]

Are you still around? Sent you a pm.

[flatnstuck]

You can find nfbandon on SITD. He has a lengthy thread there called in search of the great ballstrikers. Here's a recent driver swing. Pretty strong in my opinion:

http://youtu.be/my7ls_cGzXo

[NewStart14]

Thanks. I'm also 6-4 and just wanted some input from him concerning abs.

[Darth Leverage]

New start just head over to the ABS forum. He's active there...

Be warned though, it's not for everyone. Good luck with the swing

[Cwing]

Good stuff

[tembolo1284]

Was watching Brad play great in 1998 at the Aussie masters on youtube.

Does anyone know what his ball flight was in that tournament? Was it an online fade? Maybe slight pull fade?

[oikos1]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1409070223' post='10011391']
Was watching Brad play great in 1998 at the Aussie masters on youtube.

Does anyone know what his ball flight was in that tournament? Was it an online fade? Maybe slight pull fade?
[/quote]

Not sure about ballflight, but he publicly stated on SITD he hated the swing that won him the 1998 record setting (-24) Australian Masters. Still can't comprehend that...

[ej002]

Well, I guess the verdict is in. Brad helped Allenby play right off the tour.

[Hstead]

I don't know exactly when Brad started working with Allenby, but his ball striking went from #13 in Strokes Gained in 2011, to the crapper in 2012-2015.

http://www.pgatour.com/players/player.10885.robert-allenby.html/statistics

[Slothead]

why is it bradley hughes doesn't seem to post here anymore on this thread? he might be the best player and teacher on this message board then.

[Ghost of Snead]

[quote name='Slothead' timestamp='1441124597' post='12245544']
why is it bradley hughes doesn't seem to post here anymore on this thread? he might be the best player and teacher on this message board then.
[/quote]

Maybe he tired of all of the wannabe instructors with no credibility who throw out random swing solutions with no substance behind them ?

[ej002]

[quote name='Ghost of Snead' timestamp='1441126642' post='12245802']
[quote name='Slothead' timestamp='1441124597' post='12245544']
why is it bradley hughes doesn't seem to post here anymore on this thread? he might be the best player and teacher on this message board then.
[/quote]

Maybe he tired of all of the wannabe instructors with no credibility who throw out random swing solutions with no substance behind them ?
[/quote]

There is plenty of substance in this thread. I resurrected it, b/c what many of us were saying ties in nicely with what Monte and Dan are saying in the other thread. Watch Dan's video, watch the superslotting demo. Read Grady's concession that the SS move strives to "shallow shaft, but steep AoA". It has been proven that Sergio's smash is very inefficient and he is notoriously steep. It has been proven that Brad shifts out and shallows, rather than shallows and steepen. Now Allenby lost his card.

So what is the point of teaching the massive hand drop, super CF move? Any answer other than "modern equipment ruined golf" will be appreciated. Thanks.

[Slothead]

i did watch the vsp video, and although there was maybe one good point within, which i give credit to, it was basically 13 minutes too long for my liking so it was filed under jacksonville jibberish. [quote name='Ghost of Snead' timestamp='1441126642' post='12245802']
[quote name='Slothead' timestamp='1441124597' post='12245544']
why is it bradley hughes doesn't seem to post here anymore on this thread? he might be the best player and teacher on this message board then.
[/quote]

Maybe he tired of all of the wannabe instructors with no credibility who throw out random swing solutions with no substance behind them ?
[/quote]

i've noticed that too, this place is crawling with amateurs.

[andre2you]

I have been following and watching Bradley for the past 6 months and have been stuck with the nasty hooks following his method for this past year. I have even asked for help with alignment and setup in the forum thinking it was my setup. I just stumbled upon the thread since it was resurrected and read thru it (that's a lot of reading). What I have stumbled upon was mentioned in the early pages of this thread, that just triggered something in my brain. What PreppySlapCut mentions is on page 2 for this thread;

"[color=#282828]As a word of caution to anyone wading into these waters: PLEASE understand that you NEED to pair that laying down of the shaft with some sort of "tumble" into impact. You can't just rotate out of Dodge with the club flattening below plane and expect solid results. Mr. Hughes says something in the first video (without explaining it in depth) that's key. That feeling of a "hook" entry and a "slice" exit, or opposing forces...when the club is shallowing that much you need to know how to unload all of that stored energy into the ball. If not, you're way underneath and have almost no chance to do anything other than fight a HUGE two way miss." [/color]

[color=#282828]I never heard about the opposing force or just totally missed it. No wonder to fix my hook issue (bandaid) I had to open the face of every club to stop the hook which sometimes caused a big block to the right. Another screwup for me was the dreaded double cross where I would try to hit a cut with the driver and the ball would just go straight and way longer than I expected. So, after reading the above I went out to hit some balls and tried to hit a cut on all shots and the ball just flew straight and long (there were no crazy hooks). I'm back to hitting the center of the club face and not the bottom 2 grooves. Holy Cow, this is what I have been missing the entire golf season. Thanks Guys for bring this thread back alive. I need to go out a play to see if I can take the range to the course.[/color]

[Slothead]

[quote]That feeling of a "hook" entry and a "slice" exit, or opposing forces...[/quote]

welcome to the flat spot. when you know its access, enjoy in knowing you are not caught like those in a backswing labyrinth under plane seeking guidance

[TB07]

Slot, *cough Cary cough*

I'm starting to enjoy your posts for the humor if nothing else.

[Ghost of Snead]

[quote name='Slothead' timestamp='1441129444' post='12246060']
i did watch the vsp video, and although there was maybe one good point within, which i give credit to, it was basically 13 minutes too long for my liking so it was filed under jacksonville jibberish. [quote name='Ghost of Snead' timestamp='1441126642' post='12245802']
[quote name='Slothead' timestamp='1441124597' post='12245544']
why is it bradley hughes doesn't seem to post here anymore on this thread? he might be the best player and teacher on this message board then.
[/quote]

Maybe he tired of all of the wannabe instructors with no credibility who throw out random swing solutions with no substance behind them ?
[/quote]

i've noticed that too, this place is crawling with amateurs.
[/quote]

You are also an amateur, unless you post credentials to the contrary.

[Ghost of Snead]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1441127756' post='12245912']
[quote name='Ghost of Snead' timestamp='1441126642' post='12245802']
[quote name='Slothead' timestamp='1441124597' post='12245544']
why is it bradley hughes doesn't seem to post here anymore on this thread? he might be the best player and teacher on this message board then.
[/quote]

Maybe he tired of all of the wannabe instructors with no credibility who throw out random swing solutions with no substance behind them ?
[/quote]

There is plenty of substance in this thread. I resurrected it, b/c what many of us were saying ties in nicely with what Monte and Dan are saying in the other thread. Watch Dan's video, watch the superslotting demo. Read Grady's concession that the SS move strives to "shallow shaft, but steep AoA". It has been proven that Sergio's smash is very inefficient and he is notoriously steep. It has been proven that Brad shifts out and shallows, rather than shallows and steepen. Now Allenby lost his card.

[b]So what is the point of teaching the massive hand drop, super CF move? [/b] Any answer other than "modern equipment ruined golf" will be appreciated. Thanks.
[/quote]

It's aesthetically pleasing and people will compare you to Hogan ?

[ej002]

[quote name='Ghost of Snead' timestamp='1441133811' post='12246468']

It's aesthetically pleasing and people will compare you to Hogan ?
[/quote]

And they would be wrong.

[Slothead]

[quote name='Ghost of Snead' timestamp='1441133496' post='12246436']
[quote name='Slothead' timestamp='1441129444' post='12246060']
i did watch the vsp video, and although there was maybe one good point within, which i give credit to, it was basically 13 minutes too long for my liking so it was filed under jacksonville jibberish. [quote name='Ghost of Snead' timestamp='1441126642' post='12245802']
[quote name='Slothead' timestamp='1441124597' post='12245544']
why is it bradley hughes doesn't seem to post here anymore on this thread? he might be the best player and teacher on this message board then.
[/quote]

Maybe he tired of all of the wannabe instructors with no credibility who throw out random swing solutions with no substance behind them ?
[/quote]

i've noticed that too, this place is crawling with amateurs.
[/quote]

You are also an amateur, unless you post credentials to the contrary.
[/quote]

good, nice to know, thanks for the heads up.

[bph7]

Not sure where else to post this, but it appears Bradley is now working with "secretgolf". Seems to be a rebranding of sorts of secret in the dirt I guess with Elk. Anyone subscribe to this site? Any good stuff on there? Anyone know if Bradley is still working with Allenby or how he's doing? I always loved Allenby's move, would be great to see him contending again.

[Strike Force]

The problem many have with Bradley Hughes' teaching philosophy is his close association and approving agreement with John (Lag Pressure) Erickson's weird swing methodology.

[northgolf]

Not sure where else to post this, but it appears Bradley is now working with "secretgolf". Seems to be a rebranding of sorts of secret in the dirt I guess with Elk. Anyone subscribe to this site? Any good stuff on there? Anyone know if Bradley is still working with Allenby or how he's doing? I always loved Allenby's move, would be great to see him contending again.

 

Which Allenby move is that, falling off a bar stool or sticking his face in front of a fist? What's Allenby earned on tour this year, ~25K? Aw, FM, I coulda been a contenda....