4 full days in St. Andrews, help with a schedule

So, I'm planning a summer 2020 trip to St. Andrews for my 40th. I'll be in Scotland for 4 days of golf (landing early the morning of day 1, leaving on day 5, no time for golf), now I get the fun job of planning my golf. Good god, there are so many courses I want to play. I have no idea how I am going to leave without feeling like I totally missed some experiences. I'm going with my younger brother and maybe one or two others. I sort of sold this as a "wow, look how cheap a scotland golf trip could be" and now I'm trying to sort of stick to this plan. I know I could just do TOC, Kingsbarns, Carnoustie and probably leave happy but also a lot lighter in the pocket.

I was thinking of just doing the St. Andrews courses for the 4 days, play TOC and get the 3 day ticket, and be done with it. I am planning on playing 36 a day (If we have an all day ticket someplace, I'd love to try playing 54 in a day). Then I found out if I want to book TOC ahead of time, I need to buy a two course package, which makes my original plan a little less "frugal". I wonder what you would do if you had 4 days to plan 36 a day in and around St. andrews with 2 goals:

1. Don't break the bank (keep it under 800 GBP for the greens fees and earn a gold star)

2. Have me leave Scotland with as few regrets as possible.

How long is a piece of string? Loads of options, but I think your kiss strategy is spot on for 4 days.

Enter the advanced online application for tee times this coming August:

- if you get a tee time great, build your time trip around that, with the 3 day ticket + a splurge on Kingsbarns

- if you don't, pick the week that suits you best, get the 3 day ticket + a splurge round and enter the ballot each day and/or get up early/stay up late and queue at the Pavilion.

TOC + 4 Trust courses + Kingsbarns is a great way to introduce yourself to Scottish golf and since you're all young you've got many more years to return and sample the rest of the country. There are a bunch of other courses in Fife to play obviously - and folks will be along to name drop them - but don't let FOMO wind you up, for a first timer pretty much any choice along the coast is a good choice.

Kingsbarns over Carnousite?

800 quid for 4 days of golf is quite a budget...should be no problem.

The day you play TOC you may want to keep it to 18 and maybe play the Himalayas, take some time for the town etc. Call it £200

Be sure to play Elie. The day rate is probably about £100. Call it £125.

The New and Eden on the same. Call it £150.

That leaves £325 for a blowout day. Unfortunately, I wouldn't be surprised if Kingsbarns charges more than that for 36. You can probably play Carnoustie Championship for £225. The Burnside next door is very good. I bet there is a deal to play both courses on the same day for well under £300....call it £275.

Thats six courses over four days for £750 plus the Himalayas.

If thats sounds too much, and in in all honesty, it does sound expensive to me, you could can Carnoustie and play Crail, Lundin or Leven twice. This would probably save you £150. There are two courses at Crail if you don't fancy a repeat game. Thats five/six courses over four days for £600.

You may also consider playing one of Crail, Lundin or Leven then play Anstruther, an unusual 9 holer which has a charm all its own. After golf pop into Anstruther Fish Bar for fish and chips. That is as fine a day of golf and eats as any golfer could hope for. If you have regrets with TOC, Elie, New, Eden, Crail and Anster...thats greedy!

The one and only Anster!

Ciao

I would do:

The Old Course, Muirfield, Carnoustie, Kingsbarns. KB does not get the respect it deserves

How many times are you going to go to St. Andrew's?

The NEW is solid and JUBILEE is pretty good after the first 6 holes

Great town, loved my time there in 2012

I kind of guilted my brother into coming (not really, but told him I was going no matter who came along). If I was going on my own, I'd be playing TOC, Carnousite, Kingsbarns, and trying to figure out how to get out on Muirfield as a single without a doubt, but I sold him on this being sort of an "inexpensive" trip with the old course as a mandatory because, well it's TOC.

Start looking into self-catering accommodations if you want to save money (and B&B's for comparison). Consider staying out of St. Andrews - if I was focusing on golf right there, I'd stay right there for sure, but the drives aren't far or bad from Anstruther, Crail, Lower Largo, etc. and you can get some nice digs on the sea for not a lot of money, plus the benefits of laundry and flexibility, but lots of self catering in St. Andrews as well and the ability to walk and not drive a bunch. Just depends on what you want in your "off hours" - the city vibe in St. Andrews would be hard to pass up I think for your group.

Crail Balcomie is an historic links course, won't break the bank, great walk IMO and good seaside feel and proximity, especially vs. the St. Andrews older courses. Anstruther has a nice 9 hole course for fun if you are looking to add a late evening round, for example. Wanted to play there, couldn't find the time, but did eat at the best fish and chips place there.

I only have experience with The Old Course, New Course and Crail in Fife - we were quite happy with those and we only had a few days there as well. Wanted to play Lundin Links but didn't work out - there's another good one out of St. Andrews.

You won't regret any choices, other bigger name courses are there - I hear Kingsbarns is stunning. Check the threads, ask questions, lots of them addressed on here. I think the only way you regret is if you build too many "must plays" into your mindset in a short trip. I'm not as young as I used to be and 36 a day isn't a big stretch by any means, but if you try to do too much and run yourselves ragged I'm not sure you will leave thinking as much of the experience as if you make some times to relax a bit as well and take some things in and enjoy the golf experience more. The Cathedral, Castle, golf museum, for example, all right there. Plenty to see walking about and getting a feel for the place and the people.

Yeah, I'm thinking about staying in Mcintosh hall right in St. Andrews if it is just my brother and I, 79 pounds a night for a room seems pretty low. If we end up with a foursome, I'll look into airbnb options a little more heavily.

> @gregkeller said:

> Kingsbarns over Carnousite?

Me personally? No.

But I'm trying to not be bias. While great plays, the St. Andrews Trust courses in town are not the prettiest and Kingsbarns as a resort course is set up with that in mind. I know from the six of us when we played 36 there, one had it as his fave of the trip and no one was disappointed with the day out - while well expensive. They also got a kick out of seeing it on TV once a year for the Dunhill links.

TBH, if you are looking for golfing 'value' it's not in Scotland, it's found South of the wall, so you might as well embrace what's there. That said 36 (Championship/Burnside) at Carnoustie would be a big savings over 36 at KB.

The brave go north of the wall!

If 800 is just green fees and you’re determined to spend all of it id do OC and Carnoustie(maybe 450 for both) plus the three day ticket (230) plus Elie..

Muifield or KB is going to annihilate the budget.

I’m doing the three day in July plus maybe Elie (since it’s so popular here). They were very helpful booking the 3 day but don’t dilly dally I’m sure it gets tricky to get times the longer you leave it

Might not be a bad place to start, especially the sections in the back for little known (to most of us here in the U.S.) courses. Enjoy the history, some of my favorite memories looking back were the journeys and people encountered when all was said and done although going -1 for the last three on the Old was right up there. The gorse maybe not so much.

OK guys let's keep in mind he has only 4 days and AFAIK doesn't have a helicopter. Plus he wants to have a foursome which for TOC is a problem unless he gets a tee time in advance reservations. The ballot will certainly not be a sure thing during high season. Let's assume you DON'T get the advance reservation. First put your name in the ballot 2 days ahead of you leaving for TOC. You will arrive the morning of Day 1 and get up to St. Andrews around 10 am let's say. Probably can't check into your hotel or accommodation yet, but you most probably will have an easy time getting on the New Course or Eden. Play that and have a nice trip for dinner and pub in town and you will most likely not be able to get much sleep because I have you going to TOC Pavillion at midnight - 1 am to get in line for TOC. This is your best chance to get on as a foursome (if any) or maybe 2 twosomes. You are going to have to get there by midnight or 1 am IMO. Day two is built around whenever you get out on TOC. Maybe you won the ballot and don't have to worry, but boom you knocked down the 1 course you definitely wanted to play.

Day 3 IMO would be Kingsbarns AM and Crail Balcomie PM

Day 4 Carnoustie AM, Castle or New/Eden PM

This way you hit the iconic 2 (TOC/Carnoustie) while also hitting Balcomie with some other St. Andrews favorites.

If you want to spare some money, visit the site [https://teeofftimes.co.uk/tee-times/search#qc=GeoLocation&q=st.+andre&sortby=Facilities.Weight.0&view=Course&date=Apr+02+2019&holes=3&radius=25&timemax=42&timemin=10&players=0&pricemax=10000&pricemin=0&hotdealsonly=false&longitude=-2.79902&latitude=56.33871](https://www.teeofftimes.co.uk/tee-times/search#qc=GeoLocation&q=st.+andre&sortby=Facilities.Weight.0&view=Course&date=Apr+02+2019&holes=3&radius=25&timemax=42&timemin=10&players=0&pricemax=10000&pricemin=0&hotdealsonly=false&longitude=-2.79902&latitude=56.33871 "https://teeofftimes.co.uk/tee-times/search#qc=GeoLocation&q=st.+andre&sortby=Facilities.Weight.0&view=Course&date=Apr+02+2019&holes=3&radius=25&timemax=42&timemin=10&players=0&pricemax=10000&pricemin=0&hotdealsonly=false&longitude=-2.79902&latitude=56.33871")

which gives you an idea of discount green fee for some good golf courses: for example, on day one you could play Leven Links (on the way to st. andrews) and you can find a lot of great courses as Torrance-Kittocks, Glen, Gullane, Monifieth, Panmure or Scotscraig.

Then check this site for your staying: [https://stayinstandrews.com/](https://www.stayinstandrews.com/ "https://stayinstandrews.com/") and find a B&B you like.

For the ballot, if you are 4 people, maybe you have more chance if you try 2 ballots with 2 guys in, of course, you won't play together but maybe you have a better chance that at least 2 of you will play.

I'd try to play TOC, Carnoustie but check even Gleneagles.

Other courses I liked are Jubilee, Elie, Lundin.

Have fun.

> @milesgiles said:

> If 800 is just green fees and you’re determined to spend all of it id do OC and Carnoustie(maybe 450 for both) plus the three day ticket (230) plus Elie..

>

> Muifield or KB is going to annihilate the budget.

>

> I’m doing the three day in July plus maybe Elie (since it’s so popular here). They were very helpful booking the 3 day but don’t dilly dally I’m sure it gets tricky to get times the longer you leave it

That is kind of what my original plan was. There is one problem (using 2019 prices), If i want an advanced tee time at TOC, which would give me peace of mind with a foursome, would cost 330 and force me to play another round at one of the other 6 courses, which stinks because I was gonna buy the 3 day ticket anyway, but now instead of that 3 day ticket costing 250, which seems like a steal, it's effectively 390. That's not a steal unless I'm only going to play the other 6 courses for the entirety of the trip and just play as many holes of golf as I can, and never leave the town of St. Andrews. If I was by myself, this would not be an issue. I'd just get the 3 day ticket (250), wait in line for TOC (190), play Elie on a day ticket (105) and Carnoustie (210). The day ticket at that price is great, and I'd just fill in St. Andrews courses when I could in my schedule, probably able to fit in New, Eden, Jubilee and Castle. If it ends up just being my brother and I, I will probably do this, but the idea of flying over there and not playing TOC with him is tough to stomach. If it's a foursome I want to have TOC more locked down if possible. Get a tee time and one other course (330), spend another day at Carnoustie (260 for championship and burnside), a day at Elie (105), and a day at Crail (125), ends up putting me at 820 in 2019 prices, which is a little over budget, considering I'd probably want caddies for TOC and Carnoustie, but hits a lot of the places I wanna hit, and gets as much golf in as I think I'd like to get.

Carnoustie over Kingsbarns every day, and you'll save yourself around 70-80 pounds.

I don't know which days of the week you're there but remember to keep in mind that the Old Course is closed on Sundays. The other courses are open but the Old functions as a public park that day, you can do just about anything on it except hit a golf club!

If you're looking to do 36 in a day Kingsbarns may be easier than Carnoustie because it's closer. It surprised me how long it was to drive from St. Andrew's to Carnoustie, whereas Kingsbarns is just down the coast. For what it's worth, my caddie at TOC told me Kingsbarns is her favorite she's ever played, and that she would play it everyday if she could. My playing partner said that only Royal Dornoch was better in his mind. Kingsbarns got rave reviews from everyone I talked to. However, Carnoustie is rated higher, costs less, hosts the Open, has a storied past, and is a magnificent challenge! I guess it's more of what you value more. Do you want to see the gorgeous views of Kingsbarns or do you want the brutal challenge and history at Carnoustie?

Also the Castle Course gets mixed reviews but I recommend wholeheartedly, just don't expect it to be the same as the Old or the New, it's very different than the other Links Trust courses. I hope you have a great time!

^ im playing the castle first straight off the flight, all I’ve heard is upturned saucer greens and no one likes it..

Carnoustie seems (relatively) a bargain and is the most likely on the rota that I will make the effort to play, watched two opens there it might be the fairest test of the lot..

I played Castle and liked it a lot. I understand that the greens were pretty severe when first opened, but they've been redone and are now more reasonable. They certainly have more contour than other course I played in Scotland, but I found them enjoyable, fair, and actually nice to have something different from the greens everywhere else which are pretty subtle in slope and contour. A nice thing about playing Castle right off your flight is that it has a decent driving range to warm up and shake the kinks out, something you won't find at almost any other Scottish course.

^good to know, I vaguely recall a reasonably well known reviewer giving the course a zero star review lol.

And no, the Scots don’t seem to believe in ranges or even warm up nets..when was their last major winner again?

I honestly love the Castle Course. It's tough, and three putts are very possible, but the views and bunkering are incredible. My theory on the Castle is that the Links Trust wanted to design a Kingsbarns-style course based off of how well it was doing just down the road. When they hired DMK to do it they likely wanted a championship golf course that could test the very best. In doing so they alienated a lot of casual golfers at first. They've flattened the greens at least four times since it opened in 2008, and they've changed tee boxes and other aspects as well. I think a lot of people have an issue with it because out of the seven courses, this one sticks out like a sore thumb design (and location)-wise. The others are so natural and close together, but the Castle is outside of town and was clearly man-made. That doesn't make it bad, but it does make it different. I feel like if a resort or other entity owned it people would like it more because they'd have different expectations. It's an incredible golf course, one that I hope to play again someday, but don't let other reviews or premonitions influence your experience!

A couple years ago when I visited Scotland I played 8 courses, focusing on rota and big names in case I never returned, and the Castle was the companion course I was assigned when I made my Old Course reservation. Out of all those rounds, I can honestly say that I remember more holes on Castle than pretty much any of the other courses (with Prestwick and Royal Dornoch being other ones I remember well). I concur that Kingsbarns may have been an inspiration, and it seems much of the criticism has focused on 1) the greens are too severe; and 2) it isn't like the other Links Trust courses. Well, they've improved the greens design, and I think it best they didn't try to make if feel like their other courses. I think they did a solid job with the piece of land, and really took advantage of the views. I wouldn't build a trip around just playing Castle, but I think it is a solid addition to any St. Andrews itinerary and a good companion option to TOC reservation.

So I think my plan is slowly starting to come together. Obviously with over a year to keep planning, I'll have lots of time to adjust. I think I'm going to pass up on an advanced tee time on TOC, put in for the ballot on every day we can play it, line up early if we don't make it via the ballot. Buy the three day ticket and book a tee time at either kingsbarns or carnousite (maybe both if I can talk my brother into spending the cash). If we do carnoustie based on this years prices it will be about 650 gpb. I want to try and play the New, Eden, Jubilee and Castle, with those plus TOC and Carnoustie we have room for maybe 2 more rounds, so we can always make a game time decision on something like a day ticket at Elie or Crail.

The only other thing I was thinking about doing was maybe playing North Berwick as our first round. We are flying into Edinburgh and thought maybe we could fly in, breakfast, Berwick, then off to St. Andrews and check into our hotel and go from there, Like I said, plenty of time to figure stuff out, and really I am just looking to soak in St. Andrews and learn what links golf is about. My ideal vacation is playing as much golf as I want during the day, have a few pints and a simple dinner and maybe hang in a pub until I'm ready to go to bed.

Don't know why you would't put in for advanced tee time and get that secured 100% if you can. I don't think there is anything you are wanting to do you can't organize come October if you don't get a guaranteed time.

> @Hawkeye77 said:

> Don't know why you would't put in for advanced tee time and get that secured 100% if you can. I don't think there is anything you are wanting to do you can't organize come October if you don't get a guaranteed time.

Trying to save 140 pounds. If i get an advanced time, i need to pay 330 for the old course and another trust course. I was already planning on buying a 3 day ticket, so now i'd be stuck paying 330 to play the old course instead of 190.

> @gregkeller said:

> > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > Don't know why you would't put in for advanced tee time and get that secured 100% if you can. I don't think there is anything you are wanting to do you can't organize come October if you don't get a guaranteed time.

>

> Trying to save 140 pounds. If i get an advanced time, i need to pay 330 for the old course and another trust course. I was already planning on buying a 3 day ticket, so now i'd be stuck paying 330 to play the old course instead of 190.

Swings and roundabouts really.

Select Carnoustie instead of Kingsbarns and you've just clawed that back. Don't buy that overpriced jumper in the clubhouse and you are 1/2 way there, etc...

You'll get on one way or the other sure, but for a such a short trip I wouldn't downplay the usefulness of having TOC sorted before you arrive to save a few quid.

That 3 day ticket if you buy when you get there is 220 GBP not 250 (2019 pricing). You are only there 4 days, the real value in that ticket is basically playing more than 54 holes, otherwise, depending on the course, you aren't saving all that much. In 4 days a guarantee on The Old, plus other Links Trust Course, and playing Carnoustie and Crail or some other courses in the area (you are already adding North Berwick when you get off the plane - it's not cheap, as part of the 4 day golfing) is a pretty full schedule. All depends on what various aspects are worth to you, not anyone else, but I can't imagine not waiting until you see if you score guaranteed times on The Old Course, before having dominos starting to tumble. Plenty of time. Otherwise, you may or may not start suffering some actual losses if you are canceling tee times or play because of when it works out to play the Old because of either the ballot or lining up. Oh well, it's fun to plan, but seems like this three day pass getting etched in stone is causing a lot more trouble in the planning stages than it is worth. Anyway, enjoy the process!

Mixing a "trip of a lifetime" with a budget is hard but not impossible. I've done six trips to Scotland with my seventh coming up in August. I plan to spend five days in St. Andrews and will not care if I don't get on the Old Course but then I've played there twice before. Several good points in this thread: the Old is closed Sunday so try to plan your trip to avoid that day, it's very possible to keep your budget below 800 pounds, and there are plenty of good courses in St. Andrews and the surrounding area. Given the length of your trip, I'd suggest venturing no farther away than Carnoustie to the north and maybe Muirfield to the south--beyond that, and you're driving too much and bypassing good golf to do it. And even with those limits, I'd argue you're driving too much for such a short trip. As you'll see below, I think you can do your whole trip without ever leaving St. Andrews.

I second the suggestion for student accommodations but recommend Agnes Blackadder Hall instead. It's a little further away but not much and well within walking distance of the center of town, there's excellent adjacent free parking (hard to find in most of St. Andrews), and its relative isolation means it's very quiet at night so that you can get an excellent rest without worrying about noise from the crowds at the pubs and bars. They do a cafeteria-style morning breakfast, there's a coin-operated laundry on site, and there's even a small pub off the entry lobby if you want a nightcap just before heading up to your room and sleep. Agnes Blackadder is also a much newer facility so you're spared the "quirkiness" that you might find in the older student accommodations.

I am assuming you're renting a car. If you or anyone in your group can drive a manual transmission, that'll keep the cost down as automatic rentals are generally steeper. Be careful that you don't rent too small a car. Although you can now rent full-size SUVs in Scotland, their cars are still generally smaller than ours, and some of the rental cars may be too small to hold two people and their luggage including golf clubs. A buddy of mine joined me for a golf trip to Ireland last fall and a decent-sized crossover still barely held our stuff. If you end up with four people, you'll need an even bigger vehicle.

Maybe the way to keep the cost down for your brother is for you to register as a single with the starter and try to walk on the Old Course while your brother plays another of the courses. If you've bought the three-day ticket and want to play each day of the ticket with him, send him over to the Eden Course. Yeah, it ranks behind the Old, New, Jubilee, and Castle, but I'll bet he enjoys it. For 50 pounds, It has some of the quirks of the Old--the fifth and the eighth are par 3s that are next to each other and a first timer may find himself playing the fifth to the eighth green if he doesn't pay attention to the scorecard, the course runs down to the Eden Estuary, and some of the fairways seem generously wide--but is more of a straightforward layout. The Eden also has its own clubhouse and is easily reached by a shuttle bus the Links Trust operates. By the way, if you choose this option, your brother's four days of golf are now covered at no more than 270 pounds or if he wants to do the Old Course with you, do the daily ballot since you need two golfers minimum for that and have him walk on with you if the ballot doesn't succeed. Under those circumstances, he still pays less than 500 pounds for his golf with about 250 pounds for his accommodations.

I know my thoughts mean you won't play Kingsbarns or Carnoustie. Regrets--maybe. But you're not going to get to play Muirfield, North Berwick West, Royal Aberdeen, Prestwick, Royal Troon, Turnberry, Royal Dornoch, or Cruden Bay--each of which in its own way offers a great golf experience that I think matches either of those two courses. And as I've found over the course of my trips, there's a whole set of second and third-tier courses over there that would still constitute a pretty good and memorable golf trip.

Keep in mind that beyond golf, St. Andrews is a cool little town with tons of history, lots of great pubs and restaurants, especially in and around the first tee of the Old Course. Leave some down time for those activities too. And have a great time!

I understand the need to budget, but trying to do a Scotland trip in 4 days just seems baffling to me. Are you ever going again? If the answer is no, or not for quite a few years, then bloody do it right even if it means leaving the brother at home. I guarantee you the memories of KB, Muirfield, or North Berwick will far exceed the satisfaction of a few dollars saved.

> @gregkeller said:

> Kingsbarns over Carnousite?

I played both on my current trip... And without question I would play Kingsbarns over carnoustie. Outside of the history and emotion of the old course and the absolute perfection of North Berwick, KB has been my favorite. I am playing Royal Dornoch tomorrow, so I may change... But I would never consider going to St Andrews and not playing KB.