What would you shoot today if you played clubs from the '60's

[bullrambler]

[quote name='golfdude300' timestamp='1389504033' post='8445207']
Golf is a lot easier today with the new equipment and modern ball!

According to Luke Donald, the biggest change is the ball.

Luke Donald tees it up with vintage clubs

[url="http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/luke-donald-tees-it-vintage-clubs"]http://www.golf.com/...t-vintage-clubs[/url]
[/quote]

Thank for posting the link. Luke was definitely out of his element and an older golfer should have been used along with younger one. All vintage clubs, and new clubs have to be set-up for the golfer who is using them. This would make a fairer comparison. IMHO the article has a bend to it, and it appears as though it's intent is to steer golfers away from older vintage iron sets towards buying the newest, latest and greatest.

Sure one can hit a newer driver farther, but since the days of Calvin Pete - nobody on the PG seems to hit driver consistently - down the pipe for a decade at a time. .

[NRJyzr]

[quote name='bullrambler' timestamp='1406642728' post='9808995']
[quote name='golfdude300' timestamp='1389504033' post='8445207']
Golf is a lot easier today with the new equipment and modern ball!

According to Luke Donald, the biggest change is the ball.

Luke Donald tees it up with vintage clubs

[url="http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/luke-donald-tees-it-vintage-clubs"]http://www.golf.com/...t-vintage-clubs[/url]
[/quote]

Thank for posting the link. Luke was definitely out of his element and an older golfer should have been used along with younger one. All vintage clubs, and new clubs have to be set-up for the golfer who is using them. This would make a fairer comparison. IMHO the article has a bend to it, and it appears as though it's intent is to steer golfers away from older vintage iron sets towards buying the newest, latest and greatest.

Sure one can hit a newer driver farther, but since the days of Calvin Pete - nobody on the PG seems to hit driver consistently - down the pipe for a decade at a time. .
[/quote]

I may be repeating myself from earlier in the thread, but oh well.

"Tests" like this are essentially useless, especially with relatiion to how the old golf balls perform with respect to the new balls. Wound golf balls degrade with age significantly more than do modern, solid core golf balls. Any wound ball will have lost considerable distance over the last ten years.

It's not unlike testing a wiffle ball bat vs an aluminum bat.

[David81]

I think the biggest difference now is access to top level tuition on the Internet ... probably would have given up by now without it.

[ephmen]

Golf courses are much harder now then back in the 60's as well.

[adh2k1]

I don't know the exact answer but I would say about 6 strokes more. I somewhat recently used to play a set of Walter Hagen blades and Ping wood woods. I think the only thing that was less than 10 years old was my driver which was a Big Bertha of some variation. I shot usually in the low 80s-high 70s. My putter was new now that I think about it. I think there should be some tournaments that make you use rental or old equipment. I would play in that especially if it was scramble format.

[Donno]

Bump 8 months later....I did play in a tourney where nothing could be newer than 1980. We played the whites (6800 yards) to mimic shorter older courses. Guess how many guys dragged out original Ping Eye's? It was like an Ping Eye petting zoo. Other than adjusting distance for weaker lofts, most of the players with the Eye's did quite well, and in some cases hit as good, or better for some shots than with the current irons. Some guys have since began playing their old Eye's and Eye 2's again. The Hagen/Hogan/MacGregor blade players struggled a little more on long iron shots, but from 170 and in they hit a lot of really good shots too, and REALLY liked the feel of those clubs from 100 and in.

The woods were tougher, especially the drivers, but not miserable. Some had persimmons like Powerbuilts and Hogans which sounded cool off the tee, A lot of guys hit the 4 and 5 woods pretty good, and most tended to leave their woods right, maybe because of the lack of offset? Overall, the final tally of low net was compared to last seasons outing with "normal clubs" and amazingly enough, the overall average net was plus 2 strokes. Keep in mind the prior year was from the blue tees. Some guys mentioned that the clubs made them concentrate more and not take anything for granted. It was a blast.

[bladehunter]

haven't read the whole thread..but to answer the lead question..... I think my scores at least on my home course wouldn't change... provided the irons were fitted to me shaft and grip wise... they don't have to be modern but need to be Stiff or better , my length and SW and a grip built up to fit my hands... ive played several rounds at my home course with 1-pw 1984 titleist tour models x100 , no woods and a bullseye and shot low 70s.... its not really that big of a change...just have to have the open mind to do it... Its actually more fun in my opinion.. Tech has leveled the playing field for some and that makes all players feel the need to use modern equipment in competition to keep up or stay ahead.

[HighlandLaird]

I have played golf for 60+ years and think the greatest change over the years has been the ball, not the clubs. If I were 20 years old again, I think I would find very little difference in my scores whatever vintage clubs I used, excepting hickory shafts of course! There has been very little improvement in clubs for better players over the years, but peripheral weighted irons and monster headed drivers have made the game much easier for hackers-----nonetheless, statistically there is no difference in the handicaps of amateurs when comparing the 60s with now.
At my age (73), I find I can still play any of my old 50s and 60s irons just as well as any modern ones, but I drive much better with a 460 cc driver than my old MacGregor "keyhole" persimmons, but even with the large titanium headed drivers, I use a short, 44" graphite shaft as this means I hit the 'sweet spot' MUCH more often than with longer shafts, and in consequence average greater distance. Current long shafts of 45" and 46" lead to mis-hits. The average length of driver shaft on the PGA tour is 44.5"----if the pros don't feel they can consistently hit longer shafts, why do amateurs?
Most of the so-called "improvements" in golf equipment, other than balls, are sales gimmicks to part us from our cash!

[pheenomz4774]

[quote name='Donno' timestamp='1389495313' post='8444409']
Just curious as to what people think they would shoot today using irons, woods and putters from the 1960's vs the best and greatest clubs from today?
[/quote]

Myself. In the face.

I'm not really that interested in the nostalgia of old technology. I look forward to the next steps in technology because they make the game more fun on all levels. The game is still a difficult enough challenge for the weekenders who get to play twice a month and hit the range one more time after that.

[Donno]

[quote name='HighlandLaird' timestamp='1424095543' post='10962609']
I have played golf for 60+ years and think the greatest change over the years has been the ball, not the clubs. If I were 20 years old again, I think I would find very little difference in my scores whatever vintage clubs I used, excepting hickory shafts of course! There has been very little improvement in clubs for better players over the years, but peripheral weighted irons and monster headed drivers have made the game much easier for hackers-----nonetheless, statistically there is no difference in the handicaps of amateurs when comparing the 60s with now.
At my age (73), I find I can still play any of my old 50s and 60s irons just as well as any modern ones, but I drive much better with a 460 cc driver than my old MacGregor "keyhole" persimmons, but even with the large titanium headed drivers, I use a short, 44" graphite shaft as this means I hit the 'sweet spot' MUCH more often than with longer shafts, and in consequence average greater distance. Current long shafts of 45" and 46" lead to mis-hits. The average length of driver shaft on the PGA tour is 44.5"----if the pros don't feel they can consistently hit longer shafts, why do amateurs?
Most of the so-called "improvements" in golf equipment, other than balls, are sales gimmicks to part us from our cash!
[/quote]

Well stated. I think the incremental lengthening of irons and drivers is for the sole purpose of providing often enough for him/her several unexpectedly "great" shots.. Blades and forged cavities look ultra-serious. Plus, with the segmentation of club types such as Players, GI, SGI, SuperSGI, people categorize themselves into the sector that attend to their mindset. Some high HCPs like to look at and play blades, some low HCPs like SGIs. Never know. Those intently focused upon perfection of swing are less distracted with new stuff. For me, I like new stuff and practice and play with "old stuff" also to keep my interest. I actually carry a Ping Eye 2 nine iron from time to time for shots that I feel more nervous about hitting. Imagine, an 80's club being the go-to club! Plus, they stick the ball to the green like lawn darts.

[Marand]

[quote name='HighlandLaird' timestamp='1424095543' post='10962609']
I have played golf for 60+ years and think the greatest change over the years has been the ball, not the clubs. If I were 20 years old again, I think I would find very little difference in my scores whatever vintage clubs I used, excepting hickory shafts of course! There has been very little improvement in clubs for better players over the years, but peripheral weighted irons and monster headed drivers have made the game much easier for hackers-----nonetheless, statistically there is no difference in the handicaps of amateurs when comparing the 60s with now.
At my age (73), I find I can still play any of my old 50s and 60s irons just as well as any modern ones, but I drive much better with a 460 cc driver than my old MacGregor "keyhole" persimmons, but even with the large titanium headed drivers, I use a short, 44" graphite shaft as this means I hit the 'sweet spot' MUCH more often than with longer shafts, and in consequence average greater distance. Current long shafts of 45" and 46" lead to mis-hits. The average length of driver shaft on the PGA tour is 44.5"----if the pros don't feel they can consistently hit longer shafts, why do amateurs?
Most of the so-called "improvements" in golf equipment, other than balls, are sales gimmicks to part us from our cash!
[/quote]

Yes, I'm 73 too. I love my current set, but in truth I'd be equally happy, and play every bit as well, with my old set of 1969 Haig Ultras. I do think my current driver is much easier to keep in the fairway than my old MacGregor persimmons. In the end though, I agree, the ball is the biggest difference. I do wish I had that 20 mph of swing speed back.

[dunn]

After a few months to adjust prolly pretty close to what I shoot today.....it doesn't make as big a difference as lot o people think it does

Gamed 30 plus sets of irons, numerous wedges, putters, woods and balls last few years and didn't change a thing....so kind of did my own lil test in a way....it really doesn't make much difference

95% mental/swing and 5% or less equipment = your score

[super20dan]

ping eye2 didnt come out till 1983 so those guys better have been playing the plain eye which i dont imagine many actually still own

[Pulley]

[quote name='Forged4ever' timestamp='1389546456' post='8446737']
Our club hosts an annual 18-hole Inter-Club "Vintage" club tournament that draws about 35-40 players, including Class-A apprentices(asst. Pros). There is no cap stipulation, though it's a scratch medal tourney, so the majority of players are sub-5 caps. I've played for the nineteen of the twenty years they've had it, missing this year due to medical issues.

I've been fortunate to have won it twice, with scores of 70 & 70(-1). The lowest winning score that I recall is 67(-4). We play the blues(6856 yds) and play it as it played pre-1981, par 71. We now play the blacks at 6974 with a par of 70 from the blacks, 71 from the rest. Our club co-hosted the 2003 US Mens Amateur, so it's a decent "eastern" track. The rules for clubs are pre-1981, largely because this was the general release year for the Staff Fg 17s(which I play), considered by many as one of the top 3-5 blades ever designed. Also, balata balls, though this is for the health of the woods vs. any real competitive advantage. Most of us would start hittin balls a few weeks before and I know that I'd play 2-3 pre-tourney rounds. I spent 80% of my time at the short game practice area hittin 8i and up. For me, that was the key. LMAO, cuz some things never change. For me, that's still the key.

In 2012, my last year playing, I had a 75, with two three putts, lol. The winning score in '12 was 69(-2) and this past fall, even par 71, as it was a damp, crappy fall day, lol.

I'll never forget a few years ago when a couple of young(early-mid 20's), lol, kids played. One had a gorgeous Penna 403 PT, that I'm guessing he borrowed from his father, lol. Well, he switched to a Pro V somewhere on the front and cracked the face, toe side of the insert. Ya gotta love youth, lol.

I play the 17's('81) & the Staff Dynapower(1971), which I prefer and played from 1971-75(not these), a Penna TP driver, Powerbuilt Citation 3, 4 & 5w, Staff wedges & THE 8802 putter, with the putter pictured being the putter that I received on my 16th BD(1976), and I've bagged regularly on and off ever since, the last time being in 2011.

A few of us did a rough computation of our hdcps based on a minimum of 10 appearances, and mine came out to a 4, though back in the mid-late 80s, when I reached +1, I played basically the same clubs cept the irons were Mizzy TP-9s then the 87s, which were really a beveled version of the 17s, in my opinion.

Anyway, it's a lotta fun, and gives you an idea, especially the younger members, of what it was like for the majority of this great game's history for the majority of players, and also, LMAO, it'll tell ya what kinda swing that you have.

And yea, all the woods have been refinished, the Penna in the late 90s and the Citations, early 2002-03. I only bring this stuff out once a year.

Well, Have a Great week!

Fairways & Greens My Friends

[/quote]
LMAO Great post, lol. Just kidding, lol. This may be a record form the most lol in any one post. Seriously that is good information.

[Donno]

[quote name='Pulley' timestamp='1424380829' post='10987055']
[quote name='Forged4ever' timestamp='1389546456' post='8446737']
Our club hosts an annual 18-hole Inter-Club "Vintage" club tournament that draws about 35-40 players, including Class-A apprentices(asst. Pros). There is no cap stipulation, though it's a scratch medal tourney, so the majority of players are sub-5 caps. I've played for the nineteen of the twenty years they've had it, missing this year due to medical issues.

I've been fortunate to have won it twice, with scores of 70 & 70(-1). The lowest winning score that I recall is 67(-4). We play the blues(6856 yds) and play it as it played pre-1981, par 71. We now play the blacks at 6974 with a par of 70 from the blacks, 71 from the rest. Our club co-hosted the 2003 US Mens Amateur, so it's a decent "eastern" track. The rules for clubs are pre-1981, largely because this was the general release year for the Staff Fg 17s(which I play), considered by many as one of the top 3-5 blades ever designed. Also, balata balls, though this is for the health of the woods vs. any real competitive advantage. Most of us would start hittin balls a few weeks before and I know that I'd play 2-3 pre-tourney rounds. I spent 80% of my time at the short game practice area hittin 8i and up. For me, that was the key. LMAO, cuz some things never change. For me, that's still the key.

In 2012, my last year playing, I had a 75, with two three putts, lol. The winning score in '12 was 69(-2) and this past fall, even par 71, as it was a damp, crappy fall day, lol.

I'll never forget a few years ago when a couple of young(early-mid 20's), lol, kids played. One had a gorgeous Penna 403 PT, that I'm guessing he borrowed from his father, lol. Well, he switched to a Pro V somewhere on the front and cracked the face, toe side of the insert. Ya gotta love youth, lol.

I play the 17's('81) & the Staff Dynapower(1971), which I prefer and played from 1971-75(not these), a Penna TP driver, Powerbuilt Citation 3, 4 & 5w, Staff wedges & THE 8802 putter, with the putter pictured being the putter that I received on my 16th BD(1976), and I've bagged regularly on and off ever since, the last time being in 2011.

A few of us did a rough computation of our hdcps based on a minimum of 10 appearances, and mine came out to a 4, though back in the mid-late 80s, when I reached +1, I played basically the same clubs cept the irons were Mizzy TP-9s then the 87s, which were really a beveled version of the 17s, in my opinion.

Anyway, it's a lotta fun, and gives you an idea, especially the younger members, of what it was like for the majority of this great game's history for the majority of players, and also, LMAO, it'll tell ya what kinda swing that you have.

And yea, all the woods have been refinished, the Penna in the late 90s and the Citations, early 2002-03. I only bring this stuff out once a year.

Well, Have a Great week!

Fairways & Greens My Friends

[/quote]
LMAO Great post, lol. Just kidding, lol. This may be a record form the most lol in any one post. Seriously that is good information.
[/quote]

I have recently thought about writing a screenplay entitled "50 Shades of Blades" where the players have OPs play disgusting blades and belittle them during the round.

[Donno]

[quote name='super20dan' timestamp='1424353650' post='10984141']
ping eye2 didnt come out till 1983 so those guys better have been playing the plain eye which i dont imagine many actually still own
[/quote]

Correct, they were the Eye's like I mentioned. You'd be surprised how many older gents have a set of these. They absolutely WON'T sell them!

[Guia]

I would estimate 7 shots higher. The driver would be the big difference, irons I would have to go up a club.

[johnstitch]

I used Persimmon with steel shafts, smalled headed laminated fairway woods, small forged blades and nothing more than a 55 wedge in the 80s and could shoot 71 or better. A couple of seasons back I brought out my Dad's old FG17s while waiting for a new set to arrive. Feel was awesome, about 1 full club shorter but biggest issue was the narrow soles, almost negative bounce and the grips were very thin (pre Gold type TT Dynamic) shafts. The feel was stunning btw.

[Donno]

Playing with 60s clubs would possibly have a strange mental "benefit" of the player reducing expectations for a great shot, and alternately, actually playing more loosely without the expectations from their current "best" set. I know I have tried another players club and hit it perfect. I think it's because I didn't expect a great shot, so my brain got "out of the way" if you will. Then I buy the exact same set and the same old problems reoccur. Other than that the "sting" of an off-center hit on the first approach shot may introduce the feel of fighting the clubs for the rest of the round. Given the old drivers were about 3 inches shorter they would play "more like" today's 3/4 wood. I don't know other's opinions, but I think the blades of the 60's were far less forgiving than blades made in the mid-80's and into the 90's. If the requirement was to play any blade, or nothing newer than a 60's club, then I think the scores would not change much at all.

[golf9596]

With the same tees and balls, I would shoot about the same as today. I was a 3-4 in the 60's and a 4 now…..I will say that Tony Penna driver was a beast to hit straight. I do enjoy the point and shoot drivers of today.

[Donno]

[quote name='golf9596' timestamp='1424569661' post='11001055']
With the same tees and balls, I would shoot about the same as today. I was a 3-4 in the 60's and a 4 now…..I will say that Tony Penna driver was a beast to hit straight. I do enjoy the point and shoot drivers of today.
[/quote]

Toney Penna drivers...that's a blast from the past! I remember in about 1974 or 1975, my friend who played on our high school golf team as #2 man behind Rick Smith (whom most of you know) had a club maker install a graphite shaft on a Penna persimmon driver head. It was very cool, and the first graphite shafted driver I ever saw or hit. It really did feel different and everyone thought the shaft wouldn't last long (break) and it would never be a mainstream configuration (steel ruled). Boy, were we wrong!

[deetsal]

[quote name='pheenomz4774' timestamp='1424096277' post='10962667']
[quote name='Donno' timestamp='1389495313' post='8444409']
Just curious as to what people think they would shoot today using irons, woods and putters from the 1960's vs the best and greatest clubs from today?
[/quote]

Myself. In the face.

I'm not really that interested in the nostalgia of old technology. I look forward to the next steps in technology because they make the game more fun on all levels. The game is still a difficult enough challenge for the weekenders who get to play twice a month and hit the range one more time after that.
[/quote]You can never compare the feel of an old blade with a balata ball on the sweet spot. Of course with those small blades it was far and few that were nutted there, but oh man for the few it was worth it.

[Donno]

Yeah, those old 50's and 60's blades required perfection. Seems like the 70's blades were a slight transition to "easier to hit", and the 80's/90's blades had much less "bite", or far more accommodating than the old irons. Today's blades are even more forgiving. My MP69s are pretty easy going on mishits. As stated above, 60's blades were either perfect feeling or awful on bad shots. Just add in a 45 degree day with a little snow on the ground and mishit an old blade. OW!

[derek08844]

65.

Honey moon period, right?

[Joe9977]

[quote name='solarbear88' timestamp='1389969742' post='8477339']
[quote name='Donno' timestamp='1389924353' post='8475115']
Interesting that most responses lean towards moderate to little difference. Kinds corroborates with studies that suggest indexes have not changed much for 20+ years. Balls to farther, but courses are longer, so everything equalizes.
[/quote]

Well in the past a lot of blokes simply quit. The game was unpleasant with the gear they had. So on today's handicap roster you have a ton more hackers simply bringing the average down. Not to mention how long and well bunkered many courses are today.
[/quote]

Lots of people quit today as well. They spend a ton of $$ on "expert" fittings, spend $999 on a set of irons, then go out and stink just as bad as they did with their set of old irons they bought off the used rack when they first started playing.

[Joe9977]

[quote name='ephmen' timestamp='1406650004' post='9809849']
Golf courses are much harder now then back in the 60's as well.
[/quote]

What about courses that were made in the 60's and previous to that? They are the same as today. Many guys can't break 90 at my home course build during the great depression. Give them the most modern fitting experience with all the crap launch monitors and a set of irons selling for $1,099, and they still wouldn't break 90. Give them a set of blades from 1960 and they would probably focus on their swing more and score better...just my thoughts...

[playa]

[quote name='rwl' timestamp='1389496967' post='8444583']
Can let you know in a wk; have 20 guys playing vintage gear on 5800 yd course. A knowledgeable friend thinks there's going to be a lot off guys struggling to break 100. Biggest problem looks to be drivers; hard to get modern balls airborne w/ persimmon. Should be fun & I'll let you know......RWL
[/quote]
Drivers without doubt biggest difference between nkw and then. I remember even in the early 80s it was a badge of honour to hit driver. I didn't have a driver jn my early sets, it was just too difficult to hit. Most guys hit 3w off the tee or a 2w, which seemed lime a high lofted driver. Even when metal drivers came out like the TM it was still too hard to hit for most guys. It wasn't til the original Big Bertha that the driver was realistically accessible to the masses. Before that it was really only low single digit guys whk played driver.

[Joe9977]

Johnny Miller used woods made in 1941 and irons made in 1945 when he shot a 63 in the final round of the 1963 U.S. Open in 1973. It's not the clubs, it is the golfer. Give a golfer today all the launch monitor fitting garbage and a set of irons selling for $1,099 and he will be no better than last year, even if he was using blades from 1960. A golfer still has to hit the ball, keep it in play, then chip and hit those short putts. Look at Adam Scott using all these new putters. Useless. He should ignore the technology and just go get a Ping Anser and move on...
I will say, shaft flex, length, and a nice, new grip does wonders. I have a vintage set of Wilson blades w/ newer S300's and new grips, I hit them dead straight, better than the S-56's as well!!!!
Good luck, and may this snow melt up here in New England!!!

[Joe9977]

[quote name='playa' timestamp='1426981514' post='11188129']
[quote name='rwl' timestamp='1389496967' post='8444583']
Can let you know in a wk; have 20 guys playing vintage gear on 5800 yd course. A knowledgeable friend thinks there's going to be a lot off guys struggling to break 100. Biggest problem looks to be drivers; hard to get modern balls airborne w/ persimmon. Should be fun & I'll let you know......RWL
[/quote]
Drivers without doubt biggest difference between nkw and then. I remember even in the early 80s it was a badge of honour to hit driver. I didn't have a driver jn my early sets, it was just too difficult to hit. Most guys hit 3w off the tee or a 2w, which seemed lime a high lofted driver. Even when metal drivers came out like the TM it was still too hard to hit for most guys. It wasn't til the original Big Bertha that the driver was realistically accessible to the masses. Before that it was really only low single digit guys whk played driver.
[/quote]

Great point...modern drivers have a huge leg up, amazing to see some of the old timers at my club hit it off the tee...but to me, the rest if fluff. Blades from 1960 or modern irons, no difference, still gotta hit the ball and chip and putt...

[DTXgolfer12]

probly something around an 80. Maybe 3-4 shots worse than my avg. I don't care what you say - someone hitting today's drivers and then moving to a persimmon that's smaller than a modern 3 wood will hit a few wormburners.