Who is going to build a shorter driver based on Wishon article?

[Pigems]

This has been by far one of the most informative Driver threads I've ever read

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

So what is the lightest (total weight, not swingweight) driver at 44" that anyone has ever used? I've never been able to get one under about 325g at 44" but in retrospect I should have given them a fair trial at C-something swingweight before mindlessly adding 6-8 grams of lead tape in search of the magic "D0" swingweight. Oh and I mean with a standard 50g grip.

Anyone managed to build one as light as 310-312g at 44" long? How did it play?

Guess the best starting point would be an under-50g ultralight shaft.

[GolfMonster09]

Fourmyle - wish I could help, but my Covert Tour weighs in at a hefty 390g... No clue about the swingweight, but I hit it dead solid 90% of the time and it's in the short grass more often than not. 44" with the head at 215g.

[FAIRWAYFOUND!]

I've built 2 44 inch drivers in the last week. The first one was a try at an MOI monster from an idea I got from one of Tom Wison's posts a week or so ago about going with a light shaft, at least a 50 gram grip and building up the head's perimeter weighting with lead tape. I have a tour issue TM SF 282 long hosel that I was playing at 45" with a tour issue PX 6A4 which I loved. I also had a tour issue PX6A9 that is 6 grams lighter at 63 grams and has an extra stiff tip instead of the tip stiff shaft of the 6A4. Went with a Lamkin crossline cord grip and had it put together. Tom's recommendation was to go with a 50 gram shaft but the 63 gram was as light as I had and I thought that going with the stiffer tipped 6A9 would help with the heavier head. I'm not sure what the MOI of the TP version of the SF 1.0 was but I read that the regular one had an MOI of 5000. I put approximately 16 grams of lead tape all around the edges of the sole and actually had to take a strip off as it felt too heavy initially. If this one started out at 5000 MOI it should be at around 5500 as it sits per Tom's post. I soon found out that I don't even need the added MOI as every strike on the range was dead center and my swing speed was at 108 for most shots which I'll gladly take with the shorter shaft. All shots were high and penetrating and feel is amazing and sound is like hitting balls with the head cover on which I love.

Today I had the second one put together. This one is with a heaver shaft that I've had sitting around and brand new. Just got an Adams Speedline Fast 12 for close to nothing and put a Matrix 8m2 strong flex in it. I put 4 cotton balls in it to get it to D4 SW like the SF and get it to sound better. Not an MOI monster and haven't hit it yet but I'm hoping it's very low spin and this one is adjustable so I should be able to tune the launch to my liking by going up or down a degree.

[dwboston]

I went to 44.5" on my 910 D2 last year with great results. Much more consistent center face contact and no distance loss. No SW issues either as I added a 12g weight in the head.

[PeanutsDaddy]

[quote name='Fourmyle of Ceres' timestamp='1389492696' post='8444129']
So what is the lightest (total weight, not swingweight) driver at 44" that anyone has ever used? I've never been able to get one under about 325g at 44" but in retrospect I should have given them a fair trial at C-something swingweight before mindlessly adding 6-8 grams of lead tape in search of the magic "D0" swingweight. Oh and I mean with a standard 50g grip.

Anyone managed to build one as light as 310-312g at 44" long? How did it play?

Guess the best starting point would be an under-50g ultralight shaft.
[/quote]

Fourmyle,

For a portion of the summer I attempted to carry a 280 gram driver. I built a 44.5" 80 gram shaft (Axe SL shaft (R flex), Burner Superfast grip, and TM R11s adapter) and combined it with an R11s head that weighed in at 202 grams (with the stock 1 and 10 gram weights installed). At the time I didn't own a swingweight scale, but I knew that the swingweight was off as I would lose the head during the swing. I couldn't make consistent contact with the set-up. It was 10 yards short of my norm, and I could work it both ways (hook and slice).

I've since added a grip that is 27 grams heavier, installed a 55 gram shaft at 44", and have added 12 and 8 gram weights to the head. The swingweight is at D3 and it feels absolutely perfect in my hands. Total weight currently - 323 grams (112 gram shaft and 211 gram head).

I don't know if this is at all informative.

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

PeanutsDaddy,

Thanks. That's about the lowest total weight I've tried. My lightest was 324g total with similar shaft and head weight distribution although I think my swingweight was more like D1 or something.

Probably the only realistic option to get well under 320g would be a similar setup with swingweight at C7, C8 or something like that. If you took an 8g weight out of the clubhead you'd have 315g at maybe C9-ish.

[Golfrnut]

[quote name='Fourmyle of Ceres' timestamp='1389492696' post='8444129']
So what is the lightest (total weight, not swingweight) driver at 44" that anyone has ever used? I've never been able to get one under about 325g at 44" but in retrospect I should have given them a fair trial at C-something swingweight before mindlessly adding 6-8 grams of lead tape in search of the magic "D0" swingweight. Oh and I mean with a standard 50g grip.

Anyone managed to build one as light as 310-312g at 44" long? How did it play?

Guess the best starting point would be an under-50g ultralight shaft.
[/quote]

I don't know if it was even linked or spoke about already in this thread(didn't read the entire thing), but Cleveland did ultralite drivers a few years ago.

[url="http://www.golf.com/equipment/cleveland-launcher-ultralite-xl-270-ultralite-sl-290-and-ultralite-tl-310-drivers"]http://www.golf.com/equipment/cleveland-launcher-ultralite-xl-270-ultralite-sl-290-and-ultralite-tl-310-drivers[/url]

[square]

At 44" I tried a 60 gram shaft, head weights ranging from 205 to 215 grams, 52 gram grip. When swung the driver felt out of balance, much too head heavy feeling.
Next, still at 44" I tried an 80 gram shaft, 52 gram grip, and a range of head weights 210 to 225 grams. The best performing head weight for me was 217 grams, making a total club weight of 350 grams.

[quote name='Fourmyle of Ceres' timestamp='1389492696' post='8444129']
So what is the lightest (total weight, not swingweight) driver at 44" that anyone has ever used? I've never been able to get one under about 325g at 44" but in retrospect I should have given them a fair trial at C-something swingweight before mindlessly adding 6-8 grams of lead tape in search of the magic "D0" swingweight. Oh and I mean with a standard 50g grip.

Anyone managed to build one as light as 310-312g at 44" long? How did it play?

Guess the best starting point would be an under-50g ultralight shaft.
[/quote]

[PeanutsDaddy]

[quote name='Golfrnut' timestamp='1389502618' post='8445073']
[quote name='Fourmyle of Ceres' timestamp='1389492696' post='8444129']
So what is the lightest (total weight, not swingweight) driver at 44" that anyone has ever used? I've never been able to get one under about 325g at 44" but in retrospect I should have given them a fair trial at C-something swingweight before mindlessly adding 6-8 grams of lead tape in search of the magic "D0" swingweight. Oh and I mean with a standard 50g grip.

Anyone managed to build one as light as 310-312g at 44" long? How did it play?

Guess the best starting point would be an under-50g ultralight shaft.
[/quote]

I don't know if it was even linked or spoke about already in this thread(didn't read the entire thing), but Cleveland did ultralite drivers a few years ago.

[url="http://www.golf.com/equipment/cleveland-launcher-ultralite-xl-270-ultralite-sl-290-and-ultralite-tl-310-drivers"]http://www.golf.com/...-tl-310-drivers[/url]
[/quote]

Essentially this was what I was trying to emulate with my initial build but I didn't like the overall feel of the 280 gram set-up. Obviously subjective, but I feel best served between 315 - 330 with a swingweight between C9 - D4. I've tried lots of combinations to achieve the right feel and believe that I am close right now.

[square]

The Cleveland Ultra Lights and Super Lights were all produced at 45.25" to 46" plus finished length. They are nicely balanced , good performing drivers for sure. The downside is that grooving a swing for one of the extra long drivers means that (for the other clubs within the bag) a significant swing adjustment is needed.
One of the major benefits to playing 43" to 44" drivers is that the transition ( to the other clubs in the bag) is relatively easy.

[quote name='Golfrnut' timestamp='1389502618' post='8445073']

I don't know if it was even linked or spoke about already in this thread(didn't read the entire thing), but Cleveland did ultralite drivers a few years ago.

[url="http://www.golf.com/equipment/cleveland-launcher-ultralite-xl-270-ultralite-sl-290-and-ultralite-tl-310-drivers"]http://www.golf.com/...-tl-310-drivers[/url]
[/quote]

[Golf64]

I have always said that you don't need a driver longer than 45''. I'd rather have control over distance. Look at the pros. Most have between 44-45'' drivers. But today, seems the OEMs want distance. Funny, most drivers out there I hit them all the same distance? Just sayin'

[Arafel]

[quote name='square' timestamp='1389485681' post='8443525']
You keep asking for it, and with the hope you might learn something, I will continue to reply, for now , anyway.

#1 in the pursuit of distance claims branded OEM's took a path to longer shafts and larger heads.Sadly, the point of diminishing returns (44.5" finished length and roughly 375CC head size) was passed about 10 years ago. The 45" plus length shafts require a unique swing,which in itself is not an issue .However, a player needs to transition his swing from the extra long shaft to the rest of the clubs within the bag, and therein lies the problem. Understanding the diminishing returns of too large a head size is simply a matter of good sense. Too large means too bulky and bulky is never the best fit for good swings.

#2 I can't think of a single successful consumer product which was born from some "test marketing focus group" or "poll results" of any kind. Through the sixties and seventies Karsten Solheim
used his own thoughtful design ideas to create revolutionary, better performing products. And in the early 90's Callaway did the same thing, producing a game changing driver.. No customers asked for these products. It's not the customers job to know what he wants. That is backwards. It is the suppliers job to design and create innovative , great functioning products which the customers never knew they wanted but come to realize they must have.

Tom Wishon, you have a recognizable name within the industry and seem passionate about selling your fit story. My suggestion is to stop thinking about '"focus groups", "consumer polls", "industry meeting panels" , "what people are asking for" , or any of that other stuff. Instead, use your knowledge to create sensible products which best match your fit story. Hope this helps.

[quote name='TomWishon' timestamp='1389463914' post='8441781']
#1: It is not true that designers created larger volume driver heads with the expectation that they would be played with longer playing lengths. The quest in the 90s to keep making larger and larger volume driver heads was triggered by, a) the knowledge that bigger driver heads meant a higher MOI which meant more off center hit forgiveness; b) bigger head volume brought with it a bigger face area, which also made it a whole lot easier to get the COR to the USGA limit without having to use more expensive beta titanium alloys. This meant max COR drivers could be manufactured for less cost, which meant more profit to the companies. c) And yes, the other motivation was the fact that every company on the planet knew that the marketing claim of "bigger is better" was a VERY easy point to cement in to consumers' minds so as to keep driving consumers to buy the next larger size driver head.

How do I know this other than the fact that as a designer I lived and worked in this era? Back in the 90s, I was a member of the old Golf Digest Technical Advisory Panel. This panel was made up of either the head of product development or one of the key product development people within all the major golf equipment companies. GD got all of us together a couple of times a year to discuss equipment trends so the GD editors could know more about golf equipment to plan their articles. These above points came out repeatedly in discussions among all of us on the Panel.

So no, the push to keep designing larger size driver heads had nothing to do with length. Not at all.

#2: I completely respect your opinion that you and several other golfers prefer smaller size heads, or prefer smaller size heads with shorter driver lengths. I certainly can see how you and some other golfers may feel that way, and that is totally fine. No opposition from me on that. All I can add to that is the simple fact that the day the golf companies start to hear a majority of the golfers in their marketing focus groups indicate a desire for smaller driver heads is the day you will see smaller driver heads come on the market to sell to golfers. Thus far, that hasn't happened. Believe me, these companies do NOT embark in any new direction for production design unless their polling and study of golfer opinions tells them that the golfers will be receptive to the new design direction. So the fact you still see 430-460cc drivers almost exclusively these days tells you that the golfers who want smaller driver heads are still in the minority by far.

#3: You may feel this way based on your experience, and that again is totally fine, and wonderful that you may have discovered you can swing better with a smaller driver head on the end of the shaft. If so it is a psychological origin, and of course that is superb if you have discovered this about your own swing and manner of play. But from a pure research standpoint I can tell you that there is absolutely no type of technical relationship between golfer swing consistency or golfer swing timing and driver head size. Between golfer swing consistency or golfer swing timing and driver LENGTH - yes for sure that relationship most definitely exists for sure and can be explained and proven from a scientific basis.

TOM
[/quote]
[/quote]

Square, you have incredibly pitiful reading comprehension.




.

[backtees]

The longer the shafts got over the year the more I gripped it down. When they exceeded 46'' I shortend the shaft and play them at 44.5''.
I can control the driver at this lenght and still get the speed I look for.

[Kadin 25]

If you are going to opt to trim a driver down rather than getting one built to spec (if you have the means I recommend you give it a try, you won't be disappointed)

Just a thought on cutting down an existing driver...

When cutting down an existing driver, is this matter of what swingweight do you go for when you cut down a club. Some try to duplicate the swingweight they had at the longer length. That often times makes the headweight "feel" to be too heavy, especially if they cut 1” or more off the existing driver. So when cutting an inch or more, a nice rule of thumb is to experiment with a swingweight that is lower than what you had before at the longer length and take it from there to hunt for that point where you can feel the head enough during the swing but not too much.

I see time and time again players who chop an inch off their driver and adjust the swing weight back to the original spec and often more times than not, they are not happy with the out come.

So keep in mind... going lower or just experiment until you get the "feel" right, don't get too caught up in numbers.

Hope that helps a little....Kadin

[sixtysevensixtyseven]

I switched from 45" to 44.75" in my driver last year and it made a ton of difference. I did, however, adjust the swingweight to keep it at D2. I am thinking of trying a heavier shaft and a playing length of 44" this spring but we'll see.

[dlygrisse]

Went from 45.75 to 45" last year and I think I am actually hitting it farther. 45" seems to be perfect for me, which is probably still longer than Wishon recommends on his chart but hey it works for me.

[Sean2]

[quote name='Kadin 25' timestamp='1389564838' post='8448201']
If you are going to opt to trim a driver down rather than getting one built to spec (if you have the means I recommend you give it a try, you won't be disappointed)

Just a thought on cutting down an existing driver...

When cutting down an existing driver, is this matter of what swingweight do you go for when you cut down a club. Some try to duplicate the swingweight they had at the longer length. That often times makes the headweight "feel" to be too heavy, especially if they cut 1" or more off the existing driver. So when cutting an inch or more, a nice rule of thumb is to experiment with a swingweight that is lower than what you had before at the longer length and take it from there to hunt for that point where you can feel the head enough during the swing but not too much.

I see time and time again players who chop an inch off their driver and adjust the swing weight back to the original spec and often more times than not, they are not happy with the out come.

So keep in mind... going lower or just experiment until you get the "feel" right, don't get too caught up in numbers.

Hope that helps a little....Kadin
[/quote]

Don't know enough about making the SW adjustment, which is one of the reason's I've been hesitant to cut down my existing driver (besides what I've already articulated). Gripping down seems to be the easiest solution, though maybe not the most efficient.

[Cwing]

Good stuff here. Thinking about cutting my k15 down as it does battle with a g25.

[mgcfc]

So if I'm cutting down a Driver say from 45.5" to say 44" what is the best way of getting swing weight back up to a suitable level:

1. adding lead tape to the head
2. heavier shaft
3. lighter grip
4. combination of the above

[Kadin 25]

[quote name='mgcfc' timestamp='1389571510' post='8448799']
So if I'm cutting down a Driver say from 45.5" to say 44" what is the best way of getting swing weight back up to a suitable level:

1. adding lead tape to the head
2. heavier shaft
3. lighter grip
4. combination of the above
[/quote]If adding lead tape brings it back to a suitable "feel" then that's all that is needed. If that doesn't do it then I would try a grip change with changing shafts as the last option.

[Colej]

[quote name='mgcfc' timestamp='1389571510' post='8448799']
So if I'm cutting down a Driver say from 45.5" to say 44" what is the best way of getting swing weight back up to a suitable level:

1. adding lead tape to the head
2. heavier shaft
3. lighter grip
4. combination of the above
[/quote]

Personally I think a combination of 1 and 2 is the best method. Swingweight changes at the grip end are hard to feel/pickup. I think lighter grips are really good for doing one thing. Making the total weight lighter.

[Kadin 25]

[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1389568832' post='8448583']
[quote name='Kadin 25' timestamp='1389564838' post='8448201']
If you are going to opt to trim a driver down rather than getting one built to spec (if you have the means I recommend you give it a try, you won't be disappointed)

Just a thought on cutting down an existing driver...

When cutting down an existing driver, is this matter of what swingweight do you go for when you cut down a club. Some try to duplicate the swingweight they had at the longer length. That often times makes the headweight "feel" to be too heavy, especially if they cut 1" or more off the existing driver. So when cutting an inch or more, a nice rule of thumb is to experiment with a swingweight that is lower than what you had before at the longer length and take it from there to hunt for that point where you can feel the head enough during the swing but not too much.

I see time and time again players who chop an inch off their driver and adjust the swing weight back to the original spec and often more times than not, they are not happy with the out come.

So keep in mind... going lower or just experiment until you get the "feel" right, don't get too caught up in numbers.

Hope that helps a little....Kadin
[/quote]

Don't know enough about making the SW adjustment, which is one of the reason's I've been hesitant to cut down my existing driver (besides what I've already articulated). Gripping down seems to be the easiest solution, though maybe not the most efficient.
[/quote]Sean you don't have to know anything about swing weight. Just add some lead tape, take a few swings and repeat this process until you can "feel" the head on the driver through the swing. To be honest you don't have to know what the actual swing weight is, that's just a reference point for when you are building.

Just go out and tinker until it feels good.

[funkmuffin]

Last year I took my stock R1 down to 44.75 and saw my driving accuracy and consistency improve drastically, then bought a TP shaft that plays at 44.5 and saw an additional improvement.

Never saw any loss of distance. In fact, I've hit some of my longest drives ever with this club.

Don't think I'll ever play a driver over 44.5 ever again.

Now to figure out how to add enough weight to the head of Amp Cell + I picked up a month or so back - it's also 44.5 but I don't think the swing weight was ever adjusted... Not a fan of lead tape all over my driver heads.

[Mr Fade]

[quote name='Fourmyle of Ceres' timestamp='1389492696' post='8444129']
So what is the lightest (total weight, not swingweight) driver at 44" that anyone has ever used? I've never been able to get one under about 325g at 44" but in retrospect I should have given them a fair trial at C-something swingweight before mindlessly adding 6-8 grams of lead tape in search of the magic "D0" swingweight. Oh and I mean with a standard 50g grip.

Anyone managed to build one as light as 310-312g at 44" long? How did it play?

Guess the best starting point would be an under-50g ultralight shaft.
[/quote]

Well, my XHot is exactly 300g at 46". I´m cutting it down tomorrow to 44". I guess it will end up at about 290-295g (?) and swing weight to about C0 or something like that. Difficult to say because the head is very light (186g) but the sleeve attached to the shaft could (should?) be regarded as head weight when installed in the head. According to most posts this driver will end up unplayable… but I have found lighter sw to be underrated!

[Chef Otto]

[quote name='Fourmyle of Ceres' timestamp='1389492696' post='8444129']
So what is the lightest (total weight, not swingweight) driver at 44" that anyone has ever used? I've never been able to get one under about 325g at 44" but in retrospect I should have given them a fair trial at C-something swingweight before mindlessly adding 6-8 grams of lead tape in search of the magic "D0" swingweight. Oh and I mean with a standard 50g grip.

Anyone managed to build one as light as 310-312g at 44" long? How did it play?

Guess the best starting point would be an under-50g ultralight shaft.
[/quote]
So I played this set up last summer. It was not the longest driver I have hit but man it was the most accurate and still plenty long. I know you asked with a standard grip and when I had it with a 50g grip it was heavier 25-30g and had a SW in the c8-c9 range. I personally liked the lighter weight but still think anything in the 330 range is light.
8.5* head
UST VTS 85 stiff playing at 44"
24g Winn Lite V17 grip
Static weight 309g
D 3.5 swing weight

I just ordered a i25 9.5* driver today and have a new UST VTS 75s silver that I will use at 44" going to see what I can do to get my sw in the d2-4 range and use a 50-55 gram grip as the Winn v17 is not my favorite. Probably have to add a tip weight. I also have a Fubuki that I used in the g25 at 45" it is the tour alpha 63 so quite a bit lighter then the UST I had a standard grip on this and a d4 sw. I am going to cut this down to 44" also and see how it plays.

[Pigems]

[quote name='Mr Fade' timestamp='1389573081' post='8448953']
[quote name='Fourmyle of Ceres' timestamp='1389492696' post='8444129']
So what is the lightest (total weight, not swingweight) driver at 44" that anyone has ever used? I've never been able to get one under about 325g at 44" but in retrospect I should have given them a fair trial at C-something swingweight before mindlessly adding 6-8 grams of lead tape in search of the magic "D0" swingweight. Oh and I mean with a standard 50g grip.

Anyone managed to build one as light as 310-312g at 44" long? How did it play?

Guess the best starting point would be an under-50g ultralight shaft.
[/quote]

Well, my XHot is exactly 300g at 46". I´m cutting it down tomorrow to 44". I guess it will end up at about 290-295g (?) and swing weight to about C0 or something like that. Difficult to say because the head is very light (186g) but the sleeve attached to the shaft could (should?) be regarded as head weight when installed in the head. According to most posts this driver will end up unplayable… but I have found lighter sw to be underrated!
[/quote]

46"-44" is 2", isn't that an awful lot to cut off at once? Maybe you should buy a spare shaft and cut it down in case you don't like it, then you could go back at least. Or maybe cut it down in smaller increments like .5" or .25" at a time?

[deck]

[quote name='Arafel' timestamp='1389541323' post='8446335']
[quote name='square' timestamp='1389485681' post='8443525']
You keep asking for it, and with the hope you might learn something, I will continue to reply, for now , anyway.

#1 in the pursuit of distance claims branded OEM's took a path to longer shafts and larger heads.Sadly, the point of diminishing returns (44.5" finished length and roughly 375CC head size) was passed about 10 years ago. The 45" plus length shafts require a unique swing,which in itself is not an issue .However, a player needs to transition his swing from the extra long shaft to the rest of the clubs within the bag, and therein lies the problem. Understanding the diminishing returns of too large a head size is simply a matter of good sense. Too large means too bulky and bulky is never the best fit for good swings.

#2 I can't think of a single successful consumer product which was born from some "test marketing focus group" or "poll results" of any kind. Through the sixties and seventies Karsten Solheim
used his own thoughtful design ideas to create revolutionary, better performing products. And in the early 90's Callaway did the same thing, producing a game changing driver.. No customers asked for these products. It's not the customers job to know what he wants. That is backwards. It is the suppliers job to design and create innovative , great functioning products which the customers never knew they wanted but come to realize they must have.

Tom Wishon, you have a recognizable name within the industry and seem passionate about selling your fit story. My suggestion is to stop thinking about '"focus groups", "consumer polls", "industry meeting panels" , "what people are asking for" , or any of that other stuff. Instead, use your knowledge to create sensible products which best match your fit story. Hope this helps.

[quote name='TomWishon' timestamp='1389463914' post='8441781']
#1: It is not true that designers created larger volume driver heads with the expectation that they would be played with longer playing lengths. The quest in the 90s to keep making larger and larger volume driver heads was triggered by, a) the knowledge that bigger driver heads meant a higher MOI which meant more off center hit forgiveness; b) bigger head volume brought with it a bigger face area, which also made it a whole lot easier to get the COR to the USGA limit without having to use more expensive beta titanium alloys. This meant max COR drivers could be manufactured for less cost, which meant more profit to the companies. c) And yes, the other motivation was the fact that every company on the planet knew that the marketing claim of "bigger is better" was a VERY easy point to cement in to consumers' minds so as to keep driving consumers to buy the next larger size driver head.

How do I know this other than the fact that as a designer I lived and worked in this era? Back in the 90s, I was a member of the old Golf Digest Technical Advisory Panel. This panel was made up of either the head of product development or one of the key product development people within all the major golf equipment companies. GD got all of us together a couple of times a year to discuss equipment trends so the GD editors could know more about golf equipment to plan their articles. These above points came out repeatedly in discussions among all of us on the Panel.

So no, the push to keep designing larger size driver heads had nothing to do with length. Not at all.

#2: I completely respect your opinion that you and several other golfers prefer smaller size heads, or prefer smaller size heads with shorter driver lengths. I certainly can see how you and some other golfers may feel that way, and that is totally fine. No opposition from me on that. All I can add to that is the simple fact that the day the golf companies start to hear a majority of the golfers in their marketing focus groups indicate a desire for smaller driver heads is the day you will see smaller driver heads come on the market to sell to golfers. Thus far, that hasn't happened. Believe me, these companies do NOT embark in any new direction for production design unless their polling and study of golfer opinions tells them that the golfers will be receptive to the new design direction. So the fact you still see 430-460cc drivers almost exclusively these days tells you that the golfers who want smaller driver heads are still in the minority by far.

#3: You may feel this way based on your experience, and that again is totally fine, and wonderful that you may have discovered you can swing better with a smaller driver head on the end of the shaft. If so it is a psychological origin, and of course that is superb if you have discovered this about your own swing and manner of play. But from a pure research standpoint I can tell you that there is absolutely no type of technical relationship between golfer swing consistency or golfer swing timing and driver head size. Between golfer swing consistency or golfer swing timing and driver LENGTH - yes for sure that relationship most definitely exists for sure and can be explained and proven from a scientific basis.

TOM
[/quote]
[/quote]

Square, you have incredibly pitiful reading comprehension.




.
[/quote]

He also states his opinions as facts. When they are in fact, opinions.

[Sean2]

[quote name='Kadin 25' timestamp='1389572434' post='8448897']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1389568832' post='8448583']
[quote name='Kadin 25' timestamp='1389564838' post='8448201']
If you are going to opt to trim a driver down rather than getting one built to spec (if you have the means I recommend you give it a try, you won't be disappointed)

Just a thought on cutting down an existing driver...

When cutting down an existing driver, is this matter of what swingweight do you go for when you cut down a club. Some try to duplicate the swingweight they had at the longer length. That often times makes the headweight "feel" to be too heavy, especially if they cut 1" or more off the existing driver. So when cutting an inch or more, a nice rule of thumb is to experiment with a swingweight that is lower than what you had before at the longer length and take it from there to hunt for that point where you can feel the head enough during the swing but not too much.

I see time and time again players who chop an inch off their driver and adjust the swing weight back to the original spec and often more times than not, they are not happy with the out come.

So keep in mind... going lower or just experiment until you get the "feel" right, don't get too caught up in numbers.

Hope that helps a little....Kadin
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Don't know enough about making the SW adjustment, which is one of the reason's I've been hesitant to cut down my existing driver (besides what I've already articulated). Gripping down seems to be the easiest solution, though maybe not the most efficient.
[/quote]Sean you don't have to know anything about swing weight. Just add some lead tape, take a few swings and repeat this process until you can "feel" the head on the driver through the swing. To be honest you don't have to know what the actual swing weight is, that's just a reference point for when you are building.

Just go out and tinker until it feels good.
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Where do you put the lead tape, Kadin?

[farmer]

I must be an outlier, I've done two drivers and saw no difference in 45 1/2 to 44.