Who is going to build a shorter driver based on Wishon article?

[PeanutsDaddy]

Deck,

"You keep asking for it, and with the hope you might learn something, I will continue to reply . . ." A lead-in that is sure to generate some positive dialogue. A nice way to address a kind man with a lifetime's worth of knowledge, who is willing to freely share and listen. Considering that Mr. Wishon responds to personal messages maybe this one was best kept to a one-on-one.

[deck]

[quote name='PeanutsDaddy' timestamp='1389578144' post='8449471']
Deck,

"You keep asking for it, and with the hope you might learn something, I will continue to reply . . ." A lead-in that is sure to generate some positive dialogue. A positive way to address a kind man with a lifetime's worth of knowledge, who is willing to freely share and listen.
[/quote]

Yes. Exactly why I added him to block list.

Also add.....answer PM's and emails.

[Pigems]

[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1389577963' post='8449449']
[quote name='Kadin 25' timestamp='1389572434' post='8448897']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1389568832' post='8448583']
[quote name='Kadin 25' timestamp='1389564838' post='8448201']
If you are going to opt to trim a driver down rather than getting one built to spec (if you have the means I recommend you give it a try, you won't be disappointed)

Just a thought on cutting down an existing driver...

When cutting down an existing driver, is this matter of what swingweight do you go for when you cut down a club. Some try to duplicate the swingweight they had at the longer length. That often times makes the headweight "feel" to be too heavy, especially if they cut 1" or more off the existing driver. So when cutting an inch or more, a nice rule of thumb is to experiment with a swingweight that is lower than what you had before at the longer length and take it from there to hunt for that point where you can feel the head enough during the swing but not too much.

I see time and time again players who chop an inch off their driver and adjust the swing weight back to the original spec and often more times than not, they are not happy with the out come.

So keep in mind... going lower or just experiment until you get the "feel" right, don't get too caught up in numbers.

Hope that helps a little....Kadin
[/quote]

Don't know enough about making the SW adjustment, which is one of the reason's I've been hesitant to cut down my existing driver (besides what I've already articulated). Gripping down seems to be the easiest solution, though maybe not the most efficient.
[/quote]Sean you don't have to know anything about swing weight. Just add some lead tape, take a few swings and repeat this process until you can "feel" the head on the driver through the swing. To be honest you don't have to know what the actual swing weight is, that's just a reference point for when you are building.

Just go out and tinker until it feels good.
[/quote]

Where do you put the lead tape, Kadin?
[/quote]

I've been wondering this as well? Especially now that I got a new driver yesterday. I may take my old one and use it to experiment, gradually cut it down to 43" or 43.5" from 45.5" and play withheld lead tape. See if I can give it a draw bias maybe. I have a nastly slice some days lol

[Pigems]

[quote name='deck' timestamp='1389578254' post='8449481']
[quote name='PeanutsDaddy' timestamp='1389578144' post='8449471']
Deck,

"You keep asking for it, and with the hope you might learn something, I will continue to reply . . ." A lead-in that is sure to generate some positive dialogue. A positive way to address a kind man with a lifetime's worth of knowledge, who is willing to freely share and listen.
[/quote]

Yes. Exactly why I added him to block list.

Also add.....answer PM's and emails.
[/quote]

But how will you know if you still in his club or not?

[Kadin 25]

[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1389577963' post='8449449']
[quote name='Kadin 25' timestamp='1389572434' post='8448897']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1389568832' post='8448583']
[quote name='Kadin 25' timestamp='1389564838' post='8448201']
If you are going to opt to trim a driver down rather than getting one built to spec (if you have the means I recommend you give it a try, you won't be disappointed)

Just a thought on cutting down an existing driver...

When cutting down an existing driver, is this matter of what swingweight do you go for when you cut down a club. Some try to duplicate the swingweight they had at the longer length. That often times makes the headweight "feel" to be too heavy, especially if they cut 1" or more off the existing driver. So when cutting an inch or more, a nice rule of thumb is to experiment with a swingweight that is lower than what you had before at the longer length and take it from there to hunt for that point where you can feel the head enough during the swing but not too much.

I see time and time again players who chop an inch off their driver and adjust the swing weight back to the original spec and often more times than not, they are not happy with the out come.

So keep in mind... going lower or just experiment until you get the "feel" right, don't get too caught up in numbers.

Hope that helps a little....Kadin
[/quote]

Don't know enough about making the SW adjustment, which is one of the reason's I've been hesitant to cut down my existing driver (besides what I've already articulated). Gripping down seems to be the easiest solution, though maybe not the most efficient.
[/quote]Sean you don't have to know anything about swing weight. Just add some lead tape, take a few swings and repeat this process until you can "feel" the head on the driver through the swing. To be honest you don't have to know what the actual swing weight is, that's just a reference point for when you are building.

Just go out and tinker until it feels good.
[/quote]

Where do you put the lead tape, Kadin?
[/quote]Anywhere on the sole of the club will work just fine. Chances are you won't be adding enough to truly effect ball flight anyway.

[Pigems]

[quote name='Kadin 25' timestamp='1389579564' post='8449623']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1389577963' post='8449449']
[quote name='Kadin 25' timestamp='1389572434' post='8448897']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1389568832' post='8448583']
[quote name='Kadin 25' timestamp='1389564838' post='8448201']
If you are going to opt to trim a driver down rather than getting one built to spec (if you have the means I recommend you give it a try, you won't be disappointed)

Just a thought on cutting down an existing driver...

When cutting down an existing driver, is this matter of what swingweight do you go for when you cut down a club. Some try to duplicate the swingweight they had at the longer length. That often times makes the headweight "feel" to be too heavy, especially if they cut 1" or more off the existing driver. So when cutting an inch or more, a nice rule of thumb is to experiment with a swingweight that is lower than what you had before at the longer length and take it from there to hunt for that point where you can feel the head enough during the swing but not too much.

I see time and time again players who chop an inch off their driver and adjust the swing weight back to the original spec and often more times than not, they are not happy with the out come.

So keep in mind... going lower or just experiment until you get the "feel" right, don't get too caught up in numbers.

Hope that helps a little....Kadin
[/quote]

Don't know enough about making the SW adjustment, which is one of the reason's I've been hesitant to cut down my existing driver (besides what I've already articulated). Gripping down seems to be the easiest solution, though maybe not the most efficient.
[/quote]Sean you don't have to know anything about swing weight. Just add some lead tape, take a few swings and repeat this process until you can "feel" the head on the driver through the swing. To be honest you don't have to know what the actual swing weight is, that's just a reference point for when you are building.

Just go out and tinker until it feels good.
[/quote]

Where do you put the lead tape, Kadin?
[/quote]Anywhere on the sole of the club will work just fine. Chances are you won't be adding enough to truly effect ball flight anyway.
[/quote]

How much would I take to start to get into a draw bias(in grams)? And where would you want to put it?

[square]

As I wrote, and you quote, "he kept asking for it". i posted helpful suggestions for Mr. Wishon's product line, yet he chose to offer up patronizing replies.
In general terms, it is often wise to question authority. For example, guys like David Ledbetter and Dave Pelz, two well known golf industry authorities, have turned thousands of 70's shooters into 80's shooters. These guys write books, do industry panels, have the name recognition etc... , but what they are selling does not make sense. In summary, think for yourself and you might like what you discover. Hope this helps.


[quote name='PeanutsDaddy' timestamp='1389578144' post='8449471']
Deck,

"You keep asking for it, and with the hope you might learn something, I will continue to reply . . ." A lead-in that is sure to generate some positive dialogue. A nice way to address a kind man with a lifetime's worth of knowledge, who is willing to freely share and listen. Considering that Mr. Wishon responds to personal messages maybe this one was best kept to a one-on-one.
[/quote]

[chocolatte]

Great thread. Hope you all stay on course with more positive discussions. I find Wishon's replies mostly very geniune and informative. Of course, anyone is entitled to disagree with him, but so far I have not seen anyone coming up with any real arguments to prove otherwise.

[Sean2]

[quote name='Kadin 25' timestamp='1389579564' post='8449623']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1389577963' post='8449449']
[quote name='Kadin 25' timestamp='1389572434' post='8448897']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1389568832' post='8448583']
[quote name='Kadin 25' timestamp='1389564838' post='8448201']
If you are going to opt to trim a driver down rather than getting one built to spec (if you have the means I recommend you give it a try, you won't be disappointed)

Just a thought on cutting down an existing driver...

When cutting down an existing driver, is this matter of what swingweight do you go for when you cut down a club. Some try to duplicate the swingweight they had at the longer length. That often times makes the headweight "feel" to be too heavy, especially if they cut 1" or more off the existing driver. So when cutting an inch or more, a nice rule of thumb is to experiment with a swingweight that is lower than what you had before at the longer length and take it from there to hunt for that point where you can feel the head enough during the swing but not too much.

I see time and time again players who chop an inch off their driver and adjust the swing weight back to the original spec and often more times than not, they are not happy with the out come.

So keep in mind... going lower or just experiment until you get the "feel" right, don't get too caught up in numbers.

Hope that helps a little....Kadin
[/quote]

Don't know enough about making the SW adjustment, which is one of the reason's I've been hesitant to cut down my existing driver (besides what I've already articulated). Gripping down seems to be the easiest solution, though maybe not the most efficient.
[/quote]Sean you don't have to know anything about swing weight. Just add some lead tape, take a few swings and repeat this process until you can "feel" the head on the driver through the swing. To be honest you don't have to know what the actual swing weight is, that's just a reference point for when you are building.

Just go out and tinker until it feels good.
[/quote]

Where do you put the lead tape, Kadin?
[/quote]Anywhere on the sole of the club will work just fine. Chances are you won't be adding enough to truly effect ball flight anyway.
[/quote]

Thanks!

[mukster]

Kadin,
I cut down my Diablo Octane Black Tour to 44.5" at the end of last season. I lost some of the feel and I think I am going to lead tape it. I usually don't bounce the sole of my driver off the turf on purpose during a swing, but does the lead tape stay on pretty well with day to day use?
Thanks.

[deck]

[quote name='square' timestamp='1389585656' post='8450181']
As I wrote, and you quote, "he kept asking for it". i posted helpful suggestions for Mr. Wishon's product line, yet he chose to offer up patronizing replies.
In general terms, it is often wise to question authority. For example, guys like David Ledbetter and Dave Pelz, two well known golf industry authorities, have turned thousands of 70's shooters into 80's shooters. These guys write books, do industry panels, have the name recognition etc... , but what they are selling does not make sense. In summary, think for yourself and you might like what you discover. Hope this helps.


[quote name='PeanutsDaddy' timestamp='1389578144' post='8449471']
Deck,

"You keep asking for it, and with the hope you might learn something, I will continue to reply . . ." A lead-in that is sure to generate some positive dialogue. A nice way to address a kind man with a lifetime's worth of knowledge, who is willing to freely share and listen. Considering that Mr. Wishon responds to personal messages maybe this one was best kept to a one-on-one.
[/quote]
[/quote]

You mean the man who introduced the first adjustable loft driver and movable weight inside the head technology doesn't make sense?

Oh ok. Your opinion keeps going down in my book. You speak of questioning authority. What you are questioning is facts.

I unblocked you because this was too good to pass up

[Kadin 25]

[quote name='mukster' timestamp='1389588898' post='8450441']
Kadin,
I cut down my Diablo Octane Black Tour to 44.5" at the end of last season. I lost some of the feel and I think I am going to lead tape it. I usually don't bounce the sole of my driver off the turf on purpose during a swing, but does the lead tape stay on pretty well with day to day use?
Thanks.
[/quote]Lead tape is pretty durable and even if it should come off it's very cheap to replace.

[mukster]

[quote name='Kadin 25' timestamp='1389591215' post='8450583']
[quote name='mukster' timestamp='1389588898' post='8450441']
Kadin,
I cut down my Diablo Octane Black Tour to 44.5" at the end of last season. I lost some of the feel and I think I am going to lead tape it. I usually don't bounce the sole of my driver off the turf on purpose during a swing, but does the lead tape stay on pretty well with day to day use?
Thanks.
[/quote]Lead tape is pretty durable and even if it should come off it's very cheap to replace.
[/quote]
Thanks

[Mr Fade]

[quote name='Pigems' timestamp='1389574619' post='8449107']
[quote name='Mr Fade' timestamp='1389573081' post='8448953']
[quote name='Fourmyle of Ceres' timestamp='1389492696' post='8444129']
So what is the lightest (total weight, not swingweight) driver at 44" that anyone has ever used? I've never been able to get one under about 325g at 44" but in retrospect I should have given them a fair trial at C-something swingweight before mindlessly adding 6-8 grams of lead tape in search of the magic "D0" swingweight. Oh and I mean with a standard 50g grip.

Anyone managed to build one as light as 310-312g at 44" long? How did it play?

Guess the best starting point would be an under-50g ultralight shaft.
[/quote]

Well, my XHot is exactly 300g at 46". I´m cutting it down tomorrow to 44". I guess it will end up at about 290-295g (?) and swing weight to about C0 or something like that. Difficult to say because the head is very light (186g) but the sleeve attached to the shaft could (should?) be regarded as head weight when installed in the head. According to most posts this driver will end up unplayable… but I have found lighter sw to be underrated!
[/quote]

46"-44" is 2", isn't that an awful lot to cut off at once? Maybe you should buy a spare shaft and cut it down in case you don't like it, then you could go back at least. Or maybe cut it down in smaller increments like .5" or .25" at a time?
[/quote]

Yeah, thats probably good suggestions and I do have another shaft that is the nr 1 choice for the XHot. It´s so easy to change shafts so the 44" one is just for fun. Actually, now it´s cut! With a new Iomic 50g grips, total weight is 301g so the standard Callaway grip must have been really light. This mean sw is even lighter, but have not measured yet...

[Pigems]

[quote name='Mr Fade' timestamp='1389610193' post='8450941']
[quote name='Pigems' timestamp='1389574619' post='8449107']
[quote name='Mr Fade' timestamp='1389573081' post='8448953']
[quote name='Fourmyle of Ceres' timestamp='1389492696' post='8444129']
So what is the lightest (total weight, not swingweight) driver at 44" that anyone has ever used? I've never been able to get one under about 325g at 44" but in retrospect I should have given them a fair trial at C-something swingweight before mindlessly adding 6-8 grams of lead tape in search of the magic "D0" swingweight. Oh and I mean with a standard 50g grip.

Anyone managed to build one as light as 310-312g at 44" long? How did it play?

Guess the best starting point would be an under-50g ultralight shaft.
[/quote]

Well, my XHot is exactly 300g at 46". I´m cutting it down tomorrow to 44". I guess it will end up at about 290-295g (?) and swing weight to about C0 or something like that. Difficult to say because the head is very light (186g) but the sleeve attached to the shaft could (should?) be regarded as head weight when installed in the head. According to most posts this driver will end up unplayable… but I have found lighter sw to be underrated!
[/quote]

46"-44" is 2", isn't that an awful lot to cut off at once? Maybe you should buy a spare shaft and cut it down in case you don't like it, then you could go back at least. Or maybe cut it down in smaller increments like .5" or .25" at a time?
[/quote]

Yeah, thats probably good suggestions and I do have another shaft that is the nr 1 choice for the XHot. It´s so easy to change shafts so the 44" one is just for fun. Actually, now it´s cut! With a new Iomic 50g grips, total weight is 301g so the standard Callaway grip must have been really light. This mean sw is even lighter, but have not measured yet...
[/quote]

I did find the stock Cally grip Very thin myself. But im curious to know how you make out, Ill be cutting my Octane down soon as well.

[That Bob Guy]

[quote name='Pigems' timestamp='1389580601' post='8449699']
[quote name='Kadin 25' timestamp='1389579564' post='8449623']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1389577963' post='8449449']
[quote name='Kadin 25' timestamp='1389572434' post='8448897']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1389568832' post='8448583']
[quote name='Kadin 25' timestamp='1389564838' post='8448201']
If you are going to opt to trim a driver down rather than getting one built to spec (if you have the means I recommend you give it a try, you won't be disappointed)

Just a thought on cutting down an existing driver...

When cutting down an existing driver, is this matter of what swingweight do you go for when you cut down a club. Some try to duplicate the swingweight they had at the longer length. That often times makes the headweight "feel" to be too heavy, especially if they cut 1" or more off the existing driver. So when cutting an inch or more, a nice rule of thumb is to experiment with a swingweight that is lower than what you had before at the longer length and take it from there to hunt for that point where you can feel the head enough during the swing but not too much.

I see time and time again players who chop an inch off their driver and adjust the swing weight back to the original spec and often more times than not, they are not happy with the out come.

So keep in mind... going lower or just experiment until you get the "feel" right, don't get too caught up in numbers.

Hope that helps a little....Kadin
[/quote]

Don't know enough about making the SW adjustment, which is one of the reason's I've been hesitant to cut down my existing driver (besides what I've already articulated). Gripping down seems to be the easiest solution, though maybe not the most efficient.
[/quote]Sean you don't have to know anything about swing weight. Just add some lead tape, take a few swings and repeat this process until you can "feel" the head on the driver through the swing. To be honest you don't have to know what the actual swing weight is, that's just a reference point for when you are building.

Just go out and tinker until it feels good.
[/quote]

Where do you put the lead tape, Kadin?
[/quote]Anywhere on the sole of the club will work just fine. Chances are you won't be adding enough to truly effect ball flight anyway.
[/quote]

How much would I take to start to get into a draw bias(in grams)? And where would you want to put it?
[/quote]
I believe TW said 20 grams.

[Pigems]

Thanks you, I must have misses that part

[That Bob Guy]

[quote name='Pigems' timestamp='1389614870' post='8451073']
Thanks you, I must have misses that part
[/quote]
Oops! ...placed towards the heel. Stabilizes the heel, while letting the toe turn over. I believe that's how it's explained.

[Kadin 25]

[quote name='That Bob Guy' timestamp='1389617308' post='8451161']
[quote name='Pigems' timestamp='1389614870' post='8451073']
Thanks you, I must have misses that part
[/quote]
Oops! ...placed towards the heel. Stabilizes the heel, while letting the toe turn over. I believe that's how it's explained.
[/quote]Placement of lead tape will not change ball flight unless you have around 24 grams of it.

With that said...

As far as feel goes, placing the tape closer to the heel MAY help you turn the club head over easier and placing the tape out towards the toe MAY help you from turning the head too early.

The added weight can help your "swing" when it comes to releasing the club head. So...

Heel...Draw
Toe...Fade

[Pigems]

Thanks very much, I can't wait to start tinkering. Do most golf stores carry lead tape? Or just go to hardware store?

[Kadin 25]

[quote name='Pigems' timestamp='1389619654' post='8451285']
Thanks very much, I can't wait to start tinkering. Do most golf stores carry lead tape? Or just go to hardware store?
[/quote]Just about every golf shop sells it.

[Stuart_G]

[quote name='Kadin 25' timestamp='1389619831' post='8451293']
[quote name='Pigems' timestamp='1389619654' post='8451285']
Thanks very much, I can't wait to start tinkering. Do most golf stores carry lead tape? Or just go to hardware store?
[/quote]Just about every golf shop sells it.
[/quote]

But not every store might have what you want. I'd recommend staying away from things like this:

http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12798943&camp=CSE:GooglePLA:12798943:12579394:GOLFACCESSORIES-&gsidynamic=GooglePLA-_-GOLFACCESSORIES-_-GOLFACCESSORIES-_-SKU-12579394

You want something like this for working with the driver (note the 'high density designation):
http://www.golfworks.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_HDLT

[Kadin 25]

[quote name='Stuart G.' timestamp='1389621641' post='8451447']
[quote name='Kadin 25' timestamp='1389619831' post='8451293']
[quote name='Pigems' timestamp='1389619654' post='8451285']
Thanks very much, I can't wait to start tinkering. Do most golf stores carry lead tape? Or just go to hardware store?
[/quote]Just about every golf shop sells it.
[/quote]

But not every store might have what you want. I'd recommend staying away from things like this:

http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12798943&camp=CSE:GooglePLA:12798943:12579394:GOLFACCESSORIES-&gsidynamic=GooglePLA-_-GOLFACCESSORIES-_-GOLFACCESSORIES-_-SKU-12579394

You want something like this for working with the driver (note the 'high density designation):
http://www.golfworks.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_HDLT
[/quote]Good point Stuart! Make sure you get the "roll" kind.

[Stuart_G]

[quote name='Kadin 25' timestamp='1389623620' post='8451603']
[quote name='Stuart G.' timestamp='1389621641' post='8451447']
[quote name='Kadin 25' timestamp='1389619831' post='8451293']
[quote name='Pigems' timestamp='1389619654' post='8451285']
Thanks very much, I can't wait to start tinkering. Do most golf stores carry lead tape? Or just go to hardware store?
[/quote]Just about every golf shop sells it.
[/quote]

But not every store might have what you want. I'd recommend staying away from things like this:

[url="http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12798943&camp=CSE:GooglePLA:12798943:12579394:GOLFACCESSORIES-&gsidynamic=GooglePLA-_-GOLFACCESSORIES-_-GOLFACCESSORIES-_-SKU-12579394"]http://www.dicksspor...-_-SKU-12579394[/url]

You want something like this for working with the driver (note the 'high density designation):
[url="http://www.golfworks.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_HDLT"]http://www.golfworks...asp_Q_pn_E_HDLT[/url]
[/quote]Good point Stuart! Make sure you get the "roll" kind.
[/quote]

No point in letting people repeat mistakes I've made in the past :-)

[Atrayn]

I just tip trimmed my 44.5" Matrix Black Tie an inch and I took out the 2g and added a 12g weight in the head with the 13 that came stock. It's a D9 right now and I love the results.

[Pigems]

Thank you guys so much, I really appreciate the help. I have started a thread of this is the tech section if anyone is interested. Its gotten quite interesting already and insightful. Thanks again to everyone for all your help

[TomWishon]

[quote name='square' timestamp='1389485681' post='8443525']
You keep asking for it, and with the hope you might learn something, I will continue to reply, for now , anyway.

#1 in the pursuit of distance claims branded OEM's took a path to longer shafts and larger heads.Sadly, the point of diminishing returns (44.5" finished length and roughly 375CC head size) was passed about 10 years ago. The 45" plus length shafts require a unique swing,which in itself is not an issue .However, a player needs to transition his swing from the extra long shaft to the rest of the clubs within the bag, and therein lies the problem. Understanding the diminishing returns of too large a head size is simply a matter of good sense. Too large means too bulky and bulky is never the best fit for good swings.

#2 I can't think of a single successful consumer product which was born from some "test marketing focus group" or "poll results" of any kind. Through the sixties and seventies Karsten Solheim
used his own thoughtful design ideas to create revolutionary, better performing products. And in the early 90's Callaway did the same thing, producing a game changing driver.. No customers asked for these products. It's not the customers job to know what he wants. That is backwards. It is the suppliers job to design and create innovative , great functioning products which the customers never knew they wanted but come to realize they must have.

Tom Wishon, you have a recognizable name within the industry and seem passionate about selling your fit story. My suggestion is to stop thinking about '"focus groups", "consumer polls", "industry meeting panels" , "what people are asking for" , or any of that other stuff. Instead, use your knowledge to create sensible products which best match your fit story. Hope this helps.

[/quote]

I keep asking for it???

#1 - I agree totally that the move of the OEMs to increase driver length from 43-46 over the past 30 yrs is very bad for most golfers. I agree totally that the main reason they have done this is to create more demand on the basis of marketing for more distance. Shoot, I have been writing critically about that for a very long time and offering the scientific proof why it is. If you think you're the one pioneering that criticism, get in line behind the rest of us who have been pounding that point across to golfers for a long time. But get it clear - head size has nothing to do with this. I explained the reasons for the evolution for head size in my last post to your comments.

#2 - If you are running a major golf company and the marketing guys come up to you asking for your OK to spend $10 mill the next year on ads for the R&D dept's next model, I darn well hope you contact the sales guys and get everyone to sit down and do everything you can to determine if the consumers are going to be receptive to whatever that new model is going to be before you sign off on spending big time money to go promote it. And just how are you going to determine if a new model can generate the demand to make the sales you need your company to book for the next year? Your company has to go ask a lot of golfers what they think. There isn't a major product launch in ANY industry that isn't done without a good bit of consumer research because of the money involved and the potential risk to the company.

And finally, regarding your suggestion for me to use my knowledge to create sensible products - now I know for sure you have never done any research before making such a statement.

Let's make a little list of what all the current OEM companies' are marketing in their golf club technology today as their own original design technology . . . . .

1. Adjustable hosel devices to change lie, face angle, loft - that was a technology I had the pleasure of first conceiving and creating in 1995 for Golfsmith in a set of woods called the AHT (for Adjustable Hosel Technology) . The OEMS didn't do their versions until 2011.

2. High COR fairway woods - In 2004 my company first hit the COR maximum in a fwy wood in a model called the 515GRT. The OEMs did not figure out how to do that until 2010.

3. High COR irons - In 2000 I designed a set of irons for Golfsmith with the name Snake Eyes Fire Forged 2000 which were the first high COR iron ever created. The OEMs didn't get around to figuring that out for several years later.

4. High COR hybrids - I had the pleasure of designing the first high COR hybrids in the game in 2005 with a model for my company called the 785HF - and it was not just your usual long iron replacement hybrids for all golfers but a full set of hybrids with high COR all the way to the PW so less skilled players could benefit too. I think it was around 2010 that the OEMs figured out how to increase the COR of a hybrid.

5. Draw Bias/Fade Bias Weighted Drivers - Had the real pleasure of doing the first heel weighted driver head for a draw bias with the late and very great Elmore Just of Louisville Golf in a laminated maple head back in 1987. Then I had the kick of doing that in a metal wood driver for the first time in a model called AccuCore50 for Golfsmith in 1995. Took a while after that for the OEMs to come up with their first versions of a heel or toe weighted driver head for creating more draw or fade capability.

6. MIlled Face Wedges - you can go all the way back to 1988 and find a design I did for Dynacraft called the CNC 1000 which was a full iron set in which not just the wedges' faces were milled for the first time ever for more spin, but all the irons in the set had milled faces for more spin too.

That's just a few of the design firsts that I have had the fun and pleasure of figuring out before any other golf company did their version. So Square, I have been there and been doing just what you suggest and thought you would like to know that. And in case you don't believe me, here is a link that lists most of these design firsts so you can continue to learn yourself - [url="http://wishongolf.com/technology/design-firsts/"]http://wishongolf.co...esign-firsts/ [/url]

in the end though, well beyond the design firsts, I really have had the fun of being the first person to really figure out how golf clubs do and do not perform for different golf swing characteristics - and then sharing every bit of what I learn in my books and on forums like this. So the next time you want to label someone as not using their knowledge to create sensible products which best match their story - think a little more first before you make such a statement.

TOM

[Pigems]

Tom, YOU sir, are THE MAN!

[TomWishon]

[quote name='Fourmyle of Ceres' timestamp='1389502284' post='8445039']
PeanutsDaddy,

Thanks. That's about the lowest total weight I've tried. My lightest was 324g total with similar shaft and head weight distribution although I think my swingweight was more like D1 or something.

Probably the only realistic option to get well under 320g would be a similar setup with swingweight at C7, C8 or something like that. If you took an 8g weight out of the clubhead you'd have 315g at maybe C9-ish.
[/quote]

Fourmyle, it is possible to get the total weight under 300g with a driver and still have a relatively "normal" swingweight/headweight feel. A 55g raw weight shaft when trimmed for installation in a driver to a playing length of 44" will be around 50g in cut weight. Put that with a 37g grip (light grips of std size are available in rubber and synthetic materials) and a 205g headweight and you have a total weight of around 290g with a swingweight of D0.

So it's possible these days to break the 300 g barrier in driver total weight.

TOM

[Ri_Redneck]

[quote name='funkmuffin' timestamp='1389572773' post='8448925']
Last year I took my stock R1 down to 44.75 and saw my driving accuracy and consistency improve drastically, then bought a TP shaft that plays at 44.5 and saw an additional improvement.

Never saw any loss of distance. In fact, I've hit some of my longest drives ever with this club.

Don't think I'll ever play a driver over 44.5 ever again.

Now to figure out how to add enough weight to the head of Amp Cell + I picked up a month or so back - it's also 44.5 but I don't think the swing weight was ever adjusted... Not a fan of lead tape all over my driver heads.
[/quote]

On most Cobra drivers, there is a plugged hole on the sole of the club (usually near the heel) where weight can be added. The plug will have to be drilled out and then replugged with a plastic shaft tip plug or similar. I re-weight my heads with Polyfill (available at Walmart for a few dollars a bag). I weight out the amount that I want to add and then work it through he hole with a small screwdriver. The other option is hot melt if you have a pro nearby that can do it.

BT